Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vrykolas2k 08-28-07, 09:53 PM	Has anyone else noticed this? Dead things, for instance, are not fecund. They reproduce by creating more dead things. Most of the others should be so rare as to not be worth statting out, since in most instances they're created due to very unique circumstances.
seolfur 08-28-07, 10:08 PM	True dat. I dont even like half elves or half orcs, because people love them so much. I made a playable orc to replace, and ruled away half elves. It's just lame. And the other day I was reading about a half beholder . . . . .
KriegsaffeNo9 08-28-07, 10:48 PM	Halfies are exotic, but of a manageable power level (usually), hence their popularity. Plus, they've got looks (of varying levels of coolness, mind), and kids love the look. Mind, I'm all for original species, but the racial miscibility of Dungeons and Dragons races is one of its many endearing factors. I remember someone here, years ago, created a template that could half-and-half any two species. That was glorious. And mad.
DM Zoc 08-29-07, 02:43 AM	I'll grant that in a world with a million elves and a million orcs, the chance of an orc/elf hybrid is statistically unlikely (especially considering the typical enmity between these races). Assume the world also has a million halflings, a million gnomes, a million dwarves, and a million humans. In a world with six million people, there might be one elf/orc hybrid. There will also be between four and six player characters. We already know that the player characters are exceptional within their world, and they tend to come from the most unlikely of situations; while the chance that any given character in that world would be an elf/orc hybrid, the chance of that one elf/orc being a player character is non-negligible. This is why we need rules for every viable hybrid race possible.
Captain_Kobold 08-29-07, 09:59 AM	Many of the more exotic Half-races are not created by breeding, but by magical experimentation or corruption. Some players want to play them because of the look, some because of the interesting concept, and some because of their ability adjusdtments and special capabilities will optimise their character even further.
JarionSilverblades 08-29-07, 03:44 PM	I'll grant that in a world with a million elves and a million orcs, the chance of an orc/elf hybrid is statistically unlikely (especially considering the typical enmity between these races). Assume the world also has a million halflings, a million gnomes, a million dwarves, and a million humans. In a world with six million people, there might be one elf/orc hybrid. There will also be between four and six player characters. We already know that the player characters are exceptional within their world, and they tend to come from the most unlikely of situations; while the chance that any given character in that world would be an elf/orc hybrid, the chance of that one elf/orc being a player character is non-negligible. This is why we need rules for every viable hybrid race possible. I don't think there is anything wrong with half-breeds. I'm one of those people who created a Orc/Elf hybrid for my world and posted it, check out Orc-elves in my home brewed races.
Vrykolas2k 08-29-07, 08:23 PM	I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the occasional, rare, somewhat logical half-breed... I'm just saying that by the time people get done posting their half-whatevers, along with those in the books, most game worlds will be reduced to nothing but mongrel-men in a couple of generations... Most of the 'breeds aren't even logical, nor possible.
Angatyr 08-29-07, 08:44 PM	I agree with you to some degree, but remember that 'mongreling' is what happens. Look at today in the real world. With mass (relatively) affordable transit, anybody is breeding with anybody. So now most people are mongrels (not that it's bad, half-anglo-half-asians are HOT). Also you need to remember that each DM's world is a separate world to all other DM's worlds. So the fact that 1 in 10 (or maybe more) parties has a rare race, it still means that that freak individual can still be one of a kind in their world. As was rightly said, people like to play extraordinary PCs. Otherwise they may as well just enjoy their own mundane life. So it is perfectly natural for the story to focus on the freaks and weirdos. They are more interesting than us 'norms'.
RealSorceror 08-29-07, 08:45 PM	Why so much hate on Half Elves and Half Orcs? Humans, on occasion, get busy with Elves and Orcs. It happens. Unless the DM decides that its biologically impossible, I really don't see a problem. Humaniod half-breeds are pretty tame stuff. Also, I'd like to point out that its pretty likely that one of those six adventurers is that single half-breed. Adventurers are, statistically, the wierdest people anyone will ever meet. As far as the stranger and more illogical cross-breeds go, I would allow them only on a case by case bases. There may be only one Half-Dwarf, but as I said above, hes pretty likely to be an adventurer.
KriegsaffeNo9 08-29-07, 11:21 PM	Adventurers are, statistically, the wierdest people anyone will ever meet. I second that emotion. Half-breeds of various stripes are much likelier to be adventurers than anything else because--hell, a half-dragon can breathe fire/ice/acid/poison gas/lightning and knock the lights out of every commoner in town with a single punch, why not put that to good use in carving up orcs and what have you?
hazhar 08-29-07, 11:33 PM	in my campaign half-elves and half-orcs aren't actually half-breeds; they're their own seperate subraces of elves/orcs, and are more usually referred to as "lesser elves" and "lesser orcs". They might look and act a bit more human than most other members of their race but they have no actual human heritage. The only actual half-breeds are those created through magical means.
Vrykolas2k 08-31-07, 11:29 AM	I second that emotion. Half-breeds of various stripes are much likelier to be adventurers than anything else because--hell, a half-dragon can breathe fire/ice/acid/poison gas/lightning and knock the lights out of every commoner in town with a single punch, why not put that to good use in carving up orcs and what have you? True, but I'm just saying their should be some sort of limit on what can be a half-breed... orcs have always been fecund, so there are quite a few half-orcs. Occasionally elves and humans interbreed, true; but how would the mating of a giant and a human actually come about (outside of a Dark Sun campaign, which has well thought-out reasons)? Just how many dragons would deign to breed with lesser creatures? Would there not be social ramifications? Ilithids use other races, especially humans, for spawning, so... those aren't actually half-breeds. A half-undead would be impossible. Minotaurs, originally, used human women to propogate, and I don't see anything to lead me to believe that there are any female minotaurs outside of Krynn, so... the minotaur bloodline also seems like some sort of new munchkinnery (I can see the utility of SOME bloodlines, but certainly not all); so do most of the half-breeds. They seem aimed more at people who just want a "build with kewl powerz" than a role-playing character...
Vrykolas2k 08-31-07, 11:31 AM	I agree with you to some degree, but remember that 'mongreling' is what happens. Look at today in the real world. With mass (relatively) affordable transit, anybody is breeding with anybody. So now most people are mongrels (not that it's bad, half-anglo-half-asians are HOT). Also you need to remember that each DM's world is a separate world to all other DM's worlds. So the fact that 1 in 10 (or maybe more) parties has a rare race, it still means that that freak individual can still be one of a kind in their world. As was rightly said, people like to play extraordinary PCs. Otherwise they may as well just enjoy their own mundane life. So it is perfectly natural for the story to focus on the freaks and weirdos. They are more interesting than us 'norms'. Actually, no; "anybody" is not breeding with "anybody". Some do, many don't, be it for aesthetic or cultural reasons.
Nightshade 08-31-07, 12:08 PM	Let's leave aside the obvious genetic fact that species cannot by definition interbreed, and the only ones that do are "cousin" species that produce infertile spawn. The clearest example being the cross breeding of the horse and donkey to produce the mule. Anybody who has ever lived on a farm or bred dogs would know the limits and practices of cross-breeding. Although of the same species you cannot cross a male Rottweiler with a female yorkshire terrier. The terrier is too small to support the baby of such a union. The terrier female would die or miscarriage long before the child could survive outside the womb. The idea that Minotaurs could breed with human females is fairly ridiculous. As is the possibility that a male giant could breed with a female human. A male human could get amorous with a female giant and produce a half-giant (if it were genetically possible), however. in my campaign half-elves and half-orcs aren't actually half-breeds; they're their own seperate subraces of elves/orcs, and are more usually referred to as "lesser elves" and "lesser orcs". They might look and act a bit more human than most other members of their race but they have no actual human heritage. The only actual half-breeds are those created through magical means. I agree with this idea and have been thinking about creating a homebrew world that either gets rid of the half-breeds or has them as their own species'. The half-breeds are a holdover from tolkien fantasy and a somewhat lame idea imo. But if you want to play one and your DM allows it, go for it. It's just a game. I would, however, wholeheartedly accept the idea that cross-bred creatures could be made through magical means. I'd limit these creatures to monsters and npc encounters, though, and wouldn't allow them as pc's. But that's just me. [EDIT: And as a corollary, I really hate all the subraces.]
Vrykolas2k 08-31-07, 12:28 PM	Let's leave aside the obvious genetic fact that species cannot by definition interbreed, and the only ones that do are "cousin" species that produce infertile spawn. The clearest example being the cross breeding of the horse and donkey to produce the mule. Anybody who has ever lived on a farm or bred dogs would know the limits and practices of cross-breeding. Although of the same species you cannot cross a male Rottweiler with a female yorkshire terrier. The terrier is too small to support the baby of such a union. The terrier female would die or miscarriage long before the child could survive outside the womb. The idea that Minotaurs could breed with human females is fairly ridiculous. As is the possibility that a male giant could breed with a female human. A male human could get amorous with a female giant and produce a half-giant (if it were genetically possible), however. I agree with this idea and have been thinking about creating a homebrew world that either gets rid of the half-breeds or has them as their own species'. The half-breeds are a holdover from tolkien fantasy and a somewhat lame idea imo. But if you want to play one and your DM allows it, go for it. It's just a game. I would, however, wholeheartedly accept the idea that cross-bred creatures could be made through magical means. I'd limit these creatures to monsters and npc encounters, though, and wouldn't allow them as pc's. But that's just me. [EDIT: And as a corollary, I really hate all the subraces.] I accept the "magical world" explanation to a point, for minotaurs and suchlike (remember, there's not that much difference from a 7'6" minotaur breeding with a 6' human female as a 6'6" tall man breeding with a 5' tall woman... it happens). As for real-world analogies, remember that some mules and jennies CAN breed, you just get a horse or donkey... they never breed true. Also, ligers and tigons DO breed true. So yes, in the real world some cross-breeds are viable. What my point is, MOST sentient creatures would NOT inter-breed. For social or aesthetic reasons, whether it's "magic world possible" or nae. Many humans don't breed with other races in the same specie in the real world, so why would non-humans breed with anything other than their own, for the most part?
Gadren 08-31-07, 01:04 PM	So now most people are mongrels (not that it's bad, half-anglo-half-asians are HOT). QFT. Hottest girl I ever met was this half-swede half-japanese girl in one of my poli-sci classes. I swear to god she looked like a half-elf. (It should be noted, however, that telling a girl you don't know that well that she looks like a half-elf is ill-advised.) Actually, no; "anybody" is not breeding with "anybody". Some do, many don't, be it for aesthetic or cultural reasons. What?? I'm sorry, but I dare you to name one cultural/racial group that has no members mating with members of any other specific group. This is the United States. I have a Jewish (race and religion) friend in New York who is married to a Muslim woman of Palestinian descent. (Lol, and they live in a condo building that is owned by the Catholic church. God bless America.) My father's line first moved to the United States from Germany in 1768. All the "mongreling" (though I dislike that term being applied to people) that has gone on since then means that I have the following genetic heritages in my blood: German, Irish, English, Cherokee, Italian, Swedish, Spanish, Russian, and Indian. (German, Irish, and Italian make up the biggest pieces, though.)
1 ton ghost 08-31-07, 01:27 PM	from an analytic POV, i guess there are pretty much 2 schools of thought on the subject Scientific: 2 species cannot reproduce/replicate if they do not have matching number of chromosomes. that is, you can't have dog-men or cat-bears, etc. from that rationale you can deduce that elves and the like have 46, just like a human, hence half-elves. orcs too i suppose. Fantasy: basically, the anything goes policy. this has caused, and i'm sure i'm not alone here, an over abundance of 1/2 races w/out any real bearing as to the why or how. this doesn't even take into account if the climate can support them. take orcs for example, if left unchecked, they would most definetly die out. they breed like rats, consume a disproportionate level of resources, and move on. typically, when foodstuffs are low, they fall to infighting (given low Int) or a natural leader arises to form a horde and they die by the thousands...and the cycle repeats itself. by basic standards though, most fantasy worlds couldn't sustain such a complex and diverse level of life. they all have to feed/hunt/kill/reproduce and w/ such insane levels of predation and 'x' amount of natural resources, w/out magic, the world would be a barren heap of rock in no time w/ only a handful of powerful undead left (no living requirements). but, like w/ all fiction, there is the willing suspension of disbelief. you'd have to seriously just on the racial tip; how many rapes (honestly, how many humans will mate w/ orcs?) does it take to get a species to breed true on its own? wouldn't most be aborted in human environs? so many variables to consider...
Tusalu 08-31-07, 01:50 PM	By the way, why half-elves but not half-dwarves?
rone_leah 08-31-07, 01:56 PM	This is the United States. I have a Jewish (race and religion) friend in New York who is married to a Muslim woman of Palestinian descent. JEW IS NOT A RACE. Maybe you were thinking hebrew, but saying jewish is a race is like saying I speak American or mexican. Sorry just a pet peeve
TheCarrionCrawler 08-31-07, 02:03 PM	...most game worlds will be reduced to nothing but mongrel-men in a couple of generations... Funny enough, they produced a race called the Mongrelfolk in Races of Destiny. :D ...orcs have always been fecund... http://www.sworddragon.com/passions/images/montoya2.jpg You keep using that word. I denna think it means what you think it means. QFT. Hottest girl I ever met was this half-swede half-japanese girl in one of my poli-sci classes. Sounds like Julia Dreyfuss of Kill Bill fame.
TheCarrionCrawler 08-31-07, 02:16 PM	JEW IS NOT A RACE. Maybe you were thinking hebrew, but saying jewish is a race is like saying I speak American or mexican. Sorry just a pet peeve Not to nitpick a pet peeve, but American English is very, very different from English English. So much so, that it might as well be a language onto itself. Similar to how WotC is spinning 4E. It's basically the same game you know and love, but it's using vastly different rules from 3.X. (Taken from, IIRC, the words of Chris Sims as to the reason why they're not producing a conversion guide. ;) ) CC
Nightshade 08-31-07, 02:24 PM	As for real-world analogies, remember that some mules and jennies CAN breed, you just get a horse or donkey... they never breed true. Also, ligers and tigons DO breed true. So yes, in the real world some cross-breeds are viable. Nitpick... actually this is not entirely true. Neither Ligers nor Tigons breed true. All the males of those unions are sterile while the females are fertile. Thus, liger and tigon females can only breed with lions and tigers. Here's a link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigons
LazyNinja 08-31-07, 02:30 PM	from an analytic POV, i guess there are pretty much 2 schools of thought on the subject Scientific: 2 species cannot reproduce/replicate if they do not have matching number of chromosomes. that is, you can't have dog-men or cat-bears, etc. from that rationale you can deduce that elves and the like have 46, just like a human, hence half-elves. orcs too i suppose. First off, I'm not really big on the whole "scientific" explanations for fantasy settings thing that seems to be rampant on these boards. That said, I'm not against it, so... Humans have 46 chromosomes. A single extra chromosome (Down's Syndrome) causes a marked reduction in intelligence (relative to the human average.) So to me, it makes perfect sense that creatures with human-like intelligence (almost any playable race) would have the same number of chromosomes. I mean, if apes and monkeys share 99% of our DNA, then creatures as similar to us as orcs, elves, halflings, minotaurs, and polymorphed dragons would have to have genomes even less divergent from our own. Why no half-dwarves? Well, there aren't any fanboi writers who dream about hot dwarf chicks. What my point is, MOST sentient creatures would NOT inter-breed. For social or aesthetic reasons, whether it's "magic world possible" or nae. Many humans don't breed with other races in the same specie in the real world, so why would non-humans breed with anything other than their own, for the most part? Umm, where do you live? Tell me, so I can never go there. I have no idea where you're getting this from. But, you know, why not apply the prejudices of a racist minority (not you) to the entirety of a fantasy populace? We don't get enough of that in real life.
Vrykolas2k 08-31-07, 04:32 PM	First off, I'm not really big on the whole "scientific" explanations for fantasy settings thing that seems to be rampant on these boards. That said, I'm not against it, so... Humans have 46 chromosomes. A single extra chromosome (Down's Syndrome) causes a marked reduction in intelligence (relative to the human average.) So to me, it makes perfect sense that creatures with human-like intelligence (almost any playable race) would have the same number of chromosomes. I mean, if apes and monkeys share 99% of our DNA, then creatures as similar to us as orcs, elves, halflings, minotaurs, and polymorphed dragons would have to have genomes even less divergent from our own. Why no half-dwarves? Well, there aren't any fanboi writers who dream about hot dwarf chicks. Umm, where do you live? Tell me, so I can never go there. I have no idea where you're getting this from. But, you know, why not apply the prejudices of a racist minority (not you) to the entirety of a fantasy populace? We don't get enough of that in real life. Ok. To reply to you and another poster... In game: Elves for instance look down on half-elves and the elves which produce them. In real-life: My sensei's family {Japanese} do not marry non-Japanese, nor do they marry outside of a certain social strata; my family is much the same way, Scots-Irish. Yes, both my sensei's family and mine are third gen Americans, except for those who married into us "right off the boat" {my Irish mother, for instance}. Both of our families can trace our ancestries several generations, same "status" in our cultures {lesser nobles}, but neither family would allow a marriage of say my sensei's daughter and me. I know people who won't date blacks, nae due to some prejudice, but due to lack of attraction... skin, features, et cetera. I know Indians {"native Americans", if you prefer} who will NOT marry outside of their tribes. So, yes, it happens. World-wide, actually; there are many people in many cultures who "frown upon" mixing, even within the same "ethnic group". Now, given these facts, why would mix-races in fantasy be as prevelent as many think they should be? There would not only be lack of physical attraction in many cases, but a social stigma as well. Not to mention, it breaks down cultures... and many races, such as dwarves and elves, would also like to preserve theirs as much as possible. At least, that's how I read the text on them.
Vrykolas2k 08-31-07, 04:33 PM	Funny enough, they produced a race called the Mongrelfolk in Races of Destiny. :D http://www.sworddragon.com/passions/images/montoya2.jpg You keep using that word. I denna think it means what you think it means. Sounds like Julia Dreyfuss of Kill Bill fame. A 3.5 edition version of the mongrel-men in the previous AD&D editions...
TheCarrionCrawler 08-31-07, 04:56 PM	A 3.5 edition version of the mongrel-men in the previous AD&D editions... You are correct. :P
Hanzo187 08-31-07, 05:11 PM	I guess I'm guilty of doing the half-breed thing, huh.
LazyNinja 08-31-07, 05:16 PM	Ok. To reply to you and another poster... In game: Elves for instance look down on half-elves and the elves which produce them. In real-life: My sensei's family {Japanese} do not marry non-Japanese, nor do they marry outside of a certain social strata; my family is much the same way, Scots-Irish. Yes, both my sensei's family and mine are third gen Americans, except for those who married into us "right off the boat" {my Irish mother, for instance}. Both of our families can trace our ancestries several generations, same "status" in our cultures {lesser nobles}, but neither family would allow a marriage of say my sensei's daughter and me. I know people who won't date blacks, nae due to some prejudice, but due to lack of attraction... skin, features, et cetera. I know Indians {"native Americans", if you prefer} who will NOT marry outside of their tribes. So, yes, it happens. World-wide, actually; there are many people in many cultures who "frown upon" mixing, even within the same "ethnic group". Now, given these facts, why would mix-races in fantasy be as prevelent as many think they should be? There would not only be lack of physical attraction in many cases, but a social stigma as well. Not to mention, it breaks down cultures... and many races, such as dwarves and elves, would also like to preserve theirs as much as possible. At least, that's how I read the text on them. And this doesn't strike you as at all strange or creepy? I'll stop short of saying that it is, but I'm sure you already know where I stand on the issue. Perhaps we're just butting into the red state/blue state divide. A pity. If you did marry your sensei's daughter, your children would look much like me... According to the 2000 U.S. Census, 2.4% of the population is multiracial. Note that this is approximately the same percentage as people who have red hair (a nod to the Scottish ancestry you and I share). But I see no one complaining that there are too many redheads in D&D.
Paradox_of_Life 08-31-07, 09:13 PM	Despite what you all may think, there are not enough half-breeds until they make a half tree, or a half-hotdog ( I wanted to go with half-sandwich, but then I remembered T_G's psion-turned-sandwich)
Paradox_of_Life 08-31-07, 09:15 PM	This is the United States. I have a Jewish (race and religion) friend in New York who is married to a Muslim woman of Palestinian descent. (Lol, and they live in a condo building that is owned by the Catholic church. God bless America.) I'm almost positive that their kid would explode. Why no half-dwarves? Well, there aren't any fanboi writers who dream about hot dwarf chicks. Well, I don't know about you, but the keyword is HOT, as in (hey baby, the way you have your beard is super-fly. Lets go back to my place and see if we cant curl it up).
TheAnthroDM 08-31-07, 09:34 PM	Has anyone else noticed this? Dead things, for instance, are not fecund. They reproduce by creating more dead things. Most of the others should be so rare as to not be worth statting out, since in most instances they're created due to very unique circumstances. Woohoo, way to be wrong. No, it definately is worth stating half-breeds, because they it makes a unique character or villian. For instance, my current campaign involves a half-vampire. The ONLY half-vampire in the entire world.(THAT'S FAR FETCHED! No, it's not, I didn't ever mention how half-vampire were created in my world.) Likewise, Half-Dragons, Half-Fiends, Half-Fey and their kin are equally rare. Half-Breeds in my campaign world as of yet.(Half-Ogre/Orc/Elf no included since they're not rare): 1 Half-Vampire Human Male 1 Half-Fey Ogre Female 1 Half-Fey Half-Elf Male 1 Half-Fey Human Presumed Genderless 1 Half-Ooze Elf(No, dont think about it.) presumably female. If you do it wrong, you have a ton of half-breeds that should be rarities becoming common, you do it right you have a powerful foe with a colorful background.
Vrykolas2k 08-31-07, 11:15 PM	And this doesn't strike you as at all strange or creepy? I'll stop short of saying that it is, but I'm sure you already know where I stand on the issue. Perhaps we're just butting into the red state/blue state divide. A pity. If you did marry your sensei's daughter, your children would look much like me... According to the 2000 U.S. Census, 2.4% of the population is multiracial. Note that this is approximately the same percentage as people who have red hair (a nod to the Scottish ancestry you and I share). But I see no one complaining that there are too many redheads in D&D. No, it strikes me as people holding on to their own values and traditions, which are no less viable than your own. Traditions are GOOD things. Yes.
Vrykolas2k 08-31-07, 11:24 PM	You are correct. :P And?
Gadren 09-01-07, 04:10 PM	Actually, no; "anybody" is not breeding with "anybody". Some do, many don't, be it for aesthetic or cultural reasons.Ok. To reply to you and another poster... In game: Elves for instance look down on half-elves and the elves which produce them. In real-life: My sensei's family {Japanese} do not marry non-Japanese, nor do they marry outside of a certain social strata; my family is much the same way, Scots-Irish. Yes, both my sensei's family and mine are third gen Americans, except for those who married into us "right off the boat" {my Irish mother, for instance}. Both of our families can trace our ancestries several generations, same "status" in our cultures {lesser nobles}, but neither family would allow a marriage of say my sensei's daughter and me. I know people who won't date blacks, nae due to some prejudice, but due to lack of attraction... skin, features, et cetera. I know Indians {"native Americans", if you prefer} who will NOT marry outside of their tribes. So, yes, it happens. World-wide, actually; there are many people in many cultures who "frown upon" mixing, even within the same "ethnic group". Now, given these facts, why would mix-races in fantasy be as prevelent as many think they should be? There would not only be lack of physical attraction in many cases, but a social stigma as well. Not to mention, it breaks down cultures... and many races, such as dwarves and elves, would also like to preserve theirs as much as possible. At least, that's how I read the text on them. I think you might not understand the difference when people use the words "anybody", "somebody", and "everybody." At any rate, I'm done with this thread.
hazhar 09-01-07, 04:38 PM	JEW IS NOT A RACE. Maybe you were thinking hebrew, but saying jewish is a race is like saying I speak American or mexican. Sorry just a pet peeve Jewish is not a race, but I think it's fair to say it is an ethnic grouping, or at least several: Ashekazic Jews, Sephardic Jews, etc. One can be of Jewish ethnicity/descent and not practice Judaism.
kirby096317 09-30-07, 03:39 AM	Being a fantasy game, players should be able to play a half race as long as they can provide a good history of their characters family tree. I have a character that my DM has already allowed me to play that has 6 halves and possibly more to be added later. The only restriction is that he must have a possible family tree.
Araciel 09-30-07, 08:51 AM	yes i noticed.
Suzu 09-30-07, 09:45 AM	Look at today in the real world. With mass (relatively) affordable transit, anybody is breeding with anybody. So now most people are mongrels (not that it's bad, half-anglo-half-asians are HOT). The many different kinds of humans in the real world are not comparable to the many different races in D&D. In D&D, there are humans, elves, dwarves, whatever, but there are also racial sub-categories within the races. Now, of course it makes sense to have lots of different kinds of humans, and 'half-breeds' of those different kinds. But half-orcs? Who the hell is going to have sex with an orc, except another orc? If you want to compare D&D humans and orcs to RL races, I'd go with ****-Sapiens and Neanderthals. And breeding between those two was very, very rare.
Arscura 09-30-07, 10:22 AM	in my campaign half-elves and half-orcs aren't actually half-breeds; they're their own seperate subraces of elves/orcs, and are more usually referred to as "lesser elves" and "lesser orcs". They might look and act a bit more human than most other members of their race but they have no actual human heritage. The only actual half-breeds are those created through magical means. I find this a very good idea, for those who do not like the idea of half-breeds. I just wanted to say that. outside of a Dark Sun campaign, which has well thought-out reasons) .... They seem aimed more at people who just want a "build with kewl powerz" than a role-playing character... Last time I read Dark-Sun (about a year ago) Half-Giants originated from magical experiments as were the muhls (half-dwarfs) I agree with you that no one ought to take a half-breed race for powers. I tried to deny that with my template I remember someone here, years ago, created a template that could half-and-half any two species. That was glorious. And mad. Well, I made something alike. Not that long ago. And I agree I am a bit mad, but still am rather proud ;) It is only for humans though, as stated in the topic it is because of the new campaign setting that I allow it for humans. Not so much for other races. I first tried to build something like that, so other could use it. However, I have dropped that plan and made it totally half-humna. Link is in my signature. from an analytic POV, i guess there are pretty much 2 schools of thought on the subject Scientific: 2 species cannot reproduce/replicate if they do not have matching number of chromosomes. that is, you can't have dog-men or cat-bears, etc. from that rationale you can deduce that elves and the like have 46, just like a human, hence half-elves. orcs too i suppose. . There was a topic about half-orc and half-elf not too long ago in which I posted, which is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=924534), where I tried to discuss this. I am a genetics from background, as such I did so. I also make the assumption of likewise chromosomes. However, is it trully important? After all it is a fantasy game we are playing and not D20 modern, in which in my taste you really have to take a good look at this. I mean there is the half-giant and half-troll template from WoTC. For as much as culture goes and so forth. Well, depends on your own culture I think. I am now outside of my culture, have a lady friend whom fell two times outside a culture, and a friend that just married totally out of the culture so to say. It may be that most people don't, but also depends on how open the cultures are. I would say that Half-Dwarven would occure less frequent than half-gnome or greater halfling or some such, for culture difference, but the question remains if you allow the cross-breed. Not the culture difference. That is something in my opinion, the player has to convince me as the DM of. That was my :twocents: Hope it helped ;)
Grod_The_Giant 09-30-07, 11:21 AM	They seem aimed more at people who just want a "build with kewl powerz" than a role-playing character... um... have you thought about the role-playing possibilities of a strange half-breed? I can think of a half dozen interesting ideas just off the top of my head. As for rarity...you only see the D&D world through the eyes of adventurers. They meet some strange people.
Kezdet 09-30-07, 08:31 PM	heres a point of view not yet stated, i got this idea from the xanth novels written by pierce anthony. he has these love springs that if drank from make you want the first creature of the opposite sex. in his first two books it goes into more detail. a spell for chameleon and the source of magic. that is just an overly "magical" way of seeing it. heres another thing you have many different minded humans out there, there may be one who just wanted to go out and see how many diff. types of babies he could possibly make. *shrug* and not me personally but you have people in real world who already "do" dogs and horses and stuff so what would stop humans in the D&D realm from doing so as well? and i dont remember who but someone stated that a minotuar couldnt make babies with a human, but you have to look that minotaur itself is a crossbreed.... and what if the magical properties of dragon could allow such a union, what if a dragon was just curious what id be like?.....hmmm....so many loopholes and loose threads. oh well see it as you will
Crebain 09-30-07, 10:02 PM	My character is half drow-half human.
ReverendBSB 09-30-07, 10:32 PM	Dark Sun had Half Giants and Muls (half dwarves). Half Giants were products of magical experimentation and were only able to breed with each other. Muls were products of breeding programs between Humans and Dwarves. They were born sterile and the mother almost always died at birth. They were almost always born into slavery as laborers and gladiators. The Half Giants of the XPH are were also created through magical experimentation, and since they can only breed with other Half Giants they are essentially a separate race, not half breeds.
drtompki 09-30-07, 11:06 PM	My line of thinking goes like this: 1) As far as the numbers go, each campaign world could reasonably be expected to have a population about 1% of the real world's population (roughly 60 Mil worldwide), especially when you consider all of the subterranean races. Therefore, even if you do not get dimension and plane jumping involved, there is more than enough individuals needed for a considerable enough hybrids to exist. Not only that, but gaming sessions do not deal with the adventures and plots of average individuals, but the special individuals. Because of this, I see no problem with a lot of half-breeds, especially if dimension and plane jumping is a fact of life in your campaign. 2) I technically consider all humanoid races as related, which is how they can interbreed so easily. 3) Giants (which I consider as long descendants of titans, an outsider race), outsiders, dragons, vampires, etc. are all species that have a lot of magic in their blood. If they mated with a species that has a different number of chromosomes in their genetic make-up, the magic involved would make copies of any missing chromosomes (this only needs to be done in one cell, after which DNA replication will do the rest).
taradusis 09-30-07, 11:49 PM	Yes,there are too many halfbreeds and too many purebreeds considering how warlike most intelligent species are.Orc and Elven gods hate each other and their creations have mutually incompatable DNA,it is impossible to have a being with elvish and orcish DNA,their gods made that impossible.The problem with most players is that they want to create a party that is a travelling freakshow and if their Pc dies they want to recreate the same 1 in a million PC over again,if you say yes to a travelling freakshow and make the party not suffer any consequences you are detracting from the consistancy of the world.At some point you may want to draw the line and by that time you will be facing some diehard expectations from your PCs,I had a player scream with rage and throw an actual temper tantrum when I wouldn't let him play a non-human of his choice in a game based on fuedal japan.But this is just my opinion based on my decades of experiance with the game,do as you wish,suffer the results.
CelticMutt 09-30-07, 11:50 PM	Has anyone else noticed this? Dead things, for instance, are not fecund. They reproduce by creating more dead things. Most of the others should be so rare as to not be worth statting out, since in most instances they're created due to very unique circumstances. Legends of Dhampyrs, or Half-Vampires have existed for several centuries - at least the medieval era if not earlier. In legend they can be created by being born from mothers that a vamp bit, but more often came from sex. So apparently yes, some dead things are fecund. :P
BlackRequiem 10-01-07, 01:25 AM	My gripe is that they, and their players, have no real substance. When someone makes a half-race character they are there simply to be 'different' and play up the outsider appeal that kids love so much ( half-dragon-elf-vampire-godling-demon? Way to stack those templates!. I all ready have enough gripes with core races as it is so half-things just give me a headache, but I keep my complaints to a minimum inside our own games simply because it's standard and 'classic' nowadays. Anyways. Whatever happened to the plain old Human Fighter? :|