Undead Hitpoints work arounds? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Undead Hitpoints work arounds? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
wolfwing
03-18-08, 05:03 AM Having effectivly 10 con *yeah I know it's non existant* can be nasty, we have damage reduction to quiet a few things, but against another spell caster or enemies that hit hard *shivers dire wolves shivers* having 36 HP on my undead cleric is a bit nasty. I'm wondering if there are any suggestions or ways to get more Hit points, or feats and such that you recomend to help compensate? Or even a template that could be added.

At the moment he's set as a level 5 cleric with teh party being about level 8. Though he's not going into the party just yet, he's just a backup in case I run into any more killer dire wolves *heh killed two of my chars* With something like a mage probably not as much a problem as they will hang back, but with a cleric wich can be at least partly combat orientated being hit can be tough.

For combat I had thought of a good shield, and the strongest armour I could find, probably late or something *especially something that could hide his undeadness by covering up everything. But against fireballs, lightning bolts and such I be a sitting duck.
ArochanoX
03-18-08, 06:52 AM Improved toughness is a start. It grants you immediately 5 hp and later 1 hp per hit die gained (at level 5). There's also a feat "Unnatural resilence" or something like that that allowed you to use charisma score to determine bonus hit points. I can't find the source though. I glanced through Libris Mortis and the Monster Manuals and it seems not to be in there. Savage Species or some dragon magazine could be the source.
zeratulcraft
03-18-08, 07:01 AM Unholy Toughness (Cha mod to HP) is not a feat, it is a special quality of certain undead.
ArochanoX
03-18-08, 09:14 AM Unholy Toughness (Cha mod to HP) is not a feat, it is a special quality of certain undead.

Then it's no wonder I couldn't find such a feat :D
wolfwing
03-18-08, 09:23 AM Improved toughness is pretty nice, heh any other suggestions? Or is there a template that gives something simular to the CHA one?
McPoyo
03-18-08, 09:40 AM Spells that grant temporary HP and aren't powered by Positive Energy are your friend. They are lost first, and are easily renewable, and nearly all of the effects that would grant you them last an hour or so, so well through fights.
1 ton ghost
03-18-08, 12:46 PM -Iron Ward Diamond, Armor Augment Crystals (MagItmCmp) is a cheap, effective way to get DR, which is essentially like extra HP I suppose.
-Invest in a Wand of Inflict for attack purposes, but for you, it's a heal
-Stay mounted as long as you can. Mobility is key w/ low HP. That is, if you can avoid the hit altogether w/ speed or high AC, HP are irrelevant.
wolfwing
03-18-08, 03:53 PM Well being a cleric, and good, I had already planned on preparing all inflict wounds, and then using the convert ability to convert them to healing spells as needed for the party. That would handle some damage, but won't handle enemies or spells that can deal more then my HP in one shot, or more then I can heal in a go.
Finarin Panjoro
03-18-08, 04:28 PM There is also the corpsecrafter feat (Libris Mortis) which gives all undead you create +2 hp per hit dice. Being in a desecrated area gives +1 hp per hit die (or +2 per hit die if there's an altar to an evil diety).

Add Improved toughness and between those three things you've got the equivalent of a 20 constitution in bonus hit points.

EDIT: oops, didn't read thoroughly didn't realize this is for a character you're already playing. Improved Toughness feat, aid and false-life spells (for temp hp), that's about all I can come up with off the top of my head.
Brownie
03-18-08, 05:13 PM Well being a cleric, and good, I had already planned on preparing all inflict wounds, and then using the convert ability to convert them to healing spells as needed for the party. That would handle some damage, but won't handle enemies or spells that can deal more then my HP in one shot, or more then I can heal in a go.

IIRC, good clerics can't prepare inflict wounds spells.

Or did you mean good as a player, and not the alignment?
McPoyo
03-18-08, 05:15 PM Neither the Cure nor Inflict series has an alignment descriptor. Your alignment could care less about whether you can cast either/or.

Just figured I'd point that out.
Brownie
03-18-08, 05:26 PM Neither the Cure nor Inflict series has an alignment descriptor. Your alignment could care less about whether you can cast either/or.

Just figured I'd point that out.

Ah, oh yea, that was just for the spontaneous inflict/cure casting.
wolfwing
03-18-08, 07:33 PM Yeah, I can only spontaniously cast cure spells, so why I have all my spells as inflict, that way I can heal myself at any time, and can just switch them out for heal spells when needed.
Drackthor
03-18-08, 07:51 PM -Iron Ward Diamond, Armor Augment Crystals (MagItmCmp) is a cheap, effective way to get DR, which is essentially like extra HP I suppose.
-Invest in a Wand of Inflict for attack purposes, but for you, it's a heal
-Stay mounted as long as you can. Mobility is key w/ low HP. That is, if you can avoid the hit altogether w/ speed or high AC, HP are irrelevant.

Until finally you fight Bindo Tinkerspark, the Gnome Wizard who only prepares Magic Missile.
McPoyo
03-19-08, 09:05 AM Until finally you fight Bindo Tinkerspark, the Gnome Wizard who only prepares Magic Missile.

Worse than that, what if he has levels in Force Missile Mage?
1 ton ghost
03-19-08, 11:51 AM at least contribute.
not all suggestions are going to be 100% protection to everything out there.
the example mentioned prior is unrealistic at best; the theoretical gnome would not last long surviving on MagMissle alone. that is, employing all offense and no defense is, um, retarded to be blunt and smacks of powergaming and poor PC/NPC design. that's a far stretch really, c'mon...
wolfwing
03-19-08, 03:16 PM Not to mention first level cleric spell, nightshield gives imunities to Magick missle.

Oh and I had found one other way to increase HP. Might hurt a tiny bit, but the slow trait reduces speed by 1/2 but increases HP 1 per level so with improved toughness and that it give my undead cleric equivalent of 14 constitution for HP, not super high, but workable and makes him a bit more sturdy.
1 ton ghost
03-19-08, 03:28 PM i take it most, if not, all undead creation feats do not apply to the creation, err, transformation of a living person into a Necropolitan, yes?

they left the ritual of Crucimigration fairly vague. i mean, you're crucified, some evil chants and Acme Mystic Cirlce Paint, but nothing decisive. i'm just curious how to push that envelope myself given a necro Wzd i employ, "Ch'tturgha".

typically, i've only found it useful for d4 and d6 character classes as losing Con but going to d12 is a nice trade. curious, are you of that opinion too? quite a few floating around the forums seem to feel that d12 isn't so for all undead. more specifically, you lose your Con as normal, but proceed w/ class HD as a living character would.

never heard and official ruling on this. any insight you could have would be nice.

oh, and for what it's worth: any Profane Weapon + Necropolitan PC is a very nice and cost-effective way of sticking it to every living enemy on the planet w/out losing your already lost Con to begin w/.
McPoyo
03-20-08, 11:10 AM Not an HP booster, but a protection thing against your greatest weakness, Positive Energy.

MIC has an item (Page 126, iirc) called the Ring of Protection from Positive Energy. Positive-dominant planar traits don't effect you, and spells utilizing Positive energy don't effect you as long as you are wearing it.

They have one for Negative Energy too.

36k iirc. Great buy for what it does at that point.
Damned slayer
03-20-08, 11:21 AM i take it most, if not, all undead creation feats do not apply to the creation, err, transformation of a living person into a Necropolitan, yes?

they left the ritual of Crucimigration fairly vague. i mean, you're crucified, some evil chants and Acme Mystic Cirlce Paint, but nothing decisive. i'm just curious how to push that envelope myself given a necro Wzd i employ, "Ch'tturgha".

typically, i've only found it useful for d4 and d6 character classes as losing Con but going to d12 is a nice trade. curious, are you of that opinion too? quite a few floating around the forums seem to feel that d12 isn't so for all undead. more specifically, you lose your Con as normal, but proceed w/ class HD as a living character would.

never heard and official ruling on this. any insight you could have would be nice.

oh, and for what it's worth: any Profane Weapon + Necropolitan PC is a very nice and cost-effective way of sticking it to every living enemy on the planet w/out losing your already lost Con to begin w/.

Not official ruling but all the exemples in MM gives ALL HD at D12 (lich, vamp, mumy, ...) So at least we know at conversion you reroll your dices
But I don't see why you woulnd keep rolling D12 afterward
aeulous
03-20-08, 01:21 PM Acuatally if you note on most templeates that make you undead they read as all current and future Hd become D12's
1 ton ghost
03-20-08, 03:05 PM Acuatally if you note on most templeates that make you undead they read as all current and future Hd become D12's

see, that's what i thought, and that's what we use, but still, many persist that it's character HD after, if any, of the d12 reformatting.

i mean, you're averaging 6HP out of 12, yes? sweet deal if you're magi or a scoundrel, right? but, you got no Con. furthermore, you're losing the grace period of Dying/Disabled. ie)you're losing 10 more HP technically as there is no 0 - Neg 10HP. it's 0 = Destroyed, not "Dead". if i may dust off an old chestnut, "final death" ala WoD. so, Raise Dead, Resurrection, etc., aren't gonna' get your Necropolitan back to where you were. in fact, you still eat the XP loss in addition to the XP expenditure to get into Necro. double whammy.

so, fitting w/ the classic immortal motif, you inadvertantly become a little more obsessed or paranoid about safeguarding your (un)living status. poetic.

there are a million reasons to go undead that are terribly practical from a mechanical POV, i'm just of the opinion to go d12 given the serious HD/HP discrepancies concerning their rather unusual condition. balance i guess.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wolfwing 03-18-08, 05:03 AM	Having effectivly 10 con yeah I know it's non existant can be nasty, we have damage reduction to quiet a few things, but against another spell caster or enemies that hit hard shivers dire wolves shivers having 36 HP on my undead cleric is a bit nasty. I'm wondering if there are any suggestions or ways to get more Hit points, or feats and such that you recomend to help compensate? Or even a template that could be added. At the moment he's set as a level 5 cleric with teh party being about level 8. Though he's not going into the party just yet, he's just a backup in case I run into any more killer dire wolves heh killed two of my chars With something like a mage probably not as much a problem as they will hang back, but with a cleric wich can be at least partly combat orientated being hit can be tough. For combat I had thought of a good shield, and the strongest armour I could find, probably late or something *especially something that could hide his undeadness by covering up everything. But against fireballs, lightning bolts and such I be a sitting duck.
ArochanoX 03-18-08, 06:52 AM	Improved toughness is a start. It grants you immediately 5 hp and later 1 hp per hit die gained (at level 5). There's also a feat "Unnatural resilence" or something like that that allowed you to use charisma score to determine bonus hit points. I can't find the source though. I glanced through Libris Mortis and the Monster Manuals and it seems not to be in there. Savage Species or some dragon magazine could be the source.
zeratulcraft 03-18-08, 07:01 AM	Unholy Toughness (Cha mod to HP) is not a feat, it is a special quality of certain undead.
ArochanoX 03-18-08, 09:14 AM	Unholy Toughness (Cha mod to HP) is not a feat, it is a special quality of certain undead. Then it's no wonder I couldn't find such a feat :D
wolfwing 03-18-08, 09:23 AM	Improved toughness is pretty nice, heh any other suggestions? Or is there a template that gives something simular to the CHA one?
McPoyo 03-18-08, 09:40 AM	Spells that grant temporary HP and aren't powered by Positive Energy are your friend. They are lost first, and are easily renewable, and nearly all of the effects that would grant you them last an hour or so, so well through fights.
1 ton ghost 03-18-08, 12:46 PM	-Iron Ward Diamond, Armor Augment Crystals (MagItmCmp) is a cheap, effective way to get DR, which is essentially like extra HP I suppose. -Invest in a Wand of Inflict for attack purposes, but for you, it's a heal -Stay mounted as long as you can. Mobility is key w/ low HP. That is, if you can avoid the hit altogether w/ speed or high AC, HP are irrelevant.
wolfwing 03-18-08, 03:53 PM	Well being a cleric, and good, I had already planned on preparing all inflict wounds, and then using the convert ability to convert them to healing spells as needed for the party. That would handle some damage, but won't handle enemies or spells that can deal more then my HP in one shot, or more then I can heal in a go.
Finarin Panjoro 03-18-08, 04:28 PM	There is also the corpsecrafter feat (Libris Mortis) which gives all undead you create +2 hp per hit dice. Being in a desecrated area gives +1 hp per hit die (or +2 per hit die if there's an altar to an evil diety). Add Improved toughness and between those three things you've got the equivalent of a 20 constitution in bonus hit points. EDIT: oops, didn't read thoroughly didn't realize this is for a character you're already playing. Improved Toughness feat, aid and false-life spells (for temp hp), that's about all I can come up with off the top of my head.
Brownie 03-18-08, 05:13 PM	Well being a cleric, and good, I had already planned on preparing all inflict wounds, and then using the convert ability to convert them to healing spells as needed for the party. That would handle some damage, but won't handle enemies or spells that can deal more then my HP in one shot, or more then I can heal in a go. IIRC, good clerics can't prepare inflict wounds spells. Or did you mean good as a player, and not the alignment?
McPoyo 03-18-08, 05:15 PM	Neither the Cure nor Inflict series has an alignment descriptor. Your alignment could care less about whether you can cast either/or. Just figured I'd point that out.
Brownie 03-18-08, 05:26 PM	Neither the Cure nor Inflict series has an alignment descriptor. Your alignment could care less about whether you can cast either/or. Just figured I'd point that out. Ah, oh yea, that was just for the spontaneous inflict/cure casting.
wolfwing 03-18-08, 07:33 PM	Yeah, I can only spontaniously cast cure spells, so why I have all my spells as inflict, that way I can heal myself at any time, and can just switch them out for heal spells when needed.
Drackthor 03-18-08, 07:51 PM	-Iron Ward Diamond, Armor Augment Crystals (MagItmCmp) is a cheap, effective way to get DR, which is essentially like extra HP I suppose. -Invest in a Wand of Inflict for attack purposes, but for you, it's a heal -Stay mounted as long as you can. Mobility is key w/ low HP. That is, if you can avoid the hit altogether w/ speed or high AC, HP are irrelevant. Until finally you fight Bindo Tinkerspark, the Gnome Wizard who only prepares Magic Missile.
McPoyo 03-19-08, 09:05 AM	Until finally you fight Bindo Tinkerspark, the Gnome Wizard who only prepares Magic Missile. Worse than that, what if he has levels in Force Missile Mage?
1 ton ghost 03-19-08, 11:51 AM	at least contribute. not all suggestions are going to be 100% protection to everything out there. the example mentioned prior is unrealistic at best; the theoretical gnome would not last long surviving on MagMissle alone. that is, employing all offense and no defense is, um, retarded to be blunt and smacks of powergaming and poor PC/NPC design. that's a far stretch really, c'mon...
wolfwing 03-19-08, 03:16 PM	Not to mention first level cleric spell, nightshield gives imunities to Magick missle. Oh and I had found one other way to increase HP. Might hurt a tiny bit, but the slow trait reduces speed by 1/2 but increases HP 1 per level so with improved toughness and that it give my undead cleric equivalent of 14 constitution for HP, not super high, but workable and makes him a bit more sturdy.
1 ton ghost 03-19-08, 03:28 PM	i take it most, if not, all undead creation feats do not apply to the creation, err, transformation of a living person into a Necropolitan, yes? they left the ritual of Crucimigration fairly vague. i mean, you're crucified, some evil chants and Acme Mystic Cirlce Paint, but nothing decisive. i'm just curious how to push that envelope myself given a necro Wzd i employ, "Ch'tturgha". typically, i've only found it useful for d4 and d6 character classes as losing Con but going to d12 is a nice trade. curious, are you of that opinion too? quite a few floating around the forums seem to feel that d12 isn't so for all undead. more specifically, you lose your Con as normal, but proceed w/ class HD as a living character would. never heard and official ruling on this. any insight you could have would be nice. oh, and for what it's worth: any Profane Weapon + Necropolitan PC is a very nice and cost-effective way of sticking it to every living enemy on the planet w/out losing your already lost Con to begin w/.
McPoyo 03-20-08, 11:10 AM	Not an HP booster, but a protection thing against your greatest weakness, Positive Energy. MIC has an item (Page 126, iirc) called the Ring of Protection from Positive Energy. Positive-dominant planar traits don't effect you, and spells utilizing Positive energy don't effect you as long as you are wearing it. They have one for Negative Energy too. 36k iirc. Great buy for what it does at that point.
Damned slayer 03-20-08, 11:21 AM	i take it most, if not, all undead creation feats do not apply to the creation, err, transformation of a living person into a Necropolitan, yes? they left the ritual of Crucimigration fairly vague. i mean, you're crucified, some evil chants and Acme Mystic Cirlce Paint, but nothing decisive. i'm just curious how to push that envelope myself given a necro Wzd i employ, "Ch'tturgha". typically, i've only found it useful for d4 and d6 character classes as losing Con but going to d12 is a nice trade. curious, are you of that opinion too? quite a few floating around the forums seem to feel that d12 isn't so for all undead. more specifically, you lose your Con as normal, but proceed w/ class HD as a living character would. never heard and official ruling on this. any insight you could have would be nice. oh, and for what it's worth: any Profane Weapon + Necropolitan PC is a very nice and cost-effective way of sticking it to every living enemy on the planet w/out losing your already lost Con to begin w/. Not official ruling but all the exemples in MM gives ALL HD at D12 (lich, vamp, mumy, ...) So at least we know at conversion you reroll your dices But I don't see why you woulnd keep rolling D12 afterward
aeulous 03-20-08, 01:21 PM	Acuatally if you note on most templeates that make you undead they read as all current and future Hd become D12's
1 ton ghost 03-20-08, 03:05 PM	Acuatally if you note on most templeates that make you undead they read as all current and future Hd become D12's see, that's what i thought, and that's what we use, but still, many persist that it's character HD after, if any, of the d12 reformatting. i mean, you're averaging 6HP out of 12, yes? sweet deal if you're magi or a scoundrel, right? but, you got no Con. furthermore, you're losing the grace period of Dying/Disabled. ie)you're losing 10 more HP technically as there is no 0 - Neg 10HP. it's 0 = Destroyed, not "Dead". if i may dust off an old chestnut, "final death" ala WoD. so, Raise Dead, Resurrection, etc., aren't gonna' get your Necropolitan back to where you were. in fact, you still eat the XP loss in addition to the XP expenditure to get into Necro. double whammy. so, fitting w/ the classic immortal motif, you inadvertantly become a little more obsessed or paranoid about safeguarding your (un)living status. poetic. there are a million reasons to go undead that are terribly practical from a mechanical POV, i'm just of the opinion to go d12 given the serious HD/HP discrepancies concerning their rather unusual condition. balance i guess.