The Infested (Peach) [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Infested (Peach) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aleolus
11-13-07, 02:03 PM OK, this template was designed to go along with the race I wrote up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14322145), The Zerg. Two different forms for it, depending on your HD at the time of Infestation. I'll start with the first one

Whenever a living creature becomes infested by the Swarm, unless they are strong of will and mind, they are usually reduced to nothing more than kamikazee servants who will gladly sacrifice themselves to further the cause of the Overmind. However, occasionally, one emerges who still retains their mind and skills from before becoming Infested. If the creature having the Infested template being applied to it has 10 or fewer HD, then apply the first template. If it has 11 or more, then apply the second.

Lesser Infested (10 or fewer HD)
Hit Die: A Lesser Infested's Hit Points drop to one point for every hit die they posses, plus all their normal bonuses.
Size and type: Size remains unchanged, type changes to Abberation
AC: Same as Base creature
Speed: 40, or same as base creature (whichever is more), cannot run
Special Attacks: Explosion
Special Qualities: Hive Mind, Immune to acid, Vulnerable to Fire
Abilities: Str +2, Int becomes 1. Other ability scores are unchanged
Saves: Same as base creature
Alignment: Changes to NE
Other: Looses all weapon and armor proficiencies.

Explosion (Ex): Whenever an lesser Infested creature senses a foe, they may begin a chemical reaction within their bodies. This reaction always has very volatile results quickly. As a full-round action which does not provoke attacks of opportunity, a lesser Infested creature may cause itself to explode, killing itself and dealing an amount of acid damage equal to double their hit die in d8s to every creature within a 20 foot radius, allowing a Reflex save for half (DC 10+ 1/2 their HD + their Con modifier).

Greater Infested (11 or more HD)
Hit Die: Change all current and future Hit Dice to d8s
Size and type: Size remains unchanged, type becomes Abberation
AC: Same as base creature
Special Attacks: none
Special Qualities: Hive Mind, Immunity to Acid, Vulnerable to Fire, Infestation
Ability Scores: Str +2, Con +4
Saves: Same as base creature
Alignment: Becomes Evil, other component unchanged (LG becomes LE, CN becomes CE, etc)

Infestation: Whenever a Greater Infested drops an opponent into unconsciousness, it may seed the creature with spores of concentrated Creep, forcing the victim to make a Fort save, DC 40. If the save succeeds, the victim cannot be affected by another Zerg's Infestation ability for 48 hours, and upon awakening they become nauseated for 2d6 rounds as their body rejects and ejects the foreign substance. If they fail their save, then within one hour they become encased in a cocoon, and after 2d4 days emerge as an Infested creature. Apply the Infested template to the affected creature, as appropriate for it's HD at the time of Infestation
dawnbringer
11-13-07, 03:19 PM 35d8 is WAY WAY WAY too much for the lesser infested template. Maybe it should scale as it levels or something, but no where near 35d8. Thats equivalent to a 20th level caster casting disintigrate. At 10hd? Way too much.
Aleolus
11-13-07, 03:40 PM They're suicide bombers. They charge the enemy and blow themselves up, dealing massive damage to everything in the area. They really don't ever level up, because they die at the drop of a hat. How much damage would you reccomend? Most certainly nothing less than 15d6, most likely a lot more.
dawnbringer
11-13-07, 04:01 PM You also haven't included what + in CR they give.

35d8 is going to TPK any level 10 party unless they make an evasion save.

15d6 could be alright, but if you send more than one of them at a party, thats 30d6 to a level 10 party or even more. Your really sending the party to their deaths if they face lots of these.

Also, if it explodes, i don't think it will do straight damage. Any damage that allows a reflex save is always energy damage. So, seems like it should be fire to me. Or acid (Think acid for blood).

You also shouldnt give a set DC to a template. The DC for the creatures on both creatures should be 10 + 1/2 hd + Constitution modifier.
Watsyurname529
11-13-07, 04:27 PM I agree w/ dawnbringer, the 35d8 is way way way way way way way too much for something with < 10 HD. I was say even 15d8 (or d6) is still too much. I would say 1d6 for every HD with an addtional 1d6 for every size catagory above medium. The save should also be a DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Con Mod Reflex save for half. The damage should also in my opinion be acid.
HCL
11-13-07, 05:56 PM I think the explosion should be (4+ 1/2 * HD) d8. Keep in mind that while it will kill those marines 10x over, they are first level warriors. These things shouldnt tppk 10th level PCs.
Aleolus
11-13-07, 08:28 PM How about that, d8 damage equal to double their hit die. If you play the game, those things will kill just about everything except the strongest creatures in one hit.

Also, I notice no one saying anything about the Greater version, does it look good then?
HCL
11-13-07, 08:45 PM It doesnt need double HD damage it shouldnt be auto TPPKing parties. It should use up 1/4 of the parties resources FFS
Aleolus
11-13-07, 08:59 PM The idea with these things is that you're supposed to kill them before the get within range to explode, and a friend just suggested something to make that really easy to do. Editing it in.
Bahumut
11-14-07, 12:55 AM lets give some numeric examples, to make this easier to visualize. a 10 HD creature with 18 Con is going to have 50 HP with the Lesser Infected Template. his Explosion will cause 20d8 of damage; that's 160 damage max, 90 damage average.

a 10th level fighter with 20 Con will have 150 HP max, 105 average. this fighter has no chance to drop a 50 HP creature in two rounds, but he can add enough damage to finish it off, with help from the party.

a 10th level wizard/sorceror's fireball will do 10d6 damage; 60 max, 35 average. two of these will drop it, one with party help.

now, the last point ill make is that a Lesser Infested with 30 ft. move speed can run 120 feet a round, or 150 with the Run feat. that should be enough to put it in the middle of the party, for an explosion next round.

there is NO room for error. even with the whole party wailing on this thing, one miss or one low damage roll means it lives til its second round, and then BOOM. everyone but the fighter and barabarian are dead.

just a thought.
Aleolus
11-14-07, 01:42 AM That's a good point, though I will point out most of these come from the ranks of commoners and so forth, who do not have a lot of HD, or a high Con. The tougher ones will be more likely to have a Con of 12 or 13. 18 should be fairly rare. Because remember, the Lesser Infested are pretty much just NPC Monsters that it's up to the DM to determine exact stats for, so he decides how tough he wants them to be.

For the sake of making them easier, though, I added a clause that, while their speed is unchanged, they can no longer run.
Bahumut
11-14-07, 02:18 AM For the sake of making them easier, though, I added a clause that, while their speed is unchanged, they can no longer run.

that's a GOOD balancing point. now they cant be within blast range in 1 turn, and the fighter or ranger has a chance to drop them with ranged before they can get to the party.

i used the max HD for the template, just to show how much damage it could do, and a huge Con mod to show how much HP it could have even with the 1 HP per HD. another thing to think about, is creatures with a ton of special abilities will probably have less hit die, and thus will still be a Lesser when they probably should be a Greater.

i also agree that the DC for Infestation should not be static, as i cannot find another isntance of a creature having a static DC for any ability. (the 10+1/2(racial)HD+Con Mod) model works great, considering if its a Greater, it HAS to have 11 HD or more, and with the +4 to Con the DC is (10+at least 5+at least2)=DC 17 or more. i dont think thats too bad, considering most characters/monsters with over 11 HD have a good bit of Con to begin with.

i think these templates are really cool, im just trying to give you food for thought, to help you balance it.
dawnbringer
11-14-07, 07:45 AM I did say something about the greater version. The save DC shouldnt be 40, it should be 10 + 1/2 hd + con modifier, like the lesser version.
Aleolus
11-14-07, 12:51 PM All the Zerg have Infestation, and the save DC for it from all of them is 40. It's a toxin, which all Zerg can use, not a special ability. So it's not based off the creature at all.

By the way, changed it so that they are faster than normal (40 foot, or normal speed, whichever's higher), but they still can't run
dawnbringer
11-14-07, 04:34 PM So, on a 11 HD zerg, against level 11 player, or watever CR the zerg happens to be, its an autofail unless he rolls a 20.
Aleolus
11-14-07, 09:47 PM It's just a DC 40, regardless of the creature doing it. And yes, it was designed to be almost impossible for anything below Epic to make it, because the Zerg are powerful. You're supposed to be careful around them all, to make sure they don't get a chance to drop anyone and hit them with the toxin to convert them.
dawnbringer
11-15-07, 06:03 PM well, i think your the only person who would play the zerg that way:P. If i did add the zerg to my campaign, i would change the save DC.
Aleolus
11-16-07, 01:52 AM Well, then, what would you set the DC as? I'm wanting to keep it difficult, because, going by SC, no one so far has thrown off the effects of it, once they're subjected to it. Including Sarrah Kerrigan, who was a reasonably high-level Psion, I would estimate. 11 or more, since she became a Greater Infested.
Bahumut
11-16-07, 04:48 AM Well, then, what would you set the DC as? I'm wanting to keep it difficult, because, going by SC, no one so far has thrown off the effects of it, once they're subjected to it. Including Sarrah Kerrigan, who was a reasonably high-level Psion, I would estimate. 11 or more, since she became a Greater Infested.

so...you want to put your player's characters against something that they have no chance of winning? unless you are running a horror campaign, or trying to teach your group to run away from fights, this is something that is downright mean.

if you MUST have it be VERY hard to resist, still use the (10+(1/2 racial HD)+(Con mod)) formula, but give it a +6 "racial" mod to the DC. here's an example: a Greater Infested Old Red Dragon's (CR 20) Infestation DC (with a +6 racial bonus) would be (10+14+9+6)= DC 39. close enough to DC 40, yet STILL uses the formula.

if a GFIORD (dragon from example above) pops out from behind a corner and tries to Infest the 20th level Barbarian, who has 26 Con (+8 mod), +12 fort from class, and a cloak of resistance +5; he has to roll a 15 or better to stave it off. and that is BEST case scenario, anyone else in the party is screwed. hopefully this will help.
Bahumut
11-16-07, 04:57 AM most importantly, though, is the fact that heroes in D&D are meant to be shining examples of their world: the ferocious barbarian cutting down hundreds of men, refusing to fall until all of his adversaries have been slain; the noble paladin refusing to yield to the frightful prescence of the Great Wyrm Red Dragon, while lesser men flee in terror; the acrobatic rogue evading and disarming every dastardly trap in the crypt of an ancient civilization, while bones of the traps' previous victims litter the hallways.
zeratulcraft
11-16-07, 07:21 AM Well, then, what would you set the DC as? I'm wanting to keep it difficult, because, going by SC, no one so far has thrown off the effects of it, once they're subjected to it. Including Sarrah Kerrigan, who was a reasonably high-level Psion, I would estimate. 11 or more, since she became a Greater Infested.

Isn't that circular? "She's 11 HD+ because my template would only turn her into a greater infested if she were 11 HD+"?

Most of humanity is 1st-3rd level, exceptional people being 4th-5th, maybe make greater's at 6+.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aleolus 11-13-07, 02:03 PM	OK, this template was designed to go along with the race I wrote up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14322145), The Zerg. Two different forms for it, depending on your HD at the time of Infestation. I'll start with the first one Whenever a living creature becomes infested by the Swarm, unless they are strong of will and mind, they are usually reduced to nothing more than kamikazee servants who will gladly sacrifice themselves to further the cause of the Overmind. However, occasionally, one emerges who still retains their mind and skills from before becoming Infested. If the creature having the Infested template being applied to it has 10 or fewer HD, then apply the first template. If it has 11 or more, then apply the second. Lesser Infested (10 or fewer HD) Hit Die: A Lesser Infested's Hit Points drop to one point for every hit die they posses, plus all their normal bonuses. Size and type: Size remains unchanged, type changes to Abberation AC: Same as Base creature Speed: 40, or same as base creature (whichever is more), cannot run Special Attacks: Explosion Special Qualities: Hive Mind, Immune to acid, Vulnerable to Fire Abilities: Str +2, Int becomes 1. Other ability scores are unchanged Saves: Same as base creature Alignment: Changes to NE Other: Looses all weapon and armor proficiencies. Explosion (Ex): Whenever an lesser Infested creature senses a foe, they may begin a chemical reaction within their bodies. This reaction always has very volatile results quickly. As a full-round action which does not provoke attacks of opportunity, a lesser Infested creature may cause itself to explode, killing itself and dealing an amount of acid damage equal to double their hit die in d8s to every creature within a 20 foot radius, allowing a Reflex save for half (DC 10+ 1/2 their HD + their Con modifier). Greater Infested (11 or more HD) Hit Die: Change all current and future Hit Dice to d8s Size and type: Size remains unchanged, type becomes Abberation AC: Same as base creature Special Attacks: none Special Qualities: Hive Mind, Immunity to Acid, Vulnerable to Fire, Infestation Ability Scores: Str +2, Con +4 Saves: Same as base creature Alignment: Becomes Evil, other component unchanged (LG becomes LE, CN becomes CE, etc) Infestation: Whenever a Greater Infested drops an opponent into unconsciousness, it may seed the creature with spores of concentrated Creep, forcing the victim to make a Fort save, DC 40. If the save succeeds, the victim cannot be affected by another Zerg's Infestation ability for 48 hours, and upon awakening they become nauseated for 2d6 rounds as their body rejects and ejects the foreign substance. If they fail their save, then within one hour they become encased in a cocoon, and after 2d4 days emerge as an Infested creature. Apply the Infested template to the affected creature, as appropriate for it's HD at the time of Infestation
dawnbringer 11-13-07, 03:19 PM	35d8 is WAY WAY WAY too much for the lesser infested template. Maybe it should scale as it levels or something, but no where near 35d8. Thats equivalent to a 20th level caster casting disintigrate. At 10hd? Way too much.
Aleolus 11-13-07, 03:40 PM	They're suicide bombers. They charge the enemy and blow themselves up, dealing massive damage to everything in the area. They really don't ever level up, because they die at the drop of a hat. How much damage would you reccomend? Most certainly nothing less than 15d6, most likely a lot more.
dawnbringer 11-13-07, 04:01 PM	You also haven't included what + in CR they give. 35d8 is going to TPK any level 10 party unless they make an evasion save. 15d6 could be alright, but if you send more than one of them at a party, thats 30d6 to a level 10 party or even more. Your really sending the party to their deaths if they face lots of these. Also, if it explodes, i don't think it will do straight damage. Any damage that allows a reflex save is always energy damage. So, seems like it should be fire to me. Or acid (Think acid for blood). You also shouldnt give a set DC to a template. The DC for the creatures on both creatures should be 10 + 1/2 hd + Constitution modifier.
Watsyurname529 11-13-07, 04:27 PM	I agree w/ dawnbringer, the 35d8 is way way way way way way way too much for something with < 10 HD. I was say even 15d8 (or d6) is still too much. I would say 1d6 for every HD with an addtional 1d6 for every size catagory above medium. The save should also be a DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Con Mod Reflex save for half. The damage should also in my opinion be acid.
HCL 11-13-07, 05:56 PM	I think the explosion should be (4+ 1/2 * HD) d8. Keep in mind that while it will kill those marines 10x over, they are first level warriors. These things shouldnt tppk 10th level PCs.
Aleolus 11-13-07, 08:28 PM	How about that, d8 damage equal to double their hit die. If you play the game, those things will kill just about everything except the strongest creatures in one hit. Also, I notice no one saying anything about the Greater version, does it look good then?
HCL 11-13-07, 08:45 PM	It doesnt need double HD damage it shouldnt be auto TPPKing parties. It should use up 1/4 of the parties resources FFS
Aleolus 11-13-07, 08:59 PM	The idea with these things is that you're supposed to kill them before the get within range to explode, and a friend just suggested something to make that really easy to do. Editing it in.
Bahumut 11-14-07, 12:55 AM	lets give some numeric examples, to make this easier to visualize. a 10 HD creature with 18 Con is going to have 50 HP with the Lesser Infected Template. his Explosion will cause 20d8 of damage; that's 160 damage max, 90 damage average. a 10th level fighter with 20 Con will have 150 HP max, 105 average. this fighter has no chance to drop a 50 HP creature in two rounds, but he can add enough damage to finish it off, with help from the party. a 10th level wizard/sorceror's fireball will do 10d6 damage; 60 max, 35 average. two of these will drop it, one with party help. now, the last point ill make is that a Lesser Infested with 30 ft. move speed can run 120 feet a round, or 150 with the Run feat. that should be enough to put it in the middle of the party, for an explosion next round. there is NO room for error. even with the whole party wailing on this thing, one miss or one low damage roll means it lives til its second round, and then BOOM. everyone but the fighter and barabarian are dead. just a thought.
Aleolus 11-14-07, 01:42 AM	That's a good point, though I will point out most of these come from the ranks of commoners and so forth, who do not have a lot of HD, or a high Con. The tougher ones will be more likely to have a Con of 12 or 13. 18 should be fairly rare. Because remember, the Lesser Infested are pretty much just NPC Monsters that it's up to the DM to determine exact stats for, so he decides how tough he wants them to be. For the sake of making them easier, though, I added a clause that, while their speed is unchanged, they can no longer run.
Bahumut 11-14-07, 02:18 AM	For the sake of making them easier, though, I added a clause that, while their speed is unchanged, they can no longer run. that's a GOOD balancing point. now they cant be within blast range in 1 turn, and the fighter or ranger has a chance to drop them with ranged before they can get to the party. i used the max HD for the template, just to show how much damage it could do, and a huge Con mod to show how much HP it could have even with the 1 HP per HD. another thing to think about, is creatures with a ton of special abilities will probably have less hit die, and thus will still be a Lesser when they probably should be a Greater. i also agree that the DC for Infestation should not be static, as i cannot find another isntance of a creature having a static DC for any ability. (the 10+1/2(racial)HD+Con Mod) model works great, considering if its a Greater, it HAS to have 11 HD or more, and with the +4 to Con the DC is (10+at least 5+at least2)=DC 17 or more. i dont think thats too bad, considering most characters/monsters with over 11 HD have a good bit of Con to begin with. i think these templates are really cool, im just trying to give you food for thought, to help you balance it.
dawnbringer 11-14-07, 07:45 AM	I did say something about the greater version. The save DC shouldnt be 40, it should be 10 + 1/2 hd + con modifier, like the lesser version.
Aleolus 11-14-07, 12:51 PM	All the Zerg have Infestation, and the save DC for it from all of them is 40. It's a toxin, which all Zerg can use, not a special ability. So it's not based off the creature at all. By the way, changed it so that they are faster than normal (40 foot, or normal speed, whichever's higher), but they still can't run
dawnbringer 11-14-07, 04:34 PM	So, on a 11 HD zerg, against level 11 player, or watever CR the zerg happens to be, its an autofail unless he rolls a 20.
Aleolus 11-14-07, 09:47 PM	It's just a DC 40, regardless of the creature doing it. And yes, it was designed to be almost impossible for anything below Epic to make it, because the Zerg are powerful. You're supposed to be careful around them all, to make sure they don't get a chance to drop anyone and hit them with the toxin to convert them.
dawnbringer 11-15-07, 06:03 PM	well, i think your the only person who would play the zerg that way:P. If i did add the zerg to my campaign, i would change the save DC.
Aleolus 11-16-07, 01:52 AM	Well, then, what would you set the DC as? I'm wanting to keep it difficult, because, going by SC, no one so far has thrown off the effects of it, once they're subjected to it. Including Sarrah Kerrigan, who was a reasonably high-level Psion, I would estimate. 11 or more, since she became a Greater Infested.
Bahumut 11-16-07, 04:48 AM	Well, then, what would you set the DC as? I'm wanting to keep it difficult, because, going by SC, no one so far has thrown off the effects of it, once they're subjected to it. Including Sarrah Kerrigan, who was a reasonably high-level Psion, I would estimate. 11 or more, since she became a Greater Infested. so...you want to put your player's characters against something that they have no chance of winning? unless you are running a horror campaign, or trying to teach your group to run away from fights, this is something that is downright mean. if you MUST have it be VERY hard to resist, still use the (10+(1/2 racial HD)+(Con mod)) formula, but give it a +6 "racial" mod to the DC. here's an example: a Greater Infested Old Red Dragon's (CR 20) Infestation DC (with a +6 racial bonus) would be (10+14+9+6)= DC 39. close enough to DC 40, yet STILL uses the formula. if a GFIORD (dragon from example above) pops out from behind a corner and tries to Infest the 20th level Barbarian, who has 26 Con (+8 mod), +12 fort from class, and a cloak of resistance +5; he has to roll a 15 or better to stave it off. and that is BEST case scenario, anyone else in the party is screwed. hopefully this will help.
Bahumut 11-16-07, 04:57 AM	most importantly, though, is the fact that heroes in D&D are meant to be shining examples of their world: the ferocious barbarian cutting down hundreds of men, refusing to fall until all of his adversaries have been slain; the noble paladin refusing to yield to the frightful prescence of the Great Wyrm Red Dragon, while lesser men flee in terror; the acrobatic rogue evading and disarming every dastardly trap in the crypt of an ancient civilization, while bones of the traps' previous victims litter the hallways.
zeratulcraft 11-16-07, 07:21 AM	Well, then, what would you set the DC as? I'm wanting to keep it difficult, because, going by SC, no one so far has thrown off the effects of it, once they're subjected to it. Including Sarrah Kerrigan, who was a reasonably high-level Psion, I would estimate. 11 or more, since she became a Greater Infested. Isn't that circular? "She's 11 HD+ because my template would only turn her into a greater infested if she were 11 HD+"? Most of humanity is 1st-3rd level, exceptional people being 4th-5th, maybe make greater's at 6+.