Spiker Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spiker Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
morfeasrev
10-08-07, 08:43 AM Can a Spiker (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040706a) use her Natural Spikes (Ex) on her Unarmed Strikes with Flurry of Blows???
war_thog
10-08-07, 09:09 AM No Spikes.
morfeasrev
10-08-07, 09:28 AM A) Will I still be able to use them when not using Flurry of Blows??

B) If I go 15lvl Monk/5lvl Kensai and get improved natural attack how much will my unarmed dmg (without Flurry of Blows) be?
war_thog
10-09-07, 09:40 AM I don't know, you calculate it.

BTW apparently natural weapons can be used with flurry. However spikers spikes count as spiked armour, so theyre still out.
metalmayhem80110
10-09-07, 10:57 PM Ummm, I'd like for you to explain to me why they can't use their spikes during a flurry? Than I'd like for you to justify, in-game, no mechanics why they don't get the damage?

That is like saying ok, I flurry of blows the guy. But because I'm using my flurry these guantlets don't help....
Sexy_ferret
10-10-07, 12:29 AM Because you can only Flurry with unarmed attacks and special monk weapons? Are the spiked and unarmed attack or a special monk weapon?
war_thog
10-10-07, 01:35 AM Ummm, I'd like for you to explain to me why they can't use their spikes during a flurry? Than I'd like for you to justify, in-game, no mechanics why they don't get the damage?

That is like saying ok, I flurry of blows the guy. But because I'm using my flurry these guantlets don't help....

Flurry of blows can only be performed using unarmed strikes and special monk weapons.
Spikers spikes count as armour spikes. These are not monk weapons. So it cant be done.

And no you cannot use a flurry of blow while wearing gauntlets.
They are not special monk weapons.
Darth Syntax
10-10-07, 10:10 PM Despite the fact that the Spiker's spines count as armor spikes I would still imagine that they would add to the flurry of blows damage for one very simple reason: they are part of the Spiker's hands. Spiker's are born with these spines, they are as much a part of their body as their fingers, thus a Spikeer using nothing but their natural spines is unarmed. Its really the only logical way to deal with it.
metalmayhem80110
10-11-07, 03:04 AM Darth Syntax is right.

And war thong... Just no... I wasn't asking for a rules clearing up of guantlets and flurry... I was using it as an example...
war_thog
10-11-07, 09:22 AM Certainly seemed like you were. You wanted game mechanics.
That seems to me like were after rules.

If you want IRL mechanics, thats another question.

And yes it would make sense, but no it doesnt apply because thats not how the rules work.

Logical approaches to dnd do not work if you want to follow the rules of the game.
You either go with real life, or the rules. The 2 dont combine well.

Either play by the rules, or house rule it your own way, up to you. However that then affects game balance and all manner of crap comes up.
They arent listed as a bonus to unarmed strikes because that is more powerful than having them as armour spikes. This is part of how the race is balanced.

Again, go ahead and change it if you want, just remember that you are unbalancing the race.

Oh and the reason why spiked gauntlets wouldnt apply to flurry is that you can flurry without hands. You kick, headbutt, etc.
Having gauntlets on your hands wont help this.
Thus for rules simplicity, no spikes for you!!
metalmayhem80110
10-12-07, 01:46 AM Lol I know mechanically it shouldn't work but still...

And on you're kick jump headbutt etc. theory... Only one problem, the spiker is ENTIRELY covered in spikes.... So it wouldn't really make a difference.
Ninja_Ferret
10-12-07, 01:56 AM So since its covered in spikes wouldnt someone who makes an unarmed attack against you take damage also? Or tryed to grapple you?
metalmayhem80110
10-12-07, 03:39 AM Yep :D They would take damage, that is one of the neat things about spikers.
Captain_Kobold
10-12-07, 07:45 AM So since its covered in spikes wouldnt someone who makes an unarmed attack against you take damage also? Or tryed to grapple you?

No. Armour spikes (and by extension, the spiker spikes) don't do that.
It does however mean that in a grapple, you can make a straight grapple check to inflict your spike damage on your opponent, even if you were not armed with a light weapon.

As to the monk, your unarmed strike damage will usually be higher than your spike damage, so you are likely to be better off using unarmed strike. As written, you couldn't flurry with your spikes unless you picked up the feat that allows you to flurry with a non-monk weapon.

It would not be an unreasonable houserule to allow Spiker monks to do Piercing damage with their unarmed strikes however. Even if that is almost giving them a free feat.
If that seems unreasonable, allow them to do piercing damage, and require them to take the feat in order to do bludgeoning damage with their unarmed strike.
Ninja_Ferret
10-12-07, 10:53 AM Captain_Kobold I was being sarcastic. People keep saying that since spikes are all over their body then their unarmed strike should have spike damage also. :-p
war_thog
10-12-07, 10:14 PM Yep :D They would take damage, that is one of the neat things about spikers.

Good stuff.

Ok Im going to walk away and come back when you stop being an ass.
morfeasrev
10-13-07, 04:21 AM Lets assume that a spiker monk can use her spikes to her unarmed dmg.
lvl1 non-spiker (i.e. human) monk unarmed dmg: 1d6
lvl1 spiker monk unarmed dmg: 1d6+1d6(spikes)

Moreover spikers have natural armor,damage reduction and acid resistance.
So I think that we should not apply the spikes dmg to the unarmed strikes because that would make a spiker monk OVERPOWERED.
It is double damage on lvl1 !!!!
Captain_Kobold
10-13-07, 10:28 AM Captain_Kobold I was being sarcastic. People keep saying that since spikes are all over their body then their unarmed strike should have spike damage also. :-p

Ooopsie. Apologies for underestimating you. I find that kind of nuance hard to pick up in type, as opposed to actual conversation. :doh:

Lets assume that a spiker monk can use her spikes to her unarmed dmg.

Why on earth would you make that assumption?
And yes, I'm aware that you are doing this to point out how wrong it would be, but I don't think anyone would actually consider that you could do this.

Would they?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
morfeasrev 10-08-07, 08:43 AM	Can a Spiker (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040706a) use her Natural Spikes (Ex) on her Unarmed Strikes with Flurry of Blows???
war_thog 10-08-07, 09:09 AM	No Spikes.
morfeasrev 10-08-07, 09:28 AM	A) Will I still be able to use them when not using Flurry of Blows?? B) If I go 15lvl Monk/5lvl Kensai and get improved natural attack how much will my unarmed dmg (without Flurry of Blows) be?
war_thog 10-09-07, 09:40 AM	I don't know, you calculate it. BTW apparently natural weapons can be used with flurry. However spikers spikes count as spiked armour, so theyre still out.
metalmayhem80110 10-09-07, 10:57 PM	Ummm, I'd like for you to explain to me why they can't use their spikes during a flurry? Than I'd like for you to justify, in-game, no mechanics why they don't get the damage? That is like saying ok, I flurry of blows the guy. But because I'm using my flurry these guantlets don't help....
Sexy_ferret 10-10-07, 12:29 AM	Because you can only Flurry with unarmed attacks and special monk weapons? Are the spiked and unarmed attack or a special monk weapon?
war_thog 10-10-07, 01:35 AM	Ummm, I'd like for you to explain to me why they can't use their spikes during a flurry? Than I'd like for you to justify, in-game, no mechanics why they don't get the damage? That is like saying ok, I flurry of blows the guy. But because I'm using my flurry these guantlets don't help.... Flurry of blows can only be performed using unarmed strikes and special monk weapons. Spikers spikes count as armour spikes. These are not monk weapons. So it cant be done. And no you cannot use a flurry of blow while wearing gauntlets. They are not special monk weapons.
Darth Syntax 10-10-07, 10:10 PM	Despite the fact that the Spiker's spines count as armor spikes I would still imagine that they would add to the flurry of blows damage for one very simple reason: they are part of the Spiker's hands. Spiker's are born with these spines, they are as much a part of their body as their fingers, thus a Spikeer using nothing but their natural spines is unarmed. Its really the only logical way to deal with it.
metalmayhem80110 10-11-07, 03:04 AM	Darth Syntax is right. And war thong... Just no... I wasn't asking for a rules clearing up of guantlets and flurry... I was using it as an example...
war_thog 10-11-07, 09:22 AM	Certainly seemed like you were. You wanted game mechanics. That seems to me like were after rules. If you want IRL mechanics, thats another question. And yes it would make sense, but no it doesnt apply because thats not how the rules work. Logical approaches to dnd do not work if you want to follow the rules of the game. You either go with real life, or the rules. The 2 dont combine well. Either play by the rules, or house rule it your own way, up to you. However that then affects game balance and all manner of crap comes up. They arent listed as a bonus to unarmed strikes because that is more powerful than having them as armour spikes. This is part of how the race is balanced. Again, go ahead and change it if you want, just remember that you are unbalancing the race. Oh and the reason why spiked gauntlets wouldnt apply to flurry is that you can flurry without hands. You kick, headbutt, etc. Having gauntlets on your hands wont help this. Thus for rules simplicity, no spikes for you!!
metalmayhem80110 10-12-07, 01:46 AM	Lol I know mechanically it shouldn't work but still... And on you're kick jump headbutt etc. theory... Only one problem, the spiker is ENTIRELY covered in spikes.... So it wouldn't really make a difference.
Ninja_Ferret 10-12-07, 01:56 AM	So since its covered in spikes wouldnt someone who makes an unarmed attack against you take damage also? Or tryed to grapple you?
metalmayhem80110 10-12-07, 03:39 AM	Yep :D They would take damage, that is one of the neat things about spikers.
Captain_Kobold 10-12-07, 07:45 AM	So since its covered in spikes wouldnt someone who makes an unarmed attack against you take damage also? Or tryed to grapple you? No. Armour spikes (and by extension, the spiker spikes) don't do that. It does however mean that in a grapple, you can make a straight grapple check to inflict your spike damage on your opponent, even if you were not armed with a light weapon. As to the monk, your unarmed strike damage will usually be higher than your spike damage, so you are likely to be better off using unarmed strike. As written, you couldn't flurry with your spikes unless you picked up the feat that allows you to flurry with a non-monk weapon. It would not be an unreasonable houserule to allow Spiker monks to do Piercing damage with their unarmed strikes however. Even if that is almost giving them a free feat. If that seems unreasonable, allow them to do piercing damage, and require them to take the feat in order to do bludgeoning damage with their unarmed strike.
Ninja_Ferret 10-12-07, 10:53 AM	Captain_Kobold I was being sarcastic. People keep saying that since spikes are all over their body then their unarmed strike should have spike damage also. :-p
war_thog 10-12-07, 10:14 PM	Yep :D They would take damage, that is one of the neat things about spikers. Good stuff. Ok Im going to walk away and come back when you stop being an ass.
morfeasrev 10-13-07, 04:21 AM	Lets assume that a spiker monk can use her spikes to her unarmed dmg. lvl1 non-spiker (i.e. human) monk unarmed dmg: 1d6 lvl1 spiker monk unarmed dmg: 1d6+1d6(spikes) Moreover spikers have natural armor,damage reduction and acid resistance. So I think that we should not apply the spikes dmg to the unarmed strikes because that would make a spiker monk OVERPOWERED. It is double damage on lvl1 !!!!
Captain_Kobold 10-13-07, 10:28 AM	Captain_Kobold I was being sarcastic. People keep saying that since spikes are all over their body then their unarmed strike should have spike damage also. :-p Ooopsie. Apologies for underestimating you. I find that kind of nuance hard to pick up in type, as opposed to actual conversation. :doh: Lets assume that a spiker monk can use her spikes to her unarmed dmg. Why on earth would you make that assumption? And yes, I'm aware that you are doing this to point out how wrong it would be, but I don't think anyone would actually consider that you could do this. Would they?