(un)Whoally Hell, Assassin Devil? [Archive] - Wizards Community

(un)Whoally Hell, Assassin Devil? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Flay Crimsonwind
04-07-07, 04:30 PM Wait wait wait, this thing has a level adjustment of +6. Not a CR or nuthin, LA. Please, tell me this can be played, and if so, are those stats supposed to be set or what? This seems nuts to me, but it almost looks like they intended to allow for it to be playable. Can anyone look at this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=5) and confirm or deny this (I'm actually a lil worried if it CAN be played.......)...... Dunno if it's a good thing to be in a party with a Dogai.... still, would be one shmexy race, no?
Khadmus
04-07-07, 06:00 PM ECL 20. Meh. 14 HD +6 LA. Upon re-review of the stat block, the summon baatezu ability is misplaced. It would be...what did you say? "Shmexy"? Use the normal monster stats bonuses rules (In this case, +8 Str, +18 Dex, +6 Con, +6 Int, +12 Wis, +6 Cha)
Flay Crimsonwind
04-07-07, 06:22 PM Hem, ECL 20, leveling'd be a pain. So maybe...... maybe a racial template? A class, perhaps? I'm gonna have to experiment with this. Nice race, indeed, but pretty tough.....
Magetastic
04-07-07, 07:43 PM If you want to play one without totally hosing your character options i'd suggest the following steps.

1). play a tiefling or aasimar (preferably aasimar) with 16 or more intelligence.
2). get a wizard to polymorph any object on you into it (normally polymorph and polymorph any object doesn't allow you to become an outsider, but as a tiefling or aasimar you are an outsider so...)
This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin.
emphasis mine.

so that's
+5 same kingdom +2 same size +2 same or lower int = permanent duration.

3). now you have +8 natural armor, sneak attack +5d6, 28 dex, 17 con, 19 str and 16 int
Hurray for PMaO!!!

But personally i think they are set up like that so they can be a potential servant to high level Thaumaturgists.
PhaedrusXY
04-07-07, 07:57 PM Why in the hell didn't they give it Weapon Finesse and a Short Sword, instead of Weapon Focus (Longsword)? That would have increased its attack bonus by +4, at the cost of 1 point of damage on average... Or even better... a rapier, since it has Improved Critical.
Flay Crimsonwind
04-08-07, 04:04 AM So you suggest turning yourself into one. Oh lordy yes. So as long as You can become an outsider, you gain this ability? And a Wiz can be hired to do it for you? So Monks/Acolyte of the Skin/Elemental Savants (to themselves, maybe?)/a-whole-lot-of-things-that-make-you-an-outsider are free for this? Of course, you'd need it at higher levels, cause wouldn't you still gain the 14 HD? or no, do they not appear?
Khadmus
04-08-07, 07:14 AM I thought "same or lower intelligence" referred to the object being polymorphed into...otherwise it sounds retarded (pardon me for resorting to such a pathetic word...I can't think today)
runestar
04-08-07, 08:15 AM Lets see what you get for ECl20...

Its 14 outsider HD grant +14bab, +9 to all saves and (8+int mod)*17 skill points.

Compare this to a rogue10/fighter4?(crappier bab/saves)

In addition, it gets +8str, +18str, +6con, +6int, +12wis, +6cha, +8NA, +5d6 sneak attack, dr10/good, dim door at will, shadow step/form, evasion, uncanny dodge and devil racial immunities.

The stat bonuses and devil resistances/immunities are worth a hefty LA alone, IMO. Ask yourself if you are willing to pay LA+6 for all the benefits as listed above. You will have your answer.

You could PAO into one, but remember that your stats will be inferior to a PC assassin devil(since its average stats replace your existing ones, while a PC assassin devil adds those modifiers on top of the base stats he generates).

Looks like it could make for a viable rogue-type PC. Its stat bonuses help make up for all those missing skill ranks(it can actually be better than a typical rogue). You gain some, and you lose some, so it does not necessarily seem weaker than a lv20 multiclass rogue/fighter. Looks like it may be worth a spot in one's party.:)
Magetastic
04-08-07, 10:34 AM Of course, you'd need it at higher levels, cause wouldn't you still gain the 14 HD? or no, do they not appear?Not really the HD limit is determined by the caster not the benefactor so based on the spell services (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) a PMaO from a 15th level wizard costs only 1200 gold. Well worth it i say. SOooo not much of a level restriction beyond your abilty to generate 1200 gold and find 15th level wizards.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Flay Crimsonwind 04-07-07, 04:30 PM	Wait wait wait, this thing has a level adjustment of +6. Not a CR or nuthin, LA. Please, tell me this can be played, and if so, are those stats supposed to be set or what? This seems nuts to me, but it almost looks like they intended to allow for it to be playable. Can anyone look at this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061207a&page=5) and confirm or deny this (I'm actually a lil worried if it CAN be played.......)...... Dunno if it's a good thing to be in a party with a Dogai.... still, would be one shmexy race, no?
Khadmus 04-07-07, 06:00 PM	ECL 20. Meh. 14 HD +6 LA. Upon re-review of the stat block, the summon baatezu ability is misplaced. It would be...what did you say? "Shmexy"? Use the normal monster stats bonuses rules (In this case, +8 Str, +18 Dex, +6 Con, +6 Int, +12 Wis, +6 Cha)
Flay Crimsonwind 04-07-07, 06:22 PM	Hem, ECL 20, leveling'd be a pain. So maybe...... maybe a racial template? A class, perhaps? I'm gonna have to experiment with this. Nice race, indeed, but pretty tough.....
Magetastic 04-07-07, 07:43 PM	If you want to play one without totally hosing your character options i'd suggest the following steps. 1). play a tiefling or aasimar (preferably aasimar) with 16 or more intelligence. 2). get a wizard to polymorph any object on you into it (normally polymorph and polymorph any object doesn't allow you to become an outsider, but as a tiefling or aasimar you are an outsider so...) This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. emphasis mine. so that's +5 same kingdom +2 same size +2 same or lower int = permanent duration. 3). now you have +8 natural armor, sneak attack +5d6, 28 dex, 17 con, 19 str and 16 int Hurray for PMaO!!! But personally i think they are set up like that so they can be a potential servant to high level Thaumaturgists.
PhaedrusXY 04-07-07, 07:57 PM	Why in the hell didn't they give it Weapon Finesse and a Short Sword, instead of Weapon Focus (Longsword)? That would have increased its attack bonus by +4, at the cost of 1 point of damage on average... Or even better... a rapier, since it has Improved Critical.
Flay Crimsonwind 04-08-07, 04:04 AM	So you suggest turning yourself into one. Oh lordy yes. So as long as You can become an outsider, you gain this ability? And a Wiz can be hired to do it for you? So Monks/Acolyte of the Skin/Elemental Savants (to themselves, maybe?)/a-whole-lot-of-things-that-make-you-an-outsider are free for this? Of course, you'd need it at higher levels, cause wouldn't you still gain the 14 HD? or no, do they not appear?
Khadmus 04-08-07, 07:14 AM	I thought "same or lower intelligence" referred to the object being polymorphed into...otherwise it sounds retarded (pardon me for resorting to such a pathetic word...I can't think today)
runestar 04-08-07, 08:15 AM	Lets see what you get for ECl20... Its 14 outsider HD grant +14bab, +9 to all saves and (8+int mod)*17 skill points. Compare this to a rogue10/fighter4?(crappier bab/saves) In addition, it gets +8str, +18str, +6con, +6int, +12wis, +6cha, +8NA, +5d6 sneak attack, dr10/good, dim door at will, shadow step/form, evasion, uncanny dodge and devil racial immunities. The stat bonuses and devil resistances/immunities are worth a hefty LA alone, IMO. Ask yourself if you are willing to pay LA+6 for all the benefits as listed above. You will have your answer. You could PAO into one, but remember that your stats will be inferior to a PC assassin devil(since its average stats replace your existing ones, while a PC assassin devil adds those modifiers on top of the base stats he generates). Looks like it could make for a viable rogue-type PC. Its stat bonuses help make up for all those missing skill ranks(it can actually be better than a typical rogue). You gain some, and you lose some, so it does not necessarily seem weaker than a lv20 multiclass rogue/fighter. Looks like it may be worth a spot in one's party.:)
Magetastic 04-08-07, 10:34 AM	Of course, you'd need it at higher levels, cause wouldn't you still gain the 14 HD? or no, do they not appear?Not really the HD limit is determined by the caster not the benefactor so based on the spell services (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) a PMaO from a 15th level wizard costs only 1200 gold. Well worth it i say. SOooo not much of a level restriction beyond your abilty to generate 1200 gold and find 15th level wizards.