Spider Race, an alternate to dropping Cha? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spider Race, an alternate to dropping Cha? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Weiser_Cain
04-20-07, 12:15 AM Trying to shove a spider race onto D20.
I need some way to reflect the alieness of the race without dropping Cha since that hurts sorcerery and they are excellent sorcerers.
Also, what do you think the level adjustment should be for this.

-2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Con Plus web spinning (strong enough to climb and hold down an average human) and a poison bite(again of average strength)
I wanted to drop con further but wondered how that would affect play
Pangeon
04-20-07, 12:25 AM Give a penalty on Charisma based skills (Diplomacy, Bluff, etc.) against non-spider people. I'd recommend -2 to -4.

Your racial ability scores are fine as is. Dear lord, don't drop Con to -4, as that would make them virtually unplayable. (Casters have d4s, remember. A -2 Con basically makes those d2s.) I might even suggest changing the modifiers to -2 Str +2 Dex, but they're fine as is (just a little fragile.)

If those are their only abilities, they sound about LA +0. I might drop the poison, give them a climb speed and a few skill mods, and you're golden.

Overall, I think the idea of a race of spider people is pretty cool. You should post more on them.
Weiser_Cain
04-20-07, 01:19 AM Forgot about skill hits.
Fragile is what I'm going for as a contrast to the scorpion people I'm working on.
Nadaka
04-20-07, 02:06 AM I have a spider race for a d20 future game, let me see if I can get it googled... Nope, and my own copy is on a broken computer. :( oh well.

One of their racial features was multipurpose webbing that could be used to create web traps, bind grappled creatures, or seal starship hull breaches (the original purpose that they were engineered for). IIRC I gave them 1+con bonus uses per day and could pick any of the three effects.
Weiser_Cain
04-20-07, 03:21 AM I'm not limiting it's use just the speed that it can be spun, fast enough to repel. All it's 'effects' are always in play though of course most don't affect the race.
okaynowa
04-20-07, 09:23 AM This is entirely a personal opinion, but I dislike skill penalties for player character races because they seem to easy to avoid. If a player never invests ranks in a penalized skill, what does the penalty really accomplish?

To emphasize the "alienness" of this spider race without tweaking their Charisma, consider this idea as a racial quality:
Creepy Crawly (Ex): Any non-arachnid NPCs who deal with these spider people can only have an initial attitude of "Unfriendly" or "Hostile" (see "Influencing NPC attitudes" under the diplomacy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm) skill). So, a spider character who doesn't invest in social skills will have to accept that people flat-out don't like him; but a player character who bothers to take ranks in Diplomacy or Bluff can be the exception who changes their minds. The important principle of this quality is that the penalty kicks in without any action from the player, but the player can take steps to overcome the penalty.
Nghtpunisher
04-20-07, 01:52 PM did you ever think of giving them natural AC bonus? i mean they are similar to some other insect races i saw a few b4 that had like ac+2-3 you could use that to enhance them as for the CHA mod you could make their spells (of any class) use WIS or INT.
i also like the ideal of the other races always having first impression of uneasiness

(EDIT) you would use the int or cha as THEIR casting but to save the spell the opposing character would still use the true save
Dead_Weasel
04-20-07, 06:25 PM Never, ever, ever give a race -4 to Con, regardless of what class it's intended to play as; it makes them extraordinarily squishable. Just give your scorpion race extra Con and natural armor, and bump up their LA if necessary - also, keep in mind that poison DCs are based off of Con.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Weiser_Cain 04-20-07, 12:15 AM	Trying to shove a spider race onto D20. I need some way to reflect the alieness of the race without dropping Cha since that hurts sorcerery and they are excellent sorcerers. Also, what do you think the level adjustment should be for this. -2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Con Plus web spinning (strong enough to climb and hold down an average human) and a poison bite(again of average strength) I wanted to drop con further but wondered how that would affect play
Pangeon 04-20-07, 12:25 AM	Give a penalty on Charisma based skills (Diplomacy, Bluff, etc.) against non-spider people. I'd recommend -2 to -4. Your racial ability scores are fine as is. Dear lord, don't drop Con to -4, as that would make them virtually unplayable. (Casters have d4s, remember. A -2 Con basically makes those d2s.) I might even suggest changing the modifiers to -2 Str +2 Dex, but they're fine as is (just a little fragile.) If those are their only abilities, they sound about LA +0. I might drop the poison, give them a climb speed and a few skill mods, and you're golden. Overall, I think the idea of a race of spider people is pretty cool. You should post more on them.
Weiser_Cain 04-20-07, 01:19 AM	Forgot about skill hits. Fragile is what I'm going for as a contrast to the scorpion people I'm working on.
Nadaka 04-20-07, 02:06 AM	I have a spider race for a d20 future game, let me see if I can get it googled... Nope, and my own copy is on a broken computer. :( oh well. One of their racial features was multipurpose webbing that could be used to create web traps, bind grappled creatures, or seal starship hull breaches (the original purpose that they were engineered for). IIRC I gave them 1+con bonus uses per day and could pick any of the three effects.
Weiser_Cain 04-20-07, 03:21 AM	I'm not limiting it's use just the speed that it can be spun, fast enough to repel. All it's 'effects' are always in play though of course most don't affect the race.
okaynowa 04-20-07, 09:23 AM	This is entirely a personal opinion, but I dislike skill penalties for player character races because they seem to easy to avoid. If a player never invests ranks in a penalized skill, what does the penalty really accomplish? To emphasize the "alienness" of this spider race without tweaking their Charisma, consider this idea as a racial quality: Creepy Crawly (Ex): Any non-arachnid NPCs who deal with these spider people can only have an initial attitude of "Unfriendly" or "Hostile" (see "Influencing NPC attitudes" under the diplomacy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm) skill). So, a spider character who doesn't invest in social skills will have to accept that people flat-out don't like him; but a player character who bothers to take ranks in Diplomacy or Bluff can be the exception who changes their minds. The important principle of this quality is that the penalty kicks in without any action from the player, but the player can take steps to overcome the penalty.
Nghtpunisher 04-20-07, 01:52 PM	did you ever think of giving them natural AC bonus? i mean they are similar to some other insect races i saw a few b4 that had like ac+2-3 you could use that to enhance them as for the CHA mod you could make their spells (of any class) use WIS or INT. i also like the ideal of the other races always having first impression of uneasiness (EDIT) you would use the int or cha as THEIR casting but to save the spell the opposing character would still use the true save
Dead_Weasel 04-20-07, 06:25 PM	Never, ever, ever give a race -4 to Con, regardless of what class it's intended to play as; it makes them extraordinarily squishable. Just give your scorpion race extra Con and natural armor, and bump up their LA if necessary - also, keep in mind that poison DCs are based off of Con.