Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eshenaleros 06-08-07, 09:10 PM	maybe this doesn't belong here, but would anybody have any clue what the level of the man of steel would be?
Red_Rabbit 06-08-07, 09:14 PM	I feel like my IQ went down for reading this???
VandQuastori 06-08-07, 09:23 PM	:embarrass Thank you. Don't get me started on StupidMan...
CryoSilver 06-08-07, 09:27 PM	7.
MasonMurdoc 06-08-07, 09:28 PM	I feel like my IQ went down for reading this??? Same here. hehe Seriously though, a Krytonian would have a very high level adjustment. At least 10. Then I'd say he'd be a Paladin because he's a bit of a ponse. :D I guess he coudl have a few monk levels, but the uber strength bonus would outshine any monk anyway. He'd have high bonuses to all physical stats, flight, is there a super speed spell, and a few spells to indicate heat vision, x-ray vision, and whatever other powers he has that I'm unaware of. I've kinda misread your post altogether really so of your just gonna go with a high level. 80 - 100 *shrugs* Sorry I can't be of any more help, I don't know much about him. Well at least I know I've been more helpful then the first 2 replies. To you guys: If you have nothing relevant to say **** OFF They let a lot of jerks on here
AMGriffin 06-08-07, 09:39 PM	He's probably just level 5 fighter or so, most of his toughness comes from the fact he's a freakin' kryptonian...I mean seriously, somebody mentioned LA+10 early on, hah! Right. Try an LA of 100 or so.
Red_Rabbit 06-08-07, 09:40 PM	Edit I didn't like this post I put. Wasn't insulting just didn't like it
JhyarelleNightwind 06-08-07, 09:46 PM	I guess he coudl (could) :D have a few monk levels, but the uber strength bonus would outshine any monk anyway. As a Superman fan, you shock and appal me to think that Supes got levels in monk. I agree that paladin would be the way to go, just ditch the mount and divine stuff a couple of dips in fighter just to get Improver unarmed attack and Superior unarmed attack. But to be serious superman canot be made in D&D. Powers and bilities can always be mimiced but the character themselves can not. Shoot IQ goin down 120... 119... 15... 45...-34 duhhhhhhhhh!
Eshenaleros 06-08-07, 09:48 PM	Well at least I know I've been more helpful then the first 2 replies. To you guys: If you have nothing relevant to say **** OFF They let a lot of jerks on here thank you man. much better
Cartigan 06-08-07, 09:52 PM	Superman has a +20LA for Super-ventriloquism
MasonMurdoc 06-08-07, 10:03 PM	thank you man. much better Was that sarcasm, or are you actually thanking me :S As a Superman fan, you shock and appal me to think that Supes got levels in monk. I agree that paladin would be the way to go, just ditch the mount and divine stuff a couple of dips in fighter just to get Improver unarmed attack and Superior unarmed attack. But to be serious superman canot be made in D&D. Powers and bilities can always be mimiced but the character themselves can not. Shoot IQ goin down 120... 119... 15... 45...-34 duhhhhhhhhh! Yeah, I had a feeling I'd get something wrong XD
Rhyvurg 06-08-07, 10:22 PM	Actually there used to be a site called Dicefreaks where they did stuff like stat out super heroes all the time. Got shut down, though. But in a game I used to play we worked out different super powers as SLAs and such, with level adjustments. A lot of fun, but it got old after a while.
EpicEvokerElf 06-08-07, 11:00 PM	"I need to go soak my brain in acid..." OOTS
Tectorman 06-08-07, 11:40 PM	Actually, if you went back far enough (i.e., before he could juggle planets), Superman could actually be a reasonable build. After all, all he originally had was superspeed (faster than a speeding bullet), superstrength (more powerful than a locomotive), and a really high racial bonus to Jump checks (able to leap tall buildings in a single bound). Heat vision, X-ray vision, Macrovision, Microvision, Super Breath, the ability to fly came later (or so I'm thinking).
Cartigan 06-09-07, 12:09 AM	You forgot Super-ventriloquism, super-landscaping, super-mathematics...
bahamut920 06-09-07, 12:22 AM	Well, to consider Superman, you'd have to first start by defining the Kryptonian race. They have immense strength, near-invulnerability, superspeed, X-Ray vision, heat vision, and (sometimes) arctic breath... while they're in yellow sunlight. In other forms of might, they aren't particularly any better than the average human being. And expose them to a certain glowing green rock, and they fall flat on their faces. So Kryptonians have high bonuses to physical stats (probably +20 to +25) as a supernatural ability, DR 20 or 30/- as a supernatural ability, natural armor granted supernaturally, high movement speed (flight included) and (possibly) a permanent haste effect as supernatural powers, maybe Powerful Build ('cause he's always chucking cars and boulders around, and I think I've seen him dual-wield trucks or something) a couple of times, Scorching Ray (maybe limited to two rays - one from each eye) as a supernatural ability, the arctic breath is clearly a cone-shaped cold damage breath weapon, and the X-Ray vision can be ripped from a magic item right in the DMG. Then their Kryptonite weakness can be represented as a MASSIVE penalty to their physical stats and some Con damage each round, perhaps with a Fort save to halve the Con damage. The sunlight dependency doesn't seem like a big defect, unless you rule that the Outer Planes, lacking true "suns," have different wavelengths of light as their primary. I think they'd be humanoid, but the problem is their amount of supernatural abilities. Humanoids are only supposed to have one or two at the most. But there's really no other type for them. They look like humans, so monstrous humanoid is out. They can't be animals, magical beasts, undead, or vermin, and they aren't from another plane, so outsider is ruled out. I guess they might be aberrations, but I think their physiology is closer to human than the whacked-out stuff you see in aberrations. I don't think they could be fey, either, because they have no connection to the natural world. So they're most likely humanoid. No racial Hit Dice, so they just assume the HD of their class levels. An LA of about 15-20. Which brings us to Supes' class levels. Probably a lot of fighter. I don't buy into the paladin theory, because he doesn't have any of the paladin's powers, including smite, mount, whatever. No monk, because he doesn't have any official martial arts training. Which means fighter, and a lot of it. Probably close to - if not more than - 20 levels of fighter.
Razieliffied 06-09-07, 12:38 AM	I believe that superman is either a Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) creature, or that he is to the Paragon as the Paragon is to a typical human. Come to think of it, Tectorman has it right, before he became the walking plothook Superman wasn't all that powerfull, he was fast and strong, but neither indestructable or unbeatable. As it is, he would be best served as a DMPC in a game run by a very railroad focussed Dungeon Master.
Tectorman 06-09-07, 12:45 AM	I believe that superman is either a Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) creature, or that he is to the Paragon as the Paragon is to a typical human. Come to think of it, Tectorman has it right, before he became the walking plothook Superman wasn't all that powerfull, he was fast and strong, but neither indestructable or unbeatable. As it is, he would be best served as a DMPC in a game run by a very railroad focussed Dungeon Master. Yes, I actually remember watching an old cartoon, which shows him hauling (at a rate of >1 yard per second) a train while being attacked by men in gas masks throwing gas grenades at him. AND HE WAS COUGHING!! He lost his footing and went even slower going uphill. (None of that "can breathe in space crap") So it depends on which era Superman you use: here's a question that I really don't intend for anyone to take seriously; what about that brief lightning version (you know, where he was really blue)?
celestialkin 06-09-07, 01:09 AM	I believe that superman is either a Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) creature, or that he is to the Paragon as the Paragon is to a typical human. Come to think of it, Tectorman has it right, before he became the walking plothook Superman wasn't all that powerfull, he was fast and strong, but neither indestructable or unbeatable. As it is, he would be best served as a DMPC in a game run by a very railroad focussed Dungeon Master. I'm sorry if this is off topic, but what is a DMPC?
KurenaiYami 06-09-07, 01:12 AM	You forgot Super-ventriloquism, super-landscaping, super-mathematics... How could you leave out super weaving?
DarkRhystar 06-09-07, 01:14 AM	So it depends on which era Superman you use: here's a question that I really don't intend for anyone to take seriously; what about that brief lightning version (you know, where he was really blue)? If you go back to one of the really old comics (back in the day where he couldn't be harmed by anything short of Krytonite), it'd be pretty nasty. I'd also suggest a +500 racial bonus to disguise checks. I mean seriously, all he had to do to fool the entire world was put on a pair of glasses.
Nat_20 06-09-07, 01:18 AM	Ok ok, he isnt all that good at fighting, he hits hard and take ALOT of hit and keeps going... i would say that all those special things(heat vision, flight) are racial abilities and his class is... 50 level fighter??? He makes up for everything else in ability scores, and he is way up there epic level wise, but their are others that match or go above his power in the comics, Doomsday for instance...
Nat_20 06-09-07, 01:41 AM	Double post Shouldn't this be in the Classes board????
Rerecros 06-09-07, 01:55 AM	monk? paladin? fighter? he wishes, he's like a level 3 expert at best. Though because he's kryptonian, he's got a bajillion str and a bajillion dr/krypton. And some nifty supernatural abilities.
bahamut920 06-09-07, 02:10 AM	monk? paladin? fighter? he wishes, he's like a level 3 expert at best. Though because he's kryptonian, he's got a bajillion str and a bajillion dr/krypton. And some nifty supernatural abilities. I disagree. Even under the effects of red sunlight, which negs his super powers, he's still proven himself to be a competent warrior. He's probably just taken a couple of epic feats that he can't use when his super-strength and superspeed go away. And he's not really THAT strong; a +25-30 racial bonus is probably good. Also, he can be hurt, just not easily. DR 20/- is good, especially as a supernatural ability that is taken away by Kryptonite.
Freedon Nadd 06-09-07, 02:57 AM	Probably PL 15-sh Mutants and Masterminds.
Darth Sephiroth 06-09-07, 04:15 PM	This Thread Has Supes (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-653701)
Ace_of_time 06-09-07, 09:21 PM	The very first comic I would say 1st level. After he fought his way out of hell to get back to earth 20+. If you really want to know first start with his abilities for his race and give those a LA. I would just list the abilities and ask someone on here what they think the LA should be for those abilities and maybe some of the nice ones on here will quit joking around and help you. As for class I say scout but thats just me. It would have to be something with disguise as class skill.
Darth Sephiroth 06-09-07, 10:07 PM	The very first comic I would say 1st level. After he fought his way out of hell to get back to earth 20+. If you really want to know first start with his abilities for his race and give those a LA. I would just list the abilities and ask someone on here what they think the LA should be for those abilities and maybe some of the nice ones on here will quit joking around and help you. As for class I say scout but thats just me. It would have to be something with disguise as class skill. Nope, he's got a special version of a hat of disguise in his glasses.
bloodtalon 06-09-07, 10:10 PM	if you go back to when he first appeared he was more of a nazi wanted to rule the earth and the writers made him too powerful in one comic i saw him blow out a star i did see once on the history channel about super man they did an hour long show explaning how he has all his super abilities
Ace_of_time 06-09-07, 10:12 PM	Nope, he's got a special version of a hat of disguise in his glasses. he disguises him self as superman to and doesn't wear them. Sorry.:)
Illithid_Tentacles 06-09-07, 10:36 PM	Superman would have some huge bonuses to his physical stats, sure, and there's the Scorching Ray, Cone of Cold, and Fly spells at will, and huge DR, microvision, X-ray vision, and whatever other powers the writer decides he should have. BUT, aside from his racial abilities, what does he have? Well, he's fairly intelligent (built his Fortress of Solitude from scratch, and he's managed to improvise effective makeshift weapons or tools in many instances), but his Wisdom would be fairly low- in the Superman movie (or maybe it was Superman 2, I forget), after he gave up his superpowers to be with Lois, they were in a diner and there was someone causing trouble. He stood up and took a hit from the troublemaker without even considering that he (Supes) was no more powerful than a normal human. He's also done a LOT of extraordinarily stupid things that he would have been able to avoid if he'd only stopped to think for just a second, in the comics, movies, TV shows, AND cartoons. Disregarding his HUGE LA, when you strip away all of his racial abilities, and take a look at Clark Kent, not Superman, he'd probably be a medium level Expert, like most other people would. When you include his LA, however, he'd definitely be epic.
Ace_of_time 06-10-07, 12:40 AM	so lets say +10 to all physical stats + 4 int and cha and -4 Wis. Sun dependent, ray of flames, cone of cold, fly, and haste at will. energy Resistance 5 to fire, ice, acid. Vulnerable to Electricity and magic. + 4 save enchantment effects. Doesn't need to sleep or eat. Super speed adds + 5' per dex mod. Super Str carrying cap is times (times Str mod) time DR15/magic or kraptonite ( yes I know it's not spelled right) Feat continual spell like abilities ( which allows him to keep using his spell like abilities a number of rounds = to his con mod.) Fast heal 5 in sunlight. Also adding racial HD as outsider and adding Bluff and disguise to class list So lets say this is true for his race what would his LA be?
Kaldric 06-10-07, 01:18 AM	A strength stat of 394 is sufficient for a medium-sized creature to lift the world over their head, assuming they had someplace to stand. I think that's about right. Fun fact.
Nat_20 06-10-07, 01:25 AM	Disregarding his HUGE LA, when you strip away all of his racial abilities, and take a look at Clark Kent, not Superman, he'd probably be a medium level Expert, like most other people would. When you include his LA, however, he'd definitely be epic. You got a point here, if he was human he would probably be a level one fighter with improved unarmed strike... EVERYTHING ELSE about him is his race... and regarding his racial abilities, i would say fly, cone of cold, and Lightning Bolt(energy substituted to fire damage) and everything else he's known for...
KurenaiYami 06-10-07, 05:33 AM	he disguises him self as superman to and doesn't wear them. Sorry.:) Haven't you ever seen the end of Kill Bill Volume 2? He doesn't disguise himself as Superman, that's who he is. Clark Kent is his disguise.
MasonMurdoc 06-10-07, 10:19 AM	Haven't you ever seen the end of Kill Bill Volume 2? He doesn't disguise himself as Superman, that's who he is. Clark Kent is his disguise. I disagree with Bill on that. He doesn't live his life as Superman. He just uses that identity so he can use his powers to help people. He was raised as Clark Kent. But what do I no, I've only ever liked him in Smallville. I'm more of a Batman fan.:D
Nat_20 06-10-07, 01:20 PM	I disagree with Bill on that. He doesn't live his life as Superman. He just uses that identity so he can use his powers to help people. He was raised as Clark Kent. But what do I no, I've only ever liked him in Smallville. I'm more of a Batman fan.:D You have a point, he lives as Clark, but moonlights as big blue... And, Batman IS a pimp btw... Hey, you think that if regular humans are under a RED sun, that we would get all those super bonuses that Superman has????
calronmoonflower 06-10-07, 04:09 PM	maybe this doesn't belong here, but would anybody have any clue what the level of the man of steel would be? First lets assume that the standard D&D world doesn't support his superpowers. Otherwise he would be (or become) too strong. I think he would be as a standard human, except that his race is outsider. As for class levels he would likely have a couple levels in savant (see Dragon Compendium) with the Improved Unarmed Strike.
Regularguy 06-10-07, 04:33 PM	After all, all he originally had was superspeed (faster than a speeding bullet), superstrength (more powerful than a locomotive), and a really high racial bonus to Jump checks (able to leap tall buildings in a single bound) Actually, it's even lower than that; he was originally just faster than a locomotive, and more powerful than a speeding bullet -- in that, um, he could shrug off pistol fire, though an artillery shell could break the skin. But with a good running start, he had just enough leg strength to clear one-eighth of a mile in a single bound; he couldn't break the sound barrier on foot, he could just outrace an express train.
Darth Sephiroth 06-10-07, 04:52 PM	Actually, it's even lower than that; he was originally just faster than a locomotive, and more powerful than a speeding bullet -- in that, um, he could shrug off pistol fire, though an artillery shell could break the skin. But with a good running start, he had just enough leg strength to clear one-eighth of a mile in a single bound; he couldn't break the sound barrier on foot, he could just outrace an express train. Which would make him a pretty good monk
Ace_of_time 06-10-07, 06:21 PM	I disagree with Bill on that. He doesn't live his life as Superman. He just uses that identity so he can use his powers to help people. He was raised as Clark Kent. But what do I no, I've only ever liked him in Smallville. I'm more of a Batman fan.:D Rules wise he would still have to roll diguise and bluff checks to make people think he wasn't clark. just like when he is clark he would roll the checks to make people think he was not superman.
Ace_of_time 06-10-07, 06:33 PM	so lets say +10 to all physical stats + 4 int and cha and -4 Wis. Sun dependent, ray of flames, cone of cold, fly, and haste at will. energy Resistance 5 to fire, ice, acid. Vulnerable to Electricity and magic. + 4 save enchantment effects. Doesn't need to sleep or eat. Super speed adds + 5' per dex mod. Super Str carrying cap is times (times Str mod) time DR15/magic or kraptonite ( yes I know it's not spelled right) Feat continual spell like abilities ( which allows him to keep using his spell like abilities a number of rounds = to his con mod.) Fast heal 5 in sunlight. Also adding racial HD as outsider and adding Bluff and disguise to class list So lets say this is true for his race what would his LA be? Added some things. What do you think now?
Cartigan 06-10-07, 06:55 PM	I disagree with Bill on that. He doesn't live his life as Superman. He just uses that identity so he can use his powers to help people. He was raised as Clark Kent. But he isn't Clark Kent, he is really Kal-el of Krypton, and that was Bill's point. Moving on.
Anodai 06-10-07, 08:19 PM	KRYPTONIAN The below race assumes the Kryptonian is on earth. Kryptonian Racial Traits • +500 str, +300 con. • Medium: as medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Base land speed is 400 feet, fly speed 800 feet (perfect). • Kryptonians act as if under the effect of a haste spell at all times. • Kryptonians have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for free even if they don’t meet the prerequisites. • Kryptonians can use a Scorching Ray, caster level 7th, every 1d4 rounds as a supernatural ability. • +40 racial bonus on spot, listen, and jump checks. • Kryptonians have perfect darkvision. • Kryptonians can see through any material except lead and can see any creature living creature even if it is invisible or obscured by lead. • Kryptonians do not have to breathe but can do so anyway, especially to use their super-breath. • Kryptonians can use a breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds that does either 3d6 cold damage as a 30 foot line or a special wind effect as a 30 foot cone. Large or smaller creatures must make a DC 20 reflex save or be knocked prone. Medium or smaller creatures must make a DC 20 reflex save or be knocked prone and pushed back 5 feet. • Kryptonians have damage reduction ∞/kryptonite. • If a Kryptonian is with in 30 feet of kryptonite, he immediately looses all racial bonuses and is stunned and takes d6 strength and constitution damage per round. • LA I have no idea, your pick What do you think?
Ace_of_time 06-10-07, 09:41 PM	You people do know that most of they things you think he uses Str for he doesn't. Most of the time he extends his fly around the object then just pushes it. Kind of like levitate. And The new DC comics change him because they thought he was to powerful. The new superman itn't that strong. I forgot about his seeing and hear but there are spells for that too. When I said first comic I meant When he crashed here, as a baby. Not first comic made. Sorry for the confusion.
Jamven The Fighter 06-10-07, 11:26 PM	Seriously, he'd have to have at LEAST a VERY substantial epic LA. He can move, react, and fight at the speed of light. How many punches do you think he could throw in a six-second round? He'd get, literally, MILLIONS of attacks per round. He is strong enough to lift trillions of tons, and could even move planets whilst sun-dipped (something he could do as a free action, considering his speed). He often holds back, but he'd be able to deal out Hulking-Hurler type damage with each attack (of which he gets millions per round, as previously explained). His heat vision is hotter than the core of the sun. His cold breath can freeze things that are immune to the coldness of space. His natural armor/damge reduction would be sufficient to survive fifty supernovas (of red-sun radiation - one of his WEAKNESSES!) minimum. Don't get me started on the insight bonus to AC that would be required to dodge beams of light. He is an accomplished martial artist, and even while depowered(!!) was fast/skilled enough to block bullets fired at him with a spinning chain. And that's just post-crisis superman! Pre-crisis could tow planets like they were nothing, and even destroyed a solar system with a sneeze! A FRIGGIN SNEEZE! Now, look at the epic spellcasting system. It's ridiculous. But what would the required Spellcraft DC be for a spell that gave you millions of attacks per round, trillions of points of damage per attack, and gave you the ability to survive an explosion as powerful as FIFTY supernovas. His LA would be in the hundreds, minimum. More than likely, much much higher than that.
Undrhil 06-10-07, 11:50 PM	OK, a couple of things: Super cannot breath in outer space. He never has been able to. In the movies, they show him flying out in space but he doesn't *breathe* out there. He holds his breath (which he can do for very long periods of time.) If he's going to have an extended stint in outer space, he either uses an oxygen tank or he flies a space ship, just like any mortal would do. As a race Kryptonians are mortal with normal strength, speed, etc. Being exposed to the yellow sun of Earth has given Superman his extraordinary abilities. Therefore, Superman would be a Human Paragon with certain other weaknesses and abilities thrown in to account for his super powers. Come to think of it, Tectorman has it right, before he became the walking plothook Superman wasn't all that powerfull, he was fast and strong, but neither indestructable or unbeatable. As it is, he would be best served as a DMPC in a game run by a very railroad focussed Dungeon Master. What are you talking about? Superman has always been indestructible, unless in the precense of krytonite. And (someone asked this before) a DMPC is a PC which is played by the DM of the game. It could be considered an NPC for all intents and purposes, but the DM is supposed to be playing it like the other PCs (without using metagaming, etc.)
Undrhil 06-10-07, 11:54 PM	You people do know that most of they things you think he uses Str for he doesn't. Most of the time he extends his fly around the object then just pushes it. Kind of like levitate. And The new DC comics change him because they thought he was to powerful. The new superman itn't that strong. I forgot about his seeing and hear but there are spells for that too. When I said first comic I meant When he crashed here, as a baby. Not first comic made. Sorry for the confusion. You are thinking of the new Superboy with his Tactilekenesis, which allows him to move *anything* he can touch, as if by super strength. Superman *does* have Super Strength and uses it.
sooperspook 06-11-07, 12:07 AM	You are thinking of the new Superboy with his Tactilekenesis, which allows him to move *anything* he can touch, as if by super strength. Superman *does* have Super Strength and uses it. No, its a recent retcon too. I think they saw the Superboy idea and thought "cool! We'll use that and can drop Supe's Str down a bit". As for building Supes, well. Like several others have said, which version are you going for? The WW2 version? The Golden Age version? The 80's version? etc.. Too many writers have fooled with his abilities to definitively say "THIS is the way superman is".
Anodai 06-11-07, 02:57 PM	Hell, I'm not going for a specific era superman, I don't even know what that is (sort of) I'm going for a reasonably powerful superman that doesn't blow out the solar system when he gets a cold. (maybe along the lines of the smallvill superman w/ fly?)
Luis_Dragunov 06-11-07, 04:07 PM	Supes is a powergamer build. I mean, think about it. He must be a 10th level fighter or so since he is a hard hitter, but really not that impressive to be uber. He does, however, have a really powerful template that he conned the DM into. It's highly situational: on earth only. Outside the earth's yellow sun, he's totally worthless. He used this argument (that he was taking a huge flaw) in order to get away with a huge LA negation. The other players whined and grunted but to no avail!
Illithid_Tentacles 06-11-07, 07:05 PM	He does, however, have a really powerful template that he conned the DM into. It's highly situational: on earth only. Outside the earth's yellow sun, he's totally worthless. He used this argument (that he was taking a huge flaw) in order to get away with a huge LA negation. Superman doesn't draw his energy from the sun as he needs is, as evidenced by the fact that he retains his superpowers at night and when away from Earth, but not in the presence of a red star or green kryptonite. He works more like a battery, storing the energy of the sun in his body and using it when needed.
sooperspook 06-12-07, 04:18 AM	Superman doesn't draw his energy from the sun as he needs is, as evidenced by the fact that he retains his superpowers at night and when away from Earth, but not in the presence of a red star or green kryptonite. He works more like a battery, storing the energy of the sun in his body and using it when needed. Yeah. And when he 'died' he was resurrected in a non superpowered clone body because the clone hadn't been exposed to years and years of sunlight. I think a no powered supes is slightly stronger than a human, but not enough to count as superhuman.
Crater 06-12-07, 01:17 PM	The stats for one of the more powerful deities could work, some divine ranks might just put things in perspective.
Ace_of_time 06-12-07, 05:59 PM	You are thinking of the new Superboy with his Tactilekenesis, which allows him to move *anything* he can touch, as if by super strength. Superman *does* have Super Strength and uses it. No I'm not thinking of superboy. He explains it in one of cartoons. And I'm not saying he doesn't have super Str just that some of the things that people think he use it for he doesn't. If he is picking up a car then that is super Str. If he is stopping a airplane from falling out of the sky thats his fly ability. Also not saying superstr doesn't help with this. If you don't believe me it is also in the movies. Where he extends his fly ability around Ms lane so they can fly together.
Ace_of_time 06-12-07, 06:07 PM	Superman doesn't draw his energy from the sun as he needs is, as evidenced by the fact that he retains his superpowers at night and when away from Earth, but not in the presence of a red star or green kryptonite. He works more like a battery, storing the energy of the sun in his body and using it when needed. The sun's rays come of the moon. In the comics they had the moon blocks out the sun for a long period and he starts to lose his powers. In the movies it would be the one with the guy made from the sun trapped him on the moon. He is also weak against electricity and magic.
KurenaiYami 06-12-07, 06:12 PM	The sun's rays come of the moon. In the comics they had the moon blocks out the sun for a long period and he starts to lose his powers. In the movies it would be the one with the guy made from the sun trapped him on the moon. So if that's true, he's lower on strength on the night of the new moon? Never seen that one.
Ace_of_time 06-12-07, 06:18 PM	So if that's true, he's lower on strength on the night of the new moon? Never seen that one. They point was that he doesn't lose str until long period of time, weeks maybe months befor losing his str. ( not including help from some things)
KurenaiYami 06-12-07, 06:19 PM	They point was that he doesn't lose str until long period of time, weeks maybe months befor losing his str. ( not including help from some things) So does the red sun just suck the strength straight from him, or are we talking about different versions of superman? Because I recall the sun going red and him being useless almost instantly.
Ace_of_time 06-12-07, 06:57 PM	So does the red sun just suck the strength straight from him, or are we talking about different versions of superman? Because I recall the sun going red and him being useless almost instantly. The red sun doesn't produced Same energy waves that he absorbs from our sun.
Flintlockhandmedown 06-12-07, 07:41 PM	Hey guys I just want to point out that superman pretty much definitely has higher str than any of the gods in Deities & Demigods. I mean, loads of em only have 32. They can't freaking knock a house over.
Optimator 06-12-07, 10:50 PM	I like how that one linked thread mentions him having "Virtual" gargantuan size, so he can weild bigger things, gain bonuses on grapples and bull rushes and all points in between.
Lionhearted 06-14-07, 06:43 PM	About superman? 1. Epic boards 2. Demi-god or even lesser deity (many people "revere" him) 3. Paragon template (He only remaining of his race right? is there a better exemple of the race anywhere else?)
Illithid_Tentacles 06-19-07, 06:07 PM	About superman? 1. Epic boards 2. Demi-god or even lesser deity (many people "revere" him) 3. Paragon template (He only remaining of his race right? is there a better exemple of the race anywhere else?) Supergirl, General Zod and his lackeys, and various other Kryptonians have appeared in movies, comics, cartoons, etc, and Superman was hardly the strongest of them. Remember how much trouble he had with Zod, Non, and Ursa in the movie?
Erato 06-19-07, 06:16 PM	I'm sorry if this is off topic, but what is a DMPC? Dungeon Master Player Character. An NPC that's part of the group and acts like a PC.
darksamuari 06-19-07, 06:32 PM	So umm... I keep seeing you guys flaunting how your boy Supes' is all powerful and can never be destroyed, ect... ect.. Let's not forget Doomsday, who is in all respects more powerful than Superman...
Ace_of_time 06-19-07, 06:37 PM	So umm... I keep seeing you guys flaunting how your boy Supes' is all powerful and can never be destroyed, ect... ect.. Let's not forget Doomsday, who is in all respects more powerful than Superman... That was his only real loss. He did fight his way out of hell you know.
darksamuari 06-19-07, 06:51 PM	That was his only real loss. He did fight his way out of hell you know. My point still stands, so lets not be putting superman on a pedestal... because my boy can always knock him off it!
KurenaiYami 06-19-07, 06:55 PM	The red sun doesn't produced Same energy waves that he absorbs from our sun. Do you not see how this conflicts with the comment I quoted in my last post? Well, not so much conflicts with, but fails to address the issue I brought up.
Ace_of_time 06-19-07, 08:57 PM	Do you not see how this conflicts with the comment I quoted in my last post? Well, not so much conflicts with, but fails to address the issue I brought up. It would work the same as if he was left in the dark for a long period of time. He would lose Str but the red sun doesn't suck it out. As to doomsday I thought he got killed.
cato 06-19-07, 09:43 PM	Superman cant be classed as a race, for one thing I dont even think he can use any sort of weapon. He has no monk skills, but his attacks are prolly considered slam attacks. According to the last superman movie he can lift a whole continent even under the mild effect of cryptonite.. As for older even the oldest comics we see him catch intercontinental missiles mid air or tackle down colossal creatures with a mere punch. Even in his oldest versions he was untouched after huge explosions, and unscathed by heavy machine guns, flames, and any sort of elemental or force damage. He has also been known to turn back time, and travel distances across continents in seconds. In other words, short of possessing cryptonite, defeating superman is next to impossible, and tbh if superman got some intellect buff, not even that would help a lot. Unless of course you have the crypton trap device, or you are from the krypton neighborhood yourself.
Ace_of_time 06-19-07, 11:02 PM	could have racial HD.
darksamuari 06-19-07, 11:05 PM	As to doomsday I thought he got killed. Yes and No.... You can temporary kill Doomsday but in a matter of time he will appear again stronger (he adapts to defend whatever killed him.) In other words, short of possessing cryptonite, defeating superman is next to impossible. DOOMSDAY!!!
Ace_of_time 06-19-07, 11:15 PM	Yes and No.... You can temporary kill Doomsday but in a matter of time he will appear again stronger (he adapts to defend whatever killed him.) DOOMSDAY!!! Then bat man shows up and sprays him head to two with lead form that hardens. Then superman flys him into the sun. Bye Bye doomsday.
cato 06-20-07, 12:02 AM	http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/showdown This is what really happens!
darksamuari 06-20-07, 12:37 AM	Then bat man shows up and sprays him head to two with lead form that hardens. Then superman flys him into the sun. Bye Bye doomsday. And than Doomsday appears in about a year with a complete defensive immunity to that tactic. What next? Come on, Bring it on!!!
KurenaiYami 06-20-07, 04:52 AM	What next? Come on, Bring it on!!! They take him back to the End of Time and hope nobody brings him back yet again?
cato 06-20-07, 08:40 AM	Mr Rogers pawns doomsday and everyone else, its been recorded in the final showdown..
darksamuari 06-20-07, 03:36 PM	They take him back to the End of Time and hope nobody brings him back yet again? Umm.... alright that tactic works but I will say that doesn't actually count seeing as that tactic would work on anyone, in anything... Still, in a straight up fight Doomsday can bring Superman down. So, anyone want to try to stat Doomsday?
KurenaiYami 06-20-07, 04:02 PM	Mr Rogers pawns doomsday and everyone else, its been recorded in the final showdown.. You mean the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny? Umm.... alright that tactic works but I will say that doesn't actually count seeing as that tactic would work on anyone, in anything... Well, that just makes it a really good tactic. It's still just as valid as any other.
Demon Lightfoot 06-20-07, 07:41 PM	For all y'all who're saying that Kal-El would be an Expert or level 1 fighter, Pre-Crisis, under the effects of a red sun lamp, he took on Muhammad Ali in a boxing match. Got his butt kicked, but he lasted quite a while in the ring. Also, he's invested with all the knowledge of Krypton, which, in the 70s, included Klurkor, aka Kryptonian Kung-Fu, which he also taught to Lois. Still, a real Kryptonian warrior would pimp-slap Kal pretty hard; Superman's superior skill with his powers would maybe save him, but he'd take an ugly beatdown otherwise. Some history: The original iteration of Superman had superpowers because Kryptonians were literally a race of supermen, leaping across town to get from place to place, superstrong, fast, supertough (though a "bursting shell" could penetrate their unEarthly hides). The "only has powers under a yellow sun" business came later. Speaking of suns and powers, in the "Dial H for HERO" comic in the late 70s early 80s, it was revealed that humans gain superpowers under either a blue or white sun, IIRC. /comic-book nerd
darksamuari 06-20-07, 07:58 PM	Well, that just makes it a really good tactic. It's still just as valid as any other. Alright, even with that. Doomsday still is alive, he's just bored... I still believe in a pure brawl, Doomsday is better.
Ace_of_time 06-20-07, 08:04 PM	And than Doomsday appears in about a year with a complete defensive immunity to that tactic. What next? Come on, Bring it on!!! When some one throws you in to the sun there is no coming back. Sorry. And the lead blocks his main defense. which would mean superman got a can of with your name on it. On the off chance that he did after a year batman has had time to think about the delivery system and spays him a different way which doomsday couldn't defend against then the sun then Batman hunts down every one who helped bring him back to make sure that it NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN
skydin 06-20-07, 08:10 PM	teleport doomsday to the moment jsut before the big bang happened about 2ft away from the dense-thingie.i dont think he is killed, or even destroyed, i think he is just rendered null without shape or form because out there matter would not exist. it would be like he never existed. or jsut to the end of time, how would he return in a year when there are no more years?
darksamuari 06-20-07, 11:00 PM	When some one throws you in to the sun there is no coming back. Sorry. And the lead blocks his main defense. which would mean superman got a can of with your name on it. On the off chance that he did after a year batman has had time to think about the delivery system and spays him a different way which doomsday couldn't defend against then the sun then Batman hunts down every one who helped bring him back to make sure that it NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN I don't think you understand Doomsday power.... really, I don't think you do.
Ace_of_time 06-21-07, 09:44 AM	what is it then?
cato 06-21-07, 01:24 PM	I disagree. Even under the effects of red sunlight, which negs his super powers, he's still proven himself to be a competent warrior. He's probably just taken a couple of epic feats that he can't use when his super-strength and superspeed go away. And he's not really THAT strong; a +25-30 racial bonus is probably good. Also, he can be hurt, just not easily. DR 20/- is good, especially as a supernatural ability that is taken away by Kryptonite. He can stop a plane without destroying and lift a continent out of the earth under a mild effect of kryptonite. He can take a bullet in the eye and survive an atomic explosion.. No those values are not close even..
Anodai 06-21-07, 01:41 PM	Look doomsday up on wikipedia. oh, and by the way, doomsday got out of Entropy/End of Time when Braniac freed him, then got emotions and fought against Gog... not sure what happened next...
KurenaiYami 06-21-07, 02:59 PM	what is it then? He has hyper-evolved past any weakness. If anything ever manages to kill him, he will regenerate and be immune to whatever it was that killed him. He was even vaporized by the Radiant, for crying out loud, which is just as bad as being hurled into the sun. His atoms reformed and he came back immune to the blasts from the Radiant. The only way to kill Doomsday is to make it so that his form simply can't regenerate. The End of Time was the place to do this.
darksamuari 06-21-07, 03:19 PM	The only way to kill Doomsday is to make it so that his form simply can't regenerate. The End of Time was the place to do this. The other way was Superman created 4 teleporters all next to each other and forced Doomsday to always be going through one of the 4 teleporters.
Gabriel Knight52 06-21-07, 09:49 PM	I was thinking Kryptonian should maybe be a bloodline feat. I found this (http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_deo/profiles/superman/superman.html)and came up with this: Hearing: 1500 ft. Strength: = 4500 Tons per character level Superspeed: 63,360,000 ft per rnd Flight: 145,000,000,000 ft per rnd ER = character age /magic, kryptonite, psionics DR= character age /magic, kryptonite, psionics 30 minutes without air Ray of Flame: 1d6 per character level Ray of Ice: 1d6 per character level -- I was thinking LA+10 per ability.:)
Ace_of_time 06-21-07, 10:37 PM	He can stop a plane without destroying and lift a continent out of the earth under a mild effect of kryptonite. He can take a bullet in the eye and survive an atomic explosion.. No those values are not close even.. Super Str ability takes his carrying cap and times it by 2 times Str mod. So if he had 18 on Str you would take CC and times it by 8. Survive does mean not hurt and the A bomb would over DR anyway. He could just have a resis to radation.
Ace_of_time 06-21-07, 10:48 PM	He has hyper-evolved past any weakness. If anything ever manages to kill him, he will regenerate and be immune to whatever it was that killed him. He was even vaporized by the Radiant, for crying out loud, which is just as bad as being hurled into the sun. His atoms reformed and he came back immune to the blasts from the Radiant. The only way to kill Doomsday is to make it so that his form simply can't regenerate. The End of Time was the place to do this. Ok. So how does he manger to reform and get out of the middle of the sun. If that is his power he would still be in the sun.
cato 06-21-07, 11:58 PM	Super Str ability takes his carrying cap and times it by 2 times Str mod. So if he had 18 on Str you would take CC and times it by 8. Survive does mean not hurt and the A bomb would over DR anyway. He could just have a resis to radation. An atomic explosion is not just "radiation dmg" It knocks down entire blocks with physical/wave dmg, and it radiates a heat the closer you are to its center which melts/vaporizes almost anything. Also whatever the carrying capacity is, he didnt merely carry it, he lifted it and actually beat the earths gravitational force while carrying it. Do you know how much force it takes even for a small missile to escape earths gravity? Doing that to an entire continent under the effect of kryptonite throws his str over the charts..
Darklight 06-22-07, 12:14 AM	Regarding the jokes about Superman having a Disguise bonus, that's untrue. He actually has mental telepathy. Here (http://superdickery.com/stupor/8.html) we can see his ability to consciously erase the memories of humans. Meanwhile, his super-hypnotism (http://superdickery.com/stupor/70.html) is a constant effect that prevents any being from identifying his Clark Kent persona as being the same as Superman. He was even vaporized by the Radiant, for crying out loud, which is just as bad as being hurled into the sun. (snip) The only way to kill Doomsday is to make it so that his form simply can't regenerate. The End of Time was the place to do this. Vaporization is actually nowhere near being thrown into the Sun (or any star). I'm sure my astrophysics isn't complete, but I believe that this would not only vaporize him, it would proceed to render him to his constituent atoms. These atoms would then undergo fusion, becoming entirely different atoms than whatever Doomsday was originally constructed with. If that doesn't work, toss him into a black hole. Not only is it possible that time becomes meaningless (that is, it would take him literally an infinite period of time to die), but even should he reform there is no force in the universe that could propel him back out of the hole. Should even that somehow fail, I suggest getting one's hands on some anti-matter (not literally!) and exposing Doomsday to it. The matter that comprises his body would be utterly annihilated - it would no longer exist, and thus couldn't regenerate. Last, and this is very important: what's the LA for super-kisses (http://www.superdickery.com/stupor/3.html)?
Ace_of_time 06-22-07, 01:17 AM	An atomic explosion is not just "radiation dmg" It knocks down entire blocks with physical/wave dmg, and it radiates a heat the closer you are to its center which melts/vaporizes almost anything. Also whatever the carrying capacity is, he didnt merely carry it, he lifted it and actually beat the earths gravitational force while carrying it. Do you know how much force it takes even for a small missile to escape earths gravity? Doing that to an entire continent under the effect of kryptonite throws his str over the charts.. so if he was immune to fire than he would be hit with the force damage. Your confusing RAW for real life and what he could do with fly. As long as it's a med or light load he would be able to fly with it and as I have pointed out most thing he push in the air he extends his fly around so it would take that much to push.
darksamuari 06-22-07, 02:12 AM	Ok. So how does he manger to reform and get out of the middle of the sun. If that is his power he would still be in the sun. No.... Doomsday would die. Than he would reform at a later time/place with a complete immunity to the sun's heat. He basically has the ability to adapt to any and all harmful effects upon him.
cato 06-22-07, 04:11 AM	so if he was immune to fire than he would be hit with the force damage. Your confusing RAW for real life and what he could do with fly. As long as it's a med or light load he would be able to fly with it and as I have pointed out most thing he push in the air he extends his fly around so it would take that much to push. What does not add up is that lets say the fly spell does not let you push things around if you could not do it before, in your reasoning superman can use fly to do that. Also even just lifting an entire continent under the effect of kryptonite means you have str 100+
Genetic 06-22-07, 09:21 AM	I got really bored yesterday and did some very rough calculations that put Superman's strength at about 189. Basically there is a comic book cover (on the site linked above... Super****ery) that shows Superman lifting two handfuls of neutron star matter. He says that they're kind of heavy "even for him." I used a half a cup of neutron star matter (1/4 cup in each hand) and then calculated the weight of that from the density. Setting that as his "heavy load," that put his Strength at 189. It's probably higher though, as the neutron star matter may be a medium load. 1/4 cup also is not exactly a precise measurement either... It was kind of just a guess. :)
Ace_of_time 06-22-07, 10:25 AM	The ability is more like levitate then fly. And whether it makes sense or not that is how he does. Even in the movie he takes Miss Lane up and gives her fly and they fly together side by side as long as she still touches him. In that super hero book M&M that is how it works. I convert it over to a class in D&D. Instend of ranks in a power your double for each str mod. +1/*2 +2/*4 +3/*8 +4/*16 +5/*32 +6/*64 +7/*128 +8/*256 +9/*512 That puts his CC max for a 28 str 614,400. His super speed would work the same but would start at *4. so On a reg move get 5' per mod and when he runs the the speed would be times 1024 and add 45' to speed on a reg move action that 75' move and on a run he would get 76,800' per round. And please don't forget that when he was growing up on the farm he would be lower level then when he in his last movie he throw the Big rock into space. Which he would have been epic level by then. Thats not including when he used the haste effect. that would mov it up to 105' reg and 107,520' per round. His super str would also allow a DR of 5 per mod giving him 45/-
cato 06-22-07, 02:11 PM	I got really bored yesterday and did some very rough calculations that put Superman's strength at about 189. Basically there is a comic book cover (on the site linked above... Super****ery) that shows Superman lifting two handfuls of neutron star matter. He says that they're kind of heavy "even for him." I used a half a cup of neutron star matter (1/4 cup in each hand) and then calculated the weight of that from the density. Setting that as his "heavy load," that put his Strength at 189. It's probably higher though, as the neutron star matter may be a medium load. 1/4 cup also is not exactly a precise measurement either... It was kind of just a guess. :) Seems about accurate :) 28 str is ridiculous , I think its the same strength as a bear or something.
Ace_of_time 06-22-07, 11:36 PM	No.... Doomsday would die. Than he would reform at a later time/place with a complete immunity to the sun's heat. He basically has the ability to adapt to any and all harmful effects upon him. Then I am right because there is more then one thing that would kill him in the sun so it would take about four trip to make him immune to them all. Frst the heat, then radation, then force of being in the sun, and so on.
Ace_of_time 06-22-07, 11:45 PM	Seems about accurate :) 28 str is ridiculous , I think its the same strength as a bear or something. With my super class He would get +2 every 4 level just like ability increase. So if he start with what I think at 1st level 28. Then at 20th he would have 38.
cato 06-23-07, 02:22 AM	well I could work i guess if you take it that lvl 1 was superman at 8 years old and right now he is at really high epic lvls.. You would have to simultaneously increase dexterity though since his hand eye coordination is phenomenal, and of course his constitution. So his template should be +2 stats for all physical stats + 2 per 2 lvls or so. According to some episodes he is also able to read entire books in a second, but I dont really know how mental stats reflect that exactly (he doesn't act close to a genius in general so i guess his intellect is not more than 12 -14 strategy/chess wise but in order to memorize books/info so fast he has a really inhuman memory.
Sim_antix 06-23-07, 03:12 AM	How could you leave out super weaving? I thought this was a joke... (http://www.superdickery.com/stupor/6.html)
Sim_antix 06-23-07, 03:19 AM	Super Landscaping. (http://www.superdickery.com/stupor/12.html) Make it happen!!!
KurenaiYami 06-23-07, 03:21 AM	Vaporization is actually nowhere near being thrown into the Sun (or any star). I'm sure my astrophysics isn't complete, but I believe that this would not only vaporize him, it would proceed to render him to his constituent atoms. These atoms would then undergo fusion, becoming entirely different atoms than whatever Doomsday was originally constructed with. If that doesn't work, toss him into a black hole. Not only is it possible that time becomes meaningless (that is, it would take him literally an infinite period of time to die), but even should he reform there is no force in the universe that could propel him back out of the hole. Should even that somehow fail, I suggest getting one's hands on some anti-matter (not literally!) and exposing Doomsday to it. The matter that comprises his body would be utterly annihilated - it would no longer exist, and thus couldn't regenerate. This is all very well and good, but you don't seem to realize that his ability is a direct result of the power of plot. Doomsday is, in fact, a comic book character, and the majority of his powers are derived from plot, not logic. In theory, he would in fact become immune to the sun and black holes. Does it make sense? No. Doomsday cannot be destroyed because his creators said so.
darksamuari 06-23-07, 01:14 PM	Does it make sense? No. Doomsday cannot be destroyed because his creators said so. Oh I'm sorry, is a COMIC BOOK CHARACTER not playing fairly???
Sim_antix 06-23-07, 02:20 PM	Oh I'm sorry, is a COMIC BOOK CHARACTER not playing fairly??? Actually that was KurenaiYami's entire point.
Ace_of_time 06-23-07, 04:49 PM	well I could work i guess if you take it that lvl 1 was superman at 8 years old and right now he is at really high epic lvls.. You would have to simultaneously increase dexterity though since his hand eye coordination is phenomenal, and of course his constitution. So his template should be +2 stats for all physical stats + 2 per 2 lvls or so. According to some episodes he is also able to read entire books in a second, but I dont really know how mental stats reflect that exactly (he doesn't act close to a genius in general so i guess his intellect is not more than 12 -14 strategy/chess wise but in order to memorize books/info so fast he has a really inhuman memory. These are effects of super speed plus I gave him a + 10 on physical stats. Super speed in the M&M you complete a task in half the time per rank. For D&D you could times the result times 2 per Dex mod. So on craft if you rolled 23 you would times it by 4 for a 16 Dex and then by the DC 20 and that would tell you how long it took to make .
KurenaiYami 06-23-07, 05:11 PM	Actually that was KurenaiYami's entire point. I'm glad somebody got it.
CaptKillern 06-23-07, 05:24 PM	I disagree. Even under the effects of red sunlight, which negs his super powers, he's still proven himself to be a competent warrior. In the movie Superman 2, which I don't know if the movies count or not in "official" superman debates, when he lost his powers he got his butt handed to him by a trucker in a bar... Later brave superman came back with his powers and beat the trucker up... I would agree with the thought that he is not that well trained, or anymore well trained than a 2nd string kansas football player with no college experience could be... Now if it turned out that Matt Hughes from the UFC was really a son of Krypton then I would definately agree on the combat prowess and strength...