Post/Author/DateTime	Post
riftdragon 03-04-07, 11:15 PM	I havent thought of a name for it but i designed this race and i anted to see various oppinions on it Size: tiny Stats: -2 strength +2 Dex -2 con +2 int -2 wis +2 Cha Racial ageing: this race reaches maturity at the age of 1000 at the age of 500000 the reach middle age and at the age of 1000000 the reach old age their adverage life expectance is infinate on account of ageing. Racial Abilitys: +1 to all Knolage history checks for every 1000 years of living because they lived threw it. Darkvison: 90 Ft. Speeds: 10ft ground 30 Ft Flying
Perseus_Stoned 03-04-07, 11:18 PM	Why the -2 to Wisdom? And why the +30ft to the commonly accepted 60ft Darkvision range? Are you looking for what you think the LA should be?
riftdragon 03-04-07, 11:20 PM	Yes actually and your opinon on the race. THe - 2 to wisdom is to make up for the +2 cha The Dark vison is because this race primarily lives under ground is caverns and the develuped wings because the caverns they live in were made by medium sized creatures
Perseus_Stoned 03-05-07, 12:03 AM	The Dark vison is because this race primarily lives under ground is caverns and the develuped wings because the caverns they live in were made by medium sized creatures I'd argue that so do dwarves and other subterraneans, yet they still only get 60ft darkvision. Humans live *outside* and I don't think can see clearly for 60ft away (unable to find a reference to back me up on this though, so I might be wrong). I'd still say that most entirely underground races still only get 60ft darkvision... As it stands I'd give it: +4 Flying +2 Caster-oriented Attributes +2 Tiny adjustment The rest of the abilities I guess sort of balance out compared to a normal creature, so all-in-all a +8 LA. Please keep in mind I'm by no means an expert (or some equalified) at LA and could be severely off.
Part-Human2 03-05-07, 01:12 AM	... Racial Abilitys: +1 to all Knolage history checks for every 1000 years of living because they lived threw it. ... Immortal and other long lived races don't get bonuses to Knowledge (History) so why only these underground dwellers? BTW Aging adds Intelligent and thus increases all Knowledge checks since they're Intelligence-based. Perseus_Stoned is way off on LA. I'd say +2 LA at most.
Perseus_Stoned 03-05-07, 01:25 AM	Perseus_Stoned is way off on LA. I'd say +2 LA at most. Yeah, my bad then. I thought I had read somewhere that just adding "flying" to a template increased its LA to +4 though? Although, I'd have to say +2 is low in my opinion. These guys are tiny, flying, spellcasters effectively- thats what they're built for (+ to dex and int/cha). Granted there's that con penalty, but they're also tiny which more than makes up for that. I'd stand by +3 at lowest, in a conservative view point.
asurademon 03-05-07, 01:34 AM	Flying is only worth a +1 LA, not +4. The race looks like a really weak +1 LA to me. I'm pretty sure I read in Savage Species smaller than medium size doesn't warrant an LA, actually the case may even be the opposite but I'm not 100% sure just off the top of my head. As a +8 LA race this race would be EXTREMELY weak. Half-celestials are for example vastly more powerful than this race and they are only +4 LA. Also since officially charisma and intelligence are worth less than strength and constitution (or dexterity which is the only physical ability they actually do get a bonus to), the attributes are not imbalanced in such a way they warrant an LA, in fact quite the opposite. Anyways they get a penalty to both strength and constitution, which are both generally important stats, in fact even for spell-casters constitution is pretty important. I however personally think that what attributes are important depends on the campaign, and other factors, and use the rule that they are equal, but that's not canon. In my opinion they need a few more minor things, and then will be worth that +1 LA (you could get rid of the negative to wisdom for example, and up the bonus to knowledge history to 2, a lot of the core races get better skill bonuses than that). Other wise they are too good for no LA, and yet too weak not to have an LA, unless they are really bad flyers (give them a poor maneuverability, and I honestly don't think they'd be too powerful for a no LA race). Anyways there should be a reason for them to have the attributes they do other than just to be balanced (though that also is important). If you flesh out this race's personality, culture, and history a bit that would help.
Perseus_Stoned 03-05-07, 01:38 AM	Also since officially charisma and intelligence are worth less than strength and constitution, the attributes are not imbalanced in such a way they warrant an LA, in fact quite the opposite. Please tell me where you've heard this because I have never heard anything except the opposite, and I hear the opposite quite frequently. As far as I've known casting stats have always been worth more than any physical stats. I guess the +8 was way overboard, but I'd still stick with a +3. These guys aren't really going to be doing any meleeing whatsoever and, while potentially archers, with their extended lifespan and the like I think its obvious they're meant to tailor to spellcasters. Since their entire race seems to favor that class I think +1 LA is pretty much handing a wizard a spellbook and saying, "Go forth and conquer even easier."
asurademon 03-05-07, 01:52 AM	I think it's the Dungeon Master's Guide. Anyways I've never heard the opposite, and I've been told many a time that physical abilities are worth more than the others, thus why the half-orc has a +2 to one physical ability, and a -2 to two others. Anyways there are races with no LA with a +2 to intelligence, such as gray elves, and they only so having a +2 to intelligence does not automatically warrant an LA. And a +2 both charisma and intelligence is not going to be uber beneficial unless the character is taking levels in both wizard and sorcerrer, and I have no idea why someone would want to take levels of both, talk about a weak combination. That and as far as one for one this race's ability scores are balanced. Ultimately they are going to be no better spell-casters than gray elves (which have +2 to two abilities and -2 to two other abilities). Anyways there are +3 LA races that get a lot of ablity bonuses, and no penalties, for example a half-dragon, which gets a +2 to both intelligence and charisma (along with some even bigger bonuses to other abilities) with no penalties to any ability. Look at what they get for a +3 LA, and I still hear people complain about them being too weak.
Perseus_Stoned 03-05-07, 02:09 AM	I think it's the Dungeon Master's Guide. Anyways I've never heard the opposite, and I've been told many a time that physical abilities are worth more than the others, thus why the half-orc has a +2 to one physical ability, and a -2 to two others. The Half-Orc is also widely regarded as absurdly underpowered, particularly in regards to elves or dwarves, both of which are often used as casters (the dwarves make sense mechanically, but its hard to explain flavorly). I've only heard of people taking half-orc to cover for rolling a 3 in a stat or role-playing purposes. Asura, I've got say I'm not sure if I agree with some of your opinions. I think flying warrants more than a +1 LA (although I guess its maneuverability depends on how severe). While one stat change (of a +2, -2) wouldn't warrant a LA, having 1 additional one, plus a straight-out boost would warrant another +1 (at least) in my opinion. The tiny size and 90ft Darkvision just boosts it to another +1 in my opinion. If flying is only worth a +1, then I guess I'd say its a pretty harsh +3 and might drop it to a +2 if the last +2 to stats is dropped, but I think flying is worth more. That being said, I really have no idea about how to assign level adjustments and am just trying to compare it to other races with similar abilities. Ultimately I say just playtest it and see how it turns out.
Perseus_Stoned 03-05-07, 02:17 AM	Bolded emphasis mineAnyways there are races with no LA with a +2 to intelligence, such as gray elves, and they only so having a +2 to intelligence does not automatically warrant an LA. ... Ultimately they are going to be no better spell-casters than gray elves (which have +2 to two abilities and -2 to two other abilities). Not true, flying, plus tiny size already makes them at least *equal* to gray elf casters, before their own ability racial adjustments are added in. Anyways there are +3 LA races that get a lot of ablity bonuses, and no penalties, for example a half-dragon, which gets a +2 to both intelligence and charisma (along with some even bigger bonuses to other abilities) with no penalties to any ability. Look at what they get for a +3 LA, and I still hear people complain about them being too weak. Thats's because the Half-Dragon template only gives a caster a boost of +2 con and +2 to a casting stat, they're meant for poor hybrid builds of melee and magic; this race is obviously centered around magic casting. Compare this to being small (harder to hit and see), flying (a huge boon for any character, particularly a caster who is already tiny), +2 Dex and +2 Casting stat. The only penalty is -2 to Con; thats it. If these guys are superior to a +3 LA, does that really seem balanced to give them a +1 LA?
asurademon 03-05-07, 02:17 AM	The Half-Orc is also widely regarded as absurdly underpowered, particularly in regards to elves or dwarves, both of which are often used as casters (the dwarves make sense mechanically, but its hard to explain flavorly). I've only heard of people taking half-orc to cover for rolling a 3 in a stat or role-playing purposes. Asura, I've got say I'm not sure if I agree with some of your opinions. I think flying warrants more than a +1 LA (although I guess its maneuverability depends on how severe). While one stat change (of a +2, -2) wouldn't warrant a LA, having 1 additional one, plus a straight-out boost would warrant another +1 (at least) in my opinion. The tiny size and 90ft Darkvision just boosts it to another +1 in my opinion. If flying is only worth a +1, then I guess I'd say its a pretty harsh +3 and might drop it to a +2 if the last +2 to stats is dropped, but I think flying is worth more. That being said, I really have no idea about how to assign level adjustments and am just trying to compare it to other races with similar abilities. Ultimately I say just playtest it and see how it turns out. Personally I actually completely agree with you on the half-orc issue, I think they are underpowered. I also don't think that physical abilities should be treated as being worth more than other ones, but from what I've heard, and remember reading that's officially how things are dealt with. In my own games that's not how I'd deal with determining LA however. According to Savage Species actually to some extent maneuverability makes a difference in how much flight is worth, +1 LA if it's worse than good, and +2 LA if it's good or better. However I don't see any mention of flying speed making a difference, and I think it should. I don't think however that if a race should get a +1 or 2 LA for just flying, they need some other things to make them worth playing in my opinion, at least some bonus skills and other interesting things like the core races get, not necessarily things to really make them more powerful, but at least things to give them some more flavor.
Perseus_Stoned 03-05-07, 02:23 AM	I also don't think that physical abilities should be treated as being worth more than other ones, but from what I've heard, and remember reading that's officially how things are dealt with. Where'd you read/hear this from? According to Savage Species actually to some extent maneuverability makes a difference in how much flight is worth, +1 LA if it's worse than good, and +2 LA if it's good or better. However I don't see any mention of flying speed making a difference, and I think it should. If this is correct (I do not possess this book), than I guess I'd agree with your +2 LA placing, although I'd say they'd be pretty highly powered compared to other +2 LA and would recommend dropping +2/-2 stat array. Probably +2 dex/-2 wis, since I could see an aged race as being more wise, not less, and the tiny size already covers dex. I don't think however that if a race should get a +1 or 2 LA for just flying, they need some other things to make them worth playing in my opinion, at least some bonus skills and other interesting things like the core races get. I think you're under-estimating the ability to fly. Given a certain fly speed and an outdoor environment that effectively means you're immune to melee combat, plus you make an ideal scout and quick hitter.
asurademon 03-05-07, 02:49 AM	Once again, I think it's in the Dungeon Master's Guide. I can't remember for sure, I know I read it somewhere, but unfortunately the Dungeon Master's Guide is the one core book I don't have. Other than that I know these forums aren't exactly the best source, but I've read in several threads here that physical abilities are officially worth more than other ones, and seen plenty of debates over the issue. Flying is great if you are just up against melee fighters, but that advantage can be overcome easily, as spell-casters with long-range spells, and people with long range weapons aren't uncommon in most games I've played. Maybe flying just hasn't been used that effectively in the games I've played in so far, but I've found it's useful, and gains the enemy a minor advantage if they can fly, but ultimately not that hard to deal with, and what it's really useful for is overcoming obsticles. The whole problem with LA anyways is that so much depends on the particulars of a campaign, and what classes the characters are (though in the case of flying class isn't so important), so ultimately I think that LA should probably be adjusted depending on those factors. Anyways flying could be limited as well, for example by both giving them average, or worse manueverability, and even puting a limit on how long a character can fly for, though being able to only fly for so long would really suck for this race since it has such a slow land speed.
Perseus_Stoned 03-05-07, 03:02 AM	...but I've read in several threads here that physical abilities are officially worth more than other ones, and seen plenty of debates over the issue. The thing is I doubt anyone would consider taking this class for melee purposes, regardless of mechanical or flavor reasons. Aeons old race, with all advantages going to further a caster, seems pretty straight forward to me. They could get a -10 to Strength and, as long as they got someone to carry their stuff (and find a way to wear it, yikes), it really wouldn't affect the gameplay whatsoever. Its like the flaws for extra feats, its not really balanced to take one flaw to get one boost, because the boost is something you'll try to maximize, whereas the flaw is something you try to minimize. I'd agree they'd be against some ranged combat, but preparing against two fronts (anti-archers and spellcasters) is a lot easier than worrying about ground combat. Plus the other ranged fighters have the choice between going for the tiny guy flying up that they have a small chance at hitting or attacking the burly fighter headed straight towards them. The whole problem with LA anyways is that so much depends on the particulars of a campaign, and what classes the characters are, so ultimately I think that LA should probably be adjusted depending on those factors. I agree entirely with this and LA should be adjusted depending on factors in the campaign and what the DM feels is just, but since we were given a general LA to assign to this critter, I'd say a minimum of +3 is in order. Funny we haven't heard much from the creator yet :)
asurademon 03-05-07, 03:26 AM	you might be right about the abilitiy scores for spell-casters issue, but still compared to other +3 LA races they seem significantly weak, there's even lower LA races I think they'd be rather weak compared to. Again just take a look at what the half-dragon gets for +3LA (way more than this race does that's for sure). Also the Fey'ri may be good for comparison they are +2 LA and get flight and some other nifty abilities. Of course then there's the drow which are also +2 LA, but I've heard people on these forums say they are too weak to try and base the level of power of a +2LA race on. I think trying to put one up against a few arcane spellcasters of different races and see how this race does probably would be a good idea. Gray elf (because of it also having a +2 to intelligence, and it has no LA), half-dragon (because of it's ability bonuses and LA), Fey'ri (for the sake of puting it up against another flyer), and human would probably be good ones to do this with.
Perseus_Stoned 03-05-07, 03:30 AM	you're might be right about the abilitiy scores for spell-casters issue, but still compared to other +3 LA races they are significantly weak, there's even lower LA races I think they'd be rather weak compared to. Again just take a look at what the half-dragon gets for +3LA (way more than this race does that's for sure). Also the Fey'ri may be good for comparison they are +2 LA and get flight and some other nifty abilities. Of course then there's the drow which are also +2 LA, but I've heard people on these forums say they are too weak to try and base the level of power of a +2LA race on. I'd agree that the Drow sort of got the shaft, but this returns to the points I made earlier about gray elves, the Half-Dragon isn't worth much because he offers melee capabilities to a caster. Sure he gives awesome Strength bonuses, but if you're looking to optimize you're still going to pass him up. This race offers the best for casters, half-dragons try to offer the best of both worlds and instead just don't offer much. Where are they fey'ri found at? They sound like a good comparison to base this class off, but I can't find them anywhere. I think trying to put one up against a few arcane spellcasters of different races and see how this race does probably would be a good idea. Gray elf (because of it also having a +2 to intelligence), half-dragon (because of it's ability bonuses and LA), Fey'ri (for the sake of puting it up against another flyer), and human would probably be good ones to do this with. Thats a great idea and probably only one of the tried and true ways of getting this fully balanced out.
asurademon 03-05-07, 03:33 AM	I'd agree that the Drow sort of got the shaft, but this returns to the points I made earlier about gray elves, the Half-Dragon isn't worth much because he offers melee capabilities to a caster. Sure he gives awesome Strength bonuses, but if you're looking to optimize you're still going to pass him up. This race offers the best for casters, half-dragons try to offer the best of both worlds and instead just don't offer much. Where are they fey'ri found at? They sound like a good comparison to base this class off, but I can't find them anywhere. The half-dragon is every bit as good for a spell-caster as this race, like this race they get bonuses to both the abilities either arcane class would need a bonus to. This race doesn't offer anything specifically for arcane casters that a half-dragon doesn't, not that I can think of anyways, it's just that they don't offer abilities that would be helpful for melee characters on top of that. Fey'ri are in Races of Faerun.
Perseus_Stoned 03-05-07, 03:37 AM	The Half-Dragon template only gives a caster a boost of +2 con and +2 to a casting stat, they're meant for poor hybrid builds of melee and magic; this race is obviously centered around magic casting. Compare this to being small (harder to hit and see), flying (a huge boon for any character, particularly a caster who is already tiny), +2 Dex and +2 Casting stat. The only penalty is -2 to Con; thats it. If these guys are superior to a +3 LA, does that really seem balanced to give them a +1 LA? I don't have "Races of Fearun", can you summarize their basic boons?
enygmatic_me 03-05-07, 03:39 AM	I made a race similar to this a little while back. It might help you with balancing yours out. Flytt (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11306667#post11306667) came out at an LA +2.
asurademon 03-05-07, 03:51 AM	I don't have "Races of Fearun", can you summarize their basic boons? Well I can try, I borrowed a book with them in it from a friend a while ago so this might be off. They get something along the lines of flight (I think with either poor or average maneuverability), some sort of alter self ability, like a succubus but more limited, and I think they get +2 int, +2 dex, and -2 con. They also have darkvision, outsider type, and a list of other abilities (I think this included things like fire resistance of 5) which they can choose one from if I remember right.
riftdragon 03-05-07, 03:06 PM	I apologize for not replying i had school and i originaly desinged this race because of the fact that i found that hardly any races had a boost to int without making then a ecl of lik 8 or somthing i tried to give the +1 to history because of the fact they they live longer then almost all other long lived races and they take longer to mature as pur an elfs mature at about 150-300 or somthing and this race matures at 1000 which would easily give them a slight advantage on history score and yes this race was desinged to be a spell caster. I have givin it a name which they go by and thought of some charictoristics(sorry for spelling) Name: True Elves Description: They are adveage for tiny creaters in hight. they have no facal hair. their hair is in all ranges and colors. their wings are bat wings for the males and bird wings for the females. history: this race was the father race of the elves hence the name. the elves sold their wings and ageing abilitys for the immunity to sleep spells and their size.
Orchomenos 03-05-07, 04:22 PM	You should compare this to a Grig (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/monstersS.html#grig). They are tiny and they can fly. For a +3 LA, they have STR -6, DEX +8, CON +2, WIS +2, CHA +4, DR 5/ Cold Iron (who's carrying Cold Iron swords?), low-light vision, spell resistance, and a few spell-like abilities. So for your race, a +1 LA sounds good. Instead of +1 to Knowledge: History for each 1000 years they lived, you should give them a fixed +3, it should be more user-friendly.
riftdragon 03-05-07, 06:11 PM	Thank you for your imput on this.
riftdragon 03-05-07, 09:13 PM	I decided to creat one to shpw its abliltys and i used the tougher campane point buy system Sample Jayrich Male True Elf Sorcerer 5 Lawful Good Strength 8 (-1) Dexterity 16 (+3) Constitution 11 (+0) Intelligence 16 (+3) Wisdom 10 (+0) Charisma 18 (+4) Size: Tiny Skin: Pale Eyes: Silver Hair: Silver; Straight; Beardless Age: 42000 Total Hit Points: 10 Speed: 20 feet [quick] Fly 40 [Quick] Armor Class: 11 = 10 +3 [dexterity] -1 [vulnerable] -1 [aggressive] +2 [size] Touch AC: 11 Flat-footed: 8 Initiative modifier: +5 = +3 [dexterity] +2 [aggressive] Fortitude save: +1 = 1 [base] Reflex save: +4 = 1 [base] +3 [dexterity] Will save: +6 = 4 [base] +2 [iron will] +4 [Unnatural Will] Attack (handheld): -1 = 2 [base] -1 [strength] -2 [noncombatant] Attack (unarmed): -1 = 2 [base] -1 [strength] -2 [noncombatant] Attack (missile): +5 = 2 [base] +3 [dexterity] Grapple check: -3 = 2 [base] -1 [strength] -4 [noncombatant] Light load: Medium load: Heavy load: Lift over head: Lift off ground: Push or drag: 26 lb. or less 27-53 lb. 54-80 lb. 80 lb. 160 lb. 400 lb. Languages: Common Illithid (Mind Flayer) Spiritfolk Elven Cat familiar Feats: Combat Casting Iron Will Noncombatant [flaw] Vulnerable [flaw] Unnatural Will [hand-edit as needed] Spellcasting Prodigy [charisma] Traits: Aggressive Quick Action Points: 7 Skill Name Key Ability Skill Modifier Ability Modifier Ranks Misc. Modifier Appraise Int 3 = +3 Balance Dex* 3 = +3 Bluff Cha 12 = +4 +8 Climb Str* -1 = -1 Concentration Con 8 = +0 +8 Craft_1 Int 3 = +3 Craft_2 Int 3 = +3 Craft_3 Int 3 = +3 Diplomacy Cha 6 = +4 +2 [bluff] Disguise Cha 4 = +4 Escape Artist Dex* 3 = +3 Forgery Int 3 = +3 Gather Information Cha 4 = +4 Heal Wis 0 = +0 Hide Dex* 11 = +3 + 8 [size] Intimidate Cha 6 = +4 +2 [bluff] Jump Str* -7 = -1 -6 [speed 20] Knowledge (arcana) Int 11 = +3 +8 Listen Wis 0 = +0 Move Silently Dex* 6 = +3 +3 [cat] Perform_1 Cha 4 = +4 Perform_2 Cha 4 = +4 Perform_3 Cha 4 = +4 Perform_4 Cha 4 = +4 Perform_5 Cha 4 = +4 Ride Dex 3 = +3 Search Int 3 = +3 Sense Motive Wis 0 = +0 Spellcraft Int 12 = +3 +7 +2 [Knowledge, arcane] Spot Wis 0 = +0 Survival Wis 0 = +0 Swim Str** -1 = -1 Use Magic Device Cha 8 = +4 +4 Use Rope Dex 3 = +3 Knowledge (history) int 46 +3 +1 +42 [True Elf[ * = check penalty for wearing armor Bluff >=5 ranks gives +2 on disguise checks to act in character. Spellcraft >=5 ranks gives +2 on use magic device checks on scrolls. If the familiar is within reach, +2 on spot and listen ("alertness"). Zero-level Sorcerer spells: 6 per day First-level Sorcerer spells: 8 (6+2) per day Second-level Sorcerer spells: 5 (4+1) per day True Elf: • -2 strength • +2 dexterity • -2 constitution • +2 intelligence • -2 wisdom • +2 charisma • Dark Vision 90 • + 1 to knowledge history for every 1000 years of life Sorcerer: • Familiar / Alertness, etc. • Can know only limited numbers of spells • High charisma gains bonus spells daily Cat familiar: Str 3 Dex 15 Con 10 Int 8 Wis 12 Chr 7; Hit points: 5; Initiative +2 (dex); Speed 30 ft.; AC: 17 (+2 size, +2 dex, +3 level); 2 claws +4 melee, bite -1 melee; Claw 1d2-4, bite 1d3-4; Weapon Finesse (claw, bite); Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +5, Balance +10, Climb +5, Hide +17, Listen +4, Move Silently +9, Spot +4 Alertness feat when in arm's reach; improved evasion; share spells; empathic link; deliver touch spells; speak with master; Spells 0 Level: Caltrops: Creates caltrops 5by5 square plus 5ft square/2 lvls beyond 1st Electric Jolt: Ranged touch attack Deals 1d3 Electricity damage: Sonic Snap: Subject takes 1 sonic damage and is deafened for 1 round: Amanuensis: copies nonmagical text :Saving throw will negates(object) Stick: Glues and object weighing 5 pounds or less to another: Silent Portal: Negates sound from opening a door 1st Level: Fist of stone: +6 Str. Gain slam atk. Ray of Flame: 1D6/2lvls fire damage Ignite subject. : Benign Transportation: Swap 2 willing subjects places: Hail of stone: Stones Deal 1d4 /lvl to all creatures in area: 2nd Level: Combust: Subject Takes 1d8/lvl and might catch on fire: Baleful Transportation: 2 Subjects switch places :
Huzzah! 03-05-07, 11:49 PM	In Way of the Sword by Monte Cook, he outlines a race called Faen. They start out Small, but become Tiny and gain progressively more maneuverable flight through racial levels. I'd go with that, considering it's already tried and tested.
Mark_Plemmons 03-07-07, 11:14 AM	Racial ageing: this race reaches maturity at the age of 1000 at the age of 500000 the reach middle age and at the age of 1000000 the reach old age their adverage life expectance is infinate on account of ageing. I think the racial aging is way too long. I'd go in the reverse direction, and give them a max age of say, 6 years. Like most insects or small mammals here on Earth, their life spans are much smaller than those of a human. Also, a short lifespan may serve to balance their other abilities. The Fairiefolk article I wrote for Knights of the Dinner Table #111 (http://www.kenzerco.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_23_24&products_id=244) may help, if you have a copy of that.
enygmatic_me 03-07-07, 01:41 PM	There is one very minor problem with your sample character. The carrying capacities are off. Tiny sized characters only have half the capacity of a medium sized creature with the same strength. Aside from that it looks pretty good.
asurademon 03-07-07, 06:31 PM	I think the racial aging is way too long. I'd go in the reverse direction, and give them a max age of say, 6 years. Like most insects or small mammals here on Earth, their life spans are much smaller than those of a human. Also, a short lifespan may serve to balance their other abilities. The Fairiefolk article I wrote for Knights of the Dinner Table #111 (http://www.kenzerco.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_23_24&products_id=244) may help, if you have a copy of that. Except elves and other fairy like creatures in most lore, and even in a lot of modern fantasy generally don't suffer old age, having them age faster kind of goes against that flavor. That they age pretty slow at least is a nod towards faeries and elves in legend, and clearly the person whom is designing this race wants them to be more akin to the ageless faeries and elves, than to insects, and other small mundane creatures. Having a creature with such a short life span could be interesting, but it would diverge more from the faeries and elves of legend even more than D&D all ready has.
Mark_Plemmons 03-08-07, 08:34 AM	Having a creature with such a short life span could be interesting, but it would diverge more from the faeries and elves of legend even more than D&D all ready has. I see that as more of a positive than a negative. If every fairy and elf is based off the same stereotypes, each new race is less interesting, rather than moreso. Of course, it's only my opinion. :)
asurademon 03-08-07, 07:08 PM	I see that as more of a positive than a negative. If every fairy and elf is based off the same stereotypes, each new race is less interesting, rather than moreso. Of course, it's only my opinion. :) Fey in myth are pretty interesting in my opinion. They may be all immortal spirits, but there is a lot of diversity to them. Certainly a Puka is quite different from a banshee and a banshee is very distinctive from a satyr. I could argue that there being so many mortal races makes them all less interesting because so many are based on the concept of a mortal race, but while mortality (or immortality) is an important aspect of a being, there being several such races doesn't make them all the same, because there's more to them than just mortality. That and in D&D elves are based more on modern fantasy than directly on myth, the True Elves this thread is about still draw more from modern fantasy, but I think to have an elf that draws more direct inspiration from myth would be a nice breath of fresh air from all the mainly Tolkien inspired elves (which were themselves only very losely based on actual myth), and the elves in other RPG's which go even further away from their origins in lore. I suppose a person could carry what D&D is doing to the next step and go even further away from myth and legend with elves, and fey and it would be interesting too, but trying to keep them closer to legend would make them quite different from D&D elves as well. However these elves aren't all that different from D&D elves, beyond being tiny and longer lived anyways. Now that I think about it I guess in that they are tiny sized takes them even further away from what elves are in myth anyways (since elves aren't really small).