Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ClimbingEast 04-12-07, 02:26 AM	Hey people! I'm not sure exactly where this question belongs, so re-direct me if I'm wrong here (: When applying a template to a character, such as "Half-Celestial", how are the characters hitdice, skillpoints, saves, BAB and such affects by the change? As an exmaple, if I were to have a level 1 human fighter with 10's stats across the board, and applied Half Celestial (a +4 LA template), would the character only have Fighter 1 skill points, the single d10 hitdie, BAB and such? I am confused about this because under the Half-Celestial template entry, it specifies that the character gains skill points as an Outsider. I don't understand how a template can assign skill points, when a character isn't actually gaining levels through it. Anyhow, I think its pretty clear I didn't get much out of reading through the Core-books on this particular topic. Level adjustment always confused the heck out of me. If someone wouldn't mind detailling the process of applying the template in the example given, I'd greatly appreciate it.
calronmoonflower 04-12-07, 02:32 AM	The template only changes racial hit die and the benefit of such. Class level skills ans such are unaffected.
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-12-07, 11:43 AM	The template only changes racial hit die and the benefit of such. Class level skills ans such are unaffected. Yep. Class levels remain unchanged unless specifically stated (vampires and liches do change class Hit Dice).
Peregrine_Wolf 04-12-07, 04:46 PM	It IS kinda confusing. But I've figured out that you get eveything from your class. Then, anything that your template gives you is added. an example for your fighter there is... str-14 dex-12 con-14 int-12 wis-14 cha-14 skill points-52 skill points(12 from fighter skills point and 40 from half-celestial skill points) feats-3 feats spec. abil.- all special abilities such as spell-like abilities from half-celestial and the possibility of wings. hope this helped
DEMONisbest 04-12-07, 04:50 PM	str-14 dex-12 con-14 int-12 wis-14 cha-14 skill points-52 skill points(12 from fighter skills point and 40 from half-celestial skill points) What? Where? How? Why? :confused:
Keenath 04-12-07, 05:17 PM	It IS kinda confusing. But I've figured out that you get eveything from your class. Then, anything that your template gives you is added. an example for your fighter there is... str-14 dex-12 con-14 int-12 wis-14 cha-14 skill points-52 skill points(12 from fighter skills point and 40 from half-celestial skill points) feats-3 feats spec. abil.- all special abilities such as spell-like abilities from half-celestial and the possibility of wings. hope this helpedNO! WRONG! NO! You aren't helping! Read the template text: "A half-celestial gains skill points as an outsider and has skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier) × (HD +3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation—the half-celestial gains outsider skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels." Normal PC races don't have any racial hit dice, so that part is not relevant to them. Okay, here. Say we want a half-celestial Centaur. It has four racial hit dice, which are Monstrous Humanoid dice. Those 4 dice normally give it 7 x (2 + Int modifier) skill points; if we apply the template, those skill points are REMOVED, and they're replaced by 7 x (8 + Int modifier) skill points. If that centaur then takes three levels of figher, he gains only the normal 3x(2+int) additional skill points. Now, there is one exception. Racial abilities that are based on HD, like the bonus damage to your smite attack, spell resistance, or the spell like abilities available to you, DO count class levels. So as you level up, you'll gain new spell like abilities and so on. You don't modify your skills or anything else, though. When applying a template to a character, such as "Half-Celestial", how are the characters hitdice, skillpoints, saves, BAB and such affects by the change?To reiterate and be perfectly clear: If you don't have any racial hit dice, your HD, skill points, saves, and BAB are not changed at all. If you did have some racial hit dice, you'd change them to Outsider hit dice instead of their previous type, and the template lays out what Outsider hit dice grant (BAB equal to HD, etc).
Keenath 04-12-07, 05:32 PM	A level 1 human fighter with 10s across all stats and the Half-Celestial template would look like this (and I'll bold things that are different from your standard human fighter): Half-Celestial Human Fighter 1 Type: Medium Outsider (Native) Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 14. Hit Dice: 1d10+2 Initiative: +1 Speed: 30 AC: 12 (+1 dex, natural armor +1) Base Attack: +1 Space: 5ft Special Attacks: Daylight at will Smite Evil 1/day Protection from Evil 3/day Bless 1/day Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 Immune to disease Resistance 10 to Acid, Cold, and Electricity DR 5/magic SR 11 +4 racial bonus on Fort saves against poison Saves: Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +2 Skill points: 3 Feats: any 2 plus 1 fighter bonus feat
HawkTheOne-Handed 04-12-07, 06:00 PM	How would this same character (if a wizard/sorcerer) function under the effects of an Alter Self spell? Could he turn into half-celestial versions of humanoids (up to 5hd limit) + the only Outsider, good within the size limitations allowable: Archon, Lantern or is he stuck with the only Lantern form (only outsider, good I know of of size small to large under 5hd) Edit: Keenath forgot the flight speed 60 (2x base speed).
DEMONisbest 04-12-07, 06:09 PM	You cant use alter-self to change to any creature with a template.
ClimbingEast 04-12-07, 06:22 PM	Ahh, great! I missed the distinction between racial hit dice, class levels and level adjustment; thanks for clearing that up for me!
HawkTheOne-Handed 04-12-07, 06:31 PM	You cant use alter-self to change to any creature with a template. So a half-celestial human casting alter self is stuck only with the lantern form (the rules do say that you can even use the spell to change into yourself ).
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-12-07, 10:06 PM	Ahh, great! I missed the distinction between racial hit dice, class levels and level adjustment; thanks for clearing that up for me! You're welcome. Feel free to ask on the boards again!
kyros_the_spawnslayer 04-19-07, 08:21 PM	I have a little template question two. Now the 1/2 dragon template and draconic template could not be normally applied to a warforged due to they are living constructs right? Well what if a warforge has taken levels in dargon devotee and of Dragon Discipile, would the warforge gain the templates then. Also this question kinda applies to all PrCs that end up appling a template.
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-19-07, 10:14 PM	I have a little template question two. Now the 1/2 dragon template and draconic template could not be normally applied to a warforged due to they are living constructs right? Well what if a warforge has taken levels in dargon devotee and of Dragon Discipile, would the warforge gain the templates then. Also this question kinda applies to all PrCs that end up appling a template. Half-dragon can be applied to any living, corporeal creature. Warforged are living, so they can get it. I don't have Draconian. Dragon Disciple only applies to non-dragons, so any non-dragon could conceivably take it.
calronmoonflower 04-20-07, 01:46 AM	I have a little template question two. Now the 1/2 dragon template and draconic template could not be normally applied to a warforged due to they are living constructs right? Both those templates can be applies to warforged.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 04-20-07, 11:02 AM	Well I was just making sure that the fact they are constructs, living ones, and didn't know if that interfered with it at all.
Peregrine_Wolf 04-20-07, 03:44 PM	Sorry if my earlier post didn't help....I'm stuck using a PHB 3.0 and MM3 and that is how I understood it from that.... :nonono: