| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Danvac12-11-06, 07:22 PM | One of my characters says it is possible for him to make a race. He claims the race to be "super elves". He's one of those people who can talk you into anything, and then when he leaves you're like " Why did I do that!". Is it possible for a charecter to make a race?? |
| IdleAltruism12-11-06, 07:25 PM | Only if the DM allows it. And they are called wood elves from the MM they have +2str. |
| Khatoblepas12-11-06, 07:27 PM | No. Only deities can make 'races', and even then only greater deities like Corellon Latherian or Gruumsh, and they have to be deities of the race itself. Some lesser deities can modify races, like Lolth does to make failed drow into driders. But these are DEITIES. Not playable characters - I'd hate to see the LA of Divine Rank 0. o.o |
| The_Shaman12-11-06, 07:30 PM | What, should a rabbit with divine rank 0 be epic??? Anyway, yes: wood elves (a.k.a. copper elves in Faerun) get +2 to strength and -2 to intelligence in addition to the normal elven ability modifiers. All in all an ok trade, just make sure you don't use the old version that takes a further -2 to charisma. |
| Drachasor12-11-06, 07:46 PM | Make a new elf subrace? I don't see why anyone would need to. IIRC, it is a fact that no matter what you do or how good you are, there is an Elven subrace that is better at it. Some sort of divine law. -Drachasor |
| questionc12-11-06, 09:19 PM | Make a new elf subrace? I don't see why anyone would need to. There's a serious shortage of elven sub-races. They could use about fifteen more. |
| Newpaintbrush12-11-06, 09:58 PM | There's a serious shortage of elven sub-races. They could use about fifteen more. Lol. ? |
| AZNsupermarket12-11-06, 10:25 PM | If he wants to play an elven sub-race have him pick an official one off this list: Elves High Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), players handbook pg.15 Aquatic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft. (swim 40 ft)., fighter, humanoid (elf, aquatic), monster manual pg.103 Artic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Str, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.9 Desert Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.12 Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.17 Forestlord Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., Treewalk (su), sorcerer, humanoid (elf), dragon magic pg.8 Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 Jungle Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.14 Kagonesti: +2 Dex -2 Int -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), dragonlance campaign setting pg.18 Lesser Drow: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., (Cha 10 or better dancing lights, daze, touch of fatigue 1/day), wizard (male) and cleric (female), humanoid (elf), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Moon Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.13 Qualinesti: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), ), dragonlance campaign setting pg.19 Painted Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., druid, humanoid (elf), sandstorm pg.42 Silvanesti: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), ), dragonlance campaign setting pg.20 Snow Elf: +2 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), frostburn pg.34 Star Elf: +2 Cha -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., otherworldly touch (su), extraplanar (su), bard, humanoid (elf), unapproachable east pg.10 Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15 Wild Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., sorcerer, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 Wood Elf: +2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con -2 Int, meduim, 30 ft., ranger, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 A few more: Fey'ri Drow Avariel "lesser" Fey'ri EDIT: Psionic Elf EDIT: Deepwyrm Drow |
| Danvac12-12-06, 08:43 PM | Thank you. He has just informed me that he will use the wood elf template. Your feedback has been greatly APRECIATED. |
| Vestigial_Thumb12-12-06, 09:03 PM | <snip> Lousy stinking Elves. Mutating all over the place. Ruining my life. |
| Danvac12-12-06, 09:14 PM | Lousy stinking Elves. Mutating all over the place. Ruining my life. I know. Its crazy. There are all sorts of elven subraces and everyone needs to come up with ANOTHER. I saw a race in manual of the planes called the Faer elf , like a "half celstial elf" according to the manual of the planes, and of course naturally one of my characters wants a character in that race. ( for the record: I said no) |
| Elemmakil12-12-06, 09:28 PM | Lousy stinking Elves. Mutating all over the place. Ruining my life. Actually, there are more dwarf subraces (20 as opposed to 19) in the Master Race List. Of course, that's not including the 6 other subraces in AZNsupermarket's post. There are also other dwarven subraces, too. Look at the deurgar and psionic deurgar. Those aren't listed, although Dragonlance's Dark Dwarves are. Dark dwarves have favored class: rouge, though, so I don't think that they are identical to the deurgar. Deurgar aren't particularly red. Lousy stinking dwarves. Mutating all over the place. Ruining my life.:D |
| Vestigial_Thumb12-12-06, 09:45 PM | Lousy stinking dwarves. Mutating all over the place. Ruining my life.:D But Dwarves are cooler. They're all drunk, rowdy and operating heavy weaponry all the while. It's really dangerous which is synonymous with 'very fun'. Dwarves are also short versions of Chuck Norris. Basically Chuck in high gravity (probably from living under the surface, closer to the source of the gravity). |
| Kresalak12-12-06, 09:58 PM | Gravity gets weaker if you go underground... |
| Izzak12-12-06, 10:04 PM | As far as i know gnomes only have a few mutant cousins. Maybe halflings have quite a few. |
| GhostStepper12-12-06, 10:09 PM | Gravity gets weaker if you go underground... Actually i gets weaker the farther you are from the source, so it would be stronger underground nearer to the gravitational center of the planet. Of course i cant tell if you were being sarcastic or not. lol |
| Artector12-12-06, 10:11 PM | Gravity gets weaker if you go underground... Only below a certain point. Before that it gets stronger. Go Physics! I say we should develop 1000000001 human subraces to represent the screwy way evolution happens in DND. Thusly 20+ elven subraces might actually exist. |
| No_Lynch12-12-06, 10:19 PM | If he wants to play an elven sub-race have him pick an official one off this list: Elves High Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), players handbook pg.15 Aquatic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft. (swim 40 ft)., fighter, humanoid (elf, aquatic), monster manual pg.103 Artic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Str, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.9 Desert Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.12 Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.17 Forestlord Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., Treewalk (su), sorcerer, humanoid (elf), dragon magic pg.8 Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 Jungle Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.14 Kagonesti: +2 Dex -2 Int -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), dragonlance campaign setting pg.18 Lesser Drow: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., (Cha 10 or better dancing lights, daze, touch of fatigue 1/day), wizard (male) and cleric (female), humanoid (elf), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Moon Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.13 Qualinesti: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), ), dragonlance campaign setting pg.19 Painted Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., druid, humanoid (elf), sandstorm pg.42 Silvanesti: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), ), dragonlance campaign setting pg.20 Snow Elf: +2 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), frostburn pg.34 Star Elf: +2 Cha -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., otherworldly touch (su), extraplanar (su), bard, humanoid (elf), unapproachable east pg.10 Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15 Wild Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., sorcerer, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 Wood Elf: +2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con -2 Int, meduim, 30 ft., ranger, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 A few more: Fey'ri Drow Avariel "lesser" Fey'ri EDIT: Psionic Elf EDIT: Deepwyrm Drow You forgot half-elf, half-drow, etc. |
| Qube12-13-06, 02:33 AM | No. Only deities can make 'races', and even then only greater deities like Corellon Latherian or Gruumsh, and they have to be deities of the race itself. Some lesser deities can modify races, like Lolth does to make failed drow into driders. But these are DEITIES. Not playable characters - I'd hate to see the LA of Divine Rank 0. o.o in 3.0 that was an example of an epic spell (epic handbook) |
| Roivas12-13-06, 04:57 AM | Also several monsters in the manuals owe their existance to magical experimentation, owlbears come to mind. There are thousands of examples of races that spawned from mindflayer experiments and some simply spontaniously come into being through areas of wild magic, nevermind the wizards trying to breed the ideal servants. So a character trying to create a new type of creature hardly requires ceity level premission and I've never heard the rule that wizards had divine rank 0 [though sometimes it seems that is the case]. If a player wanted his character to be the father of some strange new race if he took the time in my game I'd probably allow it, of course I'd still be quite free to twist it for my own purposes. |
| Vestigial_Thumb12-13-06, 09:48 AM | Actually i gets weaker the farther you are from the source, so it would be stronger underground nearer to the gravitational center of the planet. In Kresalak's defense, his point makes sense. The Material Plane is exactly that, a plane. So theoretically, if the surface is the source of the gravity, going below it would make it weaker. That's why I always assume the source of the gravity is magic. Go Magic! Pull us down like an anchor! |
| Richmud12-13-06, 10:56 AM | I say we should develop 1000000001 human subraces to represent the screwy way evolution happens in DND. Thusly 20+ elven subraces might actually exist. Ever sence races of destiny new humans have been popping up perodically. For example the silverbrows in dragon magic and the karsites in Tome of magic. On a completely different note there is the origin of species epic spell for making new races |
| Danvac12-13-06, 03:30 PM | On that topic, when one thinks about it aren't there too many creatures in Dungeons and Dragons? How could all of those monsters inhabit the material plane? |
| Richmud12-13-06, 03:34 PM | On that topic, when one thinks about it aren't there too many creatures in Dungeons and Dragons? How could all of those monsters inhabit the material plane? A: Not all the monsters inhabit the material plane B: The material plane can be any size the DM desires (even infinite) leaving plenty of room for anything and everything |
| Danvac12-13-06, 03:36 PM | A: Not all the monsters inhabit the material plane B: The material plane can be any size the DM desires (even infinite) leaving plenty of room for anything and everything True But how could all of those races have evolved. Sometimes I think people wrote monster manuals 2 and 3 just to get more money. |
| GhostStepper12-13-06, 03:43 PM | In Kresalak's defense, his point makes sense. The Material Plane is exactly that, a plane. So theoretically, if the surface is the source of the gravity, going below it would make it weaker. That's why I always assume the source of the gravity is magic. Go Magic! Pull us down like an anchor! Lol. Well i suppose if your DnD world is literally flat then yes. Somehow i dont think the term "plane" in plane of existence means that the dimension is flat though. Of course if gravity is magic in DnD then any time you make an antimagic field youd also activate a levitation spell! True But how could all of those races have evolved. They wouldnt have to evolve since this is DnD. Some divine guy with a beard living in sky could have sculpted them out of clay...Or some mad wizard performed some arcane experiments. No need for science here. |
| Danvac12-13-06, 03:47 PM | They wouldnt have to evolve since this is DnD. Some divine guy with a beard living in sky could have sculpted them out of clay...Or some mad wizard performed some arcane experiments. No need for science here. My Brain cannot process that. Also, while we're on the subject of too many, what about deities! There are too many of those too! IF every race has a pantheon, plus the cultures of our world let's see thats bout, 999999999999 deities!!! |
| AZNsupermarket12-13-06, 03:47 PM | You forgot half-elf, half-drow, etc. I was debating whether to include them, here they are, just in case you wanted it: Half-Elves Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), players handbook pg.18 Aquatic Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft. (swim 15 ft.), any, humanoid (elf, human), stormwrack pg.45 Artic Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcane pg.10 Desert Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.12 Deepwyrm Half-Drow: none, medium, detect magic 3/day, disguise self 1/day, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human, dragonblood), dragon magic pg.6 Fire Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.18 Forestlord Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., Treewalk (su), sorcerer, humanoid (elf, human), dragon magic pg.8 Half-Drow: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), races of faerun pg.62 Half-Human Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf, human), dungeon master’s guide pg.171 Jungle Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.14 |
| Danvac12-13-06, 03:50 PM | I was debating whether to include them, here they are, just in case you wanted it: Half-Elves Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), players handbook pg.18 Aquatic Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft. (swim 15 ft.), any, humanoid (elf, human), stormwrack pg.45 Artic Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcane pg.10 Desert Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.12 Deepwyrm Half-Drow: none, medium, detect magic 3/day, disguise self 1/day, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human, dragonblood), dragon magic pg.6 Fire Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.18 Forestlord Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., Treewalk (su), sorcerer, humanoid (elf, human), dragon magic pg.8 Half-Drow: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), races of faerun pg.62 Half-Human Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf, human), dungeon master’s guide pg.171 Jungle Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.14 Aren't half elves a different race?? How many deties.....too many to make that many races. |
| Richmud12-13-06, 04:05 PM | My Brain cannot process that. Given a sufficiently large plane it would be possible for each type of elf to have evolved from a single elven race that traveled to different locations settled there and evolved accordingly. Similarly many of the other races and monsters could have evolved in different areas to fill the necessary niches. It is important to keep in mind that magic would alter the evolution of several species of creatures. For example take the displacer beast likely evolved from panthers which become subterranean and began absorbing magic to gain there special form of natural protection, the tentacles evolving to improve reach and continue to make it difficult for the beasts exact location to be determined by where its attacking from Aren't half elves a different race?? How many deties.....too many to make that many races. Half elves are crossbreeds, the gods are not involved with them its what happens when a human and the appropriate type of elf produce an offspring together. Its also important to note that the common method for determining species separation (namely can the two creatures breed and create a viable creature that can also breed with others of its kind) doesn't apply. This is best proven by the dragons who are capable of generating viable offspring with most other species, these offspring can then breed with each other or one of the parent races |
| AZNsupermarket12-13-06, 04:19 PM | Aren't half elves a different race?? How many deties.....too many to make that many races. to be fair, I'll put this in bit of a prospective: Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), players handbook pg.18 Standard Half-Elf Aquatic Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft. (swim 15 ft.), any, humanoid (elf, human), stormwrack pg.45 Half-Drow: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), races of faerun pg.62 Aquatic Elves and Drow are different enough from regular Elves to need their own half-races Half-Human Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf, human), dungeon master’s guide pg.171 Just an example race DMG (not a "real" race) Artic Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcane pg.10 Desert Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.12 Fire Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.18 Jungle Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.14 Unearthed Arcana put out environmental/elemental themed variants on all the standard races Forestlord Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., Treewalk (su), sorcerer, humanoid (elf, human), dragon magic pg.8 Deepwyrm Half-Drow: none, medium, detect magic 3/day, disguise self 1/day, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human, dragonblood), dragon magic pg.6 Dragon Magic put out dragon-themed variants on all the standard races |
| Rowan_Whispercloak12-13-06, 04:33 PM | You left out the Avarial. +4 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis Flight. I think there more subraced for many of the races that didn't make it past 2nd ed though. To explain the entire thread: http://llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target46.html |
| AZNsupermarket12-13-06, 04:51 PM | You left out the Avarial. +4 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis Flight. Avariel It was there, I just didn't give the ability adjustments of elves with level adjustment. To explain the entire thread: http://llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target46.html Awesome poster :rofl: :heehee |
| The_Shaman12-13-06, 05:46 PM | Yeah, classical. BTW how many dwarven races are there, overall? I'm not sure they'd be more than 8, even counting those in 2nd edition D&D such as gully or sundered dwarves. A-ny-way, back to the OP - for strength, I'd recommend you to look for a template. A feral (Savage Species) wild elf can be a unique character, and if you slightly improve the half-dragon template (it's a bit weak for a LA+3, to be honest - a repeatable breath weapon that scales with HD would be much better) it could also work just fine. |
| AZNsupermarket12-13-06, 08:27 PM | Yeah, classical. BTW how many dwarven races are there, overall? I'm not sure they'd be more than 8. Actually there is about as many dwarven sub-races as elven (21 dwarven sub-races compared to 25 elven sub-races). Hill Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), players handbook pg.14 Aquatic Dwarf: +2 Con +2 Str -4 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft. (swim 20 ft)., fighter, humanoid (dwarf, aquatic), unearthed arcana pg.7 Artic Dwarf: +2 Con +2 Str -4 Dex-2 Cha, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), unearthed arcana pg.9 Badlands Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft. fighter, humanoid (dwarf), sandstrom pg.42 Dark Dwarf: +2 Con -4 Cha, medium, 20 ft., rouge, humanoid (dwarf), dragonlance campaign setting pg.14 Deep Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft., Fighter, humanoid (dwarf), monster manual pg.92 Desert Dwarf: -2 Dex +2 Con, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), unearthed arcana pg.11 Dream Dwarf: -2 Dex +2 Con, medium, 20 ft., Dream sight (su), druid, humanoid (dwarf), races of stone pg.88 Earth Dwarf: +2 Str +2 Con -2 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf, earth), unearthed arcana pg.16 Fireblood Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf, dragonblood), dragon magic pg.7 Glacier Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), frostburn pg.34 Gold Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Dex, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), dungeon master's guide pg.171 Gully Dwarf: +2 Dex +2 Con -4 Int -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., rouge, humanoid (dwarf), dragonlance campaign setting pg.15 Jungle Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft., ranger, humanoid (dwarf), unearthed arcana pg.14 Korobokuru: +2 Con -2 Int, small, 20 ft., barbarian, humanoid (dwarf), oriental adventures pg.12 Lesser Duergar: +2 Con -4 Cha, medium, 20 ft., enlarge person/1 day (only works on Lesser Duergars), fighter, humanoid (dwarf), player’s guide to faerun pg.190 Mountain Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), monster manual pg.93 Shield Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), forgotten realms pg.13 Seacliff Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), stormwrack pg.44 Wild Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Cha, small, 20 ft., barbarian, humanoid (dwarf), races of faerun pg.23 some more: Psionic Dwarf Druegar |
| Kresalak12-13-06, 09:39 PM | Actually i gets weaker the farther you are from the source, so it would be stronger underground nearer to the gravitational center of the planet. Of course i cant tell if you were being sarcastic or not. lol Err... No. The source of gravity is not the center of the planet, it's the planet itself. At the surface, you have the greatest amount of mass between you and the center of that mass, while being as close as possible. In the center of the earth, there is no noticable gravity. Or rather, there is, but you're being pulled equally from all sides by the mass that surrounds you. You'll be dead, but you'll float. And then melt. Artector is correct, because I forgot about the crust. Damn heterogeneous objects... |
| Vagrond12-13-06, 11:51 PM | My favourite dwarf subrace- the Chaos Dwarfs from Warhammer. |
| Vestigial_Thumb12-14-06, 10:22 AM | Damn heterogeneous objects... Just remember that it's not your fault. These things happen. |
| Danvac12-14-06, 05:54 PM | My favourite dwarf subrace- the Chaos Dwarfs from Warhammer. What about Chaos gnomes. Speaking of gnome subraces, how many are there Oh! and AZNsupermarket, can you quote your sources? |
| Danvac12-14-06, 05:56 PM | Given a sufficiently large plane it would be possible for each type of elf to have evolved from a single elven race that traveled to different locations settled there and evolved accordingly. Similarly many of the other races and monsters could have evolved in different areas to fill the necessary niches. It is important to keep in mind that magic would alter the evolution of several species of creatures. For example take the displacer beast likely evolved from panthers which become subterranean and began absorbing magic to gain there special form of natural protection, the tentacles evolving to improve reach and continue to make it difficult for the beasts exact location to be determined by where its attacking from My brain still cannot process that. Working on it. |
| Richmud12-14-06, 06:10 PM | My brain still cannot process that. Hmm...okay fine how about this: A wizard did it (using the origin of species epic spell if you need more information on how) |
| AZNsupermarket12-14-06, 11:19 PM | What about Chaos gnomes. Speaking of gnome subraces, how many are there Oh! and AZNsupermarket, can you quote your sources? Master Race List (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10002276#post10002276) |
| Vagrond12-14-06, 11:28 PM | What about Chaos gnomes. Haha, they don't exist, no gnomes in Warhammer. |
| Richmud12-15-06, 11:00 PM | Haha, they don't exist, no gnomes in Warhammer. But chaos gnomes do exist in D&D |
| InterSilva12-16-06, 12:17 AM | No. Only deities can make 'races', and even then only greater deities like Corellon Latherian or Gruumsh, and they have to be deities of the race itself. Some lesser deities can modify races, like Lolth does to make failed drow into driders. But these are DEITIES. Not playable characters - I'd hate to see the LA of Divine Rank 0. o.o Actually, I remember reading somewhere that it worked out to around +6. I could be way off, though. |
| Danvac12-18-06, 06:30 PM | Nice. I like the master race list. Now the player I was talking about says he hires 1000 wood elves and storms the stronghold of the diabolical villan. He even has the money to pay for it (I checked!). What do I do? |
| AZNsupermarket12-18-06, 07:15 PM | Nice. I like the master race list. Thanks. I appreciate that. Now the player I was talking about says he hires 1000 wood elves and storms the stronghold of the diabolical villan. He even has the money to pay for it (I checked!). What do I do? This probably needs more details and its own thread in the What's a DM to Do? section. EDIT: If elven sub-races are so affordable, what is stopping the BBEG from hire 1000 of his own elven sub-race to cancel out the PC's? |
| simplyscribed12-18-06, 07:32 PM | Nice. I like the master race list. Now the player I was talking about says he hires 1000 wood elves and storms the stronghold of the diabolical villan. He even has the money to pay for it (I checked!). What do I do? Tell the player 1000 wood elf warriors are not available. Or if they are, he can't find 1000 wood elf warriors who are willing to join his cause. EDIT: I can't believe I let this post coax me out of my lurkdom. Oh well. |
| FlameLover12-18-06, 07:34 PM | Remind him that the entire Wood Elf population follows the formula (# of Characters of that race) + (# of race in backgrounds) +/- on DM discretion. Amazing nearly all subraces have the exact same formula... strange... |
| JoAT12-18-06, 07:46 PM | Err... No. The source of gravity is not the center of the planet, it's the planet itself. At the surface, you have the greatest amount of mass between you and the center of that mass, while being as close as possible. In the center of the earth, there is no noticable gravity. Or rather, there is, but you're being pulled equally from all sides by the mass that surrounds you. You'll be dead, but you'll float. And then melt. Artector is correct, because I forgot about the crust. Damn heterogeneous objects... Bah, physics. Too advanced for me, damn it. The world is flat, and the source of gravity is down. And perhaps gravorgs. |
| Danvac12-20-06, 03:17 PM | Hmm...okay fine how about this: A wizard did it (using the origin of species epic spell if you need more information on how) Working on it. |
| Danvac12-23-06, 06:49 PM | Bah, physics. Too advanced for me, damn it. The world is flat, and the source of gravity is down. And perhaps gravorgs. Well, than couldn't someone just tunnle for ever downward? A dungeon master could create whole worlds down below the surface! Ok, solved my races problem. |
| Danvac01-05-07, 03:17 PM | What kind of elves would live underground? Other than the Drow. |
| Glimm01-05-07, 11:47 PM | What kind of elves would live underground? Other than the Drow. Rockseer elves, the "rarest of all elvenkind". According to Monstrous Compendium Annual Volume 3 (from AD&D 2e), they were cowards during the war between the main elf gods and the drow gods and fled underground to protect themselves and have been there ever since. They have a lot of earth-related magical abilities such as meld into stone and stone shape. |
| Danvac01-07-07, 08:04 PM | So, Why aren't there that many human subraces? If there are so many elven and dwarven, why not tons of human subraces? |
| Bantam01-07-07, 08:46 PM | So, Why aren't there that many human subraces? If there are so many elven and dwarven, why not tons of human subraces? I think it's because humans are suppose to be already very adaptive in their nature that they don't need to evolve as much as the other races do to extreme environment. |
| Richmud01-07-07, 08:48 PM | So, Why aren't there that many human subraces? If there are so many elven and dwarven, why not tons of human subraces? The number of human subraces has been steadily increasing ever since races of destiny came out |
| Glimm01-07-07, 10:20 PM | So, Why aren't there that many human subraces? If there are so many elven and dwarven, why not tons of human subraces? In Game: Humans are both a relative newcomer and highly adaptable. This means that they have not yet had the time or need to branch into subraces beyond the handful that exists: neandertals (Frostburn), aventi (Stormwrack), karsites (Tome of Magic), sea kin (Races of Destiny), sharakim (RoD), skulks (RoD), underfolk (RoD), and any others I might be missing. There were also human "subraces" for each clan in Oriental Adventures that simply gave a bonus class-skill and a favored class. Out of Game: Two reasons. Humans are meant to be the base race with minimal abilities and adjustments, so it makes sense that there is only one main flavor of human. Also, designers would have a hard time making many subraces without ending up with something too similar to a real world culture. Once you're close to a real world culture you need to tread lightly to avoid offending real people by implying that those cultures are in some way inferior or superior than other cultures. You could also offend people just by implying that their own culture is somehow different than "normal" humans. |
| Qube01-08-07, 02:06 AM | So, Why aren't there that many human subraces? If there are so many elven and dwarven, why not tons of human subraces? I know at least 7 of them (each clan in oriental adventures setting). i recall fearun and its many types of human |
| Danvac01-20-07, 12:32 PM | Oh. Subraces are insane. I understand now. |
| DarkRhystar01-20-07, 12:52 PM | I know at least 7 of them (each clan in oriental adventures setting). i recall fearun and its many types of human Faerun doesn't have many types of Humans rather it has tons of different regions each with its own crappy line of selectable feats (minus the ones that have Able Learner which is awesome). |
| JoAT01-20-07, 12:54 PM | There are quite a few human subraces these days: Azurin Sea Kin Underdwellers Mongerlfolk Illumians Skulk Sharakim Karsite Aventi Neanderthal Silverbrow Humans I think that covers all non-campaign specific human subraces. |
| EvilVegan01-20-07, 01:35 PM | You want strong elves? Here's one thats even on-topic with the off-topic! Gravity elves: They live in the center of the earth and pull people down! +14 str, - 12 dex, -2 Charisma: Gravity elves are extremely strong but can't move very well due to their dense natures and they tend to get everyone down (get it?). Tiny: Gravity elves are only 6 inches tall but weigh over 10,000 pounds Speed: 5 feet. If they move any faster than this speed it crushes a puppy. This puppy need not be anywhere near the elf, but they get subconcious knowledge of the poor creature's plight. Low light vision: due to their gravitational pull these elves receive more light than other beings seeing twice as good as a human in conditions of poor lighting. Gravity grapple: Despite their tiny size gravity elves are treated as large size for grapple checks. Favored class: Paladin. Nothing pulls people down like smugness. LA: -2. Due to their gravitational field gravity elves pull in more experience and attract levels faster. |
| paladin201901-20-07, 02:24 PM | Why do the various elven subraces have to necessarily be genetically different? Why can't the different abilities be the result of 50+ years of practice in one field over others? Wood elves have a more physically demanding lifestyle that does not offer as much opportunity for study, ergo they have a bonus to Str and a penalty to Int. This can even extend to Drow, if you treat their spell-like abilities as spells they have been taught in the normal course of growing up and are now so familiar with that they are spell-like. Things like breathing underwater, yes, that is a genetic type difference. But the others, I'm not so sure. Most can be explained as normal childhoods. |
| Danvac01-20-07, 09:54 PM | Well that is true. However those would then be sufficient cultural differences. That could be classified as another race, but it is a long shot. Some subraces, like skulks are different physically. It really depends. Some cultures have thought of themselves as a "higher" form of life, or even a different race. I thought Illumians were a different race altogether, not a human subrace. |
| paladin201901-20-07, 10:01 PM | And what is the mechanical difference between a mountain dewarf and a hill dwarf? They are definitely different sub-races. But is this difference based on culture or physiology? To take it a step further, what is the difference between a Suel and a Flan in Greyhawk or a Chondathan and a Damaran in FR? Again, different sub-races of humanity, based on culture and physiology that differs only in cosmetic features. Now elves take far longer to grow up than any of the other races. Again, why can't 50+ years of specialization change a character in the same way as aging or gaining 4 levels? Definitely not RAW, YMMV. |
| Richmud01-21-07, 07:47 AM | I thought Illumians were a different race altogether, not a human subrace. Illumians are humans modified by very powerful magical words, so they count as an offshoot of the human race |
| EvilVegan01-21-07, 10:36 AM | I think the massive amount of subraces for elves would better be explained if they still had the 2 year pregnancies of 2nd edition (instead of the 9-month pregnancies stated in Races of the Wild). But, even human children are greatly impacted by the conditions of the mother during pregnancy and with a two year gestation the smaller, more magical elven children would absorb more of their surroundings, resulting in beneficial evolution after only one or two generations. |
| kelvinaw27301-21-07, 12:13 PM | Get Savage Species and look up the rules for putting a level adjustment on a race. Then let him come up with whatever he likes - the more uber he makes it, the more the LA will cripple him. |
| Raymond_Luxury_Yacht01-22-07, 03:42 PM | I'd hate to see the LA of Divine Rank 0. o.o DvR 0 is LA +6. |
| Qube01-23-07, 02:16 AM | DvR 0 is LA +6. I calculated it once and got a LA+7. |
| Dragonbait01-23-07, 05:28 PM | And what is the mechanical difference between a mountain dewarf and a hill dwarf? They are definitely different sub-races. But is this difference based on culture or physiology? Since level caps did not carry over to 3ed, there is no mechanical difference. Mountain dwarves are taller.. If they were elves, that would mean that they would have +4 Str, +4 Con, +4 Int, -2 Wis, Favored Class: Any, LA +0. But they're dwarves, so it means nothing. |
| AZNsupermarket01-23-07, 07:36 PM | Since level caps did not carry over to 3ed, there is no mechanical difference. Mountain dwarves are taller.. If they were elves, that would mean that they would have +4 Str, +4 Con, +4 Int, -2 Wis, Favored Class: Any, LA +0. But they're dwarves, so it means nothing. Elven sub-races aren't (for the most part) that strong. People just complain because there is one for every situation. |
| JoAT01-23-07, 08:04 PM | Elven sub-races aren't (for the most part) that strong. People just complain because there is one for every situation. Aside from the Wood Elves, which are as strong as half-orcs, about as bright, but hotter and better at all that interpersonal bull-monkey. Oh, and: Gravity elves: They live in the center of the earth and pull people down! +14 str, - 12 dex, -2 Charisma: Gravity elves are extremely strong but can't move very well due to their dense natures and they tend to get everyone down (get it?). Tiny: Gravity elves are only 6 inches tall but weigh over 10,000 pounds Speed: 5 feet. If they move any faster than this speed it crushes a puppy. This puppy need not be anywhere near the elf, but they get subconcious knowledge of the poor creature's plight. Low light vision: due to their gravitational pull these elves receive more light than other beings seeing twice as good as a human in conditions of poor lighting. Gravity grapple: Despite their tiny size gravity elves are treated as large size for grapple checks. Favored class: Paladin. Nothing pulls people down like smugness. LA: -2. Due to their gravitational field gravity elves pull in more experience and attract levels faster. I like it! Though I'd say it's unlikely they pull people down. They just have strong down powers, and live at the bottom of the world (it's flat, after all), perhaps using their down powers to make down up to them and their homes. The direction down is itself the source of downness (what some call gravity). And giant, upside down Gravorgs. |
| AZNsupermarket01-24-07, 03:34 PM | Aside from the Wood Elves, which are as strong as half-orcs, about as bright, but hotter and better at all that interpersonal bull-monkey. keep in mind that the wood elf +2 str -2 int is in addition to the high elf's +2 dex -2 con, thus making them poor choice as a race (what classes need a bonus to dex and str, but don't need con and int?). A dragonborn of bahamut wood elf on the other hand would fit the bill of what you are describing, but that's a totally different story. |
| JoAT01-24-07, 10:19 PM | keep in mind that the wood elf +2 str -2 int is in addition to the high elf's +2 dex -2 con, thus making them poor choice as a race (what classes need a bonus to dex and str, but don't need con and int?). They're still as strong as half orcs, and as bright - they also catch colds more often, and swing through the trees with the greatest of ease. They'd probably make fairly good rangers, but, aside from that, nothing really comes to mind (and, just going off their stats, how they heck would they behave, anyways? Half-orcs and orcs are often portrayed as not having the brains to figure out how to use a lock and key - what of the high elves mentally deficient cousins?). |
| Danvac01-28-07, 10:28 AM | Half-orcs and orcs are often portrayed as not having the brains to figure out how to use a lock and key - what of the high elves mentally deficient cousins? As it has been pointed out, the half-orc's "Stupid" gene is not very accurate. Half-orcs are stupid because of thier upbringing, so players would spend more ability score points on other scores, and not on INT. If someone were to put a 16 in INT for a half-orc it would come out as a 14 INT, which isn't as bad as the steryotype suggests. The same could be true of wood-elves. Also, a wood elf would have no WIS modifications, so they could be wise. There is a sidebar in chapter 1 of the PH about low INT, high WIS, and high CHA. Needless to say however, the wood elves favored class would not be wizard. You want strong elves? Here's one thats even on-topic with the off-topic! Gravity elves: They live in the center of the earth and pull people down! +14 str, - 12 dex, -2 Charisma: Gravity elves are extremely strong but can't move very well due to their dense natures and they tend to get everyone down (get it?). Tiny: Gravity elves are only 6 inches tall but weigh over 10,000 pounds Speed: 5 feet. If they move any faster than this speed it crushes a puppy. This puppy need not be anywhere near the elf, but they get subconcious knowledge of the poor creature's plight. Low light vision: due to their gravitational pull these elves receive more light than other beings seeing twice as good as a human in conditions of poor lighting. Gravity grapple: Despite their tiny size gravity elves are treated as large size for grapple checks. Favored class: Paladin. Nothing pulls people down like smugness. LA: -2. Due to their gravitational field gravity elves pull in more experience and attract levels faster. Who would want an elf like that? That sounds like someone woke up at 12:00 midnight and said, " Wow, I think I'll make a new elf!" Who came up with that idea anyway, because if it came from a book...... |
| Danvac02-15-07, 12:44 PM | Keep in mind that the wood elf +2 str -2 int is in addition to the high elf's +2 dex -2 con, thus making them poor choice as a race (what classes need a bonus to dex and str, but don't need con and int?). A dragonborn of bahamut wood elf on the other hand would fit the bill of what you are describing, but that's a totally different story. That is true, but shouldn't wood elves have a level adjustment?? Even if there are subtractions in the ability modifications, shouldn't 4 modifications merit a level adjustment?? |
| Salla02-15-07, 12:46 PM | One of my characters says it is possible for him to make a race. He claims the race to be "super elves". He's one of those people who can talk you into anything, and then when he leaves you're like " Why did I do that!". Is it possible for a charecter to make a race?? It is possible for a player to make a race, class, prestige class, magic item, or monster, certainly. However, all of such must, obviously, be run past the DM for such factors as balance, campaign-tone appropriateness, and other issues of playability. The DM's responsibility is to adjust it, if possble, or deny it if necessary. |
| AZNsupermarket02-15-07, 04:18 PM | That is true, but shouldn't wood elves have a level adjustment?? Even if there are subtractions in the ability modifications, shouldn't 4 modifications merit a level adjustment?? There are tons of race that have four ability mods. If you don't believe check the master race list: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=697653 |
| Danvac03-02-07, 07:56 PM | There are tons of race that have four ability mods. If you don't believe check the master race list: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=697653 Still, 4 unbalanced ability modifiers would merit a level adjustment. |
| AMGriffin03-02-07, 08:03 PM | That is true, but shouldn't wood elves have a level adjustment?? Nope! |
| AZNsupermarket03-03-07, 10:18 AM | Still, 4 unbalanced ability modifiers would merit a level adjustment. I wouldn't call wood elves unbalanced. What it comes down to is that there are no classes that need both dex and str, but not con or int. For strength to be one of your most important stats, you need to be a melee fighter. To be a melee fighter, you need a high constitution, which wood elves have a penalty to. Wood elves are in actuality a sub-par race. |
| danzibr03-03-07, 11:49 AM | Lousy stinking Elves. Mutating all over the place. Ruining my life. Actually, there are more dwarf subraces (20 as opposed to 19) in the Master Race List. Of course, that's not including the 6 other subraces in AZNsupermarket's post. [...] Lousy stinking dwarves. Mutating all over the place. Ruining my life.:D But Dwarves are cooler. They're all drunk, rowdy and operating heavy weaponry all the while. It's really dangerous which is synonymous with 'very fun'. Dwarves are also short versions of Chuck Norris. Basically Chuck in high gravity (probably from living under the surface, closer to the source of the gravity). I found Vestigial Thumb's reply to be hilarious. Especially Chuck Norris. People tried to carve Chuck Norris's face into Mount Rushmore but the stone wasn't hard enough for his beard. Dan |
| AMGriffin03-03-07, 02:20 PM | It does my heart good to still see people paying testament to the Norris. Either way, even though I said wood elves were balanced, I still think there's no real point to them, and they kinda don't make sense. Unless I'm mistaken, they're shorter and skinnier then humans. So...how does that make them more powerful then a human? I've just axed wood elves and Gray elves, replacing them with wild elves and sun elves in general. |
| The Ubbergeek03-03-07, 05:05 PM | A thing peoples seems to miss with all those subraces... They do not exist in ALL worlds, SIMULTANOUSLY. They are, for much of them, only OPTIONS to be put in YOUR game. Suggestions, ideas. You don't HAVE to put them all in it. |
| Crooky8203-03-07, 05:23 PM | I'm new to these forums so first of I'd like to say hello to everyone On topic I have to say I really like wood elves because they represent the at one with nature side of the race. All in all I do think the str increase is ok but only because they have a con penalty to counter makes the race less tough to kill. The thing I don't like about the stat adjustments is the int penalty. Just because the subrace has wood in front of it's name does not make them any less well read or civilized. Surely thats what wild elves are for. Thats why I'd like wood elves should be ECL + 1, so that the int penalty can be taken away. They could get extra bonuses to offset ECL + 1 though like skills bonuses or a 1st level spell like ability from the druid spell list. You could just keep them ECL 0 and with ability adjustments +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Con and -2 Cha. Elves might be good looking be that does not mean they can't be reclusive or shy. |
| JoAT03-03-07, 05:35 PM | A thing peoples seems to miss with all those subraces... They do not exist in ALL worlds, SIMULTANOUSLY. They are, for much of them, only OPTIONS to be put in YOUR game. Suggestions, ideas. You don't HAVE to put them all in it. Except in Faerun, of course. And maybe Greyhawk.... Well, not all elves are active in all worlds, but from what I can recall, each world uses more subraces than they don't. It's interesting to see this old topic dredged up from the abyss of posting thingies. So, without further ado, I'll get back to the line of 'wood elves is dumb': As it has been pointed out, the half-orc's "Stupid" gene is not very accurate. Half-orcs are stupid because of their upbringing, so players would spend more ability score points on other scores, and not on INT. If someone were to put a 16 in INT for a half-orc it would come out as a 14 INT, which isn't as bad as the stereotype suggests. The same could be true of wood-elves. Also, a wood elf would have no WIS modifications, so they could be wise. There is a sidebar in chapter 1 of the PH about low INT, high WIS, and high CHA. Needless to say however, the wood elves favored class would not be wizard. The thing is, an average wood elf will be using 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11, which means most default to either 8 or 9 for intelligence. Even on the ever so forgiving IQ equivalences chart I use (50 + (Int score x5)), that equates to an IQ of 90-95 - not exactly the brightest in the world, and warriors who dump Int would be even dimmer (and, for a race that's pretty dumb, you may find more warriors dumping Int than Charisma), as it wouldn't be hard to have int 6 with such a character. Now, I know that orcs not knowing how to operate a lock and key is an exaggeration, but the fact of the matter is, they're not very bright. And neither are wood elves - they're just graceful and strong. Perhaps other elves use them as hit-men of some sort. Or, since they may not have as much of a sense of personal dignity, clowns? I dunno, it just doesn't make much sense to me. Then again, few elven subraces do - they all act just as normal elves, apparently, aside from switched around weapon proficiencies, favored classes and ability scores. Perhaps elves just need to have the following stats: +2 to any single or pair of ability scores, -2 to any single or pair of ability scores Choose 4 weapons. You are proficient with these weapons. Favored Class: Any. |
| The Ubbergeek03-03-07, 10:11 PM | Except in Faerun, of course. And maybe Greyhawk.... Well, not all elves are active in all worlds, but from what I can recall, each world uses more subraces than they don't. Yeah, there is more subraces.... But again, I was speaking of ALL books, like Unearthed Arcana by example. You don't find EVERYTHING in it (except Eberon, and even then, you can't find exactly every possible racial options there). My point is, much of those subraces are suggestions, ideas and options for dm who like to build their own worlds and want new twists to common races - I don't think those books say 'use them all at the times!'. The stereotypes of FR/GH/EB as an hodge podge of anything at the same times is a bit ridiculous, eman and untrue. |
| Raymond_Luxury_Yacht03-04-07, 02:33 AM | Except in Faerun, of course. Faerun has every elven subrace but Athasian elves and Grugach. |
| The Ubbergeek03-04-07, 10:57 AM | Faerun has every elven subrace but Athasian elves and Grugach. Not quite a few from splatbooks, like ARcana Unearthed's options, Mystara's Shadow Elves, the valley Elves, Birthright more feyish elves, etc... So easy to poke fun of Forgotten realms when apparently one don't know much.... |
| Danvac03-12-07, 08:12 PM | What is the favored class of a wood elf? |
| Richmud03-12-07, 08:27 PM | What is the favored class of a wood elf? It's Ranger |
| Isomer03-12-07, 10:33 PM | So elves have crazy high numbers of subspecies (and dwarves too)... What about the real baby makers of the dnd world? What about goblins?, anyone have an official count on the number of goblin subspeices? |
| AZNsupermarket03-12-07, 11:59 PM | So elves have crazy high numbers of subspecies (and dwarves too)... What about the real baby makers of the dnd world? What about goblins?, anyone have an official count on the number of goblin subspeices? Goblins Goblin: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Cha, small, 30 ft., rogue, humanoid (goblinoid), monster manual pg.133 Air Goblin: +4 Dex -2 Str -2 Con, small, 30 ft., rogue, humanoid (goblinoid), unearthed arcana pg.16 Aquatic Goblin: -2 Str +2 Con -2 Cha, small, 30 ft. (swim 30 ft.), rogue, humanoid (goblinoid, aquatic), unearthed arcana pg.7 Artic Goblin: -2 Str +2 Con -2 Cha, small, 30 ft., rogue, humanoid (goblinoid), unearthed arcana pg.9 Bhuka: -2 Str +2 Dex, medium, 30 ft., druid, humanoid (goblinoid), sandstrom pg.39 Desert Goblin: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Cha, small, 30 ft ., rogue, humanoid (goblinoid), unearthed arcana pg.12 Jungle Goblin: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Cha, small, 30 ft. (climb 20 ft.), rogue, humanoid (goblinoid), unearthed arcana pg.12 |
| JoAT03-13-07, 04:02 AM | For only those called goblins, close, but where would goblins be without their close, close cousins: Goblin (MM) Bugbear (MM) Hobgobilin (MM) Forestkith Goblin (MMIII) Snow Goblin (Frostburn) Air Goblin (UA) Aquatic Goblin (UA) Artic Goblin (UA) Desert Goblin (UA) Jungle Goblin (UA) Blue (XPH) Bhuka (Sandstorm) Dekanter Goblin (Races of Fareun) Norker (3.5 version: Dragon Magazine) Varag (MMIV) |
| Danvac03-14-07, 08:35 PM | Goblins Goblin: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Cha, small, 30 ft., rogue, humanoid (goblinoid), monster manual pg.133 Air Goblin: +4 Dex -2 Str -2 Con, small, 30 ft., rogue, humanoid (goblinoid), unearthed arcana pg.16 Aquatic Goblin: -2 Str +2 Con -2 Cha, small, 30 ft. (swim 30 ft.), rogue, humanoid (goblinoid, aquatic), unearthed arcana pg.7 Artic Goblin: -2 Str +2 Con -2 Cha, small, 30 ft., rogue, humanoid (goblinoid), unearthed arcana pg.9 Bhuka: -2 Str +2 Dex, medium, 30 ft., druid, humanoid (goblinoid), sandstrom pg.39 Desert Goblin: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Cha, small, 30 ft ., rogue, humanoid (goblinoid), unearthed arcana pg.12 Jungle Goblin: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Cha, small, 30 ft. (climb 20 ft.), rogue, humanoid (goblinoid), unearthed arcana pg.12 So hobgoblins, bugbears and blues don't count? |
| AZNsupermarket03-15-07, 12:03 AM | So hobgoblins, bugbears and blues don't count? My list only includes LA +0 races - sorry |
| Danvac03-15-07, 09:31 PM | My list only includes LA +0 races - sorry Whats the difference between LA and ECL? |
| Ventilatory_Threshold03-15-07, 09:49 PM | Whats the difference between LA and ECL? ECL = HD + LA LA is considered additional levels, but it doesn't give HD (or anything derived from HD). It's used to balance powerful races/monsters. |
| Kresalak03-15-07, 09:51 PM | ECL = HD + LA LA is considered additional levels, but it doesn't give HD (or anything derived from HD). It's used to **** over everything that people want to play. I fixed your post. |
| AZNsupermarket03-15-07, 11:26 PM | I fixed your post. Creatures with LA or HD are a bad choice to play as a PC. |
| Qube03-16-07, 02:56 AM | Creatures with LA or HD are a bad choice to play as a PC. I disagree: I'm currently playing a half-human half-dragon fighter (LA+3). you might think OMG so little hp for a level 4 character?. well, my AC is 5 higher then a normal character (4 natural armor, and I took the impr natural armor feat). wizards and damage spells? immune to fire :D (which negates any burning hands or scorching ray, and later fireball). my attack is also 1 higher then normal (LA+3, but STR+8). my damage with my glaive is though the roof (average damage on critical is 50+). In troublesome situations I still have my breathweapon (6d8 60 ft line). AND i'm immune to paralysis, sleep, ... I also have darkvision and low light vision. |
| ArcTan03-16-07, 03:24 AM | One of my characters says it is possible for him to make a race. He claims the race to be "super elves". He's one of those people who can talk you into anything, and then when he leaves you're like " Why did I do that!". Is it possible for a charecter to make a race?? Characters, of course, can't make races unless they're gods, and probably greater gods at that. *Players* can make up whatever nonsense they want, if the DM agrees to use it. It's important to observe this distinction. A player who's really trying to be creative for creativity's sake can and should be thinking up cool stuff that *harms* his character (like a really challenging encounter idea or a particular monster his character would greatly fear because it counters his abilities) as well as cool stuff that helps his character. |
| Qube03-16-07, 03:33 AM | Characters, of course, can't make races unless they're gods, and probably greater gods at that. or epic character (there's an epic spell that creates a race) |
| Finfreeze03-16-07, 04:37 AM | Creatures with LA or HD are a bad choice to play as a PC. Unless of course, you're one of these races/templates (among others): Anthropomorphic Bat Anthropomorphic Whale (any, really) Blink Dog Half-Ogre Lycanthrope (practically any 4-6 HD large, especially dire, animal) Minotaur Nightmare Ogre Pixie Sylph Worg Then you're anywhere from OK to awesome. I'm especially fond of Nightmares, which get concealment, good flight, huge size after advancement, really good hit dice, and astral projection as well as etherealness at will. Snatch is fun. |
| AZNsupermarket03-16-07, 07:29 AM | Unless of course, you're one of these races/templates (among others): I was giving more of a general rule of thumb - there are always exceptions Anthropomorphic Bat BTW anthromorphic bats has LA +0 and only 1 HD, which disappears as soon as you take a class level. |
| Raymond_Luxury_Yacht03-16-07, 05:05 PM | Not quite a few from splatbooks, like ARcana Unearthed's options, Mystara's Shadow Elves, the valley Elves, Birthright more feyish elves, etc... So easy to poke fun of Forgotten realms when apparently one don't know much.... I'm not familiar with Birthright, and I forgot about valley elves and shadow elves, so I'll give you those. Arcana Unearthed is third-party, unless you meant Unearthed Arcana. |
| Ventilatory_Threshold03-17-07, 03:50 PM | I fixed your post. Thank you. I can't help making typos every now and then, though this one was particularly large. |
| Izzak03-21-07, 12:43 AM | I thought the kobolds were the baby making race of the dnd worlds. I mean i always read of unmeasurable amounts in caves everywhere. From these there has to be the oddballs. A "bigger" kobold, maybe a smarter one. |
| danzibr03-22-07, 04:09 PM | I disagree: I'm currently playing a half-human half-dragon fighter (LA+3). you might think OMG so little hp for a level 4 character?. well, my AC is 5 higher then a normal character (4 natural armor, and I took the impr natural armor feat). wizards and damage spells? immune to fire :D (which negates any burning hands or scorching ray, and later fireball). my attack is also 1 higher then normal (LA+3, but STR+8). my damage with my glaive is though the roof (average damage on critical is 50+). In troublesome situations I still have my breathweapon (6d8 60 ft line). AND i'm immune to paralysis, sleep, ... I also have darkvision and low light vision. Half-Dragon is one of the better non-LA +0... things, IMO, whether it be race or template. Best thing is that they don't get racial HD. But yeah, there are still large cons. It won't be until level 9 that you begin to get your second attack (and you never get 4 attacks and have at least one less feat). Later on your breath weapon won't be powerful and your AC doesn't mean much against spells (natural AC doesn't do much against touch attacks... like disintegrate). Come to think of it, if you're a level 1 barb Half-Dragon let's say you have 15 hp (which is reasonable). A fourth level wizard/sorcerer shocking grasps you for 4d6 damage, which should average 14 damage. But yeah, you certainly get some good benefits. I guess... long story short, people can come up with examples why Half-Dragons (or anything else with a decent LA) aren't good, but hey, I like them. Dan |
| n3ro03-22-07, 08:02 PM | Only below a certain point. Before that it gets stronger. Go Physics! I say we should develop 1000000001 human subraces to represent the screwy way evolution happens in DND. Thusly 20+ elven subraces might actually exist. I agree! especially since they don't reproduce as often. Longer lifespan = fewer generations = fewer mutations/adaptations:D . |
| NaeraBlueshadow03-24-07, 07:41 PM | You forgot half-elf, half-drow, etc. what about the mist elfs?? you forgot my ppl!!! oh well we are always over looked... oh yeah its my first post whoooo go me |
| Kresalak03-24-07, 10:31 PM | Half-Dragon is one of the better non-LA +0... things, IMO, whether it be race or template. Best thing is that they don't get racial HD. But yeah, there are still large cons. It won't be until level 9 that you begin to get your second attack (and you never get 4 attacks and have at least one less feat). Later on your breath weapon won't be powerful and your AC doesn't mean much against spells (natural AC doesn't do much against touch attacks... like disintegrate). Come to think of it, if you're a level 1 barb Half-Dragon let's say you have 15 hp (which is reasonable). A fourth level wizard/sorcerer shocking grasps you for 4d6 damage, which should average 14 damage. But yeah, you certainly get some good benefits. I guess... long story short, people can come up with examples why Half-Dragons (or anything else with a decent LA) aren't good, but hey, I like them. Dan The Half-Dragon actually totally sucks. The only times that it can come close to being useful is with the martial classes who barely lose anything beyond base attack bonus from the level adjustment. This is a design flaw of those classes, and overall being a half-dragon makes you cry. |