Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ollee64 12-21-07, 12:33 AM	Now i havent done too much searching beyond asking a few people... but are there any Tiny races with minimal level adjustments? Im talking preferably something with a 0 or +1 if i can. i have an elaborate caster idea in the works that will only work with a tiny character. i was looking in the SRD and everything i saw was +3 and id like to avoid that high of a LA. So if you could, be helpful by suggesting a race name and what book it is in, and the LA if you happen to know it. P.S. WotC published stuff only please P.P.S. Btw we play 3.5.
AtsuiShoto 12-21-07, 12:50 AM	I might be persuaded that a Tiny race could be a +2 LA, but only if it didn't have ANY abilities that allowed it to easily fly or easily become invisible. However, I've never seen such a thing in any official sources.
runestar 12-21-07, 01:01 AM	MM3 has the petal, tiny fey at LA+2, but has fly speed of 60ft. No invis though, but excellent stat mods all around.
Ollee64 12-21-07, 01:49 AM	thatnks for the suggestions so fast but i had an epifony(sp?). I realized that i can just go gnome/halfling/dromite and just wait a bit and get Reduce Person made Permanent on me. I dont know why that was so difficult for me figure out. just gotta wait till i get the money... thanks anyways...
Phelix_the_Warrior 12-21-07, 05:03 AM	two that I know of with 0 LA are these Jermlaine: -6 Str +6 Dex -2 Con -2 Int +6 Wis -6 Cha, tiny, 40 ft., rogue, fey, monster manual 2 pg.131 Muckdweller: -6 Str +6 Dex -2 Cha, tiny, 20 ft. (swim 20 ft.), squirt (ex), monstrous humanoid, serpent kingdoms pg.71 first is pretty much a muck fairy, second is a tiny lizardman
sigma999 12-21-07, 07:12 AM	Why the hell are Jermlaines not Druids, Monks, or Clerics... or even Adepts. :( Consider PC CharOp abuse first and go towards "less powerful" from there. I'll be delving into the potential for a variable Sprite race soon for the Feybook project, so this discussion is of interest to me. In your opinions, would low level flight be more balanced if the character could take no action other than "move" while flying?
AtsuiShoto 12-21-07, 01:52 PM	In your opinions, would low level flight be more balanced if the character could take no action other than "move" while flying?Yes. The only reason low-level flight may be a problem is that it requires specific counters in order to not render a character nigh-invincible. In typical campaigns, the low-CR foes lack (good) ranged attack options, and they certainly lack flight, so a flying wizard can hover outside an enemy's reach and throw down nasty spells from scrolls with near impunity. A flying rogue facing low-CR traps can just bypass them completely. A flying barbarian can get the advantages of a charge without worrying about rough terrain. Now, if you restrict flight to just flying, then most of these issues go away. There are a variety of restrictions that can be imposed to make flight a non-problem in low-level games. Heck, low-level games can simply be designed with the option of flight in mind, presenting obstacles or challenges that a flying character can't just avoid.
Grizzled Gryphon 12-22-07, 09:05 AM	Concerning the Petal as presented by Runestar: It doesn't technically have a LA, per se. It has a Cohort LA. That does not equate to regular LA. They would have at least a LA of +4.
Ecalsneerg 12-22-07, 01:19 PM	thatnks for the suggestions so fast but i had an epifony(sp?). I realized that i can just go gnome/halfling/dromite and just wait a bit and get Reduce Person made Permanent on me. I dont know why that was so difficult for me figure out. just gotta wait till i get the money... thanks anyways... Two words will end your day there... Dispel Magic
Ollee64 12-22-07, 04:43 PM	Two words will end your day there... Dispel Magic Yeah i was thinking about that and idk if this is sad or just good reading but my DM isnt a d**k of enough to do dispel, because for some reason he feels its too complicated. Instead he will throw anti-magic fields when there are spaces that only a tiny character can get through. but since im thinking i may be leaning towards a Psion, i may just go with Phelix's suggestions....unless someone else has any other idea's for tiny's...i asked my one friend(hes our standard repository for all D&D knowledge) and he didnt have any more ideas... In your opinions, would low level flight be more balanced if the character could take no action other than "move" while flying? The thing is that the flight ability needs to advance its-self. Possibly something along the lines of a flying speed advancement something like 10ft at first then +10ft advancement once in a while as leveling, along with the expanding of the various actions one can preform while flying. Im talking like first moving only, then expanding it to all move actions, next to only an action(kinda like zombie), then move and limited actions(so you dont get someone with a reach weapon floating out of reach knocking the baddies with full attacks{this one can be dumped really}), then eventually to standard movement as the rules state it now. its all alittle more complicated, but effective....i have more to say but i gtg...
archerpwr 12-22-07, 05:30 PM	Dragonborn Jermlain. Problem solved.
Phelix_the_Warrior 12-22-07, 06:49 PM	Why the hell are Jermlaines not Druids, Monks, or Clerics... or even Adepts. :( Consider PC CharOp abuse first and go towards "less powerful" from there. I'll be delving into the potential for a variable Sprite race soon for the Feybook project, so this discussion is of interest to me. In your opinions, would low level flight be more balanced if the character could take no action other than "move" while flying? well SOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRY Princess I was just posting the two tiny races I know dont have LA, no need to jump down my throat...
sigma999 12-25-07, 12:42 PM	Hm fascinating responses. Much more intelligent than the last time I asked this forum! "No. Just no. Flying at low levels is broken." and such. :rolleyes: I'll put a limitation for such flight along with a Tiny race in the Feybook project. Next problem, what kind of name for a generic Spritely race (that becomes various other types)... the Wee One? Sprite? Spriteling? Tinkerbellwannabe?
Rahvan 12-25-07, 04:27 PM	but since im thinking i may be leaning towards a Psion........ Maybe you could look at the Tibbit from Dragon Compendium I (Yes, WotC published for all who ask.) With casters this small race that can turn to a feline (and become tiny in the process) might not work, since you can do no verbal and somatic components while in cat form, but since Psion doesn't need verbal, nor somatic, components, so you could manifest away while being tiny. It's a simple thing... and you can turn smaller by taking expanded learning at lvl 3 to get the compression power from the Psychic Warrior. The flying... well, can't help there, unless you wish to waste a power at 5th level to get levitate, psionic. (-2 str, +2 dex, darkvision 60', 20' movement, Feline transformation, +2 bonus to spot, escape artist and jump, Monstrous humanoid.( In cat form -8 str (min. 3) and +2 dex, other stats remain the same.)) Just my two coppers
sigma999 12-25-07, 10:03 PM	So once again, would the move-action-only restriction help make a cat form more balanced, or just ruin the whole concept (like.. you'll never be able to catch mice) Is there some unifying term for "spellcasting that also applies to manifesting and invocations"? Or would one have to spell that out in the racial ability in order to prevent spellcasting abuse. It's probably OK to 'give back' the capability to cast spells in animal form at a later level, though. edit: Don't know which, but probably around 5+ when a single Wizard can re-enact the entire Bombing of Dresden.
Rahvan 12-26-07, 01:32 AM	Well, changing to cat form takes a standard action, and changing back to humanoid form takes a full round action. And one cannot change to feline form after he has been at least 1 hour in humanoid form. and the traits specifically say "A tibbit's cat form is unable to speak or use her paws to manipulate fine objects. She cannot cast spells with a verbal or somatic component, use scrolls, or otherwise activate magic items." Which basically means that one could cast a silenced and stilled spell while in cat form... (Can see why I like psionics? They don't have that **** like verbal and somatic components.) And I missed something in the previous post. In cat form a tibbit gains 10' bonus to her base land speed (for a total of 30 that is), she gains the scent special ability, she gains two claw attacks (1D2), and one bite (1D3) (the claws are the primary weapon, the bite the secondary) "A tibbit's equipment usually transforms to become part of her cat body. She loses the benefits of any weapons, shields, armor, or robes she wears or carries. Items that require a physical apparatus to function, such as a ring or a pair of boots, shift to adopt a form suitable to a cat, such as a collar or anklet and continue to provide their benefits. A tibbit's cat form is unable to speak or use her paws to manipulate fine objects." but other then some minor drawbacks... it's a cool race, for a rogue or psion that is...
sigma999 12-27-07, 04:29 AM	Indeed. Might be just the thing my girlfriend was looking for.
Rulebook 12-27-07, 03:04 PM	i made a race a while back based partly on Willow's Brownies, and the Borrowers. they had no particular abilities besides being remarkably strong for thier size (read: for thier size) i just remember they can carry an awful lot, of heavier stuff that you'd think. but even then they were still like la+3 or something silly. that was as low key as i could make them too! but a tiny wizard, on the back of something small like an air elemental is just sick and almost game breaking!
Ollee64 12-27-07, 11:40 PM	but a tiny wizard, on the back of something small like an air elemental is just sick and almost game breaking! That was my idea with my psion, only i was thinking about like a small riding dog(basset hound style) haha or something like that, maybe exotic....im not sure i havent thought about it much yet...or just sitting on the shoulder of the fighter till the fight...
Rahvan 12-28-07, 07:27 AM	Depending on which way you go and what classes you take you could just take Metamorphosis at level 7, or gain it with expanded learing at level 9. It will allow you to change to a pixie for the flying, some defense, the special attacks: sleep arrow and memory loss arrow. overall a sweet little race to change in. depending on your feat at level 5, 6, or 9 you could even get three uses of the greater invisibility per changing (you only need 1 anyways). since you can get metamorphic Transfer at level 5 if you have at least 13 wisdom.