Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alyss 06-11-07, 09:06 AM	How do I make a succubus? Is the template in a book? If it is, is there any way I can get it for free? I've already pinched off the succubus paladin on the D&D homepage, but I'm not sure about ability racial adjustments. Help?
Light_Colonel 06-11-07, 09:30 AM	How do I make a succubus? Is the template in a book? If it is, is there any way I can get it for free? I've already pinched off the succubus paladin on the D&D homepage, but I'm not sure about ability racial adjustments. Help? There is no Succubus template (that I know of); there is however a Succubus in the Monster Manual and I believe listed in the SRD as well. http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersDtoDe.html#succubus-demon
Alyss 06-11-07, 10:12 AM	Okay, well I just built one: Type: Medium Outsider (Extraplanar, Tanar’ri) Abilities: Dex +2, Int +2, Cha +10 Racial Hit Dice: 6d8 Speed: Gains a fly speed of 50 ft. with average mobility AC: +9 natural armour bonus Attack: Gains a claw attack (1d6 damage). BAB of +6 Special Attacks: -Energy drain (one negative level if succubus kisses/****s/so on) -Summon tanar’ri (1/day, summons babau, 30% success, equivalent of 3rd level spell) -Spell-like abilities (at will: charm monster, detect heretic, detect thoughts, ethereal jaunt [self + 50 lbs of gear only], polymorph [self, any humanoid only, no limt or duration], suggestion, greater teleport [self + 50 lbs of gear only]. CL=ECL+6 Special Abilities: DR 10/cold iron, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity + poision, resistance to acid, cold and fire 10, spell resistance 18, tongues, telepathy 100 ft. Saves: Base saves of +5 for each Skills: Outsider skill points = (8+Int mod) x3. Use class skills. Racial +8 on Listen and Spot. Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Presuassive LA: +6 Please PEACH. Note that I changed the Summon ability, because Babau are way more cool. Also: A 10th level rogue succubus has a ECL of 16 but a CR of 11. Why? CRs for NPCs with PC levels have a CR euqal to their ECL, don't they?
CaoSlayer 06-11-07, 10:33 AM	Succubus is a race, period. You are making something like a dwarf template.
Luis_Dragunov 06-11-07, 10:40 AM	There is already a succubus racial class progression in Savage Species (which doubles as Succubus and Incubus. Don't you just love incoherent material?). I'm not so sure I understand your Succubus Template though. Are succubus just templated creatures? And if so, what are their original creature type? I guess you could create a weaker version and call it something like a... Succubus Spawn template? They do inflict negative levels and mayhaps those so killed would rise not as undead but as native outsiders bound to the succubus much like vampire spawn are bound to their sires?
Alyss 06-11-07, 10:54 AM	This thing is just for purposes of creating succubus PCs, or succubi with PC levels. In the MM it says they have a LA of +6 but doesn't give any ability changes etc.. I'll have a look at the Savage Species book, that was one of the things I was after.
Doleth 06-11-07, 11:22 AM	You are not looking for a template at all then, you're looking for the racial modifier of a succubus. Also, a succubus rogue 10 has a ECL of 22, not 16, since she has 6 outsider HD, 10 rogue level and a LA of 6. There is already a succubus racial class progression in Savage Species (which doubles as Succubus and Incubus. Don't you just love incoherent material?). I don't get the last part, how is it incoherent material to give the same racial class progression for incubus and succubus? The only difference between the two is their gender.
Luis_Dragunov 06-11-07, 12:01 PM	I don't get the last part, how is it incoherent material to give the same racial class progression for incubus and succubus? The only difference between the two is their gender. Some sources say succubus are only female, other that they change gender at will and others insist that there is a whole separate kind of demon called Incubus. As for finding the racial modifiers of the succubus, subtract either 10 or 11 from the stated scores until you have an even number.
RobbyPants 06-11-07, 12:09 PM	This thing is just for purposes of creating succubus PCs, or succubi with PC levels. In the MM it says they have a LA of +6 but doesn't give any ability changes etc.. I'll have a look at the Savage Species book, that was one of the things I was after. The trick is knowing how to get that info from the monster entry. To get an ability mod, take the number in the MM (or SRD) and subtract 10 if it's even or 11 if it's odd. So a Str of 15 - 11 = a +4 Str mod. Now, one thing to note is if it's a humanoid with no racial hit dice. In this case, they will have one level of warrior, and their starting stats will be different. In this case, they always list the ability adjustments seperately at the end of the monster entry in the MM. If you want to add PC levels to a succubus, it's not that hard. Basicaly use these stat modifiers: Str +2 Dex +2 Con +2 Int +6 Wis +4 Cha +16 Also add a +9 natural bonus to the AC. Next, throw on the six racial hit dice and all of the special abilities.
Melayl 06-12-07, 03:49 AM	Perhaps This (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=749491) may be what you are looking for.
Alyss 06-12-07, 06:47 AM	The trick is knowing how to get that info from the monster entry. To get an ability mod, take the number in the MM (or SRD) and subtract 10 if it's even or 11 if it's odd. So a Str of 15 - 11 = a +4 Str mod. Now, one thing to note is if it's a humanoid with no racial hit dice. In this case, they will have one level of warrior, and their starting stats will be different. In this case, they always list the ability adjustments seperately at the end of the monster entry in the MM. If you want to add PC levels to a succubus, it's not that hard. Basicaly use these stat modifiers: Str +2 Dex +2 Con +2 Int +6 Wis +4 Cha +16 Also add a +9 natural bonus to the AC. Next, throw on the six racial hit dice and all of the special abilities. Wow. They're that high? Cheers, I'll take that. Succubus sorcerers are just plain filthy...
Morwen 06-12-07, 06:57 AM	Wow. They're that high? Cheers, I'll take that. Succubus sorcerers are just plain filthy... Well, they would be if they didn't get their 1st Sorcerer level when every Human Sorcerer PC would already be 13th level :)
Alyss 06-12-07, 09:40 AM	Yeah, but they already have a load of spell-like abilities already. And, no, the LA for a Succubus is +6, so this Human PC sorcerer would be 7th, not 13th
RobbyPants 06-12-07, 11:21 AM	Yeah, but they already have a load of spell-like abilities already. And, no, the LA for a Succubus is +6, so this Human PC sorcerer would be 7th, not 13th They come with 6 RHD (Racial Hit Dice) as well, which also need to be taken into account. Thus the 6 RHD + 6 LA + 1 PC level = ECL (Effective Character Level) 13. Now, don't fall into the pit of dropping the 6 RHD to lower the ECL by 6. They're a balancing factor. They're meant to deliberatly pull the power level of the PC down a bit for those forced 6 levels. RHD are weaker than class levels. If you were to remove them, you've have to up the LA to compensate. Granted, people can argue both ways wether or not a total ECL of 12 is too much, but the point being, by RAW, that's what it is and that's how it's applied.
CaoSlayer 06-12-07, 11:23 AM	Yeah, but they already have a load of spell-like abilities already. And, no, the LA for a Succubus is +6, so this Human PC sorcerer would be 7th, not 13th Wrong, LA can be +6 but succubus also have serveral racial hit dices that you must count for a PC. ECL, Efective Class Level the hd of a creature + LA. I cant remember how many hd had a succubus but was more that 5. Note that LA and racial HD have the design intention of making playing with something else that a core race sucky so the people who really wants to play as that race do it keeping away any powergamer.
Alyss 06-13-07, 04:51 AM	Now, here's what I want to talk about: Having bought and read Savage Species, I now know what you fine fellows are actually talking about. Which causes all kind of problems. The Monster Class system is fine for making NPCs, as they have a seperate CR. However, what about PCs? What PC is going to bother taking 12 levels of succubus, when they could be generally kicking arse as a sorcerer? The obvious solution is to let them multiclass mid-monster class, something the book tells you specifically not to do. However, I don't really see the logic: at the first level of succubus (for example), they suck, and don't get anything much. Why couldn't multi-classing be allowed? And, if there are good reasons why it can't, why should a PC take any monster class levels?
MushroomSpore 06-13-07, 05:15 AM	What PC is going to bother taking 12 levels of succubus, when they could be generally kicking arse as a sorcerer? Why the fixation on sorcerer? Jeez, have some imagination. :P Bard? Rogue? The whole HOST of prestige classes one might qualify for?
Arivia 06-13-07, 05:22 AM	Some sources say succubus are only female, other that they change gender at will and others insist that there is a whole separate kind of demon called Incubus. Not in D&D. If you'd like to quibble about real mythology, play Vampire or something else more amenable to such concerns.
zeratulcraft 06-13-07, 05:29 AM	Now, here's what I want to talk about: Having bought and read Savage Species, I now know what you fine fellows are actually talking about. Which causes all kind of problems. The Monster Class system is fine for making NPCs, as they have a seperate CR. However, what about PCs? What PC is going to bother taking 12 levels of succubus, when they could be generally kicking arse as a sorcerer? The obvious solution is to let them multiclass mid-monster class, something the book tells you specifically not to do. However, I don't really see the logic: at the first level of succubus (for example), they suck, and don't get anything much. Why couldn't multi-classing be allowed? And, if there are good reasons why it can't, why should a PC take any monster class levels? Because your monster has fully grown when they have taken all those racial HD and levels. Before that it's generally assumed you're still growing.
Kezarim 06-13-07, 05:49 AM	Because they have to. Want to be a succubus? take 12 levels of monster class. Another way of doing it? No. The monster classes are there to allow players to play something strong from 1st level on, so they CAN actually play it, and don't have to wait until the party is 13th level to join the group. Monster classes aren't there to punish players, but to help them play what they want.
CaoSlayer 06-13-07, 09:30 AM	The Monster Class system is fine for making NPCs, as they have a seperate CR. However, what about PCs? What PC is going to bother taking 12 levels of succubus, when they could be generally kicking arse as a sorcerer? Because a lousy level 1 sorcerer spell casted by a succubus have the same dc that a level 9 spell casted by a regular human sorcerer. The succubus have a huge advantage of a +8 to the DC of this spells and SAs, if the succubs were just a La +6 with no racial dice would be way better that a level 7 sorcerer. ECL if something done ad hoc and so it only works well when you are using the optimal class/race combination and stinks if you are doing something not as optimal like a rogue/succubus. I recomend to modify the ECL of the races in funtion of the class that is going to be.
Alyss 06-13-07, 10:08 AM	Cheers Cao Slayer. Odd to see such frosty reactions from everyone else about my last question...
MushroomSpore 06-13-07, 04:18 PM	not as optimal like a rogue/succubus I beg to differ. ;) A rogue with inherent fly speed, high natural armor, two discreet and easily concealed natural weapons (claws), a wide array of disguise/mind-controlling spells and the power to turn ethereal and greater teleport at WILL, plus a ton of good immunities and resistances and DR, telepathy (work with your allies right under the enemy's nose!) and the ability to speak any language...and their racial class skills which are already rogue-y... To say nothing of the fact that you'd be the perfect assassin, able to kill any living creature just by disguising yourself as the right race/gender and getting their attention? The king dies (happy :P ) in his bed and you teleport out, with no one ever the wiser. If you're upset because you'd be behind on sneak attack, then you're missing the point and your imagination-fu is weak. :cool:
Sunic_Flames 06-13-07, 04:33 PM	This applies to devils, not sure about demons but I think there's something about inherent magic... basically, 75% of racial HD are considered class levels of arcane spellcasting but you can't actually cast spells freely unless you have 1 or more levels in a suitable class, meaning a succubus sorc 1 casts spells as a 5th level sorc and is therefore 8 levels behind instead of 12. *shrugs*
MushroomSpore 06-13-07, 04:35 PM	This applies to devils, not sure about demons but I think there's something about inherent magic... basically, 75% of racial HD are considered class levels of arcane spellcasting but you can't actually cast spells freely unless you have 1 or more levels in a suitable class, meaning a succubus sorc 1 casts spells as a 5th level sorc and is therefore 8 levels behind instead of 12. *shrugs* Um, no.
malykoth 06-13-07, 08:47 PM	This applies to devils, not sure about demons but I think there's something about inherent magic... basically, 75% of racial HD are considered class levels of arcane spellcasting but you can't actually cast spells freely unless you have 1 or more levels in a suitable class, meaning a succubus sorc 1 casts spells as a 5th level sorc and is therefore 8 levels behind instead of 12. *shrugs* What's your source on this?
Alyss 06-14-07, 04:59 AM	Why the fixation on sorcerer? Jeez, have some imagination. :P Bard? Rogue? The whole HOST of prestige classes one might qualify for? My particular succubus is a rogue/twistpocket. I was using sorcerer as an example. Kidly go spork yourself :cool:
CaoSlayer 06-14-07, 12:43 PM	umm, still I think that rogue and succubus dont match, succubus favor spellcasting because the insane charisma mod. and rogues favor sneak attack and skills. Saving for charisma skills a regular rogue is much better. The race isnt worth an ECL of 12 for a rogue unless you are running a solo campaign or any other kind of campaign that allows you to act as a spy. The bad thing of being a spy is a regular d&d game is the paladin close to you. Play better as a beguiller.
MushroomSpore 06-14-07, 03:52 PM	My particular succubus is a rogue/twistpocket. I was using sorcerer as an example. Kidly go spork yourself :cool: Well, excuse *me* for reading what you posted (although it wasn't even *you* I was responding to) instead of reading your mind. Sir. :P succubus favor spellcasting because the insane charisma mod. and rogues favor sneak attack and skills. I still disagree with you. Okay, leaving out the Charisma skills, you still have a rogue with stealth skills...which is irrelevant anyway because you can become ethereal at will and teleport at will. Heck, you can take, what, fifty pounds of objects with you? Take out a fifty-pound square from the enemy fortress' support beams...rinse, repeat. :eek: If you're that fixated on sneak attack as the only POSSIBLE way to be effective in combat, then of course they'll be behind. But by your logic they shouldn't "favor" sorcerer at all, because they'd be just as worthless at it due to being so many levels behind. :P But then, a level one sorcerer can pick up some illusion spells. Silent Image, Ventriloquism...meshing with their existing spells, shapeshifting, and skills? Again, a little imagination can result in terrifying effectiveness. No, you won't be able to throw around +8 DC fireballs or whatever, but succubi/incubi are about being SUBTLE, aren't they? :P
CaoSlayer 06-14-07, 04:35 PM	Fireball is the last thing in my mind, I was thinking more about save or die or save or be utterly screwed. by those levels rogues can aford stuff like rings of blinking and invisibility so stealth isnt a trouble, not talking about the insane ranks in hide and move silently they can get while a succubus cant get a item for the lost sneak attack. And the point can be reversed. Why be a rogue if you can teleport and become invisible at will? Rogues are all about sneak attack in a fight, seriously, a rogue SUCKS without sneak attack.
lifebleeder 06-14-07, 07:46 PM	Fireball is the last thing in my mind, I was thinking more about save or die or save or be utterly screwed. by those levels rogues can aford stuff like rings of blinking and invisibility so stealth isnt a trouble, not talking about the insane ranks in hide and move silently they can get while a succubus cant get a item for the lost sneak attack. And the point can be reversed. Why be a rogue if you can teleport and become invisible at will? Rogues are all about sneak attack in a fight, seriously, a rogue SUCKS without sneak attack. ...Ignoring the fact that you can use suggestion and charm monster at will (highly save-or-die, ne?), the whole reason rogues have sneak attack is to make them lethal in certain situations. The invisibility and teleportation are just really awesome boosts. Oh, and by the way? Those rings you mentioned? 27k and 20k, respectively. The projected wealth by 13th level is 110k total, so if you want to spend 40% of your wealth on two rings, be my guest. And as for why? Assuming (and this is improbable, but possible) an 18 Int rolled, you'd have 14 skill points a level. That'll help out with things tremendously (not to mention trap sense, uncanny dodge, trapfinding, exclusive skills like Disable Device, and evasion.) That's why you take rogue.
Willie the Duck 06-14-07, 08:55 PM	My particular succubus is a rogue/twistpocket. I was using sorcerer as an example. Kidly go spork yourself :cool: You've only been here a month, so some slack will be cut. I know there are a lot of message boards out on the internet where this kind of behavior is acceptable. This is not one of those boards.
CaoSlayer 06-15-07, 01:50 AM	...Ignoring the fact that you can use suggestion and charm monster at will (highly save-or-die, ne?), the whole reason rogues have sneak attack is to make them lethal in certain situations. The invisibility and teleportation are just really awesome boosts. Oh, and by the way? Those rings you mentioned? 27k and 20k, respectively. The projected wealth by 13th level is 110k total, so if you want to spend 40% of your wealth on two rings, be my guest. And as for why? Assuming (and this is improbable, but possible) an 18 Int rolled, you'd have 14 skill points a level. That'll help out with things tremendously (not to mention trap sense, uncanny dodge, trapfinding, exclusive skills like Disable Device, and evasion.) That's why you take rogue. No, Im not ignoring it, since those SA are the thing that are going to keep a succubus useful the first levels until the sorcerer/bard/beguiller get some useful spells. Of course the succubus rogue would have to spend money on magical armor and stat enchancers for trying to keep herself alive. we are talking about someone with and average of 33hp by level 11.
Rerecros 06-15-07, 01:53 AM	For a playable half-succubi, I'd just apply half-fiend to a changeling :D
Alyss 06-15-07, 04:52 AM	You've only been here a month, so some slack will be cut. I know there are a lot of message boards out on the internet where this kind of behavior is acceptable. This is not one of those boards. [Shoots self in disbelief] My apologies plain-clothes moderator. I will try to be more subtle with my srcastic returns in the future. My comment was meant in a light-hearted way (hence the 'spork' instead of an expletetive). Obviously, light-hearted insults are not what This Board wants, so I will restrain myself to posting cold, clinical sneak attacks, should I feel moved to do so. I do hope everyone reading this topic is aware what a spork is.
Alyss 06-15-07, 04:53 AM	Everyone else, thank you for contributing to what has been a very useful thread.