Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nat_20 08-02-07, 10:38 AM	Ok, im not sure if this has been brought up or not so im just gonna throw this out there... K? me and a buddy were talking about templates and large Lvl Adj races and they always seem to suck when compared to player races of the equal class levels... I mean they hit harder, cast spells better, have more hit points and better saves... now i know that this is because WotC wants the player races to be the standard but i like the idea of stronger races, but more often than not your a weaker character for going with them... Does anyone else see this as redundant? Now im not saying Templates or Races are bad picks, but sometimes i dont see the abilities given as a good trade off for hit die and what not. So me and my buddy had the though, what if instead of just sacrificing levels for those abilities, you treat them like a class level, meaning that you give them a BAB, Saves, and Hit Dice.... Now im not saying really good ones, but none is just kinda dumb... Heres my idea... Give them bonus's to saves(treat the saves as the poor progression equal to class levels), D4/D6 hit dice(depending on the flavor of the race/template), and a 1/2 or 3/4 BAB(progression equal to class levels) Example: Steve the 10th level Cleric is a Half-Celestial(lvl adj +4). So instead of killing his saves and what not, he gains 4D6 hit dice, +3 BAB, and +1 to Fort, Ref, and Will. Not huge bonus's, but not all that bad. It like leveling up in a "Celestial" class. That way Steve is almost up to par with the other 10th level characters... not just a 6th level one with neat abilities... Now keep in mind, i dont think this should apply to all templates or races, like my buddy said that maybe the level adjustment should be knocked up by one more level with these bonus's, but with this stuff its not that big of a deal... at lease IMO Any comments or ideas on my little idea????
Arkeas 08-02-07, 04:54 PM	You could just decrease the level adjustment when you think it becomes too much, or you could just try using the rules for lessening LA on page 18 of Unearthed Arcana.
IdleAltruism 08-02-07, 05:08 PM	This pushes creatures with LA above their CR. Which would unbalance things. Also one of the drawbacks of having a LA is lower Hps(in most cases). Alot of LAs/template really aren't all that bad. They can all be useful, maybe some of them aren't as useful to players but thats not really something they should be concerned about. You don't play NPC classes so why would you play an NPC race? Sure they might be cool but the aristocrat can be a cool character concept that doesn't mean its on par with the average adventuring class.
Nat_20 08-03-07, 02:50 AM	yeah, i agree that the CR of them will go up, but i like my players to have something interesting to play as, so i thought this way a cool character race would be more playable, like a vampire player would have to sacrifice 8 levels of hit dice, saves and BAB for a couple of neat abilities... there is no way anyone would pick this template... its just not worth it... i guess this is my attempt on making the game funner for people with cool ideas, but want non-sucky characters.... Also i dont see why they would be that far below par when equaled to other base races of equal ECL, i mean people play D&D to play as something cool, not just a little different than a human... yeah, the base races have a bit of diversity, but from a mechanics stand point, they are really the most powerful races just because they can gain all class abilities and have no penalty.... with my system a player sacrifices the abilities given by a class for racial abilities given by level adjustment... is that so wrong? can anyone help me come up with a way of making this idea balanced????
IdleAltruism 08-03-07, 03:04 AM	The idea in itself isn't balanced because then you'd have to figure out how every monster would react to this change and everything would go wonky. Like I said before most races that have high LA because their abilities are to powerful not to have it. They may not be so useful to a player but they are to the race. I understand why you would want to play more powerful races, but it really isn't essential to the D&D experience. You can have fun with the same old base races Really its how much effort you put into the game. Flashy races and special abilities doesn't change this fact. If you really want to play NPC races make everyone play them or make everyone play something of equal power. If you just can't handle the "weakness" of one race make a new version yourself or a new race entirely. There is no "fix" to LA they are usually pretty fair, a little off but still its a very rough system.