Tired of Angsty Good Drow? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Tired of Angsty Good Drow? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Abdiel
05-30-07, 08:06 PM In the campaigns I've played or been a part of, the lingering effect of Drizzt on 'dark elf' characters is frustrating. Good drow, rebelling against their evil heritage, always having similar traits and so on, has led me to create a race that would allow for the appearance of a dark elf, but would seperate them enough that they don't have the innate traits that create so many Drizzt clones. This is a modification of the similarly named version, so there is no level adjustment or special abilities. Great for martial characters such as Swashbucklers.

Drythari Elf

Having abandoned the name of the drow, Drythari are dark skinned elves that live in the high reaches of the mountains. These drow offshoots were taken by Eilistraee into the higher parts of the world, her last vestige of good in the dark skinned elves that were corrupted by Lolth. These elves have many things in common with those of surface elves, including a love of nature, song, dance, and the other arts. Unfortunately, these elves are also persecuted with their evil brethren for their skin, as few are willing to take the time to tell the difference. Rarely, Drythari descend from their mountain sanctuaries and explore the world, hoping to make a name for themselves and not carry the same burdens as the rest of their kin, both evil and good.

Remaining in the mountains and forests so much has somewhat dimmed the innate Darkvision of the drow, but they have also lost the sensitivity to light that underground dark elves face. Being distant from the magical inclination has also caused the Drythari the loss of their innate magical nature, and as such, Drythari tend to lean towards martial combat rather than magical, increasing their strength and also their stature, standing as tall as humans.

While the Drow have a matriarchal society, Drythari typically choose a council of their wisest and have them rule, both male and female, with neither sex having dominance in society. Their culture is mostly peaceful, as their time and isolation has given them lifetimes longer than even normal elves.

Drythari Abilities:
Alignment: Usually Chaotic Good
Str+2, Dex+2, Con-2, Wis-2,
Medium size
Average height 5"5 Male, 5’ Female
30’ movement
Immunity to magic sleep, mind affecting enchantments
+2 Racial bonus on Listen, Search, & Spot checks
Automatic Search check if passes within 5’ of a secret or concealed door
Darkvision 60’
+2 Racial bonus on Will save vs. spells & spell-like abilities
+2 Racial bonus to saves vs. Enchantments
Patron God: Eliastaree
AMGriffin
05-30-07, 08:13 PM Those ability adjustments are not only totally unfair, but make no sense.

Why did the drow suddenly become musclebound dough-heads when they left the underdark? Why are they taller then other elves? Why do they live so damn long? Why why why?

The military training excuse doesn't seem to cut it. First, let's remember they are still smaller and skinnier then humans as a whole...and dwarves have a staunch military tradition, but they're still pretty sharp.
Issabella
05-30-07, 08:16 PM actually I am just sick of drow period.
AMGriffin
05-30-07, 08:25 PM Eh yeah...in all honesty this race seems to add to the problem moreso anyway, and since these elves are "dumb" the drow fanboys won't play them.
Abdiel
05-30-07, 08:51 PM The ability adjustments were made in final by my DM based off of the recognition that for almost any race that gets a STR bonus has two minuses as a counter adjustment. It was formerly just CON and WIS. The idea was that they sacrificed the former magical habits and focused on martial developments.

And as for the age... That's kind of a throwaway as it is. Give them normal elf lifetime and you're set.

I'm tired of drow obsession, as a race. The only reason I went to the trouble to make them was because I do like the appearance aspect, and I was tired of there only being being angsty or insanely evil drow.
Zephyrus/Sonet
05-30-07, 08:54 PM Tired of Angsty Good Drow?

Not really.

Tired of people making a big deal about it?

Yeah, kinda.

Oh well.
isaac anthony
05-30-07, 10:24 PM The "angsty good guy" has been around forever, literature is FULL of these dorks. Please stop complaining about it.

I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. :rolleyes:
penchant
05-30-07, 11:24 PM The "angsty good guy" has been around forever, literature is FULL of these dorks. Please stop complaining about it.

I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. :rolleyes:

Yes, the antihero is classic throughout. While I would hope that all drow antiheros would not be required to have dual scimitars, the idea is no more overworn than the wizened old mage who knows more than he lets on or the sly scoundrel with a heart of gold. We call these archetypes and they become intrinsic to story telling since you know them without needing a detailed description. When a storyteller uses an archetype the audience knows exactly what to expect and what role the character will play without indepth characterization.

Besides... aren't there "angsty good" versions of every other race?
Warforged Goblin
05-31-07, 06:32 AM When I'm tired of angsty good drow, here's what I do: I play Eberron. Solves the problem quite nicely.
Rogue Shadows
05-31-07, 10:20 AM While I would hope that all drow antiheros would not be required to have dual scimitars, the idea is no more overworn than the wizened old mage who knows more than he lets on or the sly scoundrel with a heart of gold.

The problem then arises when you're trying to play a good drow with little to no angst in her heart...because everyone else thinks you're still trying to play Drizzt.

I think if Iliira ever met Drizzt, she'd try to beat him up.

Iliira: And that is for every time someone's called me a clone of you! [punch]
Drizzt: But...
Iliira: I don't even know how to use a scimitar!!!!
AMGriffin
05-31-07, 10:23 AM What's with the hostility towards Drizzt?

I've never had any trouble with Drow characters that were good/not evil.

In fact, I was in an RP with somebody who played an angsty Anti-Heroish drow, and he did a good job of it honestly.

The closest I ever came to playing a drow myself however was my lawful evil half-drow monk, man that was a good session.
Apupunchau
05-31-07, 10:28 AM My drow wasn't an angsty good drow he was an angsty evil drow who became a capricious good drow. I didn't use scimitars, I didn't dual wield and my name didn't even start with a "D" although I'll fess up to an apostrophe in my surname so sue me. Truth is I just stopped playing the character and I just read the dark elf trilogy for the first time. So except for the name I had no clue who the D man was.
tetebetson
05-31-07, 10:44 AM LN Dark Elf monk is probably my favorite combination full stop.
Keep order , Seek enlightenment. no angst at all.

It is a lot of fun being a super stealthy monk for gaming purposes , very tactical cos u usually have 2 less hit die than most oponents but on the whole very fun indeed.
Steely_Dan
05-31-07, 11:02 AM The only drow elves I have actually seen in play were a CN homosexual psion, LE fighter/ranger/rogue/assassin, and a CE vile chaos monk.

So, no, haven't had the unfortunate experience of being in a campaign with Dawson's Drow or what have you.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
05-31-07, 11:20 AM Yeah, the term "Drizzt clone" is around for a reason...

By this point in time, it just wouldn't feel like DnD anymore unless someone was playing one.
mtbOgre
05-31-07, 12:42 PM The ability adjustments were made in final by my DM based off of the recognition that for almost any race that gets a STR bonus has two minuses as a counter adjustment. It was formerly just CON and WIS. The idea was that they sacrificed the former magical habits and focused on martial developments.

Check page 173 of the DMG. Your suggested bonus on strength is balanced by the penalty to CON but your bonus to DEX needs to be balanced by either a penalty to STR or CON or by a penalty to TWO other scores. It's laid out clearly there.

"Not all ability Scores are equal"

I'm tired of drow obsession, as a race. The only reason I went to the trouble to make them was because I do like the appearance aspect, and I was tired of there only being being angsty or insanely evil drow.

You are tired of the drow obsession so you create an alternate drow race? How odd. Why not just take an existing elf race and change their skin color and backstory? Aren't there enough elf races to satisfy already? Why not make dark halflings?
bahamut920
05-31-07, 03:34 PM I see no reason to add another elven subrace to the mix and confuse people farther... I mean, arean't there already enough elves? For a race that lives long and doesn't have many babies, there sure are a lot of them.

My solution? Don't allow the Drizzt clone in your campaign. Just because he's a dark elf doesn't mean he has to be angsty, or chaotic good, or a ranger. Or the reverse; a CE wizard who doesn't think twice about selling the whole party out for a Klondike bar. The best, most memorable characters are the ones that buck the stereotypes.
Ziliztra
05-31-07, 03:38 PM Tired of Hysterical Anti-Drizzt fanboys?
Oh yes! :)

I don't mean to offend anyone, but the "Angsty Good Drow-Haters" have become their own stereotype :rolleyes: , and they're much more frequent today than the angsty good drows (or other elf related stuff) they complain about :surrender

About the race itself, it doesn't seem as much like reformed dark elves as degenerated dark elves. All their mental abilities are below that of real drows, having been traded away in return for brute strenght.
They're dull-witted, weak-willed, less perceptive, not as attuned to nature (or anything else), less musical and artistic, and less empathic, than their drow ancestors (and in many cases, real elves too).

They don't seem like an uncorrupted branch of drows, but more like easier targets for further corruption.

And they're mechanically unbalanced, working after the same priciple as the wood elves, which many people find overpowered already, and furthermore switching racial weapon proficiency (useless for a people of non-spellcasters anyway) for +2 to all will saves vs. spells (very useful for low will save fighter-types).

You also haven't stated any LA, weight, bonus languages or favored class.

Then there's the height. Elven males and females are traditionally of the same height (elven women are skinnier, in order to look more like super models :rolleyes: but that's it), while drow females are frequently described as both taller and heavier than the males.
It's fine to make them taller than drows, maybe even taller than other elves (though making them heavier would make more sense), but why are the males suddenly taller than the females :confused:

Don't take this the wrong way, I've really tried to be constructive, but the race just doesn't make sense as it is.

Edit: PS. The first part also goes for people who use every opportunity to complain about the so-called 'million elven sub-races' :rolleyes:
isaac anthony
05-31-07, 11:19 PM So, no, haven't had the unfortunate experience of being in a campaign with Dawson's Drow or what have you.

haha!!!

Why does everyone have to have a Drizzt phase?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Abdiel 05-30-07, 08:06 PM	In the campaigns I've played or been a part of, the lingering effect of Drizzt on 'dark elf' characters is frustrating. Good drow, rebelling against their evil heritage, always having similar traits and so on, has led me to create a race that would allow for the appearance of a dark elf, but would seperate them enough that they don't have the innate traits that create so many Drizzt clones. This is a modification of the similarly named version, so there is no level adjustment or special abilities. Great for martial characters such as Swashbucklers. Drythari Elf Having abandoned the name of the drow, Drythari are dark skinned elves that live in the high reaches of the mountains. These drow offshoots were taken by Eilistraee into the higher parts of the world, her last vestige of good in the dark skinned elves that were corrupted by Lolth. These elves have many things in common with those of surface elves, including a love of nature, song, dance, and the other arts. Unfortunately, these elves are also persecuted with their evil brethren for their skin, as few are willing to take the time to tell the difference. Rarely, Drythari descend from their mountain sanctuaries and explore the world, hoping to make a name for themselves and not carry the same burdens as the rest of their kin, both evil and good. Remaining in the mountains and forests so much has somewhat dimmed the innate Darkvision of the drow, but they have also lost the sensitivity to light that underground dark elves face. Being distant from the magical inclination has also caused the Drythari the loss of their innate magical nature, and as such, Drythari tend to lean towards martial combat rather than magical, increasing their strength and also their stature, standing as tall as humans. While the Drow have a matriarchal society, Drythari typically choose a council of their wisest and have them rule, both male and female, with neither sex having dominance in society. Their culture is mostly peaceful, as their time and isolation has given them lifetimes longer than even normal elves. Drythari Abilities: Alignment: Usually Chaotic Good Str+2, Dex+2, Con-2, Wis-2, Medium size Average height 5"5 Male, 5’ Female 30’ movement Immunity to magic sleep, mind affecting enchantments +2 Racial bonus on Listen, Search, & Spot checks Automatic Search check if passes within 5’ of a secret or concealed door Darkvision 60’ +2 Racial bonus on Will save vs. spells & spell-like abilities +2 Racial bonus to saves vs. Enchantments Patron God: Eliastaree
AMGriffin 05-30-07, 08:13 PM	Those ability adjustments are not only totally unfair, but make no sense. Why did the drow suddenly become musclebound dough-heads when they left the underdark? Why are they taller then other elves? Why do they live so damn long? Why why why? The military training excuse doesn't seem to cut it. First, let's remember they are still smaller and skinnier then humans as a whole...and dwarves have a staunch military tradition, but they're still pretty sharp.
Issabella 05-30-07, 08:16 PM	actually I am just sick of drow period.
AMGriffin 05-30-07, 08:25 PM	Eh yeah...in all honesty this race seems to add to the problem moreso anyway, and since these elves are "dumb" the drow fanboys won't play them.
Abdiel 05-30-07, 08:51 PM	The ability adjustments were made in final by my DM based off of the recognition that for almost any race that gets a STR bonus has two minuses as a counter adjustment. It was formerly just CON and WIS. The idea was that they sacrificed the former magical habits and focused on martial developments. And as for the age... That's kind of a throwaway as it is. Give them normal elf lifetime and you're set. I'm tired of drow obsession, as a race. The only reason I went to the trouble to make them was because I do like the appearance aspect, and I was tired of there only being being angsty or insanely evil drow.
Zephyrus/Sonet 05-30-07, 08:54 PM	Tired of Angsty Good Drow? Not really. Tired of people making a big deal about it? Yeah, kinda. Oh well.
isaac anthony 05-30-07, 10:24 PM	The "angsty good guy" has been around forever, literature is FULL of these dorks. Please stop complaining about it. I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. :rolleyes:
penchant 05-30-07, 11:24 PM	The "angsty good guy" has been around forever, literature is FULL of these dorks. Please stop complaining about it. I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. :rolleyes: Yes, the antihero is classic throughout. While I would hope that all drow antiheros would not be required to have dual scimitars, the idea is no more overworn than the wizened old mage who knows more than he lets on or the sly scoundrel with a heart of gold. We call these archetypes and they become intrinsic to story telling since you know them without needing a detailed description. When a storyteller uses an archetype the audience knows exactly what to expect and what role the character will play without indepth characterization. Besides... aren't there "angsty good" versions of every other race?
Warforged Goblin 05-31-07, 06:32 AM	When I'm tired of angsty good drow, here's what I do: I play Eberron. Solves the problem quite nicely.
Rogue Shadows 05-31-07, 10:20 AM	While I would hope that all drow antiheros would not be required to have dual scimitars, the idea is no more overworn than the wizened old mage who knows more than he lets on or the sly scoundrel with a heart of gold. The problem then arises when you're trying to play a good drow with little to no angst in her heart...because everyone else thinks you're still trying to play Drizzt. I think if Iliira ever met Drizzt, she'd try to beat him up. Iliira: And that is for every time someone's called me a clone of you! [punch] Drizzt: But... Iliira: I don't even know how to use a scimitar!!!!
AMGriffin 05-31-07, 10:23 AM	What's with the hostility towards Drizzt? I've never had any trouble with Drow characters that were good/not evil. In fact, I was in an RP with somebody who played an angsty Anti-Heroish drow, and he did a good job of it honestly. The closest I ever came to playing a drow myself however was my lawful evil half-drow monk, man that was a good session.
Apupunchau 05-31-07, 10:28 AM	My drow wasn't an angsty good drow he was an angsty evil drow who became a capricious good drow. I didn't use scimitars, I didn't dual wield and my name didn't even start with a "D" although I'll fess up to an apostrophe in my surname so sue me. Truth is I just stopped playing the character and I just read the dark elf trilogy for the first time. So except for the name I had no clue who the D man was.
tetebetson 05-31-07, 10:44 AM	LN Dark Elf monk is probably my favorite combination full stop. Keep order , Seek enlightenment. no angst at all. It is a lot of fun being a super stealthy monk for gaming purposes , very tactical cos u usually have 2 less hit die than most oponents but on the whole very fun indeed.
Steely_Dan 05-31-07, 11:02 AM	The only drow elves I have actually seen in play were a CN homosexual psion, LE fighter/ranger/rogue/assassin, and a CE vile chaos monk. So, no, haven't had the unfortunate experience of being in a campaign with Dawson's Drow or what have you.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 05-31-07, 11:20 AM	Yeah, the term "Drizzt clone" is around for a reason... By this point in time, it just wouldn't feel like DnD anymore unless someone was playing one.
mtbOgre 05-31-07, 12:42 PM	The ability adjustments were made in final by my DM based off of the recognition that for almost any race that gets a STR bonus has two minuses as a counter adjustment. It was formerly just CON and WIS. The idea was that they sacrificed the former magical habits and focused on martial developments. Check page 173 of the DMG. Your suggested bonus on strength is balanced by the penalty to CON but your bonus to DEX needs to be balanced by either a penalty to STR or CON or by a penalty to TWO other scores. It's laid out clearly there. "Not all ability Scores are equal" I'm tired of drow obsession, as a race. The only reason I went to the trouble to make them was because I do like the appearance aspect, and I was tired of there only being being angsty or insanely evil drow. You are tired of the drow obsession so you create an alternate drow race? How odd. Why not just take an existing elf race and change their skin color and backstory? Aren't there enough elf races to satisfy already? Why not make dark halflings?
bahamut920 05-31-07, 03:34 PM	I see no reason to add another elven subrace to the mix and confuse people farther... I mean, arean't there already enough elves? For a race that lives long and doesn't have many babies, there sure are a lot of them. My solution? Don't allow the Drizzt clone in your campaign. Just because he's a dark elf doesn't mean he has to be angsty, or chaotic good, or a ranger. Or the reverse; a CE wizard who doesn't think twice about selling the whole party out for a Klondike bar. The best, most memorable characters are the ones that buck the stereotypes.
Ziliztra 05-31-07, 03:38 PM	Tired of Hysterical Anti-Drizzt fanboys? Oh yes! :) I don't mean to offend anyone, but the "Angsty Good Drow-Haters" have become their own stereotype :rolleyes: , and they're much more frequent today than the angsty good drows (or other elf related stuff) they complain about :surrender About the race itself, it doesn't seem as much like reformed dark elves as degenerated dark elves. All their mental abilities are below that of real drows, having been traded away in return for brute strenght. They're dull-witted, weak-willed, less perceptive, not as attuned to nature (or anything else), less musical and artistic, and less empathic, than their drow ancestors (and in many cases, real elves too). They don't seem like an uncorrupted branch of drows, but more like easier targets for further corruption. And they're mechanically unbalanced, working after the same priciple as the wood elves, which many people find overpowered already, and furthermore switching racial weapon proficiency (useless for a people of non-spellcasters anyway) for +2 to all will saves vs. spells (very useful for low will save fighter-types). You also haven't stated any LA, weight, bonus languages or favored class. Then there's the height. Elven males and females are traditionally of the same height (elven women are skinnier, in order to look more like super models :rolleyes: but that's it), while drow females are frequently described as both taller and heavier than the males. It's fine to make them taller than drows, maybe even taller than other elves (though making them heavier would make more sense), but why are the males suddenly taller than the females :confused: Don't take this the wrong way, I've really tried to be constructive, but the race just doesn't make sense as it is. Edit: PS. The first part also goes for people who use every opportunity to complain about the so-called 'million elven sub-races' :rolleyes:
isaac anthony 05-31-07, 11:19 PM	So, no, haven't had the unfortunate experience of being in a campaign with Dawson's Drow or what have you. haha!!! Why does everyone have to have a Drizzt phase?