Undead Centaur question? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Undead Centaur question? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Perseus_Stoned
03-10-07, 08:03 PM Would an undead centaur be able to run indefinitely? Since they have no constitution score, I'd say yes. But would you think that would make them a bit too powerful, being able to constantly run 4x their base movement speed (typically 50ft --> 200ft) with no penalty, albeit that of no dex bonus?

[I'd probably allow it, with the ability to revise it later if it is too broken, but also only allow straight lines of movement when running.)
Draxo
03-10-07, 08:10 PM Why would running away be overpowered?
Perseus_Stoned
03-10-07, 08:15 PM Why would running away be overpowered?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#runx3

I'm not referring to running away or anything, I'm referring to the "run" movement style; effectively being able to run 3, 4, or 5 (with a feat) times faster than a person normally could, varying depending on how long their constitution will allow them to.
obrysii
03-10-07, 08:34 PM The ability to run at 200' is nothing particularly amazing. Its 22 miles per hour. Sure, it'll be able to go tremendous distances in a single day--but a Teleport spell is far more efficient.
Perseus_Stoned
03-10-07, 08:46 PM The ability to run at 200' is nothing particularly amazing. Its 22 miles per hour. Sure, it'll be able to go tremendous distances in a single day--but a Teleport spell is far more efficient.

Alright thanks. But what happens if they throw in a mobility or ride-by attack feat? You think it'd still be fine?
paladin2019
03-10-07, 08:52 PM How is this different than a skeleton? They can also run at 4x their base movement rate, or 120 ft/round. It's already built into assigning a centaur its movement rate. I don't see the problem.
Perseus_Stoned
03-10-07, 08:57 PM How is this different than a skeleton? They can also run at 4x their base movement rate, or 120 ft/round. It's already built into assigning a centaur its movement rate. I don't see the problem.

I simply wasn't aware how undead "running" was handled, the way your question is phrased answers my question. Thank you.
runestar
03-10-07, 09:41 PM Undead have no need to rest, so they could craft items or do manual labout 24 hours a day, march all day long without having to rest, man sentry duty all the time etc...

Too bad animate dead never caught on...:(
Crimson_Concerto
03-10-07, 10:12 PM Alright thanks. But what happens if they throw in a mobility or ride-by attack feat? You think it'd still be fine?

Well, Centaurs aren't mounted, so they don't qualify for Ride-By attack unless you somehow find a suitable mount. Spring attack is what you're looking for, and no, even with that, it probably wouldn't be broken. Good, but not broken. High movement speeds + Spring Attack is a common tactic.
runestar
03-10-07, 10:23 PM Oh, so this is what the other thread in the Monster section is all about...:P
Perseus_Stoned
03-10-07, 10:28 PM Well, Centaurs aren't mounted, so they don't qualify for Ride-By attack unless you somehow find a suitable mount. Spring attack is what you're looking for, and no, even with that, it probably wouldn't be broken. Good, but not broken. High movement speeds + Spring Attack is a common tactic.

My apologies, I should have specified we have a house-rule where Centaurs are granted the "mount requirement" feat for free. Thank you for this clarification.

Oh, so this is what the other thread in the Monster section is all about...:P

Ding :D
runestar
03-10-07, 10:52 PM My apologies, I should have specified we have a house-rule where Centaurs are granted the "mount requirement" feat for free. Thank you for this clarification.
It is not really a houserule if you think about it...
Zelekuts are allowed to do this, and races of faerun does allow centaurs to take the spirited charge feat without having to meet the prereqs.
Crimson_Concerto
03-10-07, 11:02 PM It is not really a houserule if you think about it...
Zelekuts are allowed to do this, and races of faerun does allow centaurs to take the spirited charge feat without having to meet the prereqs.Oh no, Not this whole stupid argument again*! :weep:
Look, I agree that it may be a REASONABLE house rule that is VERY easily justified, but it IS still a house rule.
Centaurs are not Zelekuts, and Spirited Charge is not Ride-By-Attack.

EDIT: *To clarify, I'm calling the argument is stupid (both sides), not you, runestar.
Part-Human2
03-10-07, 11:20 PM Run

You can run as a full-round action. (If you do, you do not also get a 5-foot step.) When you run, you can move up to four times your speed in a straight line (or three times your speed if you're in heavy armor). You lose any Dexterity bonus to AC unless you have the Run feat
...
You can't run across difficult terrain or if you can't see where you're going.

You incur Attacks of Opportunity against yourself when Running
obrysii
03-10-07, 11:33 PM Centaurs are not Zelekuts, and Spirited Charge is not Ride-By-Attack.

You can argue that "centaur-like construction" gives enough precedent to suggest that by RAW centaurs gain the same benefits to their forms as centaur-like creatures.

Logically, it would go as follows:

A has X
A has X because of B
Therefore B has X

Or

Zelekuts meet prerequistes as if they are mounted because of centaur-like construction;
Centaurs have centuar-like construction;
Therefore centaurs meet prerequistes as if they are mounted
Crimson_Concerto
03-11-07, 12:11 AM Obrysii, I am aware of all of this, and I agree. However, that doesn't change the fact that by RAW, centaurs don't qualify for the Mounted Combat feats (except for Spirited Charge if you're using Faurun?).
Yes, because of the Zelekut, it is VERY reasonable to conclude that centaurs SHOULD get the same thing, but the simple fact of the matter is that they don't. I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm saying they don't. Again, it is a very reasonable conclusion and very reasonabe house rule, but that's what it is: a house rule.
celloshane
03-11-07, 12:58 PM Obrysii, for future reference the term you're looking for is Tauric. Centaurs have a Tauric construction.

To the OP, There's nothing overpowered about an undead Centaur's ability to constantly run, but I will go out on a limb and assume want you really want to know is - Would it be overpowering to give my PC's an encounter containing one or more undead centaurs considering the PC's will be vastly outmanuevered?
This depends greatly on the group of PC's. While a DM shouldn't have to serve up tailored encounters on a silver platter, it is unreasonable to put them in situations that are clearly a party wipe waiting to happen. Consider the groups playing style beforehand; are the PC's adaptable and quick to deal with various types of encounters? Do they have resources at their disposal for overcoming the encounter? Or are they generally a hack'n'slash group that uses the same tactics over and over regardless of the situation?
If your PC's are quick to change, then go ahead and throw the Centaur zombie their way, but if they are repeatative you should carefully consider the consequences of the encounter. If you were to post about this in further detail on the "What's a DM to do?" forum, I'd be happy to reply with further thoughts.

If I'm way off and you're asking about this for other reasons, perhaps to play an undead centaur, then if the DM allows it he makes it his problem. I doubt though, that it would significantly affect a campaign however.
Perseus_Stoned
03-11-07, 04:00 PM Obrysii, for future reference the term you're looking for is Tauric. Centaurs have a Tauric construction.

To the OP, There's nothing overpowered about an undead Centaur's ability to constantly run, but I will go out on a limb and assume want you really want to know is - Would it be overpowering to give my PC's an encounter containing one or more undead centaurs considering the PC's will be vastly outmanuevered?
This depends greatly on the group of PC's. While a DM shouldn't have to serve up tailored encounters on a silver platter, it is unreasonable to put them in situations that are clearly a party wipe waiting to happen. Consider the groups playing style beforehand; are the PC's adaptable and quick to deal with various types of encounters? Do they have resources at their disposal for overcoming the encounter? Or are they generally a hack'n'slash group that uses the same tactics over and over regardless of the situation?
If your PC's are quick to change, then go ahead and throw the Centaur zombie their way, but if they are repeatative you should carefully consider the consequences of the encounter. If you were to post about this in further detail on the "What's a DM to do?" forum, I'd be happy to reply with further thoughts.

If I'm way off and you're asking about this for other reasons, perhaps to play an undead centaur, then if the DM allows it he makes it his problem. I doubt though, that it would significantly affect a campaign however.

Well thankfully you've given me enough information already, so I won't need to make any more posts. Thank you very much! :D
celloshane
03-11-07, 05:02 PM Hope it turns out well for you :plotting:
morbid_freak
03-11-07, 07:09 PM Undead have no need to rest, so they could craft items or do manual labout 24 hours a day, march all day long without having to rest, man sentry duty all the time etc...

Too bad animate dead never caught on...:(

Never caught on in your games...

I use undead servants all the time, my DM despises me for it. My skeletal warhorse never gets tired nor does it have to be cared for. The only problem is I had to have a custom saddle made and I still take some ride check penalties because it's so damn skinny.

I disguise my humanoid skeletons as mutes and because they work all time instead of about 8hrs a day, I get x3 more money than the normal labor wages. The rest of the time I usually just disguise them as scarecrows or barrels with boney limbs.
Perseus_Stoned
03-11-07, 08:48 PM barrels with boney limbs.

Ha ha ha, very nice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Perseus_Stoned 03-10-07, 08:03 PM	Would an undead centaur be able to run indefinitely? Since they have no constitution score, I'd say yes. But would you think that would make them a bit too powerful, being able to constantly run 4x their base movement speed (typically 50ft --> 200ft) with no penalty, albeit that of no dex bonus? [I'd probably allow it, with the ability to revise it later if it is too broken, but also only allow straight lines of movement when running.)
Draxo 03-10-07, 08:10 PM	Why would running away be overpowered?
Perseus_Stoned 03-10-07, 08:15 PM	Why would running away be overpowered? http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#runx3 I'm not referring to running away or anything, I'm referring to the "run" movement style; effectively being able to run 3, 4, or 5 (with a feat) times faster than a person normally could, varying depending on how long their constitution will allow them to.
obrysii 03-10-07, 08:34 PM	The ability to run at 200' is nothing particularly amazing. Its 22 miles per hour. Sure, it'll be able to go tremendous distances in a single day--but a Teleport spell is far more efficient.
Perseus_Stoned 03-10-07, 08:46 PM	The ability to run at 200' is nothing particularly amazing. Its 22 miles per hour. Sure, it'll be able to go tremendous distances in a single day--but a Teleport spell is far more efficient. Alright thanks. But what happens if they throw in a mobility or ride-by attack feat? You think it'd still be fine?
paladin2019 03-10-07, 08:52 PM	How is this different than a skeleton? They can also run at 4x their base movement rate, or 120 ft/round. It's already built into assigning a centaur its movement rate. I don't see the problem.
Perseus_Stoned 03-10-07, 08:57 PM	How is this different than a skeleton? They can also run at 4x their base movement rate, or 120 ft/round. It's already built into assigning a centaur its movement rate. I don't see the problem. I simply wasn't aware how undead "running" was handled, the way your question is phrased answers my question. Thank you.
runestar 03-10-07, 09:41 PM	Undead have no need to rest, so they could craft items or do manual labout 24 hours a day, march all day long without having to rest, man sentry duty all the time etc... Too bad animate dead never caught on...:(
Crimson_Concerto 03-10-07, 10:12 PM	Alright thanks. But what happens if they throw in a mobility or ride-by attack feat? You think it'd still be fine? Well, Centaurs aren't mounted, so they don't qualify for Ride-By attack unless you somehow find a suitable mount. Spring attack is what you're looking for, and no, even with that, it probably wouldn't be broken. Good, but not broken. High movement speeds + Spring Attack is a common tactic.
runestar 03-10-07, 10:23 PM	Oh, so this is what the other thread in the Monster section is all about...:P
Perseus_Stoned 03-10-07, 10:28 PM	Well, Centaurs aren't mounted, so they don't qualify for Ride-By attack unless you somehow find a suitable mount. Spring attack is what you're looking for, and no, even with that, it probably wouldn't be broken. Good, but not broken. High movement speeds + Spring Attack is a common tactic. My apologies, I should have specified we have a house-rule where Centaurs are granted the "mount requirement" feat for free. Thank you for this clarification. Oh, so this is what the other thread in the Monster section is all about...:P Ding :D
runestar 03-10-07, 10:52 PM	My apologies, I should have specified we have a house-rule where Centaurs are granted the "mount requirement" feat for free. Thank you for this clarification. It is not really a houserule if you think about it... Zelekuts are allowed to do this, and races of faerun does allow centaurs to take the spirited charge feat without having to meet the prereqs.
Crimson_Concerto 03-10-07, 11:02 PM	It is not really a houserule if you think about it... Zelekuts are allowed to do this, and races of faerun does allow centaurs to take the spirited charge feat without having to meet the prereqs.Oh no, Not this whole stupid argument again! :weep: Look, I agree that it may be a REASONABLE house rule that is VERY easily justified, but it IS still a house rule. Centaurs are not Zelekuts, and Spirited Charge is not Ride-By-Attack. EDIT: To clarify, I'm calling the argument is stupid (both sides), not you, runestar.
Part-Human2 03-10-07, 11:20 PM	Run You can run as a full-round action. (If you do, you do not also get a 5-foot step.) When you run, you can move up to four times your speed in a straight line (or three times your speed if you're in heavy armor). You lose any Dexterity bonus to AC unless you have the Run feat ... You can't run across difficult terrain or if you can't see where you're going. You incur Attacks of Opportunity against yourself when Running
obrysii 03-10-07, 11:33 PM	Centaurs are not Zelekuts, and Spirited Charge is not Ride-By-Attack. You can argue that "centaur-like construction" gives enough precedent to suggest that by RAW centaurs gain the same benefits to their forms as centaur-like creatures. Logically, it would go as follows: A has X A has X because of B Therefore B has X Or Zelekuts meet prerequistes as if they are mounted because of centaur-like construction; Centaurs have centuar-like construction; Therefore centaurs meet prerequistes as if they are mounted
Crimson_Concerto 03-11-07, 12:11 AM	Obrysii, I am aware of all of this, and I agree. However, that doesn't change the fact that by RAW, centaurs don't qualify for the Mounted Combat feats (except for Spirited Charge if you're using Faurun?). Yes, because of the Zelekut, it is VERY reasonable to conclude that centaurs SHOULD get the same thing, but the simple fact of the matter is that they don't. I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm saying they don't. Again, it is a very reasonable conclusion and very reasonabe house rule, but that's what it is: a house rule.
celloshane 03-11-07, 12:58 PM	Obrysii, for future reference the term you're looking for is Tauric. Centaurs have a Tauric construction. To the OP, There's nothing overpowered about an undead Centaur's ability to constantly run, but I will go out on a limb and assume want you really want to know is - Would it be overpowering to give my PC's an encounter containing one or more undead centaurs considering the PC's will be vastly outmanuevered? This depends greatly on the group of PC's. While a DM shouldn't have to serve up tailored encounters on a silver platter, it is unreasonable to put them in situations that are clearly a party wipe waiting to happen. Consider the groups playing style beforehand; are the PC's adaptable and quick to deal with various types of encounters? Do they have resources at their disposal for overcoming the encounter? Or are they generally a hack'n'slash group that uses the same tactics over and over regardless of the situation? If your PC's are quick to change, then go ahead and throw the Centaur zombie their way, but if they are repeatative you should carefully consider the consequences of the encounter. If you were to post about this in further detail on the "What's a DM to do?" forum, I'd be happy to reply with further thoughts. If I'm way off and you're asking about this for other reasons, perhaps to play an undead centaur, then if the DM allows it he makes it his problem. I doubt though, that it would significantly affect a campaign however.
Perseus_Stoned 03-11-07, 04:00 PM	Obrysii, for future reference the term you're looking for is Tauric. Centaurs have a Tauric construction. To the OP, There's nothing overpowered about an undead Centaur's ability to constantly run, but I will go out on a limb and assume want you really want to know is - Would it be overpowering to give my PC's an encounter containing one or more undead centaurs considering the PC's will be vastly outmanuevered? This depends greatly on the group of PC's. While a DM shouldn't have to serve up tailored encounters on a silver platter, it is unreasonable to put them in situations that are clearly a party wipe waiting to happen. Consider the groups playing style beforehand; are the PC's adaptable and quick to deal with various types of encounters? Do they have resources at their disposal for overcoming the encounter? Or are they generally a hack'n'slash group that uses the same tactics over and over regardless of the situation? If your PC's are quick to change, then go ahead and throw the Centaur zombie their way, but if they are repeatative you should carefully consider the consequences of the encounter. If you were to post about this in further detail on the "What's a DM to do?" forum, I'd be happy to reply with further thoughts. If I'm way off and you're asking about this for other reasons, perhaps to play an undead centaur, then if the DM allows it he makes it his problem. I doubt though, that it would significantly affect a campaign however. Well thankfully you've given me enough information already, so I won't need to make any more posts. Thank you very much! :D
celloshane 03-11-07, 05:02 PM	Hope it turns out well for you :plotting:
morbid_freak 03-11-07, 07:09 PM	Undead have no need to rest, so they could craft items or do manual labout 24 hours a day, march all day long without having to rest, man sentry duty all the time etc... Too bad animate dead never caught on...:( Never caught on in your games... I use undead servants all the time, my DM despises me for it. My skeletal warhorse never gets tired nor does it have to be cared for. The only problem is I had to have a custom saddle made and I still take some ride check penalties because it's so damn skinny. I disguise my humanoid skeletons as mutes and because they work all time instead of about 8hrs a day, I get x3 more money than the normal labor wages. The rest of the time I usually just disguise them as scarecrows or barrels with boney limbs.
Perseus_Stoned 03-11-07, 08:48 PM	barrels with boney limbs. Ha ha ha, very nice.