The Small Folk [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Small Folk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Malchius
12-25-07, 01:42 PM As I recently flicked through my PHB I looked at halflings, I haven't played one in years and I don't recall anyone in my group playing one for a long time.

So I was wondering, does anyone play the Halflings anymore?

and If not, why?
Barloch
12-25-07, 04:55 PM I would, I love halflings, but I always just end up playing something more beneficial for my character concept, and honestly whisper gnomes put halfings out of a job, they're like super halflings. But they're great fun, a good race for rogue and spellcasters, and fighters too if you take confound the bigfolk from races of the wild.
Malchius
12-25-07, 05:15 PM I was thinking that myself, but IMHO Whisper Gnomes are one of, if not, one of the most powerful LA 0 races.

Halfling's just seem unloved to me, as Gnomes have tons of variants and also that Halflings are one the slowest small sized races even though they're supposed to be fast. Whisper Gnomes, Gobbo's and the Kobold's just best them everytime in a race.
neanter
12-26-07, 04:02 AM Yes! halfings need to be reworked. I want to make a dagger throwing halfling but the speed and stats could be better. been thinking of making a +1 LA halfling but I don't know how yet.... between the racial substitution levels and paragon levels(unearthed arcana) something needs to be found, although the racial substitution(races of the wild) is nice.
Bopple
12-26-07, 08:23 AM Apparently, halflings are more loved than gnomes in 4E.

IME, I have seen two halflings(by 2 players) and two gnomes(by one player) in my group, during the last 4 years.
Naderion
12-26-07, 08:46 AM When I began to create my setting, I began at 0 and thought about what I would like to see in it and why, but at the same time wanted to use as few races, nations, and races as possible (most seetings seem greatly overcrowded). I disliked the tinkering aspect of gnomes and the caravan aspect and overused rogue-cliche of halflings, but wanted to have the rural, hill-dwelling lifestyle of hobbits and a bond with animals. Both gnomes and halflings could fill that role, but having both would have been redundant. In the end, it came almost to flipping a coin, but somehow I felt a bin inclined to use gnomes and not halflings, because the illusion affinity fit well with the idea to have different magic traditions with different races.
So there are no halflings in this setting by name, but I think the gnomes are about as much standard-gnomes as standard-halflings.
Malchius
12-26-07, 08:47 AM Apparently, halflings are more loved than gnomes in 4E.

Which was a shock to me as Gnome's have a lot more support in 3.5, including subraces, Whisper Gnomes, Fire Gnomes and Chaos Gnomes to name a few and prestige classes, Giant Killer, Divine Prankster etc.

I've personally seen more gnomes played in game too, as 3 have been played in my group in the last year, whereas no Halfling's have.

When I began to create my setting, I began at 0 and thought about what I would like to see in it and why, but at the same time wanted to use as few races, nations, and races as possible (most seetings seem greatly overcrowded). I disliked the tinkering aspect of gnomes and the caravan aspect and overused rogue-cliche of halflings, but wanted to have the rural, hill-dwelling lifestyle of hobbits and a bond with animals. Both gnomes and halflings could fill that role, but having both would have been redundant. In the end, it came almost to flipping a coin, but somehow I felt a bin inclined to use gnomes and not halflings, because the illusion affinity fit well with the idea to have different magic traditions with different races.
So there are no halflings in this setting by name, but I think the gnomes are about as much standard-gnomes as standard-halflings.

This is like a setting I'll be playing soon, where the Halfling's aren't nomads and Gnomes aren't mad scientists but both live in peace with the land in small communities; in the campaign we'll be fighting Goblins and it occured to me that Gnomes are better for this, not only fighting Goblins but for plot hooks, Halflings are too pacifistic to go war but Gnomes are fine with a good battle, this makes it hard to make Halflings important in a game where around 50% of the action is in battle or at war.
Naderion
12-26-07, 08:50 AM I think the 4th Ed. thing is just personal preference of the designers.

OR they want to ride the Frodo Baggins wave.
Malchius
12-26-07, 08:56 AM I think the 4th Ed. thing is just personal preference of the designers.

OR they want to ride the Frodo Baggins wave.

I agree, it must be personal preference, Gnomes seem to just be better thought out, even have conflicts with other races(Gobbo's, Kobold's and Giants) and have settlements and seem very focused despite what the Designers have said.

Whereas it's very hard to place Halfling's in a world, it says they constantly travel but makes references to Halfling cities and towns, and then says that they don't like war because if they win they'll be tied down by property. Seems awful contradictary(sp?) to me.
Arco Versipellis
12-26-07, 11:49 PM I guess my gaming group is weird; we all use elves and halflings. I myself don't play them much, but I have had two players who rarely lay anything else. I wish they were faster. Gnomes do seem to get better variants, but I prefer halflings.
Silvanas84
12-27-07, 12:08 AM When it came to the tall folk I used to be a major elf fanboy, then I started to like humans. As far as "shortfolk" are concerned, I prefer Gnomes, although Halflings are cool. I've got more experience playing Gnomes though.
Naderion
12-27-07, 12:03 PM I agree, it must be personal preference, Gnomes seem to just be better thought out, even have conflicts with other races(Gobbo's, Kobold's and Giants) and have settlements and seem very focused despite what the Designers have said.
If every other thesis fails, there's always "gnomes have been antithesis of fun" as a last resort. :D
Salla
12-27-07, 12:55 PM As I recently flicked through my PHB I looked at halflings, I haven't played one in years and I don't recall anyone in my group playing one for a long time.

So I was wondering, does anyone play the Halflings anymore?

and If not, why?

I've been unable to play one thanks to Peter ****ing Jackson's crappy LotR movies. People have forgotten that halflings are not hobbits now, so I get constantly bombarded with fat jokes, hairy feet jokes, and coward jokes, none of which apply to my character specifically, nor halflings in general.
Malchius
12-27-07, 01:05 PM Coward jokes are especially wrong for D&D Halflings as they have a bonus on all saves and a bonus against fear so they're quite the opposite.

I see your point aswell, Halfling's aren't especially shown as the heroes of that story( I mean kick ass heroes because technically Frodo's the hero), it's made it harder to make a Halfling warrior or adventurer that'll be taken serious and won't end up at the end of a second breakfast joke.
Rulebook
12-27-07, 03:01 PM halflings can get the highest attack bonus out off the line at 1st level, and thats pretty cool.

there were times that +10 attack bonus was the only thing that could touch the things we were fighting. and javelins do enough damage from a halfling to be competitive.
Malchius
12-27-07, 03:07 PM halflings can get the highest attack bonus out off the line at 1st level, and thats pretty cool.

there were times that +10 attack bonus was the only thing that could touch the things we were fighting. and javelins do enough damage from a halfling to be competitive.

Very nice, plus point for Halflings, atleast we know there's one thing they're good for.

Wait is that +10 at first level, +5 from Dex, +1 size, +1 throwing, 1 BA, focus for +1, damn I can only get 9, how did you get 10?
Rulebook
12-27-07, 04:52 PM point blank.
Malchius
12-27-07, 05:04 PM point blank.

Makes sense, forgot about the Bonus Feat.

Throwing weapons is probably the only good way to play a Halfling, and especially so with the Whisperknife Prestige Class from Races of The Wild making them darn effective.
Rulebook
12-27-07, 05:50 PM outriders are quite nice, and they make fabulus druids.

also, if you want to play anything that uses an arial mount, small sized folks work wonders
Salla
12-27-07, 08:29 PM Makes sense, forgot about the Bonus Feat.

Throwing weapons is probably the only good way to play a Halfling, and especially so with the Whisperknife Prestige Class from Races of The Wild making them darn effective.

Dude ... spellcasting. STR is irrelevant, DEX is good, attack and AC bonuses are good, and the damage and saving throw DCs aren't affected by your size. :)

See also Sneak Attack, and most of the Tome of Battle. :)
Malchius
12-28-07, 08:54 AM hmm, I didn't really think of spellcasting, but it could prove dangerous for a halfling, he only moves at twenty which means that big threatening medium sized fighters got him in the face a couple of time, atleast up until the Wizard becomes almighty.

Ahh, the Rogue, Sneak Attack's great and would synergise well into the Whisperknife, I wouldn't recommend Melee though.

How could I forget the Tome of Battle, it makes any Small fella able to the kick out the damage. I have fond memories of my Goblin Warblade Dagger Fighter, really surprised the enemy when he Bonecrushered them.

So thinks a Halflings good at

Rogue
Spellcaster/Druid
Martial Adept
Thrown Weapon fighter
Outrider/Cavalier

Anything else?
Ziggaraut
12-30-07, 02:15 PM As Small Folk are concerned, Kobolds rule all!

(NO, I am NOT talking about Pun-Pun :mad: )
Malchius
12-30-07, 02:23 PM As Small Folk are concerned, Kobolds rule all!

(NO, I am NOT talking about Pun-Pun :mad: )

Kobolds are cool, and I prefer to play Kobolds to Halflings despite their unfavourable stat modifiers. That's disregarding Venerable Dragonwroughts though.

Ahh, I remembered the last halfling I played, I was a Druid only third level, got killed by an ogre, squishied, buy my wolf got away.:D
ObscureInfo
12-30-07, 04:56 PM To be honest, over the years, I have played more halflings than gnomes. Nothing against gnomes, but the only gnome characters I have read about (in fiction like FR or Dragonlance) have been unplayable as characters. Halflings are playful, too, and enjoy jokes as well as gnomes. I did like the gnome homes better (as far as common or rock gnomes are considered) because I liked the idea of a hidden cave system just below the surface with hidden doors and periodic light and breathing holes (since they have low-light vision). I read the 2E book of gnomes and halflings and it captured my imagination. But then in 3E, gnomes became tinkers and alchemists and practical jokers. I dislike too much technology in DnD. And the focus on jokes and such made the gnomes seem like a race of Jokey Smurfs. So they are either little mad scientists or crazy little jokesters.

The problem with both gnomes and halflings is the fact that nobody has a definitive idea of what they are about. They have gone through so many incarnations that it is hard to decide what they are really like. The halflings have gone from hobbits to kender to gypsies to "river folk". I think the designers are wrong on this. By reinventing the halflings yet again, they are adding to the confusion, and not fixing the problem. Gnomes are just as bad. Like the designers have said, they are halfling-elf-dwarfs. The only two characteristics unique to them is the focus on illusions and the prankster element. I liked the culture of the gnomes until Dragonlance and tinker gnomes. But the fact that EVERYONE latched on to this concept just shows how weak the gnomish culture really was. Even now, some people won't play them any other way. Even in 3E, there was multiple theories. (the PHB, Dragon magazine article, 3.5 PHB-the bard addition and then Races of Stone) Add Ebberon's unique take and so, it dilutes the concept even more. Pointy hats? Wizard schools? Miners? Pranksters? Bards? Mad Scientists? Technologists? Nobody knows anymore.

But I recently started playing gnomes again after listening to the "the Forgotten Isle- DnD webcast" from England and hearing about Dreamt, a gnome thief/illusionist, with his continual pickpocketing, playing tricks on NPCs and using his ventriliquism non-weapon proficiency. Suddenly, gnomes were cool again and could be almost as good as halflings at rogues. Further, they have a natural flair for magic. The bonus cantrips were nice for playing tricks on people.

But for the most part I play halflings like 2E halflings and make them rogues and wizards. Maybe every 6th or 7th character I play is a halfling. Except for my new gnome rogue.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malchius 12-25-07, 01:42 PM	As I recently flicked through my PHB I looked at halflings, I haven't played one in years and I don't recall anyone in my group playing one for a long time. So I was wondering, does anyone play the Halflings anymore? and If not, why?
Barloch 12-25-07, 04:55 PM	I would, I love halflings, but I always just end up playing something more beneficial for my character concept, and honestly whisper gnomes put halfings out of a job, they're like super halflings. But they're great fun, a good race for rogue and spellcasters, and fighters too if you take confound the bigfolk from races of the wild.
Malchius 12-25-07, 05:15 PM	I was thinking that myself, but IMHO Whisper Gnomes are one of, if not, one of the most powerful LA 0 races. Halfling's just seem unloved to me, as Gnomes have tons of variants and also that Halflings are one the slowest small sized races even though they're supposed to be fast. Whisper Gnomes, Gobbo's and the Kobold's just best them everytime in a race.
neanter 12-26-07, 04:02 AM	Yes! halfings need to be reworked. I want to make a dagger throwing halfling but the speed and stats could be better. been thinking of making a +1 LA halfling but I don't know how yet.... between the racial substitution levels and paragon levels(unearthed arcana) something needs to be found, although the racial substitution(races of the wild) is nice.
Bopple 12-26-07, 08:23 AM	Apparently, halflings are more loved than gnomes in 4E. IME, I have seen two halflings(by 2 players) and two gnomes(by one player) in my group, during the last 4 years.
Naderion 12-26-07, 08:46 AM	When I began to create my setting, I began at 0 and thought about what I would like to see in it and why, but at the same time wanted to use as few races, nations, and races as possible (most seetings seem greatly overcrowded). I disliked the tinkering aspect of gnomes and the caravan aspect and overused rogue-cliche of halflings, but wanted to have the rural, hill-dwelling lifestyle of hobbits and a bond with animals. Both gnomes and halflings could fill that role, but having both would have been redundant. In the end, it came almost to flipping a coin, but somehow I felt a bin inclined to use gnomes and not halflings, because the illusion affinity fit well with the idea to have different magic traditions with different races. So there are no halflings in this setting by name, but I think the gnomes are about as much standard-gnomes as standard-halflings.
Malchius 12-26-07, 08:47 AM	Apparently, halflings are more loved than gnomes in 4E. Which was a shock to me as Gnome's have a lot more support in 3.5, including subraces, Whisper Gnomes, Fire Gnomes and Chaos Gnomes to name a few and prestige classes, Giant Killer, Divine Prankster etc. I've personally seen more gnomes played in game too, as 3 have been played in my group in the last year, whereas no Halfling's have. When I began to create my setting, I began at 0 and thought about what I would like to see in it and why, but at the same time wanted to use as few races, nations, and races as possible (most seetings seem greatly overcrowded). I disliked the tinkering aspect of gnomes and the caravan aspect and overused rogue-cliche of halflings, but wanted to have the rural, hill-dwelling lifestyle of hobbits and a bond with animals. Both gnomes and halflings could fill that role, but having both would have been redundant. In the end, it came almost to flipping a coin, but somehow I felt a bin inclined to use gnomes and not halflings, because the illusion affinity fit well with the idea to have different magic traditions with different races. So there are no halflings in this setting by name, but I think the gnomes are about as much standard-gnomes as standard-halflings. This is like a setting I'll be playing soon, where the Halfling's aren't nomads and Gnomes aren't mad scientists but both live in peace with the land in small communities; in the campaign we'll be fighting Goblins and it occured to me that Gnomes are better for this, not only fighting Goblins but for plot hooks, Halflings are too pacifistic to go war but Gnomes are fine with a good battle, this makes it hard to make Halflings important in a game where around 50% of the action is in battle or at war.
Naderion 12-26-07, 08:50 AM	I think the 4th Ed. thing is just personal preference of the designers. OR they want to ride the Frodo Baggins wave.
Malchius 12-26-07, 08:56 AM	I think the 4th Ed. thing is just personal preference of the designers. OR they want to ride the Frodo Baggins wave. I agree, it must be personal preference, Gnomes seem to just be better thought out, even have conflicts with other races(Gobbo's, Kobold's and Giants) and have settlements and seem very focused despite what the Designers have said. Whereas it's very hard to place Halfling's in a world, it says they constantly travel but makes references to Halfling cities and towns, and then says that they don't like war because if they win they'll be tied down by property. Seems awful contradictary(sp?) to me.
Arco Versipellis 12-26-07, 11:49 PM	I guess my gaming group is weird; we all use elves and halflings. I myself don't play them much, but I have had two players who rarely lay anything else. I wish they were faster. Gnomes do seem to get better variants, but I prefer halflings.
Silvanas84 12-27-07, 12:08 AM	When it came to the tall folk I used to be a major elf fanboy, then I started to like humans. As far as "shortfolk" are concerned, I prefer Gnomes, although Halflings are cool. I've got more experience playing Gnomes though.
Naderion 12-27-07, 12:03 PM	I agree, it must be personal preference, Gnomes seem to just be better thought out, even have conflicts with other races(Gobbo's, Kobold's and Giants) and have settlements and seem very focused despite what the Designers have said. If every other thesis fails, there's always "gnomes have been antithesis of fun" as a last resort. :D
Salla 12-27-07, 12:55 PM	As I recently flicked through my PHB I looked at halflings, I haven't played one in years and I don't recall anyone in my group playing one for a long time. So I was wondering, does anyone play the Halflings anymore? and If not, why? I've been unable to play one thanks to Peter ****ing Jackson's crappy LotR movies. People have forgotten that halflings are not hobbits now, so I get constantly bombarded with fat jokes, hairy feet jokes, and coward jokes, none of which apply to my character specifically, nor halflings in general.
Malchius 12-27-07, 01:05 PM	Coward jokes are especially wrong for D&D Halflings as they have a bonus on all saves and a bonus against fear so they're quite the opposite. I see your point aswell, Halfling's aren't especially shown as the heroes of that story( I mean kick ass heroes because technically Frodo's the hero), it's made it harder to make a Halfling warrior or adventurer that'll be taken serious and won't end up at the end of a second breakfast joke.
Rulebook 12-27-07, 03:01 PM	halflings can get the highest attack bonus out off the line at 1st level, and thats pretty cool. there were times that +10 attack bonus was the only thing that could touch the things we were fighting. and javelins do enough damage from a halfling to be competitive.
Malchius 12-27-07, 03:07 PM	halflings can get the highest attack bonus out off the line at 1st level, and thats pretty cool. there were times that +10 attack bonus was the only thing that could touch the things we were fighting. and javelins do enough damage from a halfling to be competitive. Very nice, plus point for Halflings, atleast we know there's one thing they're good for. Wait is that +10 at first level, +5 from Dex, +1 size, +1 throwing, 1 BA, focus for +1, damn I can only get 9, how did you get 10?
Rulebook 12-27-07, 04:52 PM	point blank.
Malchius 12-27-07, 05:04 PM	point blank. Makes sense, forgot about the Bonus Feat. Throwing weapons is probably the only good way to play a Halfling, and especially so with the Whisperknife Prestige Class from Races of The Wild making them darn effective.
Rulebook 12-27-07, 05:50 PM	outriders are quite nice, and they make fabulus druids. also, if you want to play anything that uses an arial mount, small sized folks work wonders
Salla 12-27-07, 08:29 PM	Makes sense, forgot about the Bonus Feat. Throwing weapons is probably the only good way to play a Halfling, and especially so with the Whisperknife Prestige Class from Races of The Wild making them darn effective. Dude ... spellcasting. STR is irrelevant, DEX is good, attack and AC bonuses are good, and the damage and saving throw DCs aren't affected by your size. :) See also Sneak Attack, and most of the Tome of Battle. :)
Malchius 12-28-07, 08:54 AM	hmm, I didn't really think of spellcasting, but it could prove dangerous for a halfling, he only moves at twenty which means that big threatening medium sized fighters got him in the face a couple of time, atleast up until the Wizard becomes almighty. Ahh, the Rogue, Sneak Attack's great and would synergise well into the Whisperknife, I wouldn't recommend Melee though. How could I forget the Tome of Battle, it makes any Small fella able to the kick out the damage. I have fond memories of my Goblin Warblade Dagger Fighter, really surprised the enemy when he Bonecrushered them. So thinks a Halflings good at Rogue Spellcaster/Druid Martial Adept Thrown Weapon fighter Outrider/Cavalier Anything else?
Ziggaraut 12-30-07, 02:15 PM	As Small Folk are concerned, Kobolds rule all! (NO, I am NOT talking about Pun-Pun :mad: )
Malchius 12-30-07, 02:23 PM	As Small Folk are concerned, Kobolds rule all! (NO, I am NOT talking about Pun-Pun :mad: ) Kobolds are cool, and I prefer to play Kobolds to Halflings despite their unfavourable stat modifiers. That's disregarding Venerable Dragonwroughts though. Ahh, I remembered the last halfling I played, I was a Druid only third level, got killed by an ogre, squishied, buy my wolf got away.:D
ObscureInfo 12-30-07, 04:56 PM	To be honest, over the years, I have played more halflings than gnomes. Nothing against gnomes, but the only gnome characters I have read about (in fiction like FR or Dragonlance) have been unplayable as characters. Halflings are playful, too, and enjoy jokes as well as gnomes. I did like the gnome homes better (as far as common or rock gnomes are considered) because I liked the idea of a hidden cave system just below the surface with hidden doors and periodic light and breathing holes (since they have low-light vision). I read the 2E book of gnomes and halflings and it captured my imagination. But then in 3E, gnomes became tinkers and alchemists and practical jokers. I dislike too much technology in DnD. And the focus on jokes and such made the gnomes seem like a race of Jokey Smurfs. So they are either little mad scientists or crazy little jokesters. The problem with both gnomes and halflings is the fact that nobody has a definitive idea of what they are about. They have gone through so many incarnations that it is hard to decide what they are really like. The halflings have gone from hobbits to kender to gypsies to "river folk". I think the designers are wrong on this. By reinventing the halflings yet again, they are adding to the confusion, and not fixing the problem. Gnomes are just as bad. Like the designers have said, they are halfling-elf-dwarfs. The only two characteristics unique to them is the focus on illusions and the prankster element. I liked the culture of the gnomes until Dragonlance and tinker gnomes. But the fact that EVERYONE latched on to this concept just shows how weak the gnomish culture really was. Even now, some people won't play them any other way. Even in 3E, there was multiple theories. (the PHB, Dragon magazine article, 3.5 PHB-the bard addition and then Races of Stone) Add Ebberon's unique take and so, it dilutes the concept even more. Pointy hats? Wizard schools? Miners? Pranksters? Bards? Mad Scientists? Technologists? Nobody knows anymore. But I recently started playing gnomes again after listening to the "the Forgotten Isle- DnD webcast" from England and hearing about Dreamt, a gnome thief/illusionist, with his continual pickpocketing, playing tricks on NPCs and using his ventriliquism non-weapon proficiency. Suddenly, gnomes were cool again and could be almost as good as halflings at rogues. Further, they have a natural flair for magic. The bonus cantrips were nice for playing tricks on people. But for the most part I play halflings like 2E halflings and make them rogues and wizards. Maybe every 6th or 7th character I play is a halfling. Except for my new gnome rogue.