Sig's Breeds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sig's Breeds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sigma999
04-20-07, 11:39 PM I, Sig the Red, faun-devil sorcerer extraordinaire, have taken upon myself the task of categorizing the specialized breeding techniques of many worlds. Here for your enlightenment is my research from observation upon the future and glory of civilized worlds!

Unfortunately, in my travels I have also encountered those that object to the manipulation of so called 'lesser creatures' to achieve desired cultural niches. I have dealt with most of those of dissenting opinion for the sake of observing my research subjects just a bit longer, but eventually on every world the conflicts between "truebreeds" and "cultureds" became too dangerous and I was forced to move on.

Here, dear sentients, on these scrolls are blueprints for genesis of new life. I have seen entire worlds climb from squabbling 'races' into unified, civilized whole, and bring this gift to spread to your own homelands.

I have even begun to suspect that even I am a product of focused breeding, being an improbably mixture of both devil and fey, but I must seek further proof of my hypothesis. I wish not for the outcome to be that I am merely a 'halfbreed' but rather possessing a destiny of greatness and power.

Perhaps you, too, sentient, are part of this new age of specialized beings. We shall see...

BREED TEMPLATES (limit 1)
draft 4/20/07
(note: round down Level Adjustments to the nearest whole number, for those of you that haven't seen my d20 classless project I'll remind you that most feats are worth 2 {for skillbonus, metamagic, or noncombat} to 3 Character Points {most combat and 'improvement' feats} and you can use any 'CP leftovers' to add more feats)

Domesticated
LA +1/2

Domesticated creatures are the product of generations of anti-aggressive selective breeding, much like how dogs relate to wolves. They are social to a fault and ancestral coloration becomes spotted, blurred, and random. Also, mammals possess upright tails and "floppy ears" as well as a lessened ability to NOT express their feelings! All of these traits combine to produce the ultimate cultured creature, capable of thriving in regulated civilization, but have lost many of their ancient instincts. Their roles are diverse but shallow, generally meant to accompany more capable beings as a sidekick and companion and nothing more. In fact, many Domesticated creatures have difficulty regulating their own food supply...

~ CON+2 but STR/WIS-2,
~ Spot/Listen/Diplomacy/Sense Motive +2 but Hide/Bluff/Intim -2, Survival -10,
~ Base Movement -5,
~ Petite Build(CP-3): counts as 1 size smaller than normal for all advantageous situations (Hide+4,attack/AC+1)

Artisan
LA +1/2

Artisans are specialized producers in heavily civilized cultures. They are bred to become the lifeblood of a culture, interdependant not only with each other but upon the other breeds for food, shelter, and direction.

~ DEX/CHR+2 but STR/CON-2,
~ all Perform/Craft +3, Spot/Listen/UMD/Concentrate/Diplomacy/Sense Motive/GatherInfo +2,
~ Petite Build,
~ Base Movement -5,
~ Survival -10 when isolated from other Artisans for at least a day

Pleasure (Artisan-subtype, add after Artisan)
LA +0

Pleasure-Artisans, or just Pleasure breed, is a hyperfocused subtype of any Artisan breed. They are created for the single purpose of entertaining greater beings, and not much more. They have a knack for remembering minor details as well as bred for gracefulness but tend to be extremely delicate.

as Artisan but stack the following:
~ STR-2
~ all Perform +5
~ Craft -3 (for total templates result+0)
~ Base Movement -5
~ Knowledge (Local) +5
~ Sound Imitation (Fiend Folio p125, CP-2, mimick any sound last heard, Will save DC 16 to discover trick)

Soldier
LA +1/2

Soldier breeds are born for combat and are barely capable of anything else. They are good at what they do, though, which is pretty much just tearing the next target's throat out.

~ STR/CON+4 but DEX/INT/CHA-2
~ Spot/Listen/Search/Intimidate/Jump/Swim/Balance/Climb/Initiative +2 but Diplomacy/SenseM/Concentrate -4,
~ Powerful Build(CP-3),
~ NAC+1,
~ Bite or Slam attack 1d6
~ Base Movement +5,
~ Survival -10 unless given orders every day

Worker
LA +1/2

Workers labor under the direction of greater beings and know nothing beyond their tasks. Multiplying fast and requiring low-maintainance, they are easily expendable. They do best in groups under the supervision of an intelligent being but without direction they die quickly. Construction, shipment, deconstruction, excavation,

~ DEX+2,CON+4 but INT/WIS-4,
~ Spot/Listen/Search/Profession/Concentrate +2,
~ Carrying Load +50%,
~ Fire/Cold resist 5,
~ Will -2
~ Survival -10 when isolated for a day or more

Elite
LA +1

Elites are bred for individuality, leadership, and to guide their civilizations.

~ increase all Racial bonuses by 50% (round down),
~ remove Racial defect of up to 2 CP
~ add feats of up to a total of 6 CP

BREED COMBINING TEMPLATES (limit 1, applicable with or without a Breed Template, apply after all other templates and racial traits are accounted for)

Mongrel
LA +0

~ half all numeric Racial traits and round down to nearest even number for ability scores, then add the following:
~ Fort save vs. Disease +2,
~ add 2 or more additional [Bloodline] or [Heritage] feats for free
~ CON+2 (after previous mods)

Inbred
LA +0

~ increase all numeric Racial traits by 50% and round down to nearest even number for ability scores, then add the following:
~ Fort save vs. Disease -2
~ INT-2

Mule (usually sterile versions of unlikely crossbreeds)
LA +1/2

~ STR+2 and CON+2 but CHA-2; the Mule benefits from diverse blood covering some biological weaknesses but the "natural instinct" is a little off and the creature doesn't express all the normal behavioral patterns of its parents
~ Powerful Build (if stacked with a previous Powerful Build, make size Large and give +5 reach and Base Move +10),
~ Sterile (defect, CP+2, not all Mules have this)

don't mind the jumble, it's pretty much shorthand for common D&D skills, ability scores, etc. if you are familiar with D&D and d20 you can probably guess which abbreviation stands for what. it was meant for my viewing at first but instead I give you some samples and comments with these templates, enjoy

Domesticated Mongrel Goblin "Spotted Pet Goblin"
base str-2 dex+2 cha-2 small dv 60 MoveS/Ride +4
apply con+2 str-2 wis-2 with petite build and str-2
subtotal str -6 dex+2 con+2 wis-2 cha-2
mongrel(after) con+2(+4) -> str-3(-2) dex+1(+0) con+4(con+2) wis-2(-0) cha-2(-0), spot/listen/diplomacy/sensem +1 but Hide/Bluff/Intim/Concentration/Initiative -1, move s/ride +2, dv30, save vs Disease +2, survival -2, base move 20
size small but counts as tiny when favorable (ac/attack+1, hide+4)

Sig's Comment: Want one as a pet? :P Cute and cuddly in an ugly way, sorta chubby, googly eyes and pale skin with a fine coat of black-to-grey fuzz like a bipedal pug mutt of some kind. In fact, that's what I had in mind...

Soldier Inbred Orc "Warhowler"
base str+4 int/wis/cha-2 dv 60, light sensitivity -1
apply str/con+4 dex/int/cha-2
subtotal str+8 dex-2 con+4 int/cha-4 wis-2
inbred(after) int-2(-6) -> str+12 dex-3(-2) con+6 int-9(-8) wis-3(-2) cha-6, dv 120, light sensitivity -2, base move +10, NAC+2, powerful build, Spot/Listen/Search/Intimidate/Jump/Swim/Balance/Climb/Initiative +3 but Diplomacy/SenseM/Concentrate -6

Sig's Comment: "Graaaa! Me so cool, me make Cambion look like Teletubby!" Or rather, who would ever want to play as one? -_- Just breed a pack like hunting dogs, put collars on, let loose in the front line for devastation. Good luck getting them back without food rewards, proper training, or Charms, though. CharOp boards at Wizards forum would have a blast abusing this race but because good ol' Siggypoo wrote this, they will probably disregard it as non-RAW and 'houserule' and that's probably for the better.

Pleasure-Artisan Inbred Elf "Albino Flop-ear Elf, or Flop-Elf"
base dex+2 con-2 spot/listen/search +2
apply dex/cha+2 str/con-2
subtotal str-2 dex+4 con-4 cha+2, Spot/Listen +4, Perform +8, base move -10
Petite Build
inbred: str-2 dex+6 con-6 int-2 cha+2, Spot/Listen +6, Search/Diplomacy/Sense Motive +3, Perform +12, base move -15, Surv -15, Hide/Bluff/Intim -3

Sig's Comment: Yay! My favorite. Inspired by those flopearred rabbits in the local mall pet store, I always stop and rub their noggins with my girlfriend. It's necessito. Now imagine that combined with your average fantasy elf, only smaller like a chunky-halfling size, exotic pastel colors of hair, and a constantly complacent expression. Pretty much just sits around looking pretty and eating... What's the point, some wonder? Well, why do people have show-dogs? How about show-elves? Gawd, even the drow are going to come hunt for me for wanting to raise these critters, I must seem worse to elves than some freakish necromancer experimenting with the townsfolk...

1 level = 15 CP, 1 of that CP as replacement for feats/ability score advancements only (don't use PHB chart as well!)

Increase Size :
> Penalties Hide-4 (CP+2)/AC-1(CP+2)/Attack-1(CP+2)
> Increase Reach +5: CP-3
> Increase Movement +5 : CP-1 x2, CP-2
> Use Larger Weapons : CP-2
> Must Use Large Armors (increased cost) : CP-2
> STR+8 : CP-16
> DEX-2 : CP+4
> CON+4 : CP-8
> NAC+2 : CP-4
total CP cost for size increase M to L: CP-17 (nearly a whole level)

Decrease Size :
> Hide+4 (CP-2)/AC+1(CP-2)/Attack+1(CP-2)
> Decreased Movement -5 : CP+1 x2, CP+2
> 3/4 carrying weight : CP+1
> Use Smaller Weapons : CP+2
> Must Use Smaller Armors : CP+1
total CP cost for size decrease M to S: CP+0 (free)

Hmmmm need to work on this more, must be other factors I'm missing, or confused about. Isn't larger a much better benefit? Or maybe not!
Rapture_of_Rupture
04-21-07, 03:21 AM I have to say, i'm intrigued. I would like to use these in my next campaign. Sadly I have no concept of balance among templates. That said, the 'Soldier' looks a little on the high +1/2 side.

When all is said and done, I like the concept. You get a GOLD STAR.
sigma999
04-21-07, 03:27 AM Probably true... but I dabbled with lowering INT more (cuz what expendable arrow-bait needs INT?) but it ended up being worse than the Cambion, my new measuring stick for racial stat mod suckitude.
I'm going for bare-minimum sentience... is it INT 3 the limit to acquire class levels and speak language?
Maybe I'll just write "INT becomes 3" <_<

Always looking for more niche role ideas, btw. Just gimme some cultural function to fill and I'll stat it out.
Rapture_of_Rupture
04-21-07, 03:40 AM Probably true... but I dabbled with lowering INT more (cuz what expendable arrow-bait needs INT?) but it ended up being worse than the Cambion, my new measuring stick for racial stat mod suckitude.
I'm going for bare-minimum sentience... is it INT 3 the limit to acquire class levels and speak language?
Maybe I'll just write "INT becomes 3" <_<

Always looking for more niche role ideas, btw. Just gimme some cultural function to fill and I'll stat it out.

If i remember right 3 is the minimum for learning a language.

Lowering the creatures INT to 3 should balance it.

As for niches, how about a watchdog type breed? Bonuses to Wis, the scent ability, or racial bonuses to listen/spot? Not made for combat really but chasing creatures and keeping and eye open.
sigma999
04-21-07, 03:47 AM Ah, OK! So how about...

I factor in the fact that, say, your average warrior-race like an Orc all ready HAS an INT penalty, and then just make the Soldier Breed INT penalty enough that whatever end-product that may be, becomes around 3. Any lower, and it's pretty much an animal, bottoming out at INT 1.

So that's assuming an average Orc has INT 8.. the penalty would have to be 4-6, forcing the creature to either raise INT by a single point to stay sentient after the -6 is applied, orrr with -4 it's not so much pressure, and that's pretty much the conundrum I've had...
OK, just do a Soldier Inbred and that's another -2 INT, should be fine and very, very dumb cuz the 'normal' Soldier is pretty close to a normal Orc as is, anyways.
Rapture_of_Rupture
04-21-07, 03:53 AM I think a -4 INT for the Soldier template sounds good. After all, in DnD all infantry seem to be for is to meatshield while casters do their Magic Missle thing. (never let anyone tell you otherwise, 10 level 1 Sorcs with a Wand of MM can decimate any army)
sigma999
04-22-07, 01:05 AM As for niches, how about a watchdog type breed? Bonuses to Wis, the scent ability, or racial bonuses to listen/spot? Not made for combat really but chasing creatures and keeping and eye open.

Will do! Although, maybe a WIS bonus would be better for a 'priest caste' or something similar to the Brahmans of India, bred for introspection and mastery of internal energies but must be physically protected.
Although, how many 'detect' skills are there? Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, Search... things like this could have just a bigger modifier. 'Watchdog' won't be needed for combat at all, so all the bonuses can be focused on movement, tracking, and evasion (Hide/Move Silently among others)
turalisj
04-26-07, 05:33 PM If i remember right 3 is the minimum for learning a language.

Lowering the creatures INT to 3 should balance it.

As for niches, how about a watchdog type breed? Bonuses to Wis, the scent ability, or racial bonuses to listen/spot? Not made for combat really but chasing creatures and keeping and eye open.

An intelligence of three is just above caveman levels. They would be too stupid to follow any but the most basic commands.
sigma999
05-01-07, 07:37 PM An intelligence of three is just above caveman levels. They would be too stupid to follow any but the most basic commands.

Exactly!

"Release the WAR-ORCS!!!"

How about inbred soldier war-pixies? Ouch.
turalisj
05-01-07, 09:51 PM Tell them 'Attack'. As soon as the last enemy falls, guess who they attack? Or the enemy uses guerrilla tactics (hit and run, ambush, etc). How would they react to an ambush?

Let me restate me previous statement, int 3 is below caveman levels. They wouldn't know how to use a sword, because they could not learn how. It would be like teaching a 2 year old calculus... Or me calculus... >.>' Just can't be done.
sigma999
05-02-07, 04:44 PM Maybe some natural attacks should suffice.. option of bite, slam, or claw? I'm a little buisy right now but when I get the 'tracker' or 'watcher' breed done I'll update the others too as needed.

And need I remind you that most animals in d20 have abysmal Intelligence yet thrive! The abstraction that is the "intelligence score" really should be taken with a grain of salt... it's an approximation of book smarts and higher-level thinking, not necessarily a distance from behavior such as squatting, nosepicking and going "duhhhhhrrrr" all the time.

I expect an INT 3 Soldier Orc to react quite well to ambushes and respect the hand that feeds it. It might have its moments of panic and forget training at times, but in general it would behave similar to this animal:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/baboon.htm

Take note of it's INT score too! o_<

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sigma999 04-20-07, 11:39 PM	I, Sig the Red, faun-devil sorcerer extraordinaire, have taken upon myself the task of categorizing the specialized breeding techniques of many worlds. Here for your enlightenment is my research from observation upon the future and glory of civilized worlds! Unfortunately, in my travels I have also encountered those that object to the manipulation of so called 'lesser creatures' to achieve desired cultural niches. I have dealt with most of those of dissenting opinion for the sake of observing my research subjects just a bit longer, but eventually on every world the conflicts between "truebreeds" and "cultureds" became too dangerous and I was forced to move on. Here, dear sentients, on these scrolls are blueprints for genesis of new life. I have seen entire worlds climb from squabbling 'races' into unified, civilized whole, and bring this gift to spread to your own homelands. I have even begun to suspect that even I am a product of focused breeding, being an improbably mixture of both devil and fey, but I must seek further proof of my hypothesis. I wish not for the outcome to be that I am merely a 'halfbreed' but rather possessing a destiny of greatness and power. Perhaps you, too, sentient, are part of this new age of specialized beings. We shall see... BREED TEMPLATES (limit 1) draft 4/20/07 (note: round down Level Adjustments to the nearest whole number, for those of you that haven't seen my d20 classless project I'll remind you that most feats are worth 2 {for skillbonus, metamagic, or noncombat} to 3 Character Points {most combat and 'improvement' feats} and you can use any 'CP leftovers' to add more feats) Domesticated LA +1/2 Domesticated creatures are the product of generations of anti-aggressive selective breeding, much like how dogs relate to wolves. They are social to a fault and ancestral coloration becomes spotted, blurred, and random. Also, mammals possess upright tails and "floppy ears" as well as a lessened ability to NOT express their feelings! All of these traits combine to produce the ultimate cultured creature, capable of thriving in regulated civilization, but have lost many of their ancient instincts. Their roles are diverse but shallow, generally meant to accompany more capable beings as a sidekick and companion and nothing more. In fact, many Domesticated creatures have difficulty regulating their own food supply... ~ CON+2 but STR/WIS-2, ~ Spot/Listen/Diplomacy/Sense Motive +2 but Hide/Bluff/Intim -2, Survival -10, ~ Base Movement -5, ~ Petite Build(CP-3): counts as 1 size smaller than normal for all advantageous situations (Hide+4,attack/AC+1) Artisan LA +1/2 Artisans are specialized producers in heavily civilized cultures. They are bred to become the lifeblood of a culture, interdependant not only with each other but upon the other breeds for food, shelter, and direction. ~ DEX/CHR+2 but STR/CON-2, ~ all Perform/Craft +3, Spot/Listen/UMD/Concentrate/Diplomacy/Sense Motive/GatherInfo +2, ~ Petite Build, ~ Base Movement -5, ~ Survival -10 when isolated from other Artisans for at least a day Pleasure (Artisan-subtype, add after Artisan) LA +0 Pleasure-Artisans, or just Pleasure breed, is a hyperfocused subtype of any Artisan breed. They are created for the single purpose of entertaining greater beings, and not much more. They have a knack for remembering minor details as well as bred for gracefulness but tend to be extremely delicate. as Artisan but stack the following: ~ STR-2 ~ all Perform +5 ~ Craft -3 (for total templates result+0) ~ Base Movement -5 ~ Knowledge (Local) +5 ~ Sound Imitation (Fiend Folio p125, CP-2, mimick any sound last heard, Will save DC 16 to discover trick) Soldier LA +1/2 Soldier breeds are born for combat and are barely capable of anything else. They are good at what they do, though, which is pretty much just tearing the next target's throat out. ~ STR/CON+4 but DEX/INT/CHA-2 ~ Spot/Listen/Search/Intimidate/Jump/Swim/Balance/Climb/Initiative +2 but Diplomacy/SenseM/Concentrate -4, ~ Powerful Build(CP-3), ~ NAC+1, ~ Bite or Slam attack 1d6 ~ Base Movement +5, ~ Survival -10 unless given orders every day Worker LA +1/2 Workers labor under the direction of greater beings and know nothing beyond their tasks. Multiplying fast and requiring low-maintainance, they are easily expendable. They do best in groups under the supervision of an intelligent being but without direction they die quickly. Construction, shipment, deconstruction, excavation, ~ DEX+2,CON+4 but INT/WIS-4, ~ Spot/Listen/Search/Profession/Concentrate +2, ~ Carrying Load +50%, ~ Fire/Cold resist 5, ~ Will -2 ~ Survival -10 when isolated for a day or more Elite LA +1 Elites are bred for individuality, leadership, and to guide their civilizations. ~ increase all Racial bonuses by 50% (round down), ~ remove Racial defect of up to 2 CP ~ add feats of up to a total of 6 CP BREED COMBINING TEMPLATES (limit 1, applicable with or without a Breed Template, apply after all other templates and racial traits are accounted for) Mongrel LA +0 ~ half all numeric Racial traits and round down to nearest even number for ability scores, then add the following: ~ Fort save vs. Disease +2, ~ add 2 or more additional [Bloodline] or [Heritage] feats for free ~ CON+2 (after previous mods) Inbred LA +0 ~ increase all numeric Racial traits by 50% and round down to nearest even number for ability scores, then add the following: ~ Fort save vs. Disease -2 ~ INT-2 Mule (usually sterile versions of unlikely crossbreeds) LA +1/2 ~ STR+2 and CON+2 but CHA-2; the Mule benefits from diverse blood covering some biological weaknesses but the "natural instinct" is a little off and the creature doesn't express all the normal behavioral patterns of its parents ~ Powerful Build (if stacked with a previous Powerful Build, make size Large and give +5 reach and Base Move +10), ~ Sterile (defect, CP+2, not all Mules have this) don't mind the jumble, it's pretty much shorthand for common D&D skills, ability scores, etc. if you are familiar with D&D and d20 you can probably guess which abbreviation stands for what. it was meant for my viewing at first but instead I give you some samples and comments with these templates, enjoy Domesticated Mongrel Goblin "Spotted Pet Goblin" base str-2 dex+2 cha-2 small dv 60 MoveS/Ride +4 apply con+2 str-2 wis-2 with petite build and str-2 subtotal str -6 dex+2 con+2 wis-2 cha-2 mongrel(after) con+2(+4) -> str-3(-2) dex+1(+0) con+4(con+2) wis-2(-0) cha-2(-0), spot/listen/diplomacy/sensem +1 but Hide/Bluff/Intim/Concentration/Initiative -1, move s/ride +2, dv30, save vs Disease +2, survival -2, base move 20 size small but counts as tiny when favorable (ac/attack+1, hide+4) Sig's Comment: Want one as a pet? :P Cute and cuddly in an ugly way, sorta chubby, googly eyes and pale skin with a fine coat of black-to-grey fuzz like a bipedal pug mutt of some kind. In fact, that's what I had in mind... Soldier Inbred Orc "Warhowler" base str+4 int/wis/cha-2 dv 60, light sensitivity -1 apply str/con+4 dex/int/cha-2 subtotal str+8 dex-2 con+4 int/cha-4 wis-2 inbred(after) int-2(-6) -> str+12 dex-3(-2) con+6 int-9(-8) wis-3(-2) cha-6, dv 120, light sensitivity -2, base move +10, NAC+2, powerful build, Spot/Listen/Search/Intimidate/Jump/Swim/Balance/Climb/Initiative +3 but Diplomacy/SenseM/Concentrate -6 Sig's Comment: "Graaaa! Me so cool, me make Cambion look like Teletubby!" Or rather, who would ever want to play as one? -_- Just breed a pack like hunting dogs, put collars on, let loose in the front line for devastation. Good luck getting them back without food rewards, proper training, or Charms, though. CharOp boards at Wizards forum would have a blast abusing this race but because good ol' Siggypoo wrote this, they will probably disregard it as non-RAW and 'houserule' and that's probably for the better. Pleasure-Artisan Inbred Elf "Albino Flop-ear Elf, or Flop-Elf" base dex+2 con-2 spot/listen/search +2 apply dex/cha+2 str/con-2 subtotal str-2 dex+4 con-4 cha+2, Spot/Listen +4, Perform +8, base move -10 Petite Build inbred: str-2 dex+6 con-6 int-2 cha+2, Spot/Listen +6, Search/Diplomacy/Sense Motive +3, Perform +12, base move -15, Surv -15, Hide/Bluff/Intim -3 Sig's Comment: Yay! My favorite. Inspired by those flopearred rabbits in the local mall pet store, I always stop and rub their noggins with my girlfriend. It's necessito. Now imagine that combined with your average fantasy elf, only smaller like a chunky-halfling size, exotic pastel colors of hair, and a constantly complacent expression. Pretty much just sits around looking pretty and eating... What's the point, some wonder? Well, why do people have show-dogs? How about show-elves? Gawd, even the drow are going to come hunt for me for wanting to raise these critters, I must seem worse to elves than some freakish necromancer experimenting with the townsfolk... 1 level = 15 CP, 1 of that CP as replacement for feats/ability score advancements only (don't use PHB chart as well!) Increase Size : > Penalties Hide-4 (CP+2)/AC-1(CP+2)/Attack-1(CP+2) > Increase Reach +5: CP-3 > Increase Movement +5 : CP-1 x2, CP-2 > Use Larger Weapons : CP-2 > Must Use Large Armors (increased cost) : CP-2 > STR+8 : CP-16 > DEX-2 : CP+4 > CON+4 : CP-8 > NAC+2 : CP-4 total CP cost for size increase M to L: CP-17 (nearly a whole level) Decrease Size : > Hide+4 (CP-2)/AC+1(CP-2)/Attack+1(CP-2) > Decreased Movement -5 : CP+1 x2, CP+2 > 3/4 carrying weight : CP+1 > Use Smaller Weapons : CP+2 > Must Use Smaller Armors : CP+1 total CP cost for size decrease M to S: CP+0 (free) Hmmmm need to work on this more, must be other factors I'm missing, or confused about. Isn't larger a much better benefit? Or maybe not!
Rapture_of_Rupture 04-21-07, 03:21 AM	I have to say, i'm intrigued. I would like to use these in my next campaign. Sadly I have no concept of balance among templates. That said, the 'Soldier' looks a little on the high +1/2 side. When all is said and done, I like the concept. You get a GOLD STAR.
sigma999 04-21-07, 03:27 AM	Probably true... but I dabbled with lowering INT more (cuz what expendable arrow-bait needs INT?) but it ended up being worse than the Cambion, my new measuring stick for racial stat mod suckitude. I'm going for bare-minimum sentience... is it INT 3 the limit to acquire class levels and speak language? Maybe I'll just write "INT becomes 3" <_< Always looking for more niche role ideas, btw. Just gimme some cultural function to fill and I'll stat it out.
Rapture_of_Rupture 04-21-07, 03:40 AM	Probably true... but I dabbled with lowering INT more (cuz what expendable arrow-bait needs INT?) but it ended up being worse than the Cambion, my new measuring stick for racial stat mod suckitude. I'm going for bare-minimum sentience... is it INT 3 the limit to acquire class levels and speak language? Maybe I'll just write "INT becomes 3" <_< Always looking for more niche role ideas, btw. Just gimme some cultural function to fill and I'll stat it out. If i remember right 3 is the minimum for learning a language. Lowering the creatures INT to 3 should balance it. As for niches, how about a watchdog type breed? Bonuses to Wis, the scent ability, or racial bonuses to listen/spot? Not made for combat really but chasing creatures and keeping and eye open.
sigma999 04-21-07, 03:47 AM	Ah, OK! So how about... I factor in the fact that, say, your average warrior-race like an Orc all ready HAS an INT penalty, and then just make the Soldier Breed INT penalty enough that whatever end-product that may be, becomes around 3. Any lower, and it's pretty much an animal, bottoming out at INT 1. So that's assuming an average Orc has INT 8.. the penalty would have to be 4-6, forcing the creature to either raise INT by a single point to stay sentient after the -6 is applied, orrr with -4 it's not so much pressure, and that's pretty much the conundrum I've had... OK, just do a Soldier Inbred and that's another -2 INT, should be fine and very, very dumb cuz the 'normal' Soldier is pretty close to a normal Orc as is, anyways.
Rapture_of_Rupture 04-21-07, 03:53 AM	I think a -4 INT for the Soldier template sounds good. After all, in DnD all infantry seem to be for is to meatshield while casters do their Magic Missle thing. (never let anyone tell you otherwise, 10 level 1 Sorcs with a Wand of MM can decimate any army)
sigma999 04-22-07, 01:05 AM	As for niches, how about a watchdog type breed? Bonuses to Wis, the scent ability, or racial bonuses to listen/spot? Not made for combat really but chasing creatures and keeping and eye open. Will do! Although, maybe a WIS bonus would be better for a 'priest caste' or something similar to the Brahmans of India, bred for introspection and mastery of internal energies but must be physically protected. Although, how many 'detect' skills are there? Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, Search... things like this could have just a bigger modifier. 'Watchdog' won't be needed for combat at all, so all the bonuses can be focused on movement, tracking, and evasion (Hide/Move Silently among others)
turalisj 04-26-07, 05:33 PM	If i remember right 3 is the minimum for learning a language. Lowering the creatures INT to 3 should balance it. As for niches, how about a watchdog type breed? Bonuses to Wis, the scent ability, or racial bonuses to listen/spot? Not made for combat really but chasing creatures and keeping and eye open. An intelligence of three is just above caveman levels. They would be too stupid to follow any but the most basic commands.
sigma999 05-01-07, 07:37 PM	An intelligence of three is just above caveman levels. They would be too stupid to follow any but the most basic commands. Exactly! "Release the WAR-ORCS!!!" How about inbred soldier war-pixies? Ouch.
turalisj 05-01-07, 09:51 PM	Tell them 'Attack'. As soon as the last enemy falls, guess who they attack? Or the enemy uses guerrilla tactics (hit and run, ambush, etc). How would they react to an ambush? Let me restate me previous statement, int 3 is below caveman levels. They wouldn't know how to use a sword, because they could not learn how. It would be like teaching a 2 year old calculus... Or me calculus... >.>' Just can't be done.
sigma999 05-02-07, 04:44 PM	Maybe some natural attacks should suffice.. option of bite, slam, or claw? I'm a little buisy right now but when I get the 'tracker' or 'watcher' breed done I'll update the others too as needed. And need I remind you that most animals in d20 have abysmal Intelligence yet thrive! The abstraction that is the "intelligence score" really should be taken with a grain of salt... it's an approximation of book smarts and higher-level thinking, not necessarily a distance from behavior such as squatting, nosepicking and going "duhhhhhrrrr" all the time. I expect an INT 3 Soldier Orc to react quite well to ambushes and respect the hand that feeds it. It might have its moments of panic and forget training at times, but in general it would behave similar to this animal: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/baboon.htm Take note of it's INT score too! o_<