Transformed .. Do I have to be lame? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Transformed .. Do I have to be lame? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dangerous_Dan
06-06-07, 07:48 PM I am playing a wizard in my current campaign. I suppose I was annoying my DM a little with magic spell ingenuity (some might say cheese). Anyhow We are 14th level and were doing some traveling when a bug bubbly giant jelly attacked us. The Cleric was hit by a gooey pseudopod and hasn't been seen since (though we are told he's not dead, yet) and I was hit next round while fleeing. I'm now a Bralani, which you would think would be awesome and all, but I'm not quite one.

Now I have an adjusted level of 22 and I'll never get 8th level spells. and I don't get the cool Bralani powers. My question is (and I know that the DM has final say) is it common to apply level adjustment and HD to someone who is just pertinently polymorphed? And since nobody is nearly as tough as the big jelly was they can't reverse the process.

What would you suggest? I would really like to get 8th level spells some day, but being a Bralani is kinda cool. (not as cool as 8th and 9th level spells though.)
Kalarus
06-06-07, 08:40 PM Let's start at the easy part that really should be obvious:
The DM should follow the same rules that players are required to follow.

If he creates a creature that has the spell-like ability to polymorph others, that means that if you are hit you follow all the rules for polymorph (or perhaps baneful polymorph, not sure which would be more appropriate... given that you're turned into a freakin' Bralani, it hardly sounds baneful).

As far as I know, polymorph does not change your hit die, nor does it give you the level adjustments of the new race. You are "temporarily" (even though that may in practice be permanent) physically altered to resemble that race, that does not in fact turn you into one of that race.

The LA and such of a race is determined by its stats and abilities, that means that if you were turned into a race by some odd polymorph ability and you are apparently forced to suffer the LA adjustment, you should gain all powers and abilities of that race since you are apparently not merely polymorphed, you *are* that race.

As for playing a Bralani, it sounds cool enough. However, if this is not what you want to do with your character, it is exceedingly disrespectful of the DM to force you into playing something you don't want to play.

Reading your story I get the impression that you and your DM have a problem of an entirely different order that is not covered by game rules. It sounds like you (and possibly the Cleric) used builds that were legitimate within the game rules and thus implicitly approved by the DM, but the DM found out in actual gameplay the builds are imbalanced, so he tossed in this "solution" to make it appear like he's not nerfing your character. Effectively he alters your character to a race you did not ask to play, and blocks character advancement.

If this is the case, I'd strongly suggest you (and possibly the Cleric if it's appropriate) sit down with your DM and discuss what's going on here, since apparently you seem to have a problem with this course of events and in such a case I believe you have cause to inform wether or not this change is permanent or not. If it turns out your DM has indeed problems with the "cheese" you have been using, your group needs to work out a solution together. If the group wants to play at this level of optimization, this may mean more work for the DM to create challenging encounters without doing things that are outright odd (like Bralani-polymorphing abbarations). Keep in mind your DM has as much a say in this as anything, and that if all the players want to play at this level of optimization, the person in question may not want to be DM for that kind of group.
Similarly, keep in mind that if you conclude that the things you are using are in fact too cheesy and probably should not be done, you may be required to nerf your character in order for the entire group to have fun. Including your DM.

Bottom line is that D&D is about having fun with your entire group, of which the DM is one. If you create a build that obviously annoys the DM, sit down and talk about it *before* it escalates. Work together, not against each other.
Archangel_Tyrael
06-06-07, 09:21 PM Step 1: Dispel Magic
Step 2: Problem over

Unless your DM isn't following the rules or is houseruling this whole situation (very likely).
Deekin
06-06-07, 09:23 PM It's A real monster from the MMII, a TERATOMORPH.

It has A fun little ability called Entropic Touch. It's Hits do random things.

You got hit with it's Transformation part

Transformation. The opponent undergoes a transformation
as though affected by a polymorph any object spell (caster
level 20th). This painful process deals 5d20 points of subdual
damage. The DM can randomly determine the
subject’s new form or choose a particular form.

Now lets go check polymorph any object.

Polymorph Any Object
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Trickery 8
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (object); see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its enchanted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines.

Changed Subject Is: Increase to Duration Factor1

1. Add all that apply. Look up the total on the next table.

Same kingdom (animal, vegetable, mineral) +5
Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.) +2
Same size +2
Related (twig is to tree, wolf fur is to wolf, etc.) +2
Same or lower Intelligence +2
Duration Factor Duration Example
0 20 minutes Pebble to human
2 1 hour Marionette to human
4 3 hours Human to marionette
5 12 hours Lizard to manticore
6 2 days Sheep to wool coat
7 1 week Shrew to manticore
9+ Permanent Manticore to shrew

Unlike polymorph, polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form. If the original form didn’t have a Wisdom or Charisma score, it gains those scores as appropriate for the new form.

Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force.

A nonmagical object cannot be made into a magic item with this spell. Magic items aren’t affected by this spell.

This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures.

This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud.

So it looks like your stuck a Bralani. With 13 int. (OUCH)

But it says it function like Polymorph- so lets check polymorph

Polymorph
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Willing living creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.

Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further). If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead.

The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities.

Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.

That Says it functioned like alter self.

Alter Self
Transmutation
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level (D)

You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.

You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).

You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.

If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.

You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.

You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.

You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype.

You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.

When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.

I don't See anything about assuming a Level Adjustment or HD. You should not have it, as you don't have any of the Kool powers to go with it, and nothing in the spells say anything about an LA.

Also, you should have trashed that Slime. It's only CR 16....

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dangerous_Dan 06-06-07, 07:48 PM	I am playing a wizard in my current campaign. I suppose I was annoying my DM a little with magic spell ingenuity (some might say cheese). Anyhow We are 14th level and were doing some traveling when a bug bubbly giant jelly attacked us. The Cleric was hit by a gooey pseudopod and hasn't been seen since (though we are told he's not dead, yet) and I was hit next round while fleeing. I'm now a Bralani, which you would think would be awesome and all, but I'm not quite one. Now I have an adjusted level of 22 and I'll never get 8th level spells. and I don't get the cool Bralani powers. My question is (and I know that the DM has final say) is it common to apply level adjustment and HD to someone who is just pertinently polymorphed? And since nobody is nearly as tough as the big jelly was they can't reverse the process. What would you suggest? I would really like to get 8th level spells some day, but being a Bralani is kinda cool. (not as cool as 8th and 9th level spells though.)
Kalarus 06-06-07, 08:40 PM	Let's start at the easy part that really should be obvious: The DM should follow the same rules that players are required to follow. If he creates a creature that has the spell-like ability to polymorph others, that means that if you are hit you follow all the rules for polymorph (or perhaps baneful polymorph, not sure which would be more appropriate... given that you're turned into a freakin' Bralani, it hardly sounds baneful). As far as I know, polymorph does not change your hit die, nor does it give you the level adjustments of the new race. You are "temporarily" (even though that may in practice be permanent) physically altered to resemble that race, that does not in fact turn you into one of that race. The LA and such of a race is determined by its stats and abilities, that means that if you were turned into a race by some odd polymorph ability and you are apparently forced to suffer the LA adjustment, you should gain all powers and abilities of that race since you are apparently not merely polymorphed, you are that race. As for playing a Bralani, it sounds cool enough. However, if this is not what you want to do with your character, it is exceedingly disrespectful of the DM to force you into playing something you don't want to play. Reading your story I get the impression that you and your DM have a problem of an entirely different order that is not covered by game rules. It sounds like you (and possibly the Cleric) used builds that were legitimate within the game rules and thus implicitly approved by the DM, but the DM found out in actual gameplay the builds are imbalanced, so he tossed in this "solution" to make it appear like he's not nerfing your character. Effectively he alters your character to a race you did not ask to play, and blocks character advancement. If this is the case, I'd strongly suggest you (and possibly the Cleric if it's appropriate) sit down with your DM and discuss what's going on here, since apparently you seem to have a problem with this course of events and in such a case I believe you have cause to inform wether or not this change is permanent or not. If it turns out your DM has indeed problems with the "cheese" you have been using, your group needs to work out a solution together. If the group wants to play at this level of optimization, this may mean more work for the DM to create challenging encounters without doing things that are outright odd (like Bralani-polymorphing abbarations). Keep in mind your DM has as much a say in this as anything, and that if all the players want to play at this level of optimization, the person in question may not want to be DM for that kind of group. Similarly, keep in mind that if you conclude that the things you are using are in fact too cheesy and probably should not be done, you may be required to nerf your character in order for the entire group to have fun. Including your DM. Bottom line is that D&D is about having fun with your entire group, of which the DM is one. If you create a build that obviously annoys the DM, sit down and talk about it before it escalates. Work together, not against each other.
Archangel_Tyrael 06-06-07, 09:21 PM	Step 1: Dispel Magic Step 2: Problem over Unless your DM isn't following the rules or is houseruling this whole situation (very likely).
Deekin 06-06-07, 09:23 PM	It's A real monster from the MMII, a TERATOMORPH. It has A fun little ability called Entropic Touch. It's Hits do random things. You got hit with it's Transformation part Transformation. The opponent undergoes a transformation as though affected by a polymorph any object spell (caster level 20th). This painful process deals 5d20 points of subdual damage. The DM can randomly determine the subject’s new form or choose a particular form. Now lets go check polymorph any object. Polymorph Any Object Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Trickery 8 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level Duration: See text Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (object); see text Spell Resistance: Yes (object) This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its enchanted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines. Changed Subject Is: Increase to Duration Factor1 1. Add all that apply. Look up the total on the next table. Same kingdom (animal, vegetable, mineral) +5 Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.) +2 Same size +2 Related (twig is to tree, wolf fur is to wolf, etc.) +2 Same or lower Intelligence +2 Duration Factor Duration Example 0 20 minutes Pebble to human 2 1 hour Marionette to human 4 3 hours Human to marionette 5 12 hours Lizard to manticore 6 2 days Sheep to wool coat 7 1 week Shrew to manticore 9+ Permanent Manticore to shrew Unlike polymorph, polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form. If the original form didn’t have a Wisdom or Charisma score, it gains those scores as appropriate for the new form. Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force. A nonmagical object cannot be made into a magic item with this spell. Magic items aren’t affected by this spell. This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures. This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud. So it looks like your stuck a Bralani. With 13 int. (OUCH) But it says it function like Polymorph- so lets check polymorph Polymorph Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Willing living creature touched Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form. Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further). If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead. The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities. Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action. That Says it functioned like alter self. Alter Self Transmutation Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 10 min./level (D) You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself. You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack). You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels. If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components. You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal. You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth. You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype. You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check. When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form. I don't See anything about assuming a Level Adjustment or HD. You should not have it, as you don't have any of the Kool powers to go with it, and nothing in the spells say anything about an LA. Also, you should have trashed that Slime. It's only CR 16....