Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kadomir 05-09-07, 04:32 PM	Ok guys this is my first attempt at this and I'm not entirely sure how this came out, but I want feedback (positive or negative). I have been trying to figure out how to make the Thri-kreen playable again (this is because I have found that an ECL of higher than 2 is unplayable, but this is my opinion). I also was not entirely pleased with the updated version of the race that has been put out. As such I have drawn from those sources but altered the race more to my liking and with a lower ECL. Although I would like to get an ECL of +1 but I don't think its possible, however if anyone thinks there is a way without seriously gutting the race further, I would love to hear it. I went with the sub species idea to create something which could be used with the regular Thri-kreen, and chose the T'keech since I always found them interesting but never saw them fleshed out anywhere. The T'keech I present here are supposed to be a further off shoot of their Tohr'kreen origins, who exist on plane other than Athas for whatever reason. Or they could even be used as regular T'keech I suppose. So here is my current write up: ________________________________________ ____________ Personality: The social evolution of this branch of Kreen is markedly different from their cousins in other worlds. These T’keech still possess the desire to form strong attachments to groups of people, but they do not view it as a pack. Their society changed to one of communal collectiveness, the T’keech act in what they believe is the best interest of the group. They are smart enough to realize they should ask the opinion of others is some situations, but will still engage a perceived threat with little to no hesitation like their cousins. In groups with non-kreen, the T’keech tend to take up supporting roles with little question, they realize they do not understand the non-kreen world and do not wish to harm their group with their actions. They do not challenge for leadership in the normal kreen way, although duels are sometimes still used, they often take up the leadership roles because they are suited to it or because no one else will take it. As a people they always try to match their abilities to the job at hand, playing the role they are best suited for whenever possible. Physical Description: Physically they are similar to other Thri-Kreen save that their Chitin is colored a mottled green, better suited for forest or jungle environments. They also possess the three fingered hands of their Jeral cousins, hinting at possible crossbreeding in their past. Relations: The T’keech still view much of the world in the predator/prey relationship, but also realize that other sentient races shouldn’t necessarily be hunted. Although still the noble hunters, they do have settlements of a sort with their own herds (generally kanks that were brought with them from Athas). These people are considered worthy of attention, but even the herdsman hunt from time to time. Alignment: The T’keech possess more societal understanding than their cousins (probably due to their Tohr’Kreen heritage) and thus run the spectrum between law and chaos. They do not often understand the non-kreen concepts of good and evil, and are generally neutral in that regard. Most tend towards a true neutral outlook. T’keech lands: Like their cousins, the T’keech like warmth compared to cold, so they are commonly found in Jungle regions. However it is not unheard of for them to exist in more temperate forests. Religion: The T’keech maintain the nature worship of their ancestors, but may worship other deities of nature if thought appropriate. Language and names: As thri-kreen Adventuring: Even though they do not possess the natural Psionic talents of their cousins, the T’keech tend towards the psionic end of the spectrum and thus prefer psionic classes. If in a world where psionics do not exist they prefer the nature oriented classes. T’keech (Thri-Kreen offshoot of the original subspecies) • +4 dexterity, -2 intelligence, +2 wisdom, -4 Charisma • Monstrous Humanoid • Medium creature • Land speed 40ft • Darkvision 60ft • Immunity to sleep effects • +3 natural Armor • Multiple Limbs: T’keech have 4 arms, and thus can take the multiweapon fighting feat and the Multiattack Feat. • Natural Attacks: T’keech can attack with four claws and a bite. The claws deal 1d4 points of damage and the bite is a secondary attack that also deals 1d4 points of damage. A T’keech can attack with a weapon at its normal attack bonus and make either a bite or a claw attack as a secondary attack. • Leap: +30 racial to jump checks • Weapon Familiarity: Gythka, Chatkcha, and Zerka • Favored Class: Psychic Warrior (Ranger in non-psionic worlds) • ECL +2 Note on removal of poison: This was for balance reasons, I felt leaving it in would push its power level up too high. For flavor purposes they still produce “poison” but it lacks the strength of other Kreen, in other words its numbing but wont paralyze you or deal ability damage (IE its useless in combat) however they can still produce Dasl with the appropriate catalyst. Note on the Zerka: I added this as a trade off for their lack of poison, the T’keech began using this barbed javelin as a method of hindering the movement of prey. They always use it with an attached line and either tie it to a immovable object or attempt to pull the subject down with the line themselves. Use the stats available at Athas.org. Note on the removal of natural psionic abilities: I personnaly don’t like the addition of the natural psionics to the thri-kreen in general (although it keeps with the new Dark Sun feel). I removed it both to lessen the power level and to give the race the feel I want it to have. Note on the removal of Deflect Arrows: Even in 2nd edition I never understood the rational for their ability to dodge missiles. I just don’t think it’s necessary. ________________________________________ ____________ Thats its, again all feed back is welcome. -Kadomir
kadomir 05-14-07, 02:12 PM	Please could I have some feedback? Im not evil, I swear. Im looking to use this in a game in the not to distant future and I would really like to have a balanced race to use. Again, please, any kind of feedback would be appreciated. -Kadomir
skio 05-14-07, 02:56 PM	I have done more or less the same thing in a homebrew version of the Kreen (I love these guys). +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Con, -2 Cha. Medium: As medium-sized creatures, Kreen have no special bonuses or penalties due to size. Base land speed is 40ft. Darkvision up to 60ft. Kreen have no need for sleep and are immune to magical sleep effects. Spellcasters must still rest for 8 hours to regain spells. Multiple Limbs: Kreen have four arms, and thus can take the Multiweapon and Multiattack feats (these are not bonus feats). Weapon Familiarity: Kreen treat all double weapons as martial weapons. +3 natural armour bonus in AC. Kreen possess strong chitin exoskeletons. +2 racial bonus in Listen and Spot checks. A Kreen's antennae makes him better aware of his surroundings. +20 racial bonus in Jump checks. Kreen have very strong legs and are natural jumpers. Natural Weapon: Bite 1d4, Claw 1d4 Naturally Psionic: Kreen gain 2 bonus power points at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source. Alignment: usually neutral Favored class: Ranger or Psion Level Adjustment +1 I am not sure whether the LA should be +1 or +2. Shining South (FR supplement) gives the Kreen 2 racial HD and a +1 LA without the psi abilities. So I basically removed the HD and lessened the statistics to balance this loss.
Grizzled Gryphon 05-14-07, 06:26 PM	I would put them at LA +1. That would make a first level one ECL 2, by the way. Compared to the regular Thri-Kreen, they have lost the psi-like abilities, they have lost the racial hit die (which is what give the origonal Thri-Kreen an ECL, by the way), and the poison. With all that taken away, you have a much weaker creature, all in all. Compared to other LA+1 creatures, they seem to be right around the middle. I would use the Yabba the Whats feature point system, but I don't have a link to it, nor have I read it to the point where I understand how to apply it. Perhaps you can find it or ask someone else that does know it/have it available to use it to determine the LA of this fine race. Yes, I said 'fine race', as I like it a lot. This is very cool, as I have always loved the Thri-Kreen. However, they have too high an ECL for me to use them regularly. Kind of a little off topic, but have you looked at the back of the Complete Psion? They have a nice racial level advancement for the creatures in the XPH where they gain levels and there racial abilities over some levels. Takes that LA bite out somewhat. Not a perfect fix, but maybe it is getting them on the right track to fixing the whole LA problem. Again, nice race. I think it is well done, all in all. You mentioned at the top of the post the Tohr'Kreen, and other related races. What are these? i never got into Darksun, so I would love some info on these various creatures. I am not talking racial stats, or anything, just what backgorund info you know. Thanks!!
kadomir 05-16-07, 01:42 PM	Thanks for the feedback, I take it that you are saying I gave them too high of a LA (I realize I screwed up and said ECL). I have looked at the racial progressions, but I still dont like the way it works, I still feel you lose an awful lot due to the high LA and racial hit dice. I hate racial hit dice and am still not sure what the purpose of them is. As to Yabba the Whats FP, Ive looked at it and tried to use it but I dont believe it works well in this case. He doesnt have Psionics factored in yet and I think the extra arms is over pointed, but thats just me. I think Yabba is doing a great job, but I just didnt find it to work in this case. And lastly you asked about the tohr'kreen. The race I stated is actually considered Tohr'kreen in its first appearance. They are mentioned first in "The Thri-Kreen of Athas" which was theiir race book in 2nd edition. I dont know if you can still get a hold of it or not anymore. Anyway, the difference is actually a lot less significant than you might think. The book states that the name's themselves tell most of the story. "Kreen" means "the people", with "thri" meaning "wild" and "tohr" meaning "settled". Statistically all the kreen were the same in 2nd ed, although the T'keech were immune to chitin rot and lung infections in jungle environments (if you look at the old Monsters Manual this isnt true, but the Tohr'Kreen listed there was a bio-engineered scout, this is explained in the Racial book). Also the tohr'kreen were described as having an advanced civilization and possessed knowledge of bio-chemistry and some form of genetic engineering. There were 6 sub-species listed in total, 2 were thri-kreen, the other 4 were tohr'kreen. The tohr'kreen weren't explored as heavily as the thri-kreen but it looks like they should have different stats as 2 of them looked rather different and their fluff mentioned rather significant differences (one was all female and looked like a certain Athasan flower). Also there was a further explanation involving the subspecies names, a if a J began the name it meant their civilization was still strong, a T meant a fallen civilization. It seemed to simply mean that those with a J were more prominent and were the leaders, whereas the ones with a T were rarer and less sophisticated, but it wasn't entirely clear in the book (or my memory is failing me.) I'm sorry that that is so scrambled but it was all from memory, my book is unfortunately stored somewhere and I cant seem to find it right now. Otherwise thanks again for your feed back. If anyone else wants to add their two cents, Id still love to hear it. -Kadomir