Post/Author/DateTime	Post
M-bark 01-14-08, 03:52 PM	The Mashlings History: Mashlings are quite religious beings and praise any form of knowledge. Hailing from the great city-state of Vaar, Mashlings possess an ancient lineage that is filled with beings that differ in just about any aspect of being. Due to this, the Mashlings’ blood has become extremely mingled, and a great many years of isolation allowed them to develop into an actual race. They trace their lineage back to outsiders and dragons, elementals and giants, and fey and undead. Personality: From the early days of their race, Mashlings have known what it is like to be different from others, to be part of a minority. Even though they have since grown to be a majority, their culture still has preserved certain values from those early days. Mashlings value tolerance and acceptance of differences between people. They value hospitality. Even an evil Mashling would rather deny people access into its home than to let them in and let evil befall them. They are a curious and inquisitive people who can adapt easily to their environment, and are exceptionally loyal towards those close to them. However, Mashlings also possess a certain wariness towards strangers, and they build relationships slowly. Physical Description: Mashlings vary greatly amongst one another. Skin, hair and eyes can be of practically any colour, although a reddish-greyish peach-like is the most common skin tone, bronzish crimson is the most common eye colour, and grey the most common hair colour. Mashlings can be exceptionally beautiful, or exceptionally hideous. They possess a strange aura about them that feels weird, but not necessarily good or bad. They have retractable claws on both feet and hands, and their canine teeth are more pronounced. Some Mashlings also possess horns, and – in rare cases – even wings. Their ears look like those of a Bugbear, and a Mashling's legs and feet most resemble those of a great tiger. Their bodies have a thin layer of soft hair covering their skin, save in a few places, such as the soles of the feet and palms of the hands. The face, chest and stomach areas sometimes are also hairless. Mashlings also possess tails that are between 1/2 to 3/4 their body height in length. Their tails are mostly hairless, often with a small bony ridge running down it, and with a spade-like shape at the end. A Mashling's tail is often much different in colour from the rest of its body. Alignment: Mashlings, being a mish-mash of pretty much anything. Their loyalty and adaptability pull them both ways on the law-chaos axis, and some more readily commit evil and selfish or good and altruistic acts than others. Mashlings are, however, prone to committing evil acts for the greater good, or committing good acts for the greater evil. Relations: Mashlings sometimes have trouble to get along with others. Their relations can especially be far apart if the other knows of their heritage, because this may drive the other into distrusting the Mashling due to bearing a hatred towards some other race they suspect the Mashling to descend from or to be allied with. However, there are also those who recognize that the Mashlings have grown beyond being merely descendants of races X and Y and so and so, and accept them alongside them. Mashling sages are especially valued in other civilizations, and can be found amongst pretty much any humanoid race, even the savage ones. Religion: Mashlings can be found worshipping a wide variety of deities, but they mostly appear to revere one called J’Ner’kchod and Fristlay-deh, a pair of deities who take value in knowledge – particularly of oneself – and in one’s control over things. Names: Mashling names are great in variation, and they take pride in possessing unique names. Their names typically are of at least two syllables, and often are a mixture of words from other languages. Language: Mashlings, like their genetic heritage, have a vastly variable language, a linguistic mix of those of whom their genes are a mix. It makes use of a unique alphabet that is based partly on the Common, Dwarven, Elven, Draconic, Celestial and Infernal alphabets, and their language – called Mishpush – reflects that as well. Adventurers: Mashlings can be found in practically any profession, and they enjoy travel. Their curious nature drives them to pursue a trade that allows them to discover as much as possible. Mashling Racial Traits Mashlings Traits (Ex): Mashlings possess the following racial traits. —Str -2, Con +2, Int +6, Wis +2, Cha -2. Mashlings are incredibly smart and inquisitive and aware of the world around them, and they are quite a healthy race. —Medium size. —A Mashling’s base land speed is 40 feet. Their speed is reduced to 30 feet when wearing medium or heavy armour or while carrying a medium or heavy load. —Humanoid (dragonblood, planetouched) type. —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Racial HD: Mashlings start out with 2 levels of Humanoid, giving them 2d8 HD, and base saves of Fort+0, Ref+3 and Will+3. —Racial Skills: Mashlings start out with 2 levels of Humanoid, giving them (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) x 5 skill points. Their class skills are Listen, Spot, Move Silently, Hide and Knowledge (any). A Mashling can pick one extra language as a bonus skill. —Racial Feats: A Mashling's Humanoid levels give it one feat. It further gains feats as it advances in class levels. —Natural Armor +1: A Mashling’s skin is naturally quite tough, possibly due to descending from an incredibly tough ancestor, such as a kind of dragon. —Natural Attacks: Mashlings have two claw attacks, dealing 1d4 plus their strength score. These are its primary attacks. —Weapon Profiency: Mashlings are automatically proficient with the short sword, longsword and bastard sword. However, Mashlings with a Strength score below 13 cannot wield a bastard sword in one hand. —Disfavoured by Life and Death (Ex): Whenever a Mashling is within the range of a cleric when he or she uses his or her Turn Undead ability or Rebuke Undead ability (i.e.: when the Mashling stands closer to the cleric than the furthest rebuked/turned undead), the Mashling is stunned for one full round. This weakness does not apply if the Mashling is the Cleric doing the Turning/Rebuking. The Mashling itself does not count towards the limit of undead that can be turned/rebuked. —Ancestral Power (Ex): A Mashling has a +1 racial bonus to saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities and effects. This bonus increases by +1 for every 3 levels the Mashling has. —Prehensile Tail (Ex): A Mashling possesses a prehensile tail, A prehensile tail grants a +2 mutation bonus on Balance checks. It can also grasp and manipulate a simple object up to one size category smaller than the creature’s size category. A prehensile tail cannot be used to operate a piece of equipment that requires opposable digits or fine manipulation. A creature can “hang” from its prehensile tail indefinitely by wrapping it around a larger object, thereby freeing up its other limbs. The prehensile tail isn’t dexterous or strong enough to fire ranged weapons or make melee attacks, however. —Spells: Mashlings cast spells as a 2nd-level wizard. If a Mashling character takes any additional class levels of wizard, these levels stack with the Mashling's base spellcasting ability for the spells known, spells per day, and any other effects dependent on caster level. For example, a Mashling 5th-level wizard has the same spells known, same spells per day and caster level as any other 7th level wizard. A Mashling also has access to all other 0 level and 1st level arcane and divine spells, not just wizard spells. —Automatic Languages: Common, Mishpush. Bonus Languages: Any. —Favored Class: Wizard/Rogue, a multiclassing Mashling's wizard and rogue classes don't count when determining XP penalties. —Level adjustment +2. Table: Starting Age Adulthood Simple Average Complex 15 years +2d6 +4d6 +6d6 Table: Aging Effects Middle Aged Old Venerable Maximum age 100 years 178 years 275 years +10d20 years Table: Random Height and WeightBase Height Height Modifier Base Weight Weight Modifier Male 4'10" +3d6 130 lb. X(2d6) lb. Female 4'08" +3d6 100 lb. X(2d6) lb. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ This is the first real race I've ever tried to create. I don't know if I did any good with it, especially with the LA, but I think it was reasonable. C+C please.
Silverthumb 01-14-08, 03:57 PM	The real question is: What noise do they make when you mash them?
HernetheHunter 01-14-08, 05:24 PM	Mashling Racial Traits Mashlings Traits (Ex): Mashlings possess the following racial traits. —Con +2, Int +6, Wis +2. Mashlings are incredibly smart and inquisitive and aware of the world around them, and they are quite a healthy race. —Medium size. —A Mashling’s base land speed is 40 feet. —Humanoid type. With what you have described above I would guess the type to be more along the lines of Monstrous Humanoid or Outsider(Native) depending on the beings that populate the lineage. —Darkvision out to 60 feet and Low-light vision out to 40 feet. Low-light Vision is normally broken down into Low-light Vision and Superior Low-light Vision. Low-light is twice the normal range of sight a human has in poor illumination and Superior is any multiple above 2 times normal human range. —Racial Skills: Mashlings have a +2 racial bonus on Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Search and Listen checks. A Mashling can pick one extra language as a bonus skill. —Racial Feats: A Mashling gains feats according to its class levels. —Natural Armor +1: A Mashling’s skin is naturally quite tough, possibly due to descending from an incredibly tough ancestor, such as a kind of dragon. —Natural Attacks: Mashlings have two claw attacks, dealing 1d3 plus their strength score. These are its primary attacks. —Water breathing (Ex): Mashlings can breath water as well as they can breath air, because their lungs have adapted due to water-breathing ancestors. —Ancestral Power (Su): A Mashling has a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities and effects. This bonus increases by +1 every 5 levels. —Automatic Languages: Common, Mishpush. Bonus Languages: Any. —Favored Class: Wizard/Rogue, a multiclassing Mashling's wizard and rogue classes don't count when determining XP penalties. —Level adjustment +3. I would honestly say that depending on Type your LA would be more along +4or +5. Maybe add some racial Hit Dice. Adding any type of creature to a humanoid besides a humanoid will change the type. And at the top of the type pyramid is the Outsider (living creatures)
M-bark 01-15-08, 02:19 AM	I changed the Humanoid type to Outsider (Native). I guess that one fits a lot more, too, because the races I intended them to be descended from where largely Humanoids and Outsiders, with a hint of Lung Dragon (hence the Water Breathing), because the city-state of Vaar was supposed to be of a somewhat Eastern culture-ish kind of place. I also upped the LA to +4. I haven't changed the Low-Light Vision yet, because I haven't come across the low-light vision rules in any of my books for some strange reason. It's very much possible I simply read over them, I suppose. How far can humans see in low-light conditions? The real question is: What noise do they make when you mash them? ...bright purple. Yes, that's a noise.
AtsuiShoto 01-15-08, 03:41 AM	The +6 Int is worth +2 LA all by itself, but only because it's so darn useful for a wizard. Balancing it with racial hitdice would work fine, instead of with LA, because either way it denies a wizard spell advancement. With that in mind, I think +2 LA and 2 racial hitdice would be quite fine.
HernetheHunter 01-15-08, 09:59 AM	Low-light vision distance varies determined by lighting conditions. DMG p.296 PHB p.164 These will help.
M-bark 01-15-08, 11:29 AM	Alright, thanks. I've taken off the low-light vision. Also, in my own opinion, I don't think +6 Int is worth LA+2. I've compared it with some other races and +6 total in stats is worth LA+1, for as far as I could see.
Silverthumb 01-15-08, 12:17 PM	...bright purple. Yes, that's a noise. If I can hear Deep Purple, I can hear bright purple.
M-bark 01-15-08, 12:38 PM	I tried to add a thing about starting out with some Outsider levels, because I thought it was appropriate at first, but decided not to in the end. I also made the LA into +3, because that seemed more appropriate when I compared them to some other non-LA+0 races. And Silverthumb, that comment made me lol.
AtsuiShoto 01-15-08, 09:05 PM	Alright, thanks. I've taken off the low-light vision. Also, in my own opinion, I don't think +6 Int is worth LA+2. I've compared it with some other races and +6 total in stats is worth LA+1, for as far as I could see.Putting +6 Int on, say, a human won't make it a solid +2 LA race, but anything with +6 to a mental stat should have a +2 LA. Filling it out with +2 Cha, +2 Dex, another movement mode, etc. makes it a solid race. +6 to a mental stat is simply (almost) never appropriate for a +1 LA or +0 ECL race. So, that said, I think you could reduce 2 of those adjusted levels to be racial hitdice without being out of line. I see you already dropped the LA to +3. Looks good and solid for casters, but it still discriminates against combat-oriented Mashlings, meaning very few Mashlings with class levels will NOT be wizards, psions, archivists, etc. Just keep that in mind in case it's not the vision you have for your race. Overall, lookin' good :) You've got a tiny typo ("outside" should be "outsider"), but if it's to the point where the typos are more noticeably borked than the mechanics, you know you're in good shape.
M-bark 01-16-08, 05:48 AM	Thanks for the advice. I used to think that adding Racial HD would only add to the LA, instead of lowering it. And I got that "+6 Int =/= +2 LA" by comparing it to the Aasimar, because I realized comparing it to a LA+0 race wouldn't work out very well. And yes, I kind of was going for a more magic-oriented race here. :) Fixed the typo.
Exposed_Wires 01-16-08, 03:31 PM	Also, in my own opinion, I don't think +6 Int is worth LA+2. I've compared it with some other races and +6 total in stats is worth LA+1, for as far as I could see. Thats right, except that when it's in one stat, it has more value. Same concept as pointbuy. The more points you put into the same stat, the more expensive it gets. A couple +2s to different stats will give your character a small +1 boost to say jumping or spotting but a +6 to int gives your first level wizard spells a DC of 18 if you maxed your int stat. +3LA for sure. Tremorsense and waterbreathing are amazing. (it says +1 right now. I think thats wrong.) Edit: just saw the edit. no more tremorsense. still think its a +2 LA at least.
AtsuiShoto 01-16-08, 04:54 PM	At first glance, the combination of 8+3+(base)Int skill points for the outsider levels is enough to be way too good for a non-combat rogue, while perhaps making up for a mashling wizard's lost caster levels by making him a super-scholar. However, then I noticed the racial skills. A mashling could max out 14 or 15 skills, yes, but only the "big five" would be at full ranks. Heck, a mashling could cross-class train EVERY skill up to 1 rank, and have enough left to max out the "big five". It makes for a wide base of skills, but because these skill points must be invested before any class levels open up the max ranks, it really is a limited ability. I was going to say that +1 LA, 2 RHD is too low (given they are outsider hitdice) until I noticed the skills conundrum. Then again, Outsiders have Fighter BAB advancement. Hmm, the mashlings are actually, strangely, looking to be overly good at being rogues, even combat/skill-monkey hybrid rogues. I dunno, but maybe +2 LA, 2 RHD would be in order. I just can't see justifying a +4 ECL caster race. Perhaps Ancestral Power could be based on caster level, instead of flat class level. Something like +1 per 3 caster levels? Then I do believe +1 LA and 2 HD would be okay.
M-bark 01-17-08, 03:37 AM	There never was Tremorsense. If you've seen that on here, that was a mistake. Ancestral Power based on class level seems like a good idea. I'll put that in. As for the Waterbreathing being great, in our campaign setting there is less water than on Earth. It's about 60-40 (land-water) rather than 20-80 or so that I have seen in other people's campaigns. As such, I believe that it doesn't up the LA by 1 on itself.
ragoftag 01-17-08, 11:43 AM	Nice race fluff, but the stats are much too powerful for +1. Then there are the racial abilities... Still, I cobbed them for a 'Brigadoon' in my game, toning down the Stats and turning the racial features into choice options to reflect ancestry. I'll have to add more, such as wings, later. I think you have a good taste for direction, but they are a bit too good and would trend toward wizard/skill monkey play to the detriment of other roles. can't wait for the next posting.
M-bark 01-17-08, 12:33 PM	Thanks for the comment. Personally, when I first started out with it, I thought LA+1 would be way too low, too. But after postage here I realized that the Racial Hit Dice count for character level, too, so I added HD and lowered it. I might take something off so that it is more balanced, or maybe add some downside. As for the Wizard/Skill Monkey thing, it kind of was what I was going for. When I looked over other races and their favoured classes, I noticed that their racial traits made them great candidates for their favoured classes, effectively putting them into certain roles in a party. Also note that the wings are purely decorational. I'm thinking about adding additional appearance features to make their appearance slightly less human (like changing their ears to Bugbear-like ears, adding prehensile tails or coarse hair, different kind of feet...).
M-bark 01-18-08, 06:43 PM	I am currently trying to get the lowest ECL possible for a Mashling PC (currently at ECL 4) lowered, by lowering the LA for instance. I was considering the following options: -2 Str or -2 Cha, to balance the stats a bit better. The greatly mixed heritage is bound to freak someone out or make them suspicious of Mashlings, thus giving them a lower Charisma. I cannot really think of a reason for Strength, since most races I threw into the mix from which I finally pulled the Mashlings out of where average or above-average in Strength. Taking off Waterbreathing, and instead put up Weapon Profiency: Short Sword, Longsword and Bastard Sword up. Making the racial save bonus to spells that make up Ancestral Power not increase by +1 every 3 levels in a spellcasting class, but rather by every 5 levels. Have Medium or Heavy armour or a Heavy load slow them down to 20 feet as normal with most other Medium races.
AtsuiShoto 01-19-08, 03:09 AM	My thought with the Ancestral Power was that ANY class gets a big boost from +2 to all saves vs spells and spell-likes (that's like 3 racial feats!). So, since the skill-monkey already LOVES the mashling stats, drop the flat +2 and instead make it 1 per 3 caster levels. It takes away from the mashling skill-monkey, while rewarding the mashling casters, who have to put up with losing 3 caster levels, anyway. As for reducing the ECL below +3, you'll have to get more serious than just trimming around the edges. That +6 Int is a glaring need for ECL increases, for one thing.
M-bark 01-19-08, 11:06 AM	I've made some changes to the racial traits. Made the Ancestral Power into a +1 bonus for all classes and +1 extra every 5th level in a spellcasting class. Also added Weapon Profiencies, a weakness, some modifications to the stats, and I've taken off Water Breathing. I might add some racial feats later where Water Breathing comes back in again. Furthermore, the Physical Description has been expanded.
AtsuiShoto 01-20-08, 03:50 AM	2 Outsider dice for +6 Int!? This is looking more and more like a rogue-only race. It's not a bad rogue-only race, but I'm seeing the gap between mashling rogues and mashling wizards just increasing further and further...
M-bark 01-20-08, 04:06 AM	I added some Racial class skills, because I noticed that races/classes with more skill points generally have more skills. 2 Outsider dice for +6 Int!? This is looking more and more like a rogue-only race. It's not a bad rogue-only race, but I'm seeing the gap between mashling rogues and mashling wizards just increasing further and further... What do you suggest?
AtsuiShoto 01-20-08, 04:23 AM	A rogue (or other skillmonkey) generally doesn't mind losing class abilities, just so long as feats, BAB, and most importantly skill ranks are preserved. Outsider levels preserve feat advancement, have perfect BAB, and (especially with your slightly expanded racial skill list) can provide quite excellent skills. Basically, the Outsider levels are a near non-issue for a rogue. Quite conversely, though, any ECL increase (either LA or RHD) will hurt a full caster very badly. The power curve for a caster hinges very solidly on the casting progression, which LA and RHD don't improve at all. So, at +2 LA Mashlings remove the advancements that casters and skillmonkeys alike rely on. This hurts the casters more than the skillmonkeys, but things like caster level-based racial abilities can re-balance this difference.
M-bark 01-20-08, 04:26 AM	You gave me a thought there. What if I would give Mashlings the ability to cast spells at +1 their level? I suppose that would nudge them a bit more into a higher LA, but it would benefit the casters and not so much the skill monkeys.
HernetheHunter 01-21-08, 12:49 AM	Or give the mashlings the natural spellcaster ability found in creatures like ethergaunts or Rakshasha. This would keep your Hit Dice as spellcaster levels.
M-bark 01-21-08, 07:45 AM	That would work, but those creatures typically cast spells as sorcerers, thus being more Charisma-based in the spellcasting department, rather than Intelligence-based. Are there any creatures or races that cast spells as wizards?
AtsuiShoto 01-21-08, 09:22 PM	If not, then yours could be the first. It's not like a massive paradigm shift to go from sorcerer to wizard, after all. Sounds like an interesting idea.
M-bark 01-22-08, 09:50 AM	Well then, if indeed not, the Mashlings are the first now! I pretty much took the whole wording there from the Rakshasa in the MM, but replaced some words to fit the race (such as sorcerer -> wizard, and rakshasa -> mashling). I might put up some variant rules. Since in our custom campaign setting this race is meant to live in some kind of "asian"-ish part of the world (there are pretty much two great parts of the world, a "western" and "eastern", each with its own "common" language), and none of the players, as well as me, the DM, own Oriental Adventures, we twist some rules from the core books to fit the campaign setting. We treat katanas the same as bastard swords and wakizashis the same as short swords (hence why I gave them those weapon proficiencies), for instance and the "common" of their part of the world we call "Otherside" (perhaps a stupid name, but at least everyone can remember it). I dunno if more people use two different "Common" languages in their campaign, or if the rules for katana and wakizashi are much different from the bastard sword and short sword in Oriental Adventures, but that's just how we handle it. :) Anyways, if anyone got anything left to critisize or comment on, I'm always open to suggestions. ;)
HernetheHunter 01-22-08, 10:27 AM	The Fensir giant from FF casts spells as a Wizard, though it does not state wether it's levels stack with other caster levels.
M-bark 01-24-08, 02:45 PM	The Fensir giant from FF casts spells as a Wizard, though it does not state wether it's levels stack with other caster levels. Aha. Well, then that might just be a different reason to make them cast spells like a wizard does: because there are others that do that, too. :D By the way, do the Fensir also need to prepare those spells with a spellbook and spell components and everything else like the wizard does? I would assume so, but I suppose it could be different.
AtsuiShoto 01-24-08, 04:52 PM	—Con +2, Int +6, Wis +2, Cha -2. Mashlings are incredibly smart and inquisitive and aware of the world around them, and they are quite a healthy race. Mashlings also have -2 Str or -2 Dex. This reflects slight differences in Mashlings' ancestry. Upon the creation of a Mashling character the player can choose which of the two applies. —Medium size. —A Mashling’s base land speed is 40 feet. Their speed is reduced to 20 feet when wearing medium or heavy armour or while carrying a medium or heavy load. —Outsider (Native) type. —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Racial HD: Mashlings start out with 2 levels of Outsider, giving them 2d8 HD. —Racial Skills: Mashlings start out with 2 levels of Outsider, giving them (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) x 5 skill points. Their class skills are Listen, Search, Spot, Move Silently, Hide, Gather Information, Diplomacy and Knowledge (any). A Mashling can pick one extra language as a bonus skill. —Racial Feats: A Mashling's Outsider levels give it one feat. It further gains feats as it advances in class levels. —Natural Armor +1: A Mashling’s skin is naturally quite tough, possibly due to descending from an incredibly tough ancestor, such as a kind of dragon. —Natural Attacks: Mashlings have two claw attacks, dealing 1d3 plus their strength score. These are its primary attacks. —Weapon Profiency: Mashlings are automatically proficient with the short sword, longsword and bastard sword. —Disfavoured by Life and Death (Ex): Whenever a Mashling is within the range of a cleric when he or she uses his or her Turn Undead ability or Rebuke Undead ability (i.e.: when the Mashling stands closer to the cleric than the furthest rebuked/turned undead), the Mashling is stunned for one full round. —Ancestral Power (Ex): A Mashling has a +1 racial bonus to saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities and effects. This bonus increases by +1 every 3 levels in any spellcasting class. —Spells: Mashlings cast spells as a 2nd-level wizard. If a Mashling character takes any additional class levels of wizard, these levels stack with the Mashling's base spellcasting ability for the spells known, spells per day, and any other effects dependent on caster level. For example, a Mashling 5th-level wizard has the same spells known, same spells per day and caster level as any other 7th level wizard. A Mashling character likewise uses the sum of its racial spellcasting levels and class levels to determine the abilities of its familiar. —Automatic Languages: Common, Mishpush. Bonus Languages: Any. —Favored Class: Wizard/Rogue, a multiclassing Mashling's wizard and rogue classes don't count when determining XP penalties. —Level adjustment +0. Holy ****, dude! You've given Mashlings 2 levels of Wizard, plus 6/lvl more skill points, plus d8 instead of d4 hitdice, plus natural weapons, plus natural armor, plus a slew of ability modifiers (including +6 Intelligence!), plus better base speed, plus darkvision, plus Outsider type, plus useful weapon proficiencies, plus saving throws versus spells and spell-likes. That is A LOT of good stuff. The only drawbacks? Some issues with turning, down a few ranks Spellcraft and Concentration, and -2 Cha. The -2 physical stat can just be placed wherever it won't matter. Adding Wizard spellcasting can be good. If you want to open up other spellcasting options, you can even make it more generic by borrowing the wording from prestige classes. However, the mashlings were already a too-good choice for multiclass wizard/rogues, and questionable for straight wizards. You fixed the latter part so very thoroughly that you actually went way too far, making BOTH options too good now. Instead of just adding wizard casting on top of everything you've already got, something has got to tone down the power level if it's ever going to be on the same level as normal D&D races. For the record, I would STILL play this race if it had a +1 LA on top of everything else. I may even play it as a +1 LA with 1 more racial hit die and still only 2 wizard levels. Losing a whole spell level of casting may actually be worth it.
M-bark 01-25-08, 06:09 AM	Ah yes. I was planning on putting back in a small LA (+1) when adding the spellcasting. I forgot that, sadly. Sorry 'bout that.
M-bark 01-27-08, 08:56 AM	Added Ages, Height and Weight tables.
dulsi 06-04-08, 03:06 PM	I saw this race in your sig on your Azcatian Gnoll comment. The mashlings have too low a LA. The two outsider hit dice give them better hit points, BAB, saves, and skill points than a wizard but they still have the spell casting ability of a wizard. That by itself is worth +1 LA at least. With the bonus to abilities, speed, natural armor, natural attacks, etc, you have a very formidable race. I'd say at least +3 LA.
M-bark 06-04-08, 03:24 PM	Looking back on it, as their creation was quite a long time ago to me, they are perhaps a bit too powerful as they are. I wanted to make them humanoid, but the fluff I made for them definately did not seemed to fit that, so I made them native outsiders instead. However, since then I learned that instead of Outsider (Native), one could reach the same fluff but a weaker race with a type of Humanoid (Planetouched). I think that, with the fluff I put down for them, I'll change their type to Humanoid (Planetouched, Dragonblood).
AtsuiShoto 06-05-08, 09:52 AM	Hey, I remember this! Good call on the Humanoid type, sub-types, and level adjustment. I've got this link saved just because it's pretty cool.
dulsi 06-05-08, 10:43 AM	It's better but still feels a little powerful to me. Since dragonborn and planetouched aren't in the srd I don't know if those are advantageous or not. Normally 2HD humanoid would have base save Will+0. Not sure if you gave the +3 on purpose or not. Let's compare the Mashlings to Lizardfolk. They have worse ability scores but better natural armor. Mashlings don't have a bite or hold breath but are faster, have a prehensile tail and ancestral power. They do have a weakness but I don't feel it is a particularly crippling one. The faster and prehensile tail seem somewhat compared to bite and hold breath. Ancestral power however seems a little more powerful than what the lizardfolk has. Add in 2 levels worth of wizard, I'd probably put it at LA +3 still. After talking with Telin, he pointed out the oddity of having a race that is naturally a studied wizard. Natural spellcasting is almost always sorcerer with the occasional cleric or druid spellcasting. I think it would make more sense as a sorcerer. The ancestral power seems odd to me as well. Assuming you want it to go up by class levels I would make it based on any class level or maybe only sorcerer casting level. With your current wording would a paladin or ranger counting as a spell casting class? Overall the race seem like it is tailored to what you want to play not designed as a logical creature. Why are they proficient in the bastard sword?
M-bark 06-06-08, 08:44 AM	It's better but still feels a little powerful to me. Since dragonborn and planetouched aren't in the srd I don't know if those are advantageous or not. Normally 2HD humanoid would have base save Will+0. Not sure if you gave the +3 on purpose or not. Let's compare the Mashlings to Lizardfolk. They have worse ability scores but better natural armor. Mashlings don't have a bite or hold breath but are faster, have a prehensile tail and ancestral power. They do have a weakness but I don't feel it is a particularly crippling one. The faster and prehensile tail seem somewhat compared to bite and hold breath. Ancestral power however seems a little more powerful than what the lizardfolk has. Add in 2 levels worth of wizard, I'd probably put it at LA +3 still. After talking with Telin, he pointed out the oddity of having a race that is naturally a studied wizard. Natural spellcasting is almost always sorcerer with the occasional cleric or druid spellcasting. I think it would make more sense as a sorcerer. The ancestral power seems odd to me as well. Assuming you want it to go up by class levels I would make it based on any class level or maybe only sorcerer casting level. With your current wording would a paladin or ranger counting as a spell casting class? Overall the race seem like it is tailored to what you want to play not designed as a logical creature. Why are they proficient in the bastard sword? The humanoid type combined with the planetouched and dragonblood subtypes makes them vulnerable to anything that would be a disadvantage to humanoids, dragons and outsiders, including banishment for outsiders. Also, I don't think the prehensile tail equals a lizardfolk's bite attack, since it cannot wield weapons. It's more of something to carry a lantern in rather than a sword. The weakness is due to their descent, as they are meant to be partially descended from undead (vampires, that is, as I have not heard of other undead procreating). Also, there is a race that casts spells as a wizard, in Races of Faerun, I believe. It was mentioned earlier in this thread. I did not want them to cast spells as a sorcerer because I wanted them to be more original. Also, if they don't have access to a spellbook (since a wizard needs a spellbook), they wouldn't be able to cast spells. Paladins and rangers are counted as spellcasting classes, yes. Any class with a spell list of its own is counted as a spellcasting class in DnD. As to humanoids of 2 HD "normally" having a base Will save of +0, it is specifically stated in the Monster Manual that saves vary when humanoids are concerned. Also, since all full casting classes (wizard, druid, wu jen, shugenja, spirit shaman, etc.) have a good Will save, and a big part of this race is their wizardry, I'd thought it would be a good idea to give them a good Will save. Lastly, concerning your question about their weapon proficiencies: they have a slightly martial-orientated tradition. It is more as a tradition than anything else, like being trained to do something "just because our ancestors did it too", not because they actually plan on using it much. (After all, why swing around a sword if you could swing around spells more mightier than that sword?) Personally, I think the change of type and subtypes balances their abilities more than enough. If it turns out they are still powerful, I could give them another weakness. Perhaps they would, like DBZ's Saiyans, become paralyzed if their tail would be pulled (grappled)? I could do that, but I feel that that would make their weaknesses perhaps a bit too much. Although I could add in another idea I had in stock for them: to give them access to all arcane and divine spells (but only for 0 and 1st level spells) for their racial HD. EDIT: I slightly altered the wording of Ancestral Power. Levels in full casting classes still up their bonus on saves vs spells as normal, but levels in classes like, for instance, ranger and paladin only up it half as fast.
dulsi 06-06-08, 10:04 AM	Also, I don't think the prehensile tail equals a lizardfolk's bite attack, since it cannot wield weapons. It's more of something to carry a lantern in rather than a sword. Actually I felt that faster speed and prehensile tail are kinda comparable in power to bite and hold breath. Your prehensile tail is closer in useful power to hold breath while faster speed is perhaps more useful than a bite. The weakness is due to their descent, as they are meant to be partially descended from undead (vampires, that is, as I have not heard of other undead procreating). Lastly, concerning your question about their weapon proficiencies: they have a slightly martial-orientated tradition. Ok. I didn't get any hint about either of those from the description of the creature. I probably add it in the description of the creature somewhere so it doesn't seem out of place. Perhaps in the religion section mention they distrust priests or something and perfer to practice their faith in solitude. As to humanoids of 2 HD "normally" having a base Will save of +0, it is specifically stated in the Monster Manual that saves vary when humanoids are concerned. Just wanted to make sure it was done on purpose and not left over from when it was an outsider type.
M-bark 06-07-08, 08:56 AM	Ok. I didn't get any hint about either of those from the description of the creature. I probably add it in the description of the creature somewhere so it doesn't seem out of place. Perhaps in the religion section mention they distrust priests or something and perfer to practice their faith in solitude. I put that hint in the history, referring to their lineage. The distrust of priests does sound like a good idea, however. Nice to add to the fluff. Just wanted to make sure it was done on purpose and not left over from when it was an outsider type. It wasn't. Hence why the Fort save is at +0. :) Hey, I remember this! Good call on the Humanoid type, sub-types, and level adjustment. I've got this link saved just because it's pretty cool. Thanks! Nice to see you took a look at it again. :)