Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EvilVegan 02-02-08, 04:30 PM	Mind-flayers. I love em. I put them everywhere. They're the men behind the curtain. I once had a mind-flayer paladin that manipulated many layers of society from behind the scense to make sure orphanages were properly donated too and the homeless got homes and to make sure that the thieves guild stayed at most neutral. Good times. But I had an urge to make a new campaign world. One in which all the races of the universe are thrown together on the prime material, where reality is ripped asunder, and there are small cities (known as Bastions) where the remaining gods with any power use all of that power to maintain a stable chunk of rock big enough to live on and keep out the wandering nil-reality storms (Nothings) and ul-reality storms (Somethings) and elder evils and whatever. . . In these cities I wanted to put in my pet race with a twist. I want the mindflayers to be a lawful-evil police/detective force. They use their telepathy to find criminals, bring them to justice, and (if the crime warrants) eat their tasty, tasty criminal brains. But I was also wanting to make them slightly more "in the open" and if possible "PC-race" friendly. That would entail stripping their powers down to make the LA 0. So here's what I'm thinking. Civilized Mindflayers: Remove their tentacles. Cut them off with a hot knife. This is a sign of faith that they won't remove people's brains. (This earns them the nickname "Nubby"). Reduce their telepathic prowess to standard levels in psion. That is to say, ret-con standard mind-flayers into psions without racial hit die. You want mind blast? Earn it. Maybe give a bonus to it, or let them learn it at a lower level. What other things would I need to make them less villanous and less powerful? The overall society has a post-apocalyptic / city at the edge of the universe / utopia feel. So lots of things formerly seen as "kill on sight" are upgraded "don't trust".
Sinfire Titan 02-02-08, 04:52 PM	The softer side of Mind Flayers involves a mace, BTW. Sounds like a cool idea for a campaign. Good luck with it. Oh, and don't look into the Illithid Blast feat from CP. Because it is more of a headache to use than anything else.
james_gaines 02-02-08, 06:39 PM	I like the setting, especially the nil and ul-realitiy storms. Without brains the mindflayers will need a new form of sustenance, any thoughts on what that might be? I'd reduce mind blast. Keep it, but have scale up at levels. At first level it should be no more than 10ft long, only a few rounds of stunning, maybe only 1 or 2 times a day.
Sinfire Titan 02-02-08, 06:44 PM	I like the setting, especially the nil and ul-realitiy storms. Without brains the mindflayers will need a new form of sustenance, any thoughts on what that might be? I'd reduce mind blast. Keep it, but have scale up at levels. At first level it should be no more than 10ft long, only a few rounds of stunning, maybe only 1 or 2 times a day. Stunning everything in a 10' cone even ONCE a day at 1st level is way too powerful, especially combined with Psionics. It says Save or Lose, something that has way to much power. Maybe Dazing them at the lower levels, and saving the Stunning part for around 10th level would be more balanced.
runestar 02-02-08, 08:07 PM	Could we just make them pure-classed psions, and their appearance purely cosmetic? Their powers would replicate their innate SLAs such as charm/dominate and mind blast. But stat-wise, they would be equivalent to say, a human or elan telepath.
EvilVegan 02-03-08, 11:41 AM	Could we just make them pure-classed psions, and their appearance purely cosmetic? Their powers would replicate their innate SLAs such as charm/dominate and mind blast. But stat-wise, they would be equivalent to say, a human or elan telepath. I'm down with it, but feel a need for more unique racials. I have no problem using elans, but also wouldn't mind something more bizarre to use as a base creature. But too bizarre typically leads to LA.
EvilVegan 02-03-08, 11:48 AM	I like the setting, especially the nil and ul-realitiy storms.Thank ya.Without brains the mindflayers will need a new form of sustenance, any thoughts on what that might be?Brains. I wasn't going to change their biology, just their mindset. They still require brains to survive. The relish eating justly processed humanoid criminals (tell me that won't deter criminals), but can survive on lesser brains. Monkeys, cows, etc.
teshen 02-03-08, 03:57 PM	I'm down with it, but feel a need for more unique racials. I have no problem using elans, but also wouldn't mind something more bizarre to use as a base creature. . . Racial feats + Racial substitution levels. Maybe?
Saiyamantis 02-03-08, 07:58 PM	Here's what I was able to come up with in about five minutes. I realize it's pushing it for LA +0, but it's something to work from. • –2 Strength, –2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom. Lack of a regular diet of sentient brains weakens an illithid, but their senses remain sharp. • Aberration: Illithids are not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm person or dominate person. • Medium: As Medium creatures, illithids have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Illithid base land speed is 30 feet. • Illithids (unlike most aberrations) do not have darkvision. • Naturally Psionic: Illithids gain 2 bonus power points at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class. • Psi-Like Ability: 1/day—daze. Manifester level is equal to Hit Dice. The save DC is Charisma-based. • +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks. Illithids have subtle empathic abilities, a remnant of their telepathic powers. • Automatic Languages: Common and Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Gnome, Dwarven. Illithids are familiar with the languages of most major underground races. • Favored Class: Psion. • Level Adjustment: +0.
Eldritch_Lord 02-03-08, 08:19 PM	Brains. I wasn't going to change their biology, just their mindset. They still require brains to survive. The relish eating justly processed humanoid criminals (tell me that won't deter criminals), but can survive on lesser brains. Monkeys, cows, etc. Instead of removing their tentacles, make them allergic to "pure" (ie, holy/exalted to just plain LG/NG/CG) brains. Maybe the act of committing a crime releases some sort of "evil endorphins" that makes sentient brains safe to eat, but otherwise consuming a brain gives them killer migraines and poisons them. That way, you keep the iconic look, make them safe for society, and justify why they're a police force: They are the one who benefit most from catching criminals, and they won't falsely accuse anyone because they wouldn't benefit from it at all. Thoughts?
EvilVegan 02-04-08, 08:04 AM	Instead of removing their tentacles, make them allergic to "pure" (ie, holy/exalted to just plain LG/NG/CG) brains. Maybe the act of committing a crime releases some sort of "evil endorphins" that makes sentient brains safe to eat, but otherwise consuming a brain gives them killer migraines and poisons them. That way, you keep the iconic look, make them safe for society, and justify why they're a police force: They are the one who benefit most from catching criminals, and they won't falsely accuse anyone because they wouldn't benefit from it at all. Thoughts? That thought is so delicious it makes me want to eat your brain. I mean, the Bastions are already being held together by divine energy. I'll just have my primary city be held together by a good deity. Anyone with "pure thoughts" latently absorbs this and gets the equivalent of poisonous brains. Everyone could have a hole in their head for the nubbys to taste their brain to see if they're good/bad, like a retinal scan! (just kidding) Also, this would lead some of the more sinister flayers to try to lead people into straying from the side of good, so they could eat their brains. Which opens up a whole new aspect of their culture and makes them the new force of corruption. . . So we've got a police force and a few fallen individuals that try to corrupt people so they can eat them. In a really loose, squinty way, this would make their dynamic more resemble angels and devils. Divine protectors that punish evil-doers and evil shadow-men pushing men to corruption (to punish them).
EvilVegan 02-04-08, 09:17 AM	Here's what I was able to come up with in about five minutes. I realize it's pushing it for LA +0, but it's something to work from. • –2 Strength, –2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom. Lack of a regular diet of sentient brains weakens an illithid, but their senses remain sharp. • Aberration: Illithids are not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm person or dominate person. • Medium: As Medium creatures, illithids have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Illithid base land speed is 30 feet. • Illithids (unlike most aberrations) do not have darkvision. • Naturally Psionic: Illithids gain 2 bonus power points at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class. • Psi-Like Ability: 1/day—daze. Manifester level is equal to Hit Dice. The save DC is Charisma-based. • +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks. Illithids have subtle empathic abilities, a remnant of their telepathic powers. • Automatic Languages: Common and Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Gnome, Dwarven. Illithids are familiar with the languages of most major underground races. • Favored Class: Psion. • Level Adjustment: +0. Thx for saving me the trouble. That's almost exactly what I had floating around in my head. I wasn't going to stat them up unless someone wanted to play them, but this works well. *!snatch!*
Eldritch_Lord 02-04-08, 06:20 PM	That thought is so delicious it makes me want to eat your brain. Thanks :cool:...but I thought Vegans couldn't eat brains...? I mean, the Bastions are already being held together by divine energy. I'll just have my primary city be held together by a good deity. Anyone with "pure thoughts" latently absorbs this and gets the equivalent of poisonous brains. Everyone could have a hole in their head for the nubbys to taste their brain to see if they're good/bad, like a retinal scan! (just kidding) Why not? It's a poor man's (poor illithid's?) X-ray machine! Think of the medical benefits! Also, this would lead some of the more sinister flayers to try to lead people into straying from the side of good, so they could eat their brains. Which opens up a whole new aspect of their culture and makes them the new force of corruption. . . So we've got a police force and a few fallen individuals that try to corrupt people so they can eat them. In a really loose, squinty way, this would make their dynamic more resemble angels and devils. Divine protectors that punish evil-doers and evil shadow-men pushing men to corruption (to punish them). That's what I was thinking as well.
porkloinio 02-04-08, 10:57 PM	i wish my DM would use more mind flayers, we only met one in half a year i'm a flayerspawn psycic and i think illithids are awesome
Eldritch_Lord 02-04-08, 11:07 PM	i wish my DM would use more mind flayers, we only met one in half a year i'm a flayerspawn psycic and i think illithids are awesome Be glad you only met one; speaking as a DM, I can make Illithids into some of the worst BBEGs you can face with a judicious application of feats and levels.
Tanegar 02-04-08, 11:16 PM	Dude, you cannot have your mind flayers amputate their tentacles. Stick to Eldritch Lord's suggestion.
EvilVegan 02-07-08, 12:52 PM	i wish my DM would use more mind flayers, we only met one in half a year i'm a flayerspawn psycic and i think illithids are awesome Your whole party was abducted by illithids for many months. They just wiped your brains of the whole ordeal. . . Tragic really. Dude, you cannot have your mind flayers amputate their tentacles. Stick to Eldritch Lord's suggestion. I know. It would be for the more exalted members of the population. It is a sign of utter disconnection with their past. Not something a typical, villainous mind flayer would do. Some would still have them. Kind of like really public circumcisions... ow.
forrestfire15 02-07-08, 01:56 PM	I love this campaign idea! Next time I DM, I think I'll steal this. Thanks :cool:...but I thought Vegans couldn't eat brains...? they can if the recipent is in a coma ("vegitable").
EvilVegan 02-07-08, 02:27 PM	they can if the recipent is in a coma ("vegitable").Dangit I forgot to respond! Yes, I can eat anything that doesn't/wouldn't run from me. This puts pets, babies, and coma-patients on my list of "things I can eat".
EvilVegan 02-09-08, 04:27 PM	Hey guys, if you like this concept or the campaign setting idea, please post suggestions or comments in my Sunderverse (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=988651) thread. Just want to have as much input as possible before I get to playing.
Eldritch_Lord 02-14-08, 07:53 PM	they can if the recipent is in a coma ("vegitable"). :rimshot: Saw that one coming a mile away.
CryoSilver 02-16-08, 01:02 PM	Won't be LA 0, but you'd get a less powerful mind flayer by applying the half illithid template to a human, even if that would normally get you a full flayer.
Pulpo 02-19-08, 11:57 AM	If they live in a city with other beings the will most likely need a new way to reproduce. Starting life as a paracitic tadpole and living in the body of another humanoid dosen't seem to fit an intergrated city.
Eldritch_Lord 02-19-08, 07:07 PM	If they live in a city with other beings the will most likely need a new way to reproduce. Starting life as a paracitic tadpole and living in the body of another humanoid dosen't seem to fit an intergrated city. 1) What do you do with "reformed" criminals whose brains are too poisonous to eat? 2) Why do the other races have to know?
Drackthor 02-20-08, 03:05 AM	Dude, you cannot have your mind flayers amputate their tentacles. Stick to Eldritch Lord's suggestion. Seconded.
Drackthor 02-20-08, 03:06 AM	1) What do you do with "reformed" criminals whose brains are too poisonous to eat? 2) Why do the other races have to know? Wait. So if they do bad, bam, mind-devoured. If they do bad but want to make up for it, we go all Aliens I through III on them? Kinda evil for a Good Guy-ish type of Mindflayer.
Eldritch_Lord 02-20-08, 05:58 PM	Wait. So if they do bad, bam, mind-devoured. If they do bad but want to make up for it, we go all Aliens I through III on them? Kinda evil for a Good Guy-ish type of Mindflayer. Well, it's not so much Aliens, but more like: Hardened Killer--"On this 4th day of Flamerule, I hereby carry out the sentence of death pronounced upon you. May your soul rot in the hell of your religion. Three, two, one, :coolcthul *eats brain*" Habitual Shoplifter--"On this 4th day of Flamerule, I hereby carry out the sentence of death pronounced upon you. May your soul rot in the hell of your religion. Three, two--*hack, cough* Dammit, he's still not evil enough to eat....Oh well, looks like he'll be the next illithid on the force. :coolcthul *implant*"
Old_School_Overlord 02-20-08, 06:23 PM	How about this; Their daily sustenance comes from the brains of the recently dead as part of the cultures traditional Funeral rites - indeed, the death of a particulatly effective leader might be cause for great reverence amongst Mind Flayers, who would gather in great numbers to partake of his wisdom and goodness. It could be incorporated into the religions that the brain must be consumed before the soul can be released to the afterlife - it would certainly cut down on certain types of undead! Reproduction would come from the seramophisis of condemned criminals - this would be seen as preferable to a death sentance - the body is conserved and the soul redeemned as a new and beneign Mind Flayer, ready to serve the community. The best bit would be having Mind Flayers discretely asking if the PCs have already nominated who will be ushering them on to the next world?
Eldritch_Lord 02-20-08, 06:33 PM	The best bit would be having Mind Flayers discretely asking if the PCs have already nominated who will be ushering them on to the next world? Really creepy; I like it.
Drackthor 02-20-08, 06:41 PM	Really creepy; I like it. Same here. I can totally just picture the 4 adventurers and this Mindflayer in an elevator together. "What floor?" "3rd." *presses button* "So, uh...you guys pick who'll be delivering your soul already?" "WHAT?!" "Oh, just curious."
WereForged 02-20-08, 06:53 PM	Thank ya.Brains. I wasn't going to change their biology, just their mindset. They still require brains to survive. The relish eating justly processed humanoid criminals (tell me that won't deter criminals), but can survive on lesser brains. Monkeys, cows, etc. And if that bit doesn't work you can just have them live of thoughts instead. Like some sort of thing that feeds of negative thoughts or soemthing. or positive or whatever.
Old_School_Overlord 02-20-08, 06:56 PM	And there's more! Word gets around that one of the PCs is near death, and a little huddle of 'Flayers gather outside, waiting to "pay their respects". A Mind Flayer approaches them, suggesting that since they kill so many sentient creatures, it should accompany them to provide proper burials for them - and it expects to be paid for this. After an extended period of peace and prosperity, it comes to light that the Mind Flayer population is slowly starving to death, so "The Friends of the Mind Flayers" start visiting door to door suggesting that the elderly, sick or depressed might like to help aleviate their suffering. The Elder Brain is persuaded to assist in the education of the young, and its pool is relocated to the largest school where it imprints knowledge directly into the pupils as they play. At the hearty recomendation of their physicians, expectant mothers use the Elder Brain's chamber as a birthing pool - ensuring the minds of the tiny infants are soothed throughout the process. *Edit* They also offer an extensive range of services - psychiatry and relationship counselling or just a soothing warm mucus scalp massage. A trained psychic chiurgion can nibble away any distressing memories, phobias, addictions or bad habbits (and that hole in your skull will heal right up!). Best of all, they can preserve parts of the brain from highly skilled individuals - for the right price you can have your motor control functions carefully consumed and replaced with those of a legendry swordsman.
Eldritch_Lord 02-20-08, 08:35 PM	And there's more! Word gets around that one of the PCs is near death, and a little huddle of 'Flayers gather outside, waiting to "pay their respects". A Mind Flayer approaches them, suggesting that since they kill so many sentient creatures, it should accompany them to provide proper burials for them - and it expects to be paid for this. After an extended period of peace and prosperity, it comes to light that the Mind Flayer population is slowly starving to death, so "The Friends of the Mind Flayers" start visiting door to door suggesting that the elderly, sick or depressed might like to help aleviate their suffering. The Elder Brain is persuaded to assist in the education of the young, and its pool is relocated to the largest school where it imprints knowledge directly into the pupils as they play. At the hearty recomendation of their physicians, expectant mothers use the Elder Brain's chamber as a birthing pool - ensuring the minds of the tiny infants are soothed throughout the process. *Edit* They also offer an extensive range of services - psychiatry and relationship counselling or just a soothing warm mucus scalp massage. A trained psychic chiurgion can nibble away any distressing memories, phobias, addictions or bad habbits (and that hole in your skull will heal right up!). Best of all, they can preserve parts of the brain from highly skilled individuals - for the right price you can have your motor control functions carefully consumed and replaced with those of a legendry swordsman. Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! Goblin A: Look out! Humans! Goblin B: Eh, no problem. They're all pathetic weaklings anyway. Goblin A: But one of them has face-tentacle-thingys. Goblin B: And...? Goblin A: Doesn't that mean it's an illithid? Goblin B: A wha? Goblin A: You know, mind flayers; the ones-- Goblin B: Yeah, the ones who stick around and pay the...pay the...last respects...to the deceased.... Goblin A: *looks at B* Goblin B: *looks at A* :coolcthul: Oh, don't mind me. On a completely unrelated note, would you happen to have any elderly relatives? Goblins: .... :coolcthul: By the way, my clients here paid for a Common Burial, so if you wish to have an Anti-Undead No-Animation GuaranteeTM now is a good time to say so. Goblins: .... :coolcthul: Ah, well...I asked. Sic 'em.
EvilVegan 02-21-08, 08:37 AM	Excellent!!!!!!!!! :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul Awesome suggestions all around.