Spartans! (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spartans! (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mr_Pants
03-02-07, 12:47 AM I have to give credit to Obsidian Rose for designing most of the race

Spartans

Traits:
+4 Str +2 Con -2 Int
Medium Size
Base Land Speed: 30 Feet*

Powerful Build

Martial Training: a Spartan’s martial training provides him with proficiency with all spears and all shields.

Spear Affinity: a Spartan has exceptional training with spears and can throw any spear with a range increment of 15 feet. Spears can be wielded in one hand without penalty.

Shield Affinity: a Spartan can use a tower shield to grant cover to himself and one ally while still fighting.

Never Run Away: when retreating from an enemy the Spartan's movement speed drops to 10 feet.

Fighting with a Brother: a spartan gains the benefits of superior flanking when flanking with a fellow spartan.

Level Adjustment: 3

Spartan Racial Feats

Fight in the Shade [Spartan] [Fighter]

Prerequisites: Phalanx Fighting, Spartan Race, Endurance, BAB 6

Benefit: When a Spartan receives attacks from over 100 archers while not engaged in melee combat, apply twice his shield modifier as an additional deflection bonus to armor class (stacks with all other bonuses). In addition, the Spartan is not fatigue while fighting under arrows thick enough to blacken the sky.

Eat a Hearty Breakfast [General]

Prerequisites: Endurance, Spartan Race

Benefit: Whenever a Spartan goes into a battle with hopeless odds (DM’s approval), the Spartan gains the Fearful Presence ability of a dragon of equal HD. In addition, the Spartan gains +4 to attack, damage, and rolls to resist bull rush, overrun, trip, disarm, and sunder.

Tonight We Dine in Hell [General]

Prerequisites: Eat a Heart Breakfast

Benefit: The spartan gains 5 additional hit points per hit die, the Spartan can never be brought back from the dead even with true resurrection

Face of Sparta [General] [Fighter]:

Prerequisites: Spartan

Benefit: The Spartan gains a +4 to leadership in regards to followers when dealing with Spartans.

Faceless Spartan [General]

Prerequisites Face of Sparta

Benefit: The Spartan can not be individually targeted by magic. Instead, randomly determine any Spartan as the target of the spell.

so what do you think?
Naderion
03-02-07, 04:06 AM I'd say make level 6 human barbarians.

Just look at the ability modifiers: These are not humans, these are not even mortals. Give them avarage ability scores for player characters and you're at like 20, 16, 20, 12, 16, 12.
It looks like a babau demon.
JarionSilverblades
03-02-07, 08:21 AM Between the ability score modifiers, Powerful Build, and Feats, it's just way to much. Check out the Amazon (PEACH) race.
obsidianrose
03-02-07, 04:33 PM The Spartans are meant to be inhuman. But how can this be balanced better?
kwanzaabot
03-02-07, 04:52 PM As a DM, I can safely say that I would never let anyone play this. Ever.

The trouble is, that the Spartan would probably overpower me.
+6 to Str and Con? AND Powerful Build, AND those feats? Yikes.

The Spartans were nearly unstoppable because of their military training, not because they were born that way.
If I were you, i'd look at a physically strong race (Orcs for example), and maybe consider doing a Spartan class. A class that could represent them would be super-neat.

I can see that a lot of effort went into making this, but there's no downside to them at all. They're too good at everything.
Mr_Pants
03-02-07, 05:10 PM naderion, the spartans were not supposed to be human. They were descended from Hercules himself

kwanzaabot, wtf? no downside? if they are ever disarmed of their shield they are considered helpless and thus coup de grace-able. Also they can never run away... ever. if they do they lose all bonuses and abilities and still have the level adjustment for absolutely nothing.
ElberethSilverleaf
03-02-07, 05:18 PM The Spartans abilities were undeniably a byproduct of their culture. Here is some important info about their culture that should be included...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_pederasty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GREECE/SPARTA.HTM
Alcalientre
03-02-07, 05:29 PM I would just say that any human that goes through Spartan military training gains, say, 2 fighter levels, and recieves appropriate feats. But I'm looking at this from a historical perspective, not a "OMG those guys in that movie killed all those monsters and Persians and there were only 300 of them!!!" perspective. Assuming that's where you got the insiration for this race. You may also have gotten the inspiration from God of War, and if so you must remember that Kratos, at least by the end of the game, is definitely epic.
Still, 2 levels in fighter more than accounts for the superior military might of real Spartans. In a battle between level 2 fighters and level 1 warriors, there's not much question about which side will come out on top.
Fiendishfiend
03-02-07, 05:31 PM WOOO!!spartan race!! So cool. I think its a little over powered, but the fact that a simple shatter spell can make him helpless long enough for a foe to coup de gra him, I guess its balanced.Or does he not become helpless when its destroyed,but only when its dropped. I'm confused.
Mr_Pants
03-02-07, 05:33 PM yeah im not sure myself whether or not its balanced, im talking to obsidian about what to change about it though
Mr_Pants
03-02-07, 06:04 PM I would just say that any human that goes through Spartan military training gains, say, 2 fighter levels, and recieves appropriate feats. But I'm looking at this from a historical perspective, not a "OMG those guys in that movie killed all those monsters and Persians and there were only 300 of them!!!" perspective. Assuming that's where you got the insiration for this race. You may also have gotten the inspiration from God of War, and if so you must remember that Kratos, at least by the end of the game, is definitely epic.
Still, 2 levels in fighter more than accounts for the superior military might of real Spartans. In a battle between level 2 fighters and level 1 warriors, there's not much question about which side will come out on top.

the "OMG those guys in that movie..." view could be renamed to fantastical view to make it not burn my eyes so much. and yes that is the viewpoint from the race was created. as i stated above spartans were descendants of hercules, something that i know is not true in reality
HomebrewedMonster
03-02-07, 08:09 PM When you watch a movie trailer (I'm guessing you havn't read the graphic novel), do not take it as truth. The movie has been made fantasty as it was in the graphic novel. To make a spartan race please do some research on their "actual" history and realize that all the "racial feats" are from being hard campaign veterans that fought by the side of their king.

Nice try, but its too much.

For those that don't know it comes out next Friday 300 (http://300themovie.warnerbros.com/)
Mr_Pants
03-02-07, 08:12 PM thx but i have read the comic, and im looking to tone down the race a lot. It is still not supposed to be realistic. I'll post an edited version later.
Mr_Pants
03-04-07, 12:29 AM edited version is up, tell me what you think now
HomebrewedMonster
03-04-07, 01:10 AM I have to give credit to Obsidian Rose for designing most of the race

Spartans

Traits:
+4 Str +2 Con -2 Int
Medium Size
Base Land Speed: 30 Feet*

Powerful Build

Sure

Martial Training: a Spartan’s martial training provides him with proficiency with all spears and all shields.

Martial Training: Spartans recieve the Weapon Profiency for shortspear, spear, and long spear as well as shield profiency.

Spear Affinity: a Spartan has exceptional training with spears and can throw any spear with a range increment of 15 feet. Spears can be wielded in one hand without penalty.

With powerful build they should not be able to wield and two-handed weapon in one hand as well as it having an increased size. So instead of having a d8 shortspear with a shield they now get a 2d6 reach weapon in one hand? I don't think so.

As for the range increment, this "race" can now wield and reach, 2d6, 15ft range increment weapon which they gain profiency with for free. This is over-powered.

Shield Affinity: a Spartan becomes so attached to his shield that whenever he is disarmed of it or he drops he becomes helpless. In addition a Spartan can use a tower shield to grant cover to himself and one ally while still fighting.

This doesn't really make sense. So a race of the greatest warriors can be coup de graced if they have their shield sundered or get surprised? So when they are walking around town are they helpless? Get rid of this. It is not going to lower the level adjustment.

Never Run Away: while moving towards an enemy a Spartan’s movement increases to 40 feet, however when moving away from an enemy it is reduced to 5 feet.

So the greatest tactical warriors of all time can not fall back and regroup effectively? This again doesn't seem to portrait them well. They do not move faster than a normal human, if they do its because all spartans are barbarian/fighter/warriors.

Fighting with a Brother: a Spartan gains double the normal morale bonus when fighting with a fellow Spartan

No, this is not balanced, there are far too many moral bonus spells that are amazing as it is, let alone doubling the effect. I would give them the Superior Flanking abilitiy: When flanking with a fellow spartan the bonus is increase from a +2 to a +4.

Level Adjustment: 3?

With powerful build, +6 physical, -2 mental is at least a +2, then with all the profiencies and other whacky abilities it is definately a 3.

Spartan Racial Feats

Spartans Never Lose [Spartan] [Fighter]
Requirements: Spartan Race, Character Level 18

Benefit: If the character is outnumbered in a fight, multiply attack bonuses, damage, and shield bonus to armor class by the number of foes while dividing by the number of allies (including the character). This bonus is lost if the Spartan is caught flat-footed or helpless.

Fight in the Shade [Spartan] [Fighter]

Prerequisites: Phalanx Fighting, Spartan Race, Endurance, BAB 6

Benefit: When a Spartan receives attacks from over 100 archers while not engaged in melee combat, apply twice his shield modifier as an additional deflection bonus to armor class (stacks with all other bonuses). In addition, the Spartan is not fatigue while fighting under arrows thick enough to blacken the sky.

Eat a Hearty Breakfast [General]

Prerequisites: Endurance, Spartan Race

Benefit: Whenever a Spartan goes into a battle with hopeless odds (DM’s approval), the Spartan gains the Fearful Presence ability of a dragon of equal HD. In addition, the Spartan gains +4 to attack, damage, and rolls to resist bull rush, overrun, trip, disarm, and sunder.

Tonight We Dine in Hell [General]

Prerequisites: Eat a Heart Breakfast

Benefit: The Spartan doubles his hit points provided by hit dice. This does not provide additional hit dice, nor does it increase any other sources of hit points. The Spartan can never be brought back from the dead.

Face of Sparta [General] [Fighter]:

Prerequisites: Spartan

Benefit: The Spartan gains a +4 to leadership in regards to followers when dealing with Spartans.

Faceless Spartan [General]

Prerequisites Face of Sparta

Benefit: The Spartan can not be individually targeted by magic. Instead, randomly determine any Spartan as the target of the spell.

so what do you think?

I don't like the feats, they all have clunky mechanics and are wordly poorly so I'm not too sure what you are trying to get out of them. There are plenty of feats in Complete Warrior, Player's Handbook II, and Heroes of Battle that replicate the tactics and strategies of spartans.

Those 300 spartans were at least warrior4/barbarian1/fighter1 and had phalanx fighter, combat expertise, and allied defense. When you combine that in a formation if you have two allies to your side you are gaining +17 to your armor class (+2 from phalanx fighter, +5 from your combat expertise, +5 from ally to the left, +5 from ally to the right...and yes dodge bonuses do stack).

My take on the Spartans, its a template.

Herculeus blooded
A herculeus blooded is an inherited template that can be added to any humanoid or monsterous humanoid. A herculeus blooded creature uses all base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Size and type: As base creature
Armor Class: Natural armor improves by 1.
Special Qualities: A herculeus blooded creature has all the special qualities of the base create plus:
Enduring Health: A herculeus' natural healing rate is doubled. Example: A 4th level fighter herculeus blooded would gain 8 hit points for 8 hours of sleep, 12 from full days bed rest, and 16 from a full days bed rest with care..
Stability: A herculeus blooded gains a +4 ability check to checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground.
Saves: A herculeus blooded saves are as the base creature.
Abilities: Increase the base creature as follows: Str +2, Dex +0, Con +2, Int +0, Wis +0, Cha +0

As is that's about a +1 LA, if you give it powerful its +2.
Mr_Pants
03-04-07, 02:41 AM thanks for your input, by the way I did not make the feats or the shield and spear stuff. And the spear damage increase was not included in the edited version. and the superior flanking sounds like it would fit
Alucard7087824
03-04-07, 02:09 PM the feat "Spartans Never Lose" seems massively overpowered.
Ex.: Single Spartan enters fight with heavy steel shield against 40 opponents, AC becomes 100+, Attack bonus becomes 1140, and damage is multiplied by 40. until he gets down to about 3 opponents, he is going to have insane bonuses and damage and AC and will be untouchable. then it becomes an almost fair fight with him having an AC or around 50, an attack bonus of about 84, and 3 times damage.

Could you explain how this feat is not completely broken?
Mr_Pants
03-04-07, 05:32 PM the feat "Spartans Never Lose" seems massively overpowered.
Ex.: Single Spartan enters fight with heavy steel shield against 40 opponents, AC becomes 100+, Attack bonus becomes 1140, and damage is multiplied by 40. until he gets down to about 3 opponents, he is going to have insane bonuses and damage and AC and will be untouchable. then it becomes an almost fair fight with him having an AC or around 50, an attack bonus of about 84, and 3 times damage.

Could you explain how this feat is not completely broken?

no i can't, its not my feat. The feats were designed by Obsidian Rose
obsidianrose
03-04-07, 05:38 PM Spartans Never Lose was meant as a joke. It's a phrase that comes up a lot when we game, especially when we fight Spartans. It's to justify the fact that Spartans might actually by killable, but when I DM it makes me sad to see Spartans die. And it's to explain why Thermopylae actually worked out. The rest are relatively balanced compared to the major drawbacks

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mr_Pants 03-02-07, 12:47 AM	I have to give credit to Obsidian Rose for designing most of the race Spartans Traits: +4 Str +2 Con -2 Int Medium Size Base Land Speed: 30 Feet* Powerful Build Martial Training: a Spartan’s martial training provides him with proficiency with all spears and all shields. Spear Affinity: a Spartan has exceptional training with spears and can throw any spear with a range increment of 15 feet. Spears can be wielded in one hand without penalty. Shield Affinity: a Spartan can use a tower shield to grant cover to himself and one ally while still fighting. Never Run Away: when retreating from an enemy the Spartan's movement speed drops to 10 feet. Fighting with a Brother: a spartan gains the benefits of superior flanking when flanking with a fellow spartan. Level Adjustment: 3 Spartan Racial Feats Fight in the Shade [Spartan] [Fighter] Prerequisites: Phalanx Fighting, Spartan Race, Endurance, BAB 6 Benefit: When a Spartan receives attacks from over 100 archers while not engaged in melee combat, apply twice his shield modifier as an additional deflection bonus to armor class (stacks with all other bonuses). In addition, the Spartan is not fatigue while fighting under arrows thick enough to blacken the sky. Eat a Hearty Breakfast [General] Prerequisites: Endurance, Spartan Race Benefit: Whenever a Spartan goes into a battle with hopeless odds (DM’s approval), the Spartan gains the Fearful Presence ability of a dragon of equal HD. In addition, the Spartan gains +4 to attack, damage, and rolls to resist bull rush, overrun, trip, disarm, and sunder. Tonight We Dine in Hell [General] Prerequisites: Eat a Heart Breakfast Benefit: The spartan gains 5 additional hit points per hit die, the Spartan can never be brought back from the dead even with true resurrection Face of Sparta [General] [Fighter]: Prerequisites: Spartan Benefit: The Spartan gains a +4 to leadership in regards to followers when dealing with Spartans. Faceless Spartan [General] Prerequisites Face of Sparta Benefit: The Spartan can not be individually targeted by magic. Instead, randomly determine any Spartan as the target of the spell. so what do you think?
Naderion 03-02-07, 04:06 AM	I'd say make level 6 human barbarians. Just look at the ability modifiers: These are not humans, these are not even mortals. Give them avarage ability scores for player characters and you're at like 20, 16, 20, 12, 16, 12. It looks like a babau demon.
JarionSilverblades 03-02-07, 08:21 AM	Between the ability score modifiers, Powerful Build, and Feats, it's just way to much. Check out the Amazon (PEACH) race.
obsidianrose 03-02-07, 04:33 PM	The Spartans are meant to be inhuman. But how can this be balanced better?
kwanzaabot 03-02-07, 04:52 PM	As a DM, I can safely say that I would never let anyone play this. Ever. The trouble is, that the Spartan would probably overpower me. +6 to Str and Con? AND Powerful Build, AND those feats? Yikes. The Spartans were nearly unstoppable because of their military training, not because they were born that way. If I were you, i'd look at a physically strong race (Orcs for example), and maybe consider doing a Spartan class. A class that could represent them would be super-neat. I can see that a lot of effort went into making this, but there's no downside to them at all. They're too good at everything.
Mr_Pants 03-02-07, 05:10 PM	naderion, the spartans were not supposed to be human. They were descended from Hercules himself kwanzaabot, wtf? no downside? if they are ever disarmed of their shield they are considered helpless and thus coup de grace-able. Also they can never run away... ever. if they do they lose all bonuses and abilities and still have the level adjustment for absolutely nothing.
ElberethSilverleaf 03-02-07, 05:18 PM	The Spartans abilities were undeniably a byproduct of their culture. Here is some important info about their culture that should be included... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_pederasty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GREECE/SPARTA.HTM
Alcalientre 03-02-07, 05:29 PM	I would just say that any human that goes through Spartan military training gains, say, 2 fighter levels, and recieves appropriate feats. But I'm looking at this from a historical perspective, not a "OMG those guys in that movie killed all those monsters and Persians and there were only 300 of them!!!" perspective. Assuming that's where you got the insiration for this race. You may also have gotten the inspiration from God of War, and if so you must remember that Kratos, at least by the end of the game, is definitely epic. Still, 2 levels in fighter more than accounts for the superior military might of real Spartans. In a battle between level 2 fighters and level 1 warriors, there's not much question about which side will come out on top.
Fiendishfiend 03-02-07, 05:31 PM	WOOO!!spartan race!! So cool. I think its a little over powered, but the fact that a simple shatter spell can make him helpless long enough for a foe to coup de gra him, I guess its balanced.Or does he not become helpless when its destroyed,but only when its dropped. I'm confused.
Mr_Pants 03-02-07, 05:33 PM	yeah im not sure myself whether or not its balanced, im talking to obsidian about what to change about it though
Mr_Pants 03-02-07, 06:04 PM	I would just say that any human that goes through Spartan military training gains, say, 2 fighter levels, and recieves appropriate feats. But I'm looking at this from a historical perspective, not a "OMG those guys in that movie killed all those monsters and Persians and there were only 300 of them!!!" perspective. Assuming that's where you got the insiration for this race. You may also have gotten the inspiration from God of War, and if so you must remember that Kratos, at least by the end of the game, is definitely epic. Still, 2 levels in fighter more than accounts for the superior military might of real Spartans. In a battle between level 2 fighters and level 1 warriors, there's not much question about which side will come out on top. the "OMG those guys in that movie..." view could be renamed to fantastical view to make it not burn my eyes so much. and yes that is the viewpoint from the race was created. as i stated above spartans were descendants of hercules, something that i know is not true in reality
HomebrewedMonster 03-02-07, 08:09 PM	When you watch a movie trailer (I'm guessing you havn't read the graphic novel), do not take it as truth. The movie has been made fantasty as it was in the graphic novel. To make a spartan race please do some research on their "actual" history and realize that all the "racial feats" are from being hard campaign veterans that fought by the side of their king. Nice try, but its too much. For those that don't know it comes out next Friday 300 (http://300themovie.warnerbros.com/)
Mr_Pants 03-02-07, 08:12 PM	thx but i have read the comic, and im looking to tone down the race a lot. It is still not supposed to be realistic. I'll post an edited version later.
Mr_Pants 03-04-07, 12:29 AM	edited version is up, tell me what you think now
HomebrewedMonster 03-04-07, 01:10 AM	I have to give credit to Obsidian Rose for designing most of the race Spartans Traits: +4 Str +2 Con -2 Int Medium Size Base Land Speed: 30 Feet* Powerful Build Sure Martial Training: a Spartan’s martial training provides him with proficiency with all spears and all shields. Martial Training: Spartans recieve the Weapon Profiency for shortspear, spear, and long spear as well as shield profiency. Spear Affinity: a Spartan has exceptional training with spears and can throw any spear with a range increment of 15 feet. Spears can be wielded in one hand without penalty. With powerful build they should not be able to wield and two-handed weapon in one hand as well as it having an increased size. So instead of having a d8 shortspear with a shield they now get a 2d6 reach weapon in one hand? I don't think so. As for the range increment, this "race" can now wield and reach, 2d6, 15ft range increment weapon which they gain profiency with for free. This is over-powered. Shield Affinity: a Spartan becomes so attached to his shield that whenever he is disarmed of it or he drops he becomes helpless. In addition a Spartan can use a tower shield to grant cover to himself and one ally while still fighting. This doesn't really make sense. So a race of the greatest warriors can be coup de graced if they have their shield sundered or get surprised? So when they are walking around town are they helpless? Get rid of this. It is not going to lower the level adjustment. Never Run Away: while moving towards an enemy a Spartan’s movement increases to 40 feet, however when moving away from an enemy it is reduced to 5 feet. So the greatest tactical warriors of all time can not fall back and regroup effectively? This again doesn't seem to portrait them well. They do not move faster than a normal human, if they do its because all spartans are barbarian/fighter/warriors. Fighting with a Brother: a Spartan gains double the normal morale bonus when fighting with a fellow Spartan No, this is not balanced, there are far too many moral bonus spells that are amazing as it is, let alone doubling the effect. I would give them the Superior Flanking abilitiy: When flanking with a fellow spartan the bonus is increase from a +2 to a +4. Level Adjustment: 3? With powerful build, +6 physical, -2 mental is at least a +2, then with all the profiencies and other whacky abilities it is definately a 3. Spartan Racial Feats Spartans Never Lose [Spartan] [Fighter] Requirements: Spartan Race, Character Level 18 Benefit: If the character is outnumbered in a fight, multiply attack bonuses, damage, and shield bonus to armor class by the number of foes while dividing by the number of allies (including the character). This bonus is lost if the Spartan is caught flat-footed or helpless. Fight in the Shade [Spartan] [Fighter] Prerequisites: Phalanx Fighting, Spartan Race, Endurance, BAB 6 Benefit: When a Spartan receives attacks from over 100 archers while not engaged in melee combat, apply twice his shield modifier as an additional deflection bonus to armor class (stacks with all other bonuses). In addition, the Spartan is not fatigue while fighting under arrows thick enough to blacken the sky. Eat a Hearty Breakfast [General] Prerequisites: Endurance, Spartan Race Benefit: Whenever a Spartan goes into a battle with hopeless odds (DM’s approval), the Spartan gains the Fearful Presence ability of a dragon of equal HD. In addition, the Spartan gains +4 to attack, damage, and rolls to resist bull rush, overrun, trip, disarm, and sunder. Tonight We Dine in Hell [General] Prerequisites: Eat a Heart Breakfast Benefit: The Spartan doubles his hit points provided by hit dice. This does not provide additional hit dice, nor does it increase any other sources of hit points. The Spartan can never be brought back from the dead. Face of Sparta [General] [Fighter]: Prerequisites: Spartan Benefit: The Spartan gains a +4 to leadership in regards to followers when dealing with Spartans. Faceless Spartan [General] Prerequisites Face of Sparta Benefit: The Spartan can not be individually targeted by magic. Instead, randomly determine any Spartan as the target of the spell. so what do you think? I don't like the feats, they all have clunky mechanics and are wordly poorly so I'm not too sure what you are trying to get out of them. There are plenty of feats in Complete Warrior, Player's Handbook II, and Heroes of Battle that replicate the tactics and strategies of spartans. Those 300 spartans were at least warrior4/barbarian1/fighter1 and had phalanx fighter, combat expertise, and allied defense. When you combine that in a formation if you have two allies to your side you are gaining +17 to your armor class (+2 from phalanx fighter, +5 from your combat expertise, +5 from ally to the left, +5 from ally to the right...and yes dodge bonuses do stack). My take on the Spartans, its a template. Herculeus blooded A herculeus blooded is an inherited template that can be added to any humanoid or monsterous humanoid. A herculeus blooded creature uses all base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Size and type: As base creature Armor Class: Natural armor improves by 1. Special Qualities: A herculeus blooded creature has all the special qualities of the base create plus: Enduring Health: A herculeus' natural healing rate is doubled. Example: A 4th level fighter herculeus blooded would gain 8 hit points for 8 hours of sleep, 12 from full days bed rest, and 16 from a full days bed rest with care.. Stability: A herculeus blooded gains a +4 ability check to checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground. Saves: A herculeus blooded saves are as the base creature. Abilities: Increase the base creature as follows: Str +2, Dex +0, Con +2, Int +0, Wis +0, Cha +0 As is that's about a +1 LA, if you give it powerful its +2.
Mr_Pants 03-04-07, 02:41 AM	thanks for your input, by the way I did not make the feats or the shield and spear stuff. And the spear damage increase was not included in the edited version. and the superior flanking sounds like it would fit
Alucard7087824 03-04-07, 02:09 PM	the feat "Spartans Never Lose" seems massively overpowered. Ex.: Single Spartan enters fight with heavy steel shield against 40 opponents, AC becomes 100+, Attack bonus becomes 1140, and damage is multiplied by 40. until he gets down to about 3 opponents, he is going to have insane bonuses and damage and AC and will be untouchable. then it becomes an almost fair fight with him having an AC or around 50, an attack bonus of about 84, and 3 times damage. Could you explain how this feat is not completely broken?
Mr_Pants 03-04-07, 05:32 PM	the feat "Spartans Never Lose" seems massively overpowered. Ex.: Single Spartan enters fight with heavy steel shield against 40 opponents, AC becomes 100+, Attack bonus becomes 1140, and damage is multiplied by 40. until he gets down to about 3 opponents, he is going to have insane bonuses and damage and AC and will be untouchable. then it becomes an almost fair fight with him having an AC or around 50, an attack bonus of about 84, and 3 times damage. Could you explain how this feat is not completely broken? no i can't, its not my feat. The feats were designed by Obsidian Rose
obsidianrose 03-04-07, 05:38 PM	Spartans Never Lose was meant as a joke. It's a phrase that comes up a lot when we game, especially when we fight Spartans. It's to justify the fact that Spartans might actually by killable, but when I DM it makes me sad to see Spartans die. And it's to explain why Thermopylae actually worked out. The rest are relatively balanced compared to the major drawbacks