Two +0s: Hengeyokai and PHB races [Archive] - Wizards Community

Two +0s: Hengeyokai and PHB races [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
teshen
04-11-07, 12:27 PM I just suggested this over on another forum... and I thought I should probably get some more input.

If you treat a race as a template, like the hengeyokai (3.5 version), and add it to a +0 adjusted race, like an elf or a human, would +1 be a reasonable adjustment?
DarkRhystar
04-11-07, 12:31 PM No.
RobbyPants
04-11-07, 12:32 PM Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but you're talking about applying the benifits of an LA +0 race as a template, and increasing the LA to +1 to account for getting two races benifits?

If I understood you there, I think that's a decent start. I think two LA +0 race's abilities would be a little weak for a LA +1, but certainly too powerful for a LA +0. Just be ready to make special rulings on odd combiniations of racial abilities.

If you're talking about applying a LA +1 race's abilities as a LA +1 template to a LA +0 base creature, then no, this is very overpowered. Remember that the base creature's abilities don't get wiped away, so effectively, you get two sets of racial abilities for no LA cost increase. Picture changing Aasimar (LA +1) to a template and adding it to a human (LA +0) for a total of LA +1. You would have all the abilities of an aasimar along with a bonus feat, extra skills, and favored class: any with no LA increase.

So, hopefully one of those two answers helped you. ;)
teshen
04-11-07, 02:01 PM Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but you're talking about applying the benifits of an LA +0 race as a template, and increasing the LA to +1 to account for getting two races benifits?
Yes. +0 race and +0 race = +1 race

If I understood you there, I think that's a decent start. I think two LA +0 race's abilities would be a little weak for a LA +1, but certainly too powerful for a LA +0. Just be ready to make special rulings on odd combiniations of racial abilities.
I agree. In this particular case, I was suggesting to someone else that they use the Hengeyokai race out of Oriental Adventures (also using the 3.5 update) as a template and apply it to an elf.

In this case, mostly to get the feel of natural lycanthropy without the headache that accompanies lycanthrops.

If you're talking about applying a LA +1 race's abilities as a LA +1 template to a LA +0 base creature, then no, this is very overpowered. Remember that the base creature's abilities don't get wiped away, so effectively, you get two sets of racial abilities for no LA cost increase. Picture changing Aasimar (LA +1) to a template and adding it to a human (LA +0) for a total of LA +1. You would have all the abilities of an aasimar along with a bonus feat, extra skills, and favored class: any with no LA increase.
And there I am in total agreement with you. Such a combination should be around a +2. In that case, it would be +0 race and +1 race = +2 race.

Level adjustment is screwy in some cases, but this idea is like treating the +0 races as +1/2 races... and that adds up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
teshen 04-11-07, 12:27 PM	I just suggested this over on another forum... and I thought I should probably get some more input. If you treat a race as a template, like the hengeyokai (3.5 version), and add it to a +0 adjusted race, like an elf or a human, would +1 be a reasonable adjustment?
DarkRhystar 04-11-07, 12:31 PM	No.
RobbyPants 04-11-07, 12:32 PM	Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but you're talking about applying the benifits of an LA +0 race as a template, and increasing the LA to +1 to account for getting two races benifits? If I understood you there, I think that's a decent start. I think two LA +0 race's abilities would be a little weak for a LA +1, but certainly too powerful for a LA +0. Just be ready to make special rulings on odd combiniations of racial abilities. If you're talking about applying a LA +1 race's abilities as a LA +1 template to a LA +0 base creature, then no, this is very overpowered. Remember that the base creature's abilities don't get wiped away, so effectively, you get two sets of racial abilities for no LA cost increase. Picture changing Aasimar (LA +1) to a template and adding it to a human (LA +0) for a total of LA +1. You would have all the abilities of an aasimar along with a bonus feat, extra skills, and favored class: any with no LA increase. So, hopefully one of those two answers helped you. ;)
teshen 04-11-07, 02:01 PM	Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but you're talking about applying the benifits of an LA +0 race as a template, and increasing the LA to +1 to account for getting two races benifits? Yes. +0 race and +0 race = +1 race If I understood you there, I think that's a decent start. I think two LA +0 race's abilities would be a little weak for a LA +1, but certainly too powerful for a LA +0. Just be ready to make special rulings on odd combiniations of racial abilities. I agree. In this particular case, I was suggesting to someone else that they use the Hengeyokai race out of Oriental Adventures (also using the 3.5 update) as a template and apply it to an elf. In this case, mostly to get the feel of natural lycanthropy without the headache that accompanies lycanthrops. If you're talking about applying a LA +1 race's abilities as a LA +1 template to a LA +0 base creature, then no, this is very overpowered. Remember that the base creature's abilities don't get wiped away, so effectively, you get two sets of racial abilities for no LA cost increase. Picture changing Aasimar (LA +1) to a template and adding it to a human (LA +0) for a total of LA +1. You would have all the abilities of an aasimar along with a bonus feat, extra skills, and favored class: any with no LA increase. And there I am in total agreement with you. Such a combination should be around a +2. In that case, it would be +0 race and +1 race = +2 race. Level adjustment is screwy in some cases, but this idea is like treating the +0 races as +1/2 races... and that adds up.