Post/Author/DateTime	Post
isreal 11-04-07, 09:05 PM	Formless Background: No one knows where the formless came from they just came. Everyone is afraid they may just take over the world. Apperance: The formless appear as a mass of brown slime. Racial Characteristics Outsider (shapechanger subtype) -6 Str, -6 Dex, -6 Con, +2 Int base speed 5ft special abilites: Shapechange (Su): The formless may Shapechange at will. Caster lvl is 10 plus character lvls. Wish (Sp): The Formless may cast wish at will. Keep Power (Ex): The Formless has to ability to keep his extraordinary, spell-like, and supernatural abilities when he changes form. Fast Healing 5 (Ex): The Formless gains 5 hp per round as long as he has 1 hp. Favored class: any Languages: any Bonus Languages: any LA +10
Dionon 11-04-07, 09:22 PM	You sure that's a +10 LA?
Finfreeze 11-04-07, 09:34 PM	What's the caster level on shapechange?
zeratulcraft 11-04-07, 09:35 PM	Why the -5 in their stats? Even or not at all, kthx.
isreal 11-04-07, 10:10 PM	There fixed. It could well be a higher LA it's really a joke.
Xiuhcoatl 11-04-07, 10:24 PM	Considering that Savage Species rates a Wish spell-like ability as an LA +3 or LA +4... Shapechange at will isn't LA +10.
Bahumut 11-05-07, 01:43 AM	Considering that Savage Species rates a Wish spell-like ability as an LA +3 or LA +4... Shapechange at will isn't LA +10. i'd just like to say, i'd play this. as i mentioned before in another thread, shapechange is all you need to pull off punpun-esque shennanigans. well, and a familiar. also, the reason a wish spell-like ability is only +3 or +4, is because you still have to pay the xp cost for casting the wish. if you DIDN'T, then it would be a +10 LA, possibly higher.
Rune_Munch 11-05-07, 02:12 AM	A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component Just thought it bared mentioning.
Thief_of_Hope 11-05-07, 03:02 AM	I like it. It's simple and fun. And yeah, I think +10 LA seems good, what with being able to UTTERLY DOMINATE THE REST OF THE PARTY. "Hmm, I think I'll turn into...oh, hell, let's do a colossal red dragon this time." Shapechange keeps the extraordinary and supernatural abilities of whatever form you take, has no limits on size, and is only limited by your caster level. Plus you get a full heal everytime you change. Yummy! The balancing factor, of course, is that your enormously low HD 'cuz of the enormously high LA might make you a one-shot kill. Oh, and if someone foils your ability to change, you're pretty much screwed. But like I said, I think it's such a ridiculously simple and fun concept that I'm simply going to have to use it some time! Thank you much, isreal!
Xiuhcoatl 11-05-07, 07:45 AM	Yeah, uh, officially, Shapechange at will is +3 at best. Keep in mind you are still limited by hit dice and/or caster level. A level one character with Shapechange, at ECL 10, would die in a single attack regardless of what form he is in: he's limited to 1-HD forms. Edit: Since its caster level is 10+level, you'd still be limited to fairly average monsters--and with only 1 HD and an average maximum of ~15 hit points ... you're still dead within one encounter at ECL 10. "Hmm, I think I'll turn into...oh, hell, let's do a colossal red dragon this time." Except that, you know, you can't. Not only do you not have the caster levels for that, it also surpasses the ability of Shapechange.
Nadaka 11-05-07, 12:02 PM	How is wish at will as a spell like ability worth only a +3 LA? Wish at will as a spell like ability means you get +5 to all ability scores unlimited access to 8th level and lower spells.
isreal 11-05-07, 01:46 PM	Now I see how broken my joke creation is. If you gave it this ability at LA +3 it would dominate the other characters. At higher levels It could become some very strong mosters and recharge its HP by changing in the middle of battle. If you give at LA +10 as I have It is far to weak Hp wise to stand up to any foe that can hit it. My only option is to make so much more broken it fixes it. LOL
Thief_of_Hope 11-06-07, 02:17 AM	Except that, you know, you can't. Not only do you not have the caster levels for that, it also surpasses the ability of Shapechange. You caught me. Huge red dragon is much more reasonable. Keep in mind you are still limited by hit dice and/or caster level. A level one character with Shapechange, at ECL 10, would die in a single attack regardless of what form he is in: he's limited to 1-HD forms. Edit: Since its caster level is 10+level, you'd still be limited to fairly average monsters--and with only 1 HD and an average maximum of ~15 hit points ... you're still dead within one encounter at ECL 10. But why are we only using 1st level examples? This seems to only be a viable option for high-level deals anyway. But let's say it's an 11 level party, and I'm the formless level one barbarian (chosen because it gives the most hit die, and because I don't need spellcasting levels to boost my shapechangability). Troll. Regen = goooooood. Yeah, uh, officially, Shapechange at will is +3 at best. Play it however you choose, but there isn't any way in the world I would allow a fourth level character to have shapechange-at-will. "What, what's that? The wizard only gets Alter Self? The druid can't even wild shape yet? Boy, you guys, you don't know what you're missing! I can be a gibbering mouther! Swallowing people, draining their con, confusing them, spitting acid....yep, good times. What do you mean it seems unfair to be able to turn into a monster with higher CR than the party level?" Oh, wait, no, that's all wrong, I may have to get close to an enemy with a weapon that could take out my 1HD. Maybe I'll go Rast, so I can have a 60 ft. fly speed and a paralyzing gaze. Doubtful that the opponents will be ready for a flyer, since not even wizards can cast Fly at fourth level. Of course, there's not always a need to be in a battle if you can't handle it. Being able to assume so many forms of ANY SIZE means that infiltration is a breeze. Too bad the party rogue can't get in there, but maybe a Diminuitive-size Bat or Toad can get in. I hear Bats can fly and have a +14 on Hide, but Toads get a whopping +21 on hide. No 4th level rogue I've ever heard of can match that, so maybe that'll be a good choice. Those are, of course, only from the original MM. I hear there are fine-size creatures with achievable HD in other books, which could probably let you just squeeze through the door. Plus, flying opens up a lot of options in the way of going places. I'd sign up for that in a heartbeat. More ways to go where the rest of the party can't sounds fun to me. Plus, the guy playing the changeling rogue might run off and cry. Nevertheless, I feel like sticking to the +10 LA, because it's funny, and this race was meant for laughs. Plus, the group might not like me as much if I make the changeling rogue cry.
Xiuhcoatl 11-06-07, 08:11 AM	Play it however you choose, but there isn't any way in the world I would allow a fourth level character to have shapechange-at-will. Change it to CL = HD, and it becomes balanced at LA +3.