The Elven Subrace compendium [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Elven Subrace compendium [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Johnny_Angel
03-17-07, 01:52 AM If anything needs a compendium, I think this does. I'm sure there are enough to fill 160-pages.
Arivia
03-17-07, 02:07 AM The real question is: why?
Johnny_Angel
03-17-07, 02:10 AM 1) I was joking.

Although...

2) I honestly believe it would sell a few copies.
Prince_of_Murder_Kinghall
03-17-07, 02:28 AM I think the pages would be better spent for anouther series of BoVD like books.
bonethug0108
03-17-07, 03:11 AM They're already releasing a book on the subrace people most use. To release another book now would be next to pointless unless you were a hardcore elf fan(which I know some people, like my girlfriend, are:P).

I think a book on all the subraces of the core races, or maybe 2 or 3 races and their subs at a time, would be alot better. It would have a lot less on they "main" race, but still go into the history of them in relation to their subs.
Nihzlet
03-17-07, 03:39 AM i dunno about you guys, but i totally need 30 pages written by WotC on how i should play a grey elf, being as theyre obviously so different from high elves. and then i need another 30 pages on playing a wild elf, in case i play one again, though my last one was well received.

:P
bonethug0108
03-17-07, 03:50 AM I'm thinking more fluff, like the races series. You don't need any books to tell you how to play your character.

I think a book that had 5 or 6 subrace descriptions would be an interesting read. I liked reading the race series. Not everything needs to be crunch. Though that's what most people around here only seem to care about.

But it's doubtful we'd every see anything like it.
Mkall
03-17-07, 01:50 PM I've made a document with stats for all the PC races. I'm sure that has all the elven subraces in it.
Genghis Cohen
03-17-07, 02:23 PM For me the problem is that RotW only dealt with High Elves. It really woudn't have killed them to throw in a page for each of the other Greyhawk subraces. Aquatic, Drow, Gray, Snow, Valley, Wild, and Wood would have taken up seven pages.

Better yet, they could have dropped the 26 pages on the Raptorans. The ideas for that race which gave it a LA of 0 could have been used to make a new winged elven race with an LA of 0. This could have been done in four pages.

The leftover space could have gotten us single page writeups on the other halfling subraces and a 3.5 versions of the Deepwood Sniper and Windrider.
Kadasbrass
03-17-07, 02:24 PM I wouldn't call a +2 LA race the most commonly used elven subrace :P I think Grey Elf (Wizard/Arcivist/Psion) is the more commonly used elven subrace.
Genghis Cohen
03-17-07, 02:26 PM I wouldn't call a +2 LA race the most commonly used elven subrace :P I think Grey Elf (Wizard/Arcivist/Psion) is the more commonly used elven subrace.If you look at the Nyrond.org site, Gray is the most popular followed by Wood. Granted this is for Living Greyhawk where Drow is not a PC race, but +2 LA makes Drow a very weak race to play.
Waldorf
03-17-07, 02:41 PM Elves are overdone. Definitely unneeded.
Emeramber
03-17-07, 02:49 PM And if they did an elfocentric book, we'd probably get a revised version of the Complete Book of Elves, complete with little (and not so little) power-ups. Remember, in 2nd edition, the average elf's singing was equal to the greatest human bard, and dwarves were known to be blinded by the stunning beauty of elven cities.

2nd edition ingrained a hate of elves that I fear I will never fully overcome. I occassionally play them, since in 3rd edition they aren't as bad, but I can never fully lose my bitterness.
ShadowWarrior
03-17-07, 10:04 PM Let's see, a book of girly-men with pointy ears would cover: Aquatic, Arctic, Avariel, Blood, Cave, Dark, Desert, Forest, Gray, High, Hylian, Jungle, Moon, Mountain, Mutant, Night, Snow, Sun, Sylvan, Tundra, Valley, Wild, Winged, and Xerox. See if you can spot the references.

Joking aside, it's completely unrealistic how there is an elf for every clime and extremely minute detail. There's even elves for ability scores: strong elves, fast elves, smart elves, perceptive elves, charming elves (not sure if there's an elven subrace with a bonus to Con but I wouldn't be surprised, bloody annoying fictional species that desperately needs to experience a complete genocide). Now that I've got the elf-hate out of my system I feel a lot better.
Burgundy Lotus
03-18-07, 09:26 AM Let's see, a book of girly-men with pointy ears would cover: Aquatic, Arctic, Avariel, Blood, Cave, Dark, Desert, Forest, Gray, High, Hylian, Jungle, Moon, Mountain, Mutant, Night, Snow, Sun, Sylvan, Tundra, Valley, Wild, Winged, and Xerox. See if you can spot the references.

Avariel are Winged elves, and you missed Wood (Copper) Elves
Treymordin
03-18-07, 09:32 AM I think that Races of the Wild did a great disservice to the elves and the halflings. I thought it was goingto be more like the Complete Handbook of Elves in 2nd edition days. There was nothing on the various subtypes of elves. It would have been great to have info on the grey, wood, grugach, and aquatic elves.

Someone mentioned Snow Elves in Greyhawk? Where are those covered? There are also Desert Elves from a 1st edition module from the RPGA or whatever it used to be called? Polyhedron?
Genghis Cohen
03-18-07, 11:48 AM Someone mentioned Snow Elves in Greyhawk? Where are those covered? There are also Desert Elves from a 1st edition module from the RPGA or whatever it used to be called? Polyhedron?The earliest reference to Snow Elves in Greyhawk, of which I'm aware, is from an article in Dragon #155 from March of 1990. It says that they inhabit the Crystalmist Mountains. They also appear in Living Greyhawk material.
AZNsupermarket
03-18-07, 11:57 AM all wotc published elven sub-races:

Elves
High Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), players handbook pg.15
Aquatic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft. (swim 40 ft)., fighter, humanoid (elf, aquatic), monster manual pg.103
Artic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Str, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.9
Desert Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.12
Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.17
Forestlord Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., Treewalk (su), sorcerer, humanoid (elf), dragon magic pg.8
Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104
Jungle Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.14
Kagonesti: +2 Dex -2 Int -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), dragonlance campaign setting pg.18
Lesser Drow: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., (Cha 10 or better dancing lights, daze, touch of fatigue 1/day), wizard (male) and cleric (female), humanoid (elf), player’s guide to faerun pg.191
Moon Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.13
Qualinesti: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), ), dragonlance campaign setting pg.19
Painted Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., druid, humanoid (elf), sandstorm pg.42
Silvanesti: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), ), dragonlance campaign setting pg.20
Snow Elf: +2 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), frostburn pg.34
Star Elf: +2 Cha -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., otherworldly touch (su), extraplanar (su), bard, humanoid (elf), unapproachable east pg.10
Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15
Wild Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., sorcerer, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104
Wood Elf: +2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con -2 Int, meduim, 30 ft., ranger, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104

A few more:

Fey'ri (LA +2 and LA +3 versions)
Drow
Avariel
"lesser" Fey'ri
Psionic Elf
Deepwyrm Drow

Half-Elven Sub-Races:

Half-Elves
Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), players handbook pg.18
Aquatic Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft. (swim 15 ft.), any, humanoid (elf, human), stormwrack pg.45
Artic Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcane pg.10
Desert Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.12
Deepwyrm Half-Drow: none, medium, detect magic 3/day, disguise self 1/day, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human, dragonblood), dragon magic pg.6
Fire Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.18
Forestlord Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., Treewalk (su), sorcerer, humanoid (elf, human), dragon magic pg.8
Half-Drow: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), races of faerun pg.62
Half-Human Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf, human), dungeon master’s guide pg.171
Jungle Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.14
Erato
03-18-07, 12:48 PM I think people exaggerate about the so-called ‘million’ elven subraces.

They usually list all the Forgotten Realms (moon, sun, copper ect.) and Dragonlance (every race with the word ‘nesti’ in it) subraces, along with the standard ones, disregarding that only a 3rd of those exist in the same world. Then they list the environmental racial variants from UA, and possibly other variants, neatly ignoring how the books also contain tons variants of all the other core races. And finally, they use these ‘facts’ as ‘proof’ that the so-called ‘million’ elven subraces are ruining D&D for them :rolleyes:

C’mon, elves are as versatile as they’re annoying. They’re goody two shoes, they’re arrogant, highly civilized, with a deep connection to nature, and a few of them fall from grace in every book about them.
You can’t have all those dimensions and abilities in 1 character (especially without a LA). Even Tolkien made elven subraces.

BTW, I believe there’s actually more dwarven subraces than elven, despite the fact that dwarves are as 1-dimensional as any race ;)
NerdNumber1
03-18-07, 01:11 PM I've made a document with stats for all the PC races. I'm sure that has all the elven subraces in it.

Could you post it?
The Ubbergeek
03-18-07, 01:35 PM I think people exaggerate about the so-called ‘million’ elven subraces.

They usually list all the Forgotten Realms (moon, sun, copper ect.) and Dragonlance (every race with the word ‘nesti’ in it) subraces, along with the standard ones, disregarding that only a 3rd of those exist in the same world. Then they list the environmental racial variants from UA, and possibly other variants, neatly ignoring how the books also contain tons variants of all the other core races. And finally, they use these ‘facts’ as ‘proof’ that the so-called ‘million’ elven subraces are ruining D&D for them :rolleyes:

C’mon, elves are as versatile as they’re annoying. They’re goody two shoes, they’re arrogant, highly civilized, with a deep connection to nature, and a few of them fall from grace in every book about them.
You can’t have all those dimensions and abilities in 1 character (especially without a LA). Even Tolkien made elven subraces.

BTW, I believe there’s actually more dwarven subraces than elven, despite the fact that dwarves are as 1-dimensional as any race ;)

Indeed... It's not because they exist, that they exist in game actually, and in EVERY world. There is MUCH less subraces in play. The rest are options.

And truely, I hate how elves seems trashed all the time when the dwarves can be as annoying and get away with it.
NerdNumber1
03-18-07, 01:43 PM Indeed... It's not because they exist, that they exist in game actually, and in EVERY world. There is MUCH less subraces in play. The rest are options.

And truely, I hate how elves seems trashed all the time when the dwarves can be as annoying and get away with it.

Thats because elves are played more due to how over-romantisized they are. Do you want to be the thin, agile, tireless elf or the fat, short dwarf that drinks to much and has the speed of a rock. (I'm not flaming dwarves, its just that is how they look to beginers. Also, many works of fiction (non-D&D) show elves as naturaly magical, immortal, swifter, stronger, and all around more powerful than all other races.)
Treymordin
03-19-07, 01:34 AM You forgot to add the Dargonesti and the Dimernesti from Krynn and the Araviel.
sooperspook
03-19-07, 03:06 AM If my local gamer store ever stocks another book resembling, in any way, The complete Elves, I will burn it to the ground and dance on the ashes.

The only elves I actually like are Eberronian ones because they are refreshingly different , yet there is no mechanical difference. Just cultural ones.

Far, far superior to "every climate in existence has an elf subrace".

P.s I feel the same about pretty much all subraces.
Mkall
03-19-07, 10:27 AM Could you post it?

It's over 100 pages long and probably violates some kind of terms on this forum.

However, send me your email address and I'll see what I can do ;)
The Ubbergeek
03-19-07, 10:52 AM Thats because elves are played more due to how over-romantisized they are. Do you want to be the thin, agile, tireless elf or the fat, short dwarf that drinks to much and has the speed of a rock. (I'm not flaming dwarves, its just that is how they look to beginers. Also, many works of fiction (non-D&D) show elves as naturaly magical, immortal, swifter, stronger, and all around more powerful than all other races.)

And dwarves have a certain idealised romatic side to it -the 19th century version of the word 'romantism', mind you. A certain roughness, frontier spirit, a patriotic volkspirit, great skills, partying...

Elves are closer to my own ideals myself, albeit I am an humans guy. You can't go wrong with the sheer neutrality, the diversity and creativity of humans, and also with their drive. For good or ill.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Johnny_Angel 03-17-07, 01:52 AM	If anything needs a compendium, I think this does. I'm sure there are enough to fill 160-pages.
Arivia 03-17-07, 02:07 AM	The real question is: why?
Johnny_Angel 03-17-07, 02:10 AM	1) I was joking. Although... 2) I honestly believe it would sell a few copies.
Prince_of_Murder_Kinghall 03-17-07, 02:28 AM	I think the pages would be better spent for anouther series of BoVD like books.
bonethug0108 03-17-07, 03:11 AM	They're already releasing a book on the subrace people most use. To release another book now would be next to pointless unless you were a hardcore elf fan(which I know some people, like my girlfriend, are:P). I think a book on all the subraces of the core races, or maybe 2 or 3 races and their subs at a time, would be alot better. It would have a lot less on they "main" race, but still go into the history of them in relation to their subs.
Nihzlet 03-17-07, 03:39 AM	i dunno about you guys, but i totally need 30 pages written by WotC on how i should play a grey elf, being as theyre obviously so different from high elves. and then i need another 30 pages on playing a wild elf, in case i play one again, though my last one was well received. :P
bonethug0108 03-17-07, 03:50 AM	I'm thinking more fluff, like the races series. You don't need any books to tell you how to play your character. I think a book that had 5 or 6 subrace descriptions would be an interesting read. I liked reading the race series. Not everything needs to be crunch. Though that's what most people around here only seem to care about. But it's doubtful we'd every see anything like it.
Mkall 03-17-07, 01:50 PM	I've made a document with stats for all the PC races. I'm sure that has all the elven subraces in it.
Genghis Cohen 03-17-07, 02:23 PM	For me the problem is that RotW only dealt with High Elves. It really woudn't have killed them to throw in a page for each of the other Greyhawk subraces. Aquatic, Drow, Gray, Snow, Valley, Wild, and Wood would have taken up seven pages. Better yet, they could have dropped the 26 pages on the Raptorans. The ideas for that race which gave it a LA of 0 could have been used to make a new winged elven race with an LA of 0. This could have been done in four pages. The leftover space could have gotten us single page writeups on the other halfling subraces and a 3.5 versions of the Deepwood Sniper and Windrider.
Kadasbrass 03-17-07, 02:24 PM	I wouldn't call a +2 LA race the most commonly used elven subrace :P I think Grey Elf (Wizard/Arcivist/Psion) is the more commonly used elven subrace.
Genghis Cohen 03-17-07, 02:26 PM	I wouldn't call a +2 LA race the most commonly used elven subrace :P I think Grey Elf (Wizard/Arcivist/Psion) is the more commonly used elven subrace.If you look at the Nyrond.org site, Gray is the most popular followed by Wood. Granted this is for Living Greyhawk where Drow is not a PC race, but +2 LA makes Drow a very weak race to play.
Waldorf 03-17-07, 02:41 PM	Elves are overdone. Definitely unneeded.
Emeramber 03-17-07, 02:49 PM	And if they did an elfocentric book, we'd probably get a revised version of the Complete Book of Elves, complete with little (and not so little) power-ups. Remember, in 2nd edition, the average elf's singing was equal to the greatest human bard, and dwarves were known to be blinded by the stunning beauty of elven cities. 2nd edition ingrained a hate of elves that I fear I will never fully overcome. I occassionally play them, since in 3rd edition they aren't as bad, but I can never fully lose my bitterness.
ShadowWarrior 03-17-07, 10:04 PM	Let's see, a book of girly-men with pointy ears would cover: Aquatic, Arctic, Avariel, Blood, Cave, Dark, Desert, Forest, Gray, High, Hylian, Jungle, Moon, Mountain, Mutant, Night, Snow, Sun, Sylvan, Tundra, Valley, Wild, Winged, and Xerox. See if you can spot the references. Joking aside, it's completely unrealistic how there is an elf for every clime and extremely minute detail. There's even elves for ability scores: strong elves, fast elves, smart elves, perceptive elves, charming elves (not sure if there's an elven subrace with a bonus to Con but I wouldn't be surprised, bloody annoying fictional species that desperately needs to experience a complete genocide). Now that I've got the elf-hate out of my system I feel a lot better.
Burgundy Lotus 03-18-07, 09:26 AM	Let's see, a book of girly-men with pointy ears would cover: Aquatic, Arctic, Avariel, Blood, Cave, Dark, Desert, Forest, Gray, High, Hylian, Jungle, Moon, Mountain, Mutant, Night, Snow, Sun, Sylvan, Tundra, Valley, Wild, Winged, and Xerox. See if you can spot the references. Avariel are Winged elves, and you missed Wood (Copper) Elves
Treymordin 03-18-07, 09:32 AM	I think that Races of the Wild did a great disservice to the elves and the halflings. I thought it was goingto be more like the Complete Handbook of Elves in 2nd edition days. There was nothing on the various subtypes of elves. It would have been great to have info on the grey, wood, grugach, and aquatic elves. Someone mentioned Snow Elves in Greyhawk? Where are those covered? There are also Desert Elves from a 1st edition module from the RPGA or whatever it used to be called? Polyhedron?
Genghis Cohen 03-18-07, 11:48 AM	Someone mentioned Snow Elves in Greyhawk? Where are those covered? There are also Desert Elves from a 1st edition module from the RPGA or whatever it used to be called? Polyhedron?The earliest reference to Snow Elves in Greyhawk, of which I'm aware, is from an article in Dragon #155 from March of 1990. It says that they inhabit the Crystalmist Mountains. They also appear in Living Greyhawk material.
AZNsupermarket 03-18-07, 11:57 AM	all wotc published elven sub-races: Elves High Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), players handbook pg.15 Aquatic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft. (swim 40 ft)., fighter, humanoid (elf, aquatic), monster manual pg.103 Artic Elf: +2 Dex -2 Str, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.9 Desert Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.12 Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.17 Forestlord Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., Treewalk (su), sorcerer, humanoid (elf), dragon magic pg.8 Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 Jungle Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.14 Kagonesti: +2 Dex -2 Int -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), dragonlance campaign setting pg.18 Lesser Drow: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., (Cha 10 or better dancing lights, daze, touch of fatigue 1/day), wizard (male) and cleric (female), humanoid (elf), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Moon Elf: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.13 Qualinesti: +2 Dex -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), ), dragonlance campaign setting pg.19 Painted Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., druid, humanoid (elf), sandstorm pg.42 Silvanesti: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), ), dragonlance campaign setting pg.20 Snow Elf: +2 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), frostburn pg.34 Star Elf: +2 Cha -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., otherworldly touch (su), extraplanar (su), bard, humanoid (elf), unapproachable east pg.10 Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15 Wild Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int, medium, 30 ft., sorcerer, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 Wood Elf: +2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con -2 Int, meduim, 30 ft., ranger, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 A few more: Fey'ri (LA +2 and LA +3 versions) Drow Avariel "lesser" Fey'ri Psionic Elf Deepwyrm Drow Half-Elven Sub-Races: Half-Elves Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), players handbook pg.18 Aquatic Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft. (swim 15 ft.), any, humanoid (elf, human), stormwrack pg.45 Artic Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcane pg.10 Desert Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.12 Deepwyrm Half-Drow: none, medium, detect magic 3/day, disguise self 1/day, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human, dragonblood), dragon magic pg.6 Fire Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.18 Forestlord Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., Treewalk (su), sorcerer, humanoid (elf, human), dragon magic pg.8 Half-Drow: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), races of faerun pg.62 Half-Human Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf, human), dungeon master’s guide pg.171 Jungle Half-Elf: none, medium, 30 ft., any, humanoid (elf, human), unearthed arcana pg.14
Erato 03-18-07, 12:48 PM	I think people exaggerate about the so-called ‘million’ elven subraces. They usually list all the Forgotten Realms (moon, sun, copper ect.) and Dragonlance (every race with the word ‘nesti’ in it) subraces, along with the standard ones, disregarding that only a 3rd of those exist in the same world. Then they list the environmental racial variants from UA, and possibly other variants, neatly ignoring how the books also contain tons variants of all the other core races. And finally, they use these ‘facts’ as ‘proof’ that the so-called ‘million’ elven subraces are ruining D&D for them :rolleyes: C’mon, elves are as versatile as they’re annoying. They’re goody two shoes, they’re arrogant, highly civilized, with a deep connection to nature, and a few of them fall from grace in every book about them. You can’t have all those dimensions and abilities in 1 character (especially without a LA). Even Tolkien made elven subraces. BTW, I believe there’s actually more dwarven subraces than elven, despite the fact that dwarves are as 1-dimensional as any race ;)
NerdNumber1 03-18-07, 01:11 PM	I've made a document with stats for all the PC races. I'm sure that has all the elven subraces in it. Could you post it?
The Ubbergeek 03-18-07, 01:35 PM	I think people exaggerate about the so-called ‘million’ elven subraces. They usually list all the Forgotten Realms (moon, sun, copper ect.) and Dragonlance (every race with the word ‘nesti’ in it) subraces, along with the standard ones, disregarding that only a 3rd of those exist in the same world. Then they list the environmental racial variants from UA, and possibly other variants, neatly ignoring how the books also contain tons variants of all the other core races. And finally, they use these ‘facts’ as ‘proof’ that the so-called ‘million’ elven subraces are ruining D&D for them :rolleyes: C’mon, elves are as versatile as they’re annoying. They’re goody two shoes, they’re arrogant, highly civilized, with a deep connection to nature, and a few of them fall from grace in every book about them. You can’t have all those dimensions and abilities in 1 character (especially without a LA). Even Tolkien made elven subraces. BTW, I believe there’s actually more dwarven subraces than elven, despite the fact that dwarves are as 1-dimensional as any race ;) Indeed... It's not because they exist, that they exist in game actually, and in EVERY world. There is MUCH less subraces in play. The rest are options. And truely, I hate how elves seems trashed all the time when the dwarves can be as annoying and get away with it.
NerdNumber1 03-18-07, 01:43 PM	Indeed... It's not because they exist, that they exist in game actually, and in EVERY world. There is MUCH less subraces in play. The rest are options. And truely, I hate how elves seems trashed all the time when the dwarves can be as annoying and get away with it. Thats because elves are played more due to how over-romantisized they are. Do you want to be the thin, agile, tireless elf or the fat, short dwarf that drinks to much and has the speed of a rock. (I'm not flaming dwarves, its just that is how they look to beginers. Also, many works of fiction (non-D&D) show elves as naturaly magical, immortal, swifter, stronger, and all around more powerful than all other races.)
Treymordin 03-19-07, 01:34 AM	You forgot to add the Dargonesti and the Dimernesti from Krynn and the Araviel.
sooperspook 03-19-07, 03:06 AM	If my local gamer store ever stocks another book resembling, in any way, The complete Elves, I will burn it to the ground and dance on the ashes. The only elves I actually like are Eberronian ones because they are refreshingly different , yet there is no mechanical difference. Just cultural ones. Far, far superior to "every climate in existence has an elf subrace". P.s I feel the same about pretty much all subraces.
Mkall 03-19-07, 10:27 AM	Could you post it? It's over 100 pages long and probably violates some kind of terms on this forum. However, send me your email address and I'll see what I can do ;)
The Ubbergeek 03-19-07, 10:52 AM	Thats because elves are played more due to how over-romantisized they are. Do you want to be the thin, agile, tireless elf or the fat, short dwarf that drinks to much and has the speed of a rock. (I'm not flaming dwarves, its just that is how they look to beginers. Also, many works of fiction (non-D&D) show elves as naturaly magical, immortal, swifter, stronger, and all around more powerful than all other races.) And dwarves have a certain idealised romatic side to it -the 19th century version of the word 'romantism', mind you. A certain roughness, frontier spirit, a patriotic volkspirit, great skills, partying... Elves are closer to my own ideals myself, albeit I am an humans guy. You can't go wrong with the sheer neutrality, the diversity and creativity of humans, and also with their drive. For good or ill.