Tiniest race? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Tiniest race? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Perseus_Stoned
04-29-07, 07:35 PM What are some of the tiniest (viable) races to play?

I'm doing an optimization experiment for a THF, but the smaller the race the better (Strength is a close second, though).
RoastedSwiners
04-29-07, 08:12 PM Depends on if you consider a Grig a playable race. They are tiny but have a +3 level adjustment.
bloodtalon
04-29-07, 08:23 PM if you had from 2e and wanted to work it
MONSTROUS COMPENDIUM ANNUAL VOLUME FOUR try the Kerpas
small squirrle folk
bobothechimp
04-29-07, 09:59 PM Jermalines from MM2 are tiny, and the 3.5 update gave them an LA +0.
pmurray@bigpond.com
04-29-07, 11:30 PM Pixies are +4, but they have greater invis at will - handy if you are a rogue.
Romulus LoneWolf
04-29-07, 11:46 PM I'm surprised nobody's statted a Smurf race...
zook1shoe666
04-30-07, 12:02 AM umm.... awakened mouse or rat? :-p
Perseus_Stoned
04-30-07, 12:54 AM umm.... awakened mouse or rat? :-p

You'd need the stats of those individuals first ;)
diphycue
04-30-07, 01:25 AM See if your DM would work with you to create a Tiny, Diminutive, or Fine humanoid race...Ever see the movie, the Borrowers? Anyhow...for Diminutive and Fine, though, Str of 1 or 2 would probably be a racial maximum.
Nathreet
04-30-07, 01:39 AM I'm surprised nobody's statted a Smurf race...
Sooo tempted. What would they be? Diminutive? I mean, house cats are tiny.

I'd give them the appropriate size bonuses/penalties to str, dex, AB, AC and movement. +2 to perform(singing). +3 to any one skill of their choice, or they may choose a +3 to a certain set of ability checks with the DM's approval (this, however, provides no bonus to the associated ability). The player's name must be related to this choice. Favored Class: sorceror.
penchant
04-30-07, 02:05 AM See if your DM would work with you to create a Tiny, Diminutive, or Fine humanoid race...Ever see the movie, the Borrowers? Anyhow...for Diminutive and Fine, though, Str of 1 or 2 would probably be a racial maximum.

size has little to do with strength scores. It affects carrying capacity and thus how much they can lift. But a tiny creature can still have a 10 str and do 1d2 with thier tiny swords, not 1d2-4.
ServanWolf
04-30-07, 03:45 AM diminutive races are alsog ood for spellcasters :) ...high AC and so on, and cause wizard need not to fight, they can be little and make even powerfull spells ... and have no need of lot money for buying items and so on :p * and you cna use your companions as mounts :D ...and have total cover behind their head :p*
Sphyre
04-30-07, 04:07 AM You'd need the stats of those individuals first ;)

The rules have the information for rats already. You'd get the two hitdice from being awakened.
j3st3r
04-30-07, 04:30 AM IMHO smallest viable player race would be sized as TINY (A Tiny creature is typically between 1 and 2 feet in height or length and weighs between 1 and 8 pounds.):

- Brownie (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/al/20041006a)
- Musteval (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/boed_gallery/75111.jpg)
- Muckdweller (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sk_gallery/82341.jpg)
- Petal (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83032.jpg)
zook1shoe666
04-30-07, 09:25 AM diminutive races are alsog ood for spellcasters :) ...high AC and so on, and cause wizard need not to fight, they can be little and make even powerfull spells ... and have no need of lot money for buying items and so on :p * and you cna use your companions as mounts :D ...and have total cover behind their head :p*

only problem with being smaller than Small is, having 0-ft reach and having to move into people's squares to use melee touch spells. obviously, there are feats that allow you to not provoke these attacks of opportunity, but that wastes a good feat slot.

IMHO smallest viable player race would be sized as TINY (A Tiny creature is typically between 1 and 2 feet in height or length and weighs between 1 and 8 pounds.):

oh of course i agree with that... just thats not what was being asked ;). most of the "races" that small, require special player to play them, since many cannot play non-Humanoid-like creatures. well 99% of the ones i have dealt with cannot.
ServanWolf
04-30-07, 09:35 AM but what bit an aranea or a blink dog... you cannot say they are really humanoid...really that dog but they have level adjustment..may anyone take them as character? *and what with advancement in that kind of creatures?*
Captain_Cookies
05-01-07, 05:33 PM i know a guy whos dm let him play a psuedodragon
diphycue
05-08-07, 11:32 PM I had so much fun in a game playing an Ansute, a race of Diminutive humanoids me and the DM came up with. I played an Adept (NPC classes only for the Ansute), and spent most of my time in the hood of the barbarian. He'd go rushing into battle, and I would Cure him, and also use a wand of Searing Light from his shoulder. Great teamwork, and a lot of fun RP. I had a hawk familiar, that I rode around and did arial reconnassaince with. Most of the rest of the time I made poisons in my mobile alchemist's lab. We even made PrCs for the Ansute, I was going to be an Ansute Scorpion Shaman, kind of a cross between the Hexer and the Assassin...ahhh, good times.

Anyhow, there's A LOT of fun stuff that can happen when your character is only 10 inches tall. Hehe...almost got eaten by a house cat early in the campaign.
zook1shoe666
05-09-07, 11:24 AM must have been a really BIG housecat or a really hungry one ;)
snakebliskan
05-09-07, 01:05 PM Ok just bring back the quickling!
obrysii
05-09-07, 01:55 PM Hengeyokai (Sparrow)

In their Sparrow form, they are Fine-sized with Dex 23...
echoota
05-09-07, 02:25 PM Hengeyokai (Sparrow)

In their Sparrow form, they are Fine-sized with Dex 23...

Yes, I'm playing a Hengeyokai (Sparrow) Psion right now and it works great. Best part is that with the Dragon update on Oriental Adventures they get rid of the +1 LA!

But yeah, since psions don't require any kind of verbal or somatic elements to manifest powers my character is almost constantly in sparrow form and just manifesting this and that all the time. My AC is 23, my hide starts off at +22, my initiative is +6, I fly 50 feet. I picked up improved flight so I could hover like a bumble bee... it all works pretty well.

And of course it also works rather well since I'm just a sparrow. If the DM works with you on this then you can sneak about and do a lot of stuff almost as if you were invisible since most things will find sparrows innoculous and not even on their radar. If you focus on mental powers then there are no visual or audible manifestations of what your doing. So you could fly into the castle gate and mindthrust the guards at your liesure, then transform into hybrid form and hit the winch to open the gate, etc.
obrysii
05-09-07, 02:53 PM Not to mention that your Ranged Attack bonus is innately +14 (+8 size + 6 dex).

+14 on ranged touch attacks for a spellcaster/psion isn't to shabby!
feraltibbit
05-09-07, 03:26 PM Try out the Guardinal: Musteval; a ferret-type guardinal race that starts off Tiny and can increase in HD size to small if you so desire (wouldn't suggest it though; gotta have that +2 size-AC). It's an ECL5 w/great abilities. Try it w/rouge and any of the other classes and PrClasses with some type of sneak-attack equivalent. It's lovely, and more than likely, he/she'll have a little clout being origally from The Blessed Fields of Elysium, one of the parts of the heavens.
Book of Exalted Deeds (sorry; 4got which page).
snakeman830
05-11-07, 08:59 AM I'm surprised nobody's statted a Smurf race...

I've been trying, but all I've got is: Fine Fey (They really are that small. they live in mushrooms!)
penchant
05-11-07, 09:10 AM I've been trying, but all I've got is: Fine Fey (They really are that small. they live in mushrooms!) They are officially 'three apples tall' This puts them in Tiny, not Fine.

Each one had one specific talent for which it was named. Perhaps you choose any one (or two) skill(s) as a class skill and gain ranks in it up to your hit die. Or get skill focus as a racial feat. OR both.

They are all male and are created rather than born. Smurfette was herself a creation, but not by the normal means (whatever that is). Living Construct?

I can't think of any actual useful abilities that they have, or any stats that would be exceptional.
Ithamar
05-11-07, 11:44 AM i know a guy whos dm let him play a psuedodragon

You say that like its a bad thing. I currently have a VoP Pseudodragon Warlock. It has been a bit challenging, but still fun overall. :)
fiendish_platypus
05-11-07, 11:59 AM I've been trying, but all I've got is: Fine Fey (They really are that small. they live in mushrooms!)

I actually have, it's somewher in my billions of D+D stuff, but I put them at tiny, Three apples tall,
KoraktheBarbarin
05-11-07, 12:21 PM I don't even think they have 3rd Edition Stats but If I remember right Quickling's were Tiny size.:)
Raven Bloodmoon
05-11-07, 12:47 PM If it's any help, look up Arcana Evolved. The Faen Spryte is Tiny, flies, and makes a wicked spellcaster.

I currently have worked out a diminutive race of fey-like creatures that only suffer a +1 LA. Strangely, they are blue and 6 inches tall. Unlike smurfs, however, they are more akin to angry little scottsmen that tend to punch, kick, and headbutt their way through massive clan wars they are currently engaged in. They also make a really nasty squishy sound when a knight in shining armor accidentally trods through one of their battlefields...
fiendish_platypus
05-11-07, 12:54 PM I currently have worked out a diminutive race of fey-like creatures that only suffer a +1 LA. Strangely, they are blue and 6 inches tall. Unlike smurfs, however, they are more akin to angry little scottsmen that tend to punch, kick, and headbutt their way through massive clan wars they are currently engaged in. They also make a really nasty squishy sound when a knight in shining armor accidentally trods through one of their battlefields...

Sounds pretty awesome, do you have any stats for them?
Draginja
05-11-07, 09:06 PM Here is a diminutive race from the Toho Mothra movies...

http://www.tohokingdom.com/articles/d20/pc/elias.htm

Not realy up to copying and pasting, just use the link.
snakeman830
05-15-07, 03:54 PM They are officially 'three apples tall' This puts them in Tiny, not Fine.

I remember the show, not the official little literature. They were about the size of apples from what I saw, not three apples tall (unless you're talking crab apples).
penchant
05-15-07, 04:09 PM I remember the show, not the official little literature. They were about the size of apples from what I saw, not three apples tall (unless you're talking crab apples).

Well then what kind of Smurf afficianado are you? Ha, I'm just being ana1 about my childhood. I grew up before the American cartoon show.
malak92
05-16-07, 06:24 PM Ever hear of a leprechan? they are small guys with some amazingly fun racial abilities plus, ye Pot O' Gold. check them up for good RPing ability and fighting, check with DM tho. =)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Perseus_Stoned 04-29-07, 07:35 PM	What are some of the tiniest (viable) races to play? I'm doing an optimization experiment for a THF, but the smaller the race the better (Strength is a close second, though).
RoastedSwiners 04-29-07, 08:12 PM	Depends on if you consider a Grig a playable race. They are tiny but have a +3 level adjustment.
bloodtalon 04-29-07, 08:23 PM	if you had from 2e and wanted to work it MONSTROUS COMPENDIUM ANNUAL VOLUME FOUR try the Kerpas small squirrle folk
bobothechimp 04-29-07, 09:59 PM	Jermalines from MM2 are tiny, and the 3.5 update gave them an LA +0.
pmurray@bigpond.com 04-29-07, 11:30 PM	Pixies are +4, but they have greater invis at will - handy if you are a rogue.
Romulus LoneWolf 04-29-07, 11:46 PM	I'm surprised nobody's statted a Smurf race...
zook1shoe666 04-30-07, 12:02 AM	umm.... awakened mouse or rat? :-p
Perseus_Stoned 04-30-07, 12:54 AM	umm.... awakened mouse or rat? :-p You'd need the stats of those individuals first ;)
diphycue 04-30-07, 01:25 AM	See if your DM would work with you to create a Tiny, Diminutive, or Fine humanoid race...Ever see the movie, the Borrowers? Anyhow...for Diminutive and Fine, though, Str of 1 or 2 would probably be a racial maximum.
Nathreet 04-30-07, 01:39 AM	I'm surprised nobody's statted a Smurf race... Sooo tempted. What would they be? Diminutive? I mean, house cats are tiny. I'd give them the appropriate size bonuses/penalties to str, dex, AB, AC and movement. +2 to perform(singing). +3 to any one skill of their choice, or they may choose a +3 to a certain set of ability checks with the DM's approval (this, however, provides no bonus to the associated ability). The player's name must be related to this choice. Favored Class: sorceror.
penchant 04-30-07, 02:05 AM	See if your DM would work with you to create a Tiny, Diminutive, or Fine humanoid race...Ever see the movie, the Borrowers? Anyhow...for Diminutive and Fine, though, Str of 1 or 2 would probably be a racial maximum. size has little to do with strength scores. It affects carrying capacity and thus how much they can lift. But a tiny creature can still have a 10 str and do 1d2 with thier tiny swords, not 1d2-4.
ServanWolf 04-30-07, 03:45 AM	diminutive races are alsog ood for spellcasters :) ...high AC and so on, and cause wizard need not to fight, they can be little and make even powerfull spells ... and have no need of lot money for buying items and so on :p * and you cna use your companions as mounts :D ...and have total cover behind their head :p*
Sphyre 04-30-07, 04:07 AM	You'd need the stats of those individuals first ;) The rules have the information for rats already. You'd get the two hitdice from being awakened.
j3st3r 04-30-07, 04:30 AM	IMHO smallest viable player race would be sized as TINY (A Tiny creature is typically between 1 and 2 feet in height or length and weighs between 1 and 8 pounds.): - Brownie (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/al/20041006a) - Musteval (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/boed_gallery/75111.jpg) - Muckdweller (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sk_gallery/82341.jpg) - Petal (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/83032.jpg)
zook1shoe666 04-30-07, 09:25 AM	diminutive races are alsog ood for spellcasters :) ...high AC and so on, and cause wizard need not to fight, they can be little and make even powerfull spells ... and have no need of lot money for buying items and so on :p * and you cna use your companions as mounts :D ...and have total cover behind their head :p* only problem with being smaller than Small is, having 0-ft reach and having to move into people's squares to use melee touch spells. obviously, there are feats that allow you to not provoke these attacks of opportunity, but that wastes a good feat slot. IMHO smallest viable player race would be sized as TINY (A Tiny creature is typically between 1 and 2 feet in height or length and weighs between 1 and 8 pounds.): oh of course i agree with that... just thats not what was being asked ;). most of the "races" that small, require special player to play them, since many cannot play non-Humanoid-like creatures. well 99% of the ones i have dealt with cannot.
ServanWolf 04-30-07, 09:35 AM	but what bit an aranea or a blink dog... you cannot say they are really humanoid...really that dog but they have level adjustment..may anyone take them as character? and what with advancement in that kind of creatures?
Captain_Cookies 05-01-07, 05:33 PM	i know a guy whos dm let him play a psuedodragon
diphycue 05-08-07, 11:32 PM	I had so much fun in a game playing an Ansute, a race of Diminutive humanoids me and the DM came up with. I played an Adept (NPC classes only for the Ansute), and spent most of my time in the hood of the barbarian. He'd go rushing into battle, and I would Cure him, and also use a wand of Searing Light from his shoulder. Great teamwork, and a lot of fun RP. I had a hawk familiar, that I rode around and did arial reconnassaince with. Most of the rest of the time I made poisons in my mobile alchemist's lab. We even made PrCs for the Ansute, I was going to be an Ansute Scorpion Shaman, kind of a cross between the Hexer and the Assassin...ahhh, good times. Anyhow, there's A LOT of fun stuff that can happen when your character is only 10 inches tall. Hehe...almost got eaten by a house cat early in the campaign.
zook1shoe666 05-09-07, 11:24 AM	must have been a really BIG housecat or a really hungry one ;)
snakebliskan 05-09-07, 01:05 PM	Ok just bring back the quickling!
obrysii 05-09-07, 01:55 PM	Hengeyokai (Sparrow) In their Sparrow form, they are Fine-sized with Dex 23...
echoota 05-09-07, 02:25 PM	Hengeyokai (Sparrow) In their Sparrow form, they are Fine-sized with Dex 23... Yes, I'm playing a Hengeyokai (Sparrow) Psion right now and it works great. Best part is that with the Dragon update on Oriental Adventures they get rid of the +1 LA! But yeah, since psions don't require any kind of verbal or somatic elements to manifest powers my character is almost constantly in sparrow form and just manifesting this and that all the time. My AC is 23, my hide starts off at +22, my initiative is +6, I fly 50 feet. I picked up improved flight so I could hover like a bumble bee... it all works pretty well. And of course it also works rather well since I'm just a sparrow. If the DM works with you on this then you can sneak about and do a lot of stuff almost as if you were invisible since most things will find sparrows innoculous and not even on their radar. If you focus on mental powers then there are no visual or audible manifestations of what your doing. So you could fly into the castle gate and mindthrust the guards at your liesure, then transform into hybrid form and hit the winch to open the gate, etc.
obrysii 05-09-07, 02:53 PM	Not to mention that your Ranged Attack bonus is innately +14 (+8 size + 6 dex). +14 on ranged touch attacks for a spellcaster/psion isn't to shabby!
feraltibbit 05-09-07, 03:26 PM	Try out the Guardinal: Musteval; a ferret-type guardinal race that starts off Tiny and can increase in HD size to small if you so desire (wouldn't suggest it though; gotta have that +2 size-AC). It's an ECL5 w/great abilities. Try it w/rouge and any of the other classes and PrClasses with some type of sneak-attack equivalent. It's lovely, and more than likely, he/she'll have a little clout being origally from The Blessed Fields of Elysium, one of the parts of the heavens. Book of Exalted Deeds (sorry; 4got which page).
snakeman830 05-11-07, 08:59 AM	I'm surprised nobody's statted a Smurf race... I've been trying, but all I've got is: Fine Fey (They really are that small. they live in mushrooms!)
penchant 05-11-07, 09:10 AM	I've been trying, but all I've got is: Fine Fey (They really are that small. they live in mushrooms!) They are officially 'three apples tall' This puts them in Tiny, not Fine. Each one had one specific talent for which it was named. Perhaps you choose any one (or two) skill(s) as a class skill and gain ranks in it up to your hit die. Or get skill focus as a racial feat. OR both. They are all male and are created rather than born. Smurfette was herself a creation, but not by the normal means (whatever that is). Living Construct? I can't think of any actual useful abilities that they have, or any stats that would be exceptional.
Ithamar 05-11-07, 11:44 AM	i know a guy whos dm let him play a psuedodragon You say that like its a bad thing. I currently have a VoP Pseudodragon Warlock. It has been a bit challenging, but still fun overall. :)
fiendish_platypus 05-11-07, 11:59 AM	I've been trying, but all I've got is: Fine Fey (They really are that small. they live in mushrooms!) I actually have, it's somewher in my billions of D+D stuff, but I put them at tiny, Three apples tall,
KoraktheBarbarin 05-11-07, 12:21 PM	I don't even think they have 3rd Edition Stats but If I remember right Quickling's were Tiny size.:)
Raven Bloodmoon 05-11-07, 12:47 PM	If it's any help, look up Arcana Evolved. The Faen Spryte is Tiny, flies, and makes a wicked spellcaster. I currently have worked out a diminutive race of fey-like creatures that only suffer a +1 LA. Strangely, they are blue and 6 inches tall. Unlike smurfs, however, they are more akin to angry little scottsmen that tend to punch, kick, and headbutt their way through massive clan wars they are currently engaged in. They also make a really nasty squishy sound when a knight in shining armor accidentally trods through one of their battlefields...
fiendish_platypus 05-11-07, 12:54 PM	I currently have worked out a diminutive race of fey-like creatures that only suffer a +1 LA. Strangely, they are blue and 6 inches tall. Unlike smurfs, however, they are more akin to angry little scottsmen that tend to punch, kick, and headbutt their way through massive clan wars they are currently engaged in. They also make a really nasty squishy sound when a knight in shining armor accidentally trods through one of their battlefields... Sounds pretty awesome, do you have any stats for them?
Draginja 05-11-07, 09:06 PM	Here is a diminutive race from the Toho Mothra movies... http://www.tohokingdom.com/articles/d20/pc/elias.htm Not realy up to copying and pasting, just use the link.
snakeman830 05-15-07, 03:54 PM	They are officially 'three apples tall' This puts them in Tiny, not Fine. I remember the show, not the official little literature. They were about the size of apples from what I saw, not three apples tall (unless you're talking crab apples).
penchant 05-15-07, 04:09 PM	I remember the show, not the official little literature. They were about the size of apples from what I saw, not three apples tall (unless you're talking crab apples). Well then what kind of Smurf afficianado are you? Ha, I'm just being ana1 about my childhood. I grew up before the American cartoon show.
malak92 05-16-07, 06:24 PM	Ever hear of a leprechan? they are small guys with some amazingly fun racial abilities plus, ye Pot O' Gold. check them up for good RPing ability and fighting, check with DM tho. =)