Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth Sephiroth 02-08-07, 11:54 PM	Note: Recently I've been thinking about a character with a symiote similar to Venom or Carnage from Marvel comics and have started working on an Acquired Template that would grant the abilities. I've only got my first draft and would like to have any suggestions for improving the template. Symbiote Acquired Template, can be applied to any living, corporeal creature without the fire subtype. Type: The creature gains the Abberation (Shapechanger) subtype though they are still affected by anything that would effect the base creature specifically. Hit Dice: Increase base creature’s racial HD by one die size, to a maximum of d12. Do not increase class HD. Speed: +10 to speed Armor Class: Symbiotes gain a +5 Dodge bonus to defense Attack: A Symbiote has two claw attacks and a bite attack, and the claws are the primary natural weapon. If the base creature can use weapons, the symbiote retains this ability. A Symbiote fighting without weapons uses a claw when making an attack action. When it has a weapon, it usually uses the weapon instead. Full Attack: A Symiote fighting without weapons uses both claws and its bite when making a full attack. If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack and its bite as a natural secondary attack. If it has a hand free, it uses a claw as an additional natural secondary attack. Damage: Symbiotes have bite and claw attacks. If the base creature does not have these attack forms, use the damage values in the table below. If the base creature has a natural Bite or Claw attack increase the damage by 1 step. Size Bite Damage Claw Damage --------------------------------------- Fine 1d2 1 Diminutive 1d3 1d2 Tiny 1d4 1d3 Small 1d6 1d4 Medium 1d8 1d6 Large 2d6 1d8 Huge 3d6 2d6 Gargantuan 4d6 3d6 Colossal 5d6 4d6 Special Qualities: A Symbiote. has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus darkvision out to 60 feet and the Powerful Build ability. They gain Fast Healing 1 and Regeneration 1 that is bypassed by Fire and Sonic damage. They are treated as if they are perminantly under the effects of Spider Climb. They have the Uncanny Dodge and Evasion ability (A Symbiote gains Improved Evasion if it would Gain Evasion in another way such as through a class ability and is treated as 4 levels higher in a class that grants Uncanny Dodge). The symbiote also gains the Hide in Plain Sight ability. Manifest Weaponry (Ex): A Symbiote may spend a move action to form any non complex weapon (Complex weapons include crossbows, guns, or other weapons with mechanical parts) with which it is proficient. If this weapon is seperated from the Symbiote for more than 1 round if breaks down to dust. A Symbiote of 10 or more HD treats weapons formed from it as if they were Masterwork weapons. Seperate Sentience (Ex): Symbiotes are sentient and are treated as an Intelligent Item possessed by the wearer who gains this template. They gain an Ego score based on their own mental traits (Int, Wis, Cha). The Mental traits are gained as apropriate for a Character of the base creatures level with a +2 to two of these scores and a +4 to the last as well as gaining bonus' equal to the wearers HD at double the rate. The Symbiote may force it's host to make an Ego check when doing something it disagrees with. Any Mind Affecting effects must suceed against 2 saves rather than the usual one. Spinnerettes (Ex): A Symbiote may produce rope of up to 50 ft per HD per hour, this Rope is adhesive and can be treated as a grappling hook. The webbing vanishes a number of hours later equal to the Symbiotes Con modifier. Sonic Weakness: A critical hit from any attack that deals Sonic damage or does Sonic damage greater than the Symbiotes Constitution score must make a Will save (DC 20) or be forcibly seperated. No Breath: Symbiotes no longer need to breathe, they are immune to drowning Skills: A Symbiote gains a +10 racial bonus to Balance, Climb,Hide, Intimidate, Jump, and Tumble Rope. When using its webbing it also gains a +15 bonus to Use Rope checks. Saves: +4 to all Reflex Saves Feats: A Symbiote gains the Improved Initiative, Danger Sense, and Acrobatic feats as bonus feats. Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +8, Dex +8, Con +4 Alignment: The Character becomes chaotic and moves one step towards evil. The character may make a DC 20 Will save to resist the step towards evil. This does not prevent later alignment changes. Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature + 3 (minimum 4). Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +5.
kadeity 02-08-07, 11:58 PM	if i was you... id make this a cursed item, and a psychoactive skin... which is a psionic item that works pretty much exactly like the Venom Symbiote.
Darth Sephiroth 02-09-07, 12:12 AM	I don't want it to be an item because I want it to be able to reproduce and operate as an independant most as well. I'm working on the stats for the symbiote on its own.
kadeity 02-09-07, 12:12 AM	oh, and you could make it an actual monster/item by making it a Symbiont, like those from Fiend Folio and Magic of Eberron. Symbionts are monsters that can function as items, and generally grant benifits and penalties. but all in all they are monsters.
dfarnsworth 02-09-07, 09:04 AM	If you think you can I would suggest reading up on symbionts from the Fiend Folio and use either a demonic origin or, my favorite, the Far Realm. I would also take the suggestion about the psychoactive skin and cannibalize it. Many possibilities there.
Darth Sephiroth 02-09-07, 03:54 PM	I already have a player who wants one, he's played a Tok'ra character one of my older Stargate games and really liked the idea as well, so I'm keeping it as a template and working on more specific stats for the Symbiote itself.
kadeity 02-09-07, 04:45 PM	um... well sure. But thats not what templates do, and templates cant reproduce any better than items. You can make the"base creature" reproduce, but the symbiote wont be like the Venom one. I.e. it cant be seperated, cant do its own thing, doesnt have str and dex scores of its own...ect. But since you cant see that the thing would be a Sybiont... and since you just made me relaize your game is insane when your mixingg dnd, marvel and stargate... im pretty sure im done trying to help you.
ryuspearhead 02-09-07, 04:50 PM	Note: Recently I've been thinking about a character with a symiote similar to Venom or Carnage from Marvel comics and have started working on an Acquired Template that would grant the abilities. I've only got my first draft and would like to have any suggestions for improving the template. Symbiote Acquired Template, can be applied to any living, corporeal creature without the fire subtype. Type: The creature gains the Abberation (Shapechanger) subtype though they are still affected by anything that would effect the base creature specifically. Hit Dice: Increase base creature’s racial HD by one die size, to a maximum of d12. Do not increase class HD. Speed: +10 to speed Armor Class: Symbiotes gain a +5 Dodge bonus to defense Attack: A Symbiote has two claw attacks and a bite attack, and the claws are the primary natural weapon. If the base creature can use weapons, the symbiote retains this ability. A Symbiote fighting without weapons uses a claw when making an attack action. When it has a weapon, it usually uses the weapon instead. Full Attack: A Symiote fighting without weapons uses both claws and its bite when making a full attack. If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack and its bite as a natural secondary attack. If it has a hand free, it uses a claw as an additional natural secondary attack. Damage: Symbiotes have bite and claw attacks. If the base creature does not have these attack forms, use the damage values in the table below. If the base creature has a natural Bite or Claw attack increase the damage by 1 step. Size Bite Damage Claw Damage --------------------------------------- Fine 1d2 1 Diminutive 1d3 1d2 Tiny 1d4 1d3 Small 1d6 1d4 Medium 1d8 1d6 Large 2d6 1d8 Huge 3d6 2d6 Gargantuan 4d6 3d6 Colossal 5d6 4d6 Special Qualities: A Symbiote. has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus darkvision out to 60 feet and the Powerful Build ability. They gain Fast Healing 1 and Regeneration that is bypassed by Fire and Sonic damage. They are treated as if they are perminantly under the effects of Spider Climb. They have the Uncanny Dodge and Evasion ability (A Symbiote gains Improved Evasion if it would Gain Evasion in another way such as through a class ability and is treated as 4 levels higher in a class that grants Uncanny Dodge). Manifest Weaponry (Ex): A Symbiote may spend a move action to form any non complex weapon (Complex weapons include crossbows, guns, or other weapons with mechanical parts) with which it is proficient. If this weapon is seperated from the Symbiote for more than 1 round if breaks down to dust. A Symbiote of 10 or more HD treats weapons formed from it as if they were Masterwork weapons. Seperate Sentience (Ex): Symbiotes are sentient and are treated as an Intelligent Item possessed by the wearer who gains this template. They gain an Ego score based on their own mental traits (Int, Wis, Cha). The Mental traits are gained as apropriate for a Character of the base creatures level with a +2 to one of these scores as well as gaining bonus' equal to the wearers HD. The Symbiote may force it's host to make an Ego check when doing something it disagrees with. Any Mind Affecting effects must suceed against 2 saves rather than the usual one. Spinnerettes (Ex): A Symbiote may produce rope of up to 50 ft per HD per hour, this Rope is adhesive and can be treated as a grappling hook. The webbing vanishes a number of hours later equal to the Symbiotes Con modifier. Sonic Weakness: A critical hit from any attack that deals Sonic damage or does Sonic damage greater than the Symbiotes Constitution score must make a Will save (DC 20) or be forcibly seperated. Skills: A Symbiote gains racial skill points equal to it's own Intelligence and may spend them on any Class skill of the bearer. The base creature gains a +1 bonus to a skill per four ranks the symbiote places in that skill. Further a Symbiote gains a +10 racial bonus to Balance, Climb,Intimidate, Jump, and Tumble Rope. When using its webbing it also gains a +10 bonus to Use Rope checks. Saves: +4 to all Reflex Saves Feats: A Symbiote gains the Improved Initiative, Danger Sense, and Acrobatic feats as bonus feats. Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +8, Dex +4, Con +2 Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature + 3 (minimum 4). Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +5. arent some versions of venom partally vampiric ? also a symbiote like venom got its oriangal(sp) powers from partally bonding w/ spidy (last time i check ) :)
Darth Sephiroth 02-09-07, 05:34 PM	arent some versions of venom partally vampiric ? also a symbiote like venom got its oriangal(sp) powers from partally bonding w/ spidy (last time i check ) :) It's Original, but it got some of it's powers from Spidey. They need to eat either chocolate or Brains for some reason, but that's something I'm not including in this due to the relative wierdness of it. The Symbiotes have some cool abilities that would be quite fun to mess around with. I ditched the touch telepathy thing that they have for a DnD version though
Khael 02-09-07, 06:05 PM	It's Original, but it got some of it's powers from Spidey. They need to eat either chocolate or Brains for some reason, but that's something I'm not including in this due to the relative wierdness of it. The Symbiotes have some cool abilities that would be quite fun to mess around with. I ditched the touch telepathy thing that they have for a DnD version though Brains? I know the latest game version on a the game boy retconned everything, and set it so Venom (and indeed any of its kin) has to eat or the symbiote eats the host's body. But given its over a space of hours/minutes for the eating to occur (and the fact the retconned background was...for the sake of any younger ears, poo.) I wouldn't include that. Especially not for PC use. But you missed off the cloaking! (Yes, venom, last I checked could cloak camoflage-style in addition to its not triggering spider sense, so it needs at least +10 to hide, and hide in plain sight.) But I don't think spidey gave the symbiote anything at all. Those were its own tricks. And I do think you need to bolt another thing onto Seperate Sentience ability: Even if the symbiote cannot take control of the wearer it can still utilise its own abilities as it wills/fight or overpower the wearer physically. After all in the original comic the symbiote uses it'self/tentacles to drop rhino and shocker off the edge, until spidey webs them to safety. Then comes the bell-scene.
Grave_Accomplice 02-09-07, 08:24 PM	Make it an ooze with symbiote/psychoactive skin abilities. Abilities increase as the critters HD improves (treat it as a cohort? **** it off and it goes away...). I'd also set up an extra chart with ability extentions. Vemons 'kids' all had less effective versions of the base and another exceptional ability. -One had Medusa-esc hair. -Carnage bonded on a blood level, allowing it to be regrown from a wound. There's also the 'not as strong, but a bit faster' angle. -Toxin supposedly has differing abilities. Haven't check up on him though. -One used poison.
Darth Sephiroth 02-09-07, 08:34 PM	Brains? I know the latest game version on a the game boy retconned everything, and set it so Venom (and indeed any of its kin) has to eat or the symbiote eats the host's body. But given its over a space of hours/minutes for the eating to occur (and the fact the retconned background was...for the sake of any younger ears, poo.) I wouldn't include that. Especially not for PC use. But you missed off the cloaking! (Yes, venom, last I checked could cloak camoflage-style in addition to its not triggering spider sense, so it needs at least +10 to hide, and hide in plain sight.) But I don't think spidey gave the symbiote anything at all. Those were its own tricks. And I do think you need to bolt another thing onto Seperate Sentience ability: Even if the symbiote cannot take control of the wearer it can still utilise its own abilities as it wills/fight or overpower the wearer physically. After all in the original comic the symbiote uses it'self/tentacles to drop rhino and shocker off the edge, until spidey webs them to safety. Then comes the bell-scene. That's the Ultimate version of it
V8122 02-09-07, 08:36 PM	um... well sure. But thats not what templates do, and templates cant reproduce any better than items. You can make the"base creature" reproduce, but the symbiote wont be like the Venom one. I.e. it cant be seperated, cant do its own thing, doesnt have str and dex scores of its own...ect. But since you cant see that the thing would be a Sybiont... and since you just made me relaize your game is insane when your mixingg dnd, marvel and stargate... im pretty sure im done trying to help you. The insane one is the one who spells 'mixing' with 2 g's.And realize 'relaize' Personaly, I think its an awesome idea. Sure its similiar to a sybiont, but if you gave it rend... Well, actually, if you gave it rend it would be a freaky troll thing, though I think that venom hemself would have rend. Serously, look at those claws!!!! As for fast healing and regenaration, I would suggest giving it one or the other, not both. Good luck!
Darth Sephiroth 02-09-07, 08:54 PM	Also the symbiotes do reproduce on their own and have their own physical scores when seperate. Seperate they work as an ooze, togather abberation seems to work best
Khael 02-10-07, 07:57 AM	That's the Ultimate version of it The game-boy stuff, yes, Ultimate spider-man. (I only point that out because from the post you made it seemed as though you meant everything I pointed out was USM, the camoflage and 'can overpower' stuff is comic-lore.) But I don't think the host should become an abberation, thoguh shapechanger subtype I'd go with. This is becasue although the two are bonded, the targeted host is still the host. Hold person isn't going to have a different effect because he wears another being. If it would then I think some form of specialised SR is rather more appropriate (namely SR Vs. ceratin spells like hold person.) or a 50% of targeting the host or the symbiote. Of course the symbiote would shrug off any such spell, while leaving open the possiblity of a control spell hitting and controlling the bonded symbiote potentially leading to a forced separation (This is possible by the comics btw if you've ever read one or two with the Stranger appearing in spider-man. If you haven't basically he separted the Venom symbiote and Brock, before later pitting various superheroes including spiderman vs supervillains including the humanoid venom symbiote minus host (yep it can take humanoid form and fight under its own power, though it was much weaker physically without a host), before it eventually called out to its space-roming symbiote kin to come and attack the Stranger, at which point all the combatants including the symbiote returned to their rightful places.) And you need to specify what regeneration factor is given (I'd guess its 1 like the fast heal, but...)
V8122 02-10-07, 08:01 AM	The game-boy stuff, yes, Ultimate spider-man. (I only point that out because from the post you made it seemed as though you meant everything I pointed out was USM, the camoflage and 'can overpower' stuff is comic-lore.) But I don't think the host should become an abberation, thoguh shapechanger subtype I'd go with. This is becasue although the two are bonded, the targeted host is still the host. Hold person isn't going to have a different effect because he wears another being. If it would then I think some form of specialised SR is rather more appropriate (namely SR Vs. ceratin spells like hold person.) or a 50% of targeting the host or the symbiote. Of course the symbiote would shrug off any such spell, while leaving open the possiblity of a control spell hitting and controlling the bonded symbiote potentially leading to a forced separation (This is possible by the comics btw if you've ever read one or two with the Stranger appearing in spider-man. If you haven't basically he separted the Venom symbiote and Brock, before later pitting various superheroes including spiderman vs supervillains including the humanoid venom symbiote minus host (yep it can take humanoid form and fight under its own power, though it was much weaker physically without a host), before it eventually called out to its space-roming symbiote kin to come and attack the Stranger, at which point all the combatants including the symbiote returned to their rightful places.) And you need to specify what regeneration factor is given (I'd guess its 1 like the fast heal, but...) Actualy, the host is transformed internally to. Venom (with Brock) has had a bullet put through his head and he wasn't even injured, so I think that abberition would work. Well, actualy, that might be covered by shapechanger...
ryuspearhead 02-10-07, 11:47 AM	Actualy, the host is transformed internally to. Venom (with Brock) has had a bullet put through his head and he wasn't even injured, so I think that abberition would work. Well, actualy, that might be covered by shapechanger... which vemon? the origanal(sp) , the 90's , ult. , the tv cartoon( my fave.) , the comic version ?
Darth Sephiroth 02-10-07, 05:24 PM	I've been going for a semihyrbridized version of the symbiote for the template, taking bits and pieces from various symbiotes and versions of symbiotes. I've also mixed in a bit of my own to make it work.
V8122 02-10-07, 09:32 PM	which vemon? the origanal(sp) , the 90's , ult. , the tv cartoon( my fave.) , the comic version ? Ultimate.(Newest video-game, though not for long...)
Darth Sephiroth 02-11-07, 12:35 AM	The Ultimate version of the Symbiote is VERY different than the normal universe
Khael 02-11-07, 08:05 AM	Ultimate.(Newest video-game, though not for long...) I'd be loathe to class the 'ultimate version' symbiote as canon here (or at all), since 1) its manufactured not spawned by another of its kind (assuming of course the normal canon symbiote go though that) and 2) the venom it makes is not one that at all viable for a PC (The bit where over a few hours you have to consume about your own mass in food, if not living being beings, to survive. Which means you can never really adventure again without being more of a pariah than a frenzied beserker.) The closest the normal symbiote has is driving the host to a goal (which invovles killing people usually i.e. spiderman to murderous vilgante, venom to destroying the guy who 'lost Brock's job' and rejected the symbiote...why do I suddenly think of "hell hath no fury like a X scorned..."
Darth Sephiroth 02-11-07, 03:15 PM	How balanced is the current template for it's CR/LA
MaverickWolf 02-11-07, 03:26 PM	Brains? I know the latest game version on a the game boy retconned everything, and set it so Venom (and indeed any of its kin) has to eat or the symbiote eats the host's body. But given its over a space of hours/minutes for the eating to occur (and the fact the retconned background was...for the sake of any younger ears, poo.) I wouldn't include that. Especially not for PC use. But you missed off the cloaking! (Yes, venom, last I checked could cloak camoflage-style in addition to its not triggering spider sense, so it needs at least +10 to hide, and hide in plain sight.) But I don't think spidey gave the symbiote anything at all. Those were its own tricks. And I do think you need to bolt another thing onto Seperate Sentience ability: Even if the symbiote cannot take control of the wearer it can still utilise its own abilities as it wills/fight or overpower the wearer physically. After all in the original comic the symbiote uses it'self/tentacles to drop rhino and shocker off the edge, until spidey webs them to safety. Then comes the bell-scene. The abilities the Venom symbiote display were indeed granted by Spider-man. Because the symbiote is something of a parasite, it could learn from Spider-man's DNA, which was modified already, along with his impressive knowledge (including the concept of web cartridges). It took that knowledge and used it, granting itself abilities similar to (and in many ways superior to) Spider-man's. That why Venom can do so much of what Spider-man can. As for the template, I'm inclined to agree that it should be a separate symbiont entirely, much like those for the Daelkyr from Eberron.
Banatine 02-11-07, 03:40 PM	I think to be honest, after a few hours, the PC should have to take a will check or be takeen over by the GM(representing the symbionts control over them)with orders to act in a severly destructive manner.
Darth Sephiroth 02-11-07, 03:48 PM	I think to be honest, after a few hours, the PC should have to take a will check or be takeen over by the GM(representing the symbionts control over them)with orders to act in a severly destructive manner. Not all of the Symbiotes are destructive. Look at Toxin and Hybrid for that infor if nothing else. A bonded Symbiote would be treated like an intelligent item with the ability to force Ego saves
Banatine 02-12-07, 11:14 AM	I think to be honest, after a few hours, the PC should have to take a will check or be takeen over by the GM(representing the symbionts control over them)with orders to act in a severly destructive manner. sorry, i didn't actually post that. my friend sneaked onto my computer when i was in the bathroom. as for the symbionts, i have only ever seen venom and carnage from the cartoon, but they did seem to be able to control their hosts with ease.
Khael 02-12-07, 02:55 PM	The abilities the Venom symbiote display were indeed granted by Spider-man. Because the symbiote is something of a parasite, it could learn from Spider-man's DNA, which was modified already, along with his impressive knowledge (including the concept of web cartridges). It took that knowledge and used it, granting itself abilities similar to (and in many ways superior to) Spider-man's. That why Venom can do so much of what Spider-man can. Some of the abilities you mean, Spiderman never could camoflage after all. But I conceed the point (thought the symbiote can undoubtably use its 'tentacles' as webbing beforehand ala the symbiote throwing Rhino/shocker off the church.) Not all of the Symbiotes are destructive. Look at Toxin and Hybrid for that infor if nothing else. A bonded Symbiote would be treated like an intelligent item with the ability to force Ego saves as for the symbionts, i have only ever seen venom and carnage from the cartoon, but they did seem to be able to control their hosts with ease. I've always looked at it this way: The symbiote wants what the host wants, it simplys twists it slightly: Brock hates spiderman and his symbiote (which was rejected by the same) doesn't need to do anything but remove the inhibition to kill, which he presumedly had. Cassidy/Carnage was a murderer to behind with, so no twisting needed. Toxin is a police man, who with the symbiote becomes an anti-hero, while spider man while wearing the symbiote still fought crime etc. but was simply more violent in that path. The only conflict seems to come when the host tries to break out of the path (Spider man not being willing to go so far as to kill Rhino for example).
Darth Sephiroth 02-12-07, 05:04 PM	Yep, it'll resist an alignment change but eventually acquiess to it after a while
yrogerg 02-12-07, 07:37 PM	I think to be honest, after a few hours, the PC should have to take a will check or be takeen over by the GM(representing the symbionts control over them)with orders to act in a severly destructive manner. Honestly, I think that would best be represented by Ego Scores, a la the Symbiotes in Eberron, at least. They act like intellegent items with regards to granting abilities to the host and possessing Ego Scores, but are still Aberrations rather than Constructs.
Darth Sephiroth 02-12-07, 08:01 PM	The symbiote is an Ooze until it bonds which makes the mixture an Abberation. And the Symbiotes apparently don't need to breathe
Darth Sephiroth 02-13-07, 05:08 PM	Added an alignment change to the template. A single step towards chaotic that can be recovered from
Spikes01k 02-13-07, 08:06 PM	Brains? I know the latest game version on a the game boy retconned everything, and set it so Venom (and indeed any of its kin) has to eat or the symbiote eats the host's body. But given its over a space of hours/minutes for the eating to occur (and the fact the retconned background was...for the sake of any younger ears, poo.) I wouldn't include that. Especially not for PC use. I would not count a game boy game as Venom refrance. I would simply list chocolate, he is right about the chocolate, as a specal requirment or insanity would follow. But you missed off the cloaking! (Yes, venom, last I checked could cloak camoflage-style in addition to its not triggering spider sense, so it needs at least +10 to hide, and hide in plain sight.) Correct he does need that. But I don't think spidey gave the symbiote anything at all. Those were its own tricks. Incorrect, the symboit was able to duplicat spider mans webing and wall crawling abilities. Any symbiot could probably learn to do it, but it had it easier because the venom symboit learned from the physiology of spidy. In fact, if you were going completly lugit you should make it able to duplicat natural extra ordinary abilities of the host after some time bonded, and would be transferable to the next host; but in all honestly that would probably be too powerful! And I do think you need to bolt another thing onto Seperate Sentience ability: Even if the symbiote cannot take control of the wearer it can still utilise its own abilities as it wills/fight or overpower the wearer physically. After all in the original comic the symbiote uses it'self/tentacles to drop rhino and shocker off the edge, until spidey webs them to safety. Then comes the bell-scene. That does make sense. If you hadn't guess it, I am a Venom expert, I collected ALL of the venom mini series collections. As stated by some one befor, you probably want to make it so that the symbiot has some sort of control over the host and probably the ability to prob peoples minds, even the host, on physical contact. Also Venom didn't just have the ability to hold its breath, but rather the ability to filter air to the host in the proper proportions, so you might want to make the ability more of a adaptation, but not an all out "neclace of adaptation" ability. If you want to be completly accurate to Venom I would sugest making it that people with sixth sense abilities such as improved/uncanny dodge would need to make a will save, spot check, some sort of check right befor the attack to make sure that it is still in effect; or even make a natural ability to completly ignore those abilities. In a lot of cases his spider sense didn't work at all against venom or even the other symbiots, on the planate of they symbiots mini series. Venom orriginally learned this ability from being with spider man as long as he was. Edit: Another thing, I would Axe the skill points, give the humanoid some serious bonuses to some physical stats something along the lines of +4 to their str +2 to con Spider man was vastly stronger with the symboit and a bit tougher, and venom is also much stronger. Make the bonus HP represent the symboit and is lost first form fire and sonic damage.
Spikes01k 02-13-07, 08:09 PM	Added an alignment change to the template. A single step towards chaotic that can be recovered from From what I have seen from the older venom stuff I see your point, but I would sugest changing alignemtn TO C/E which would be recovered from slowly, maybe VERY slowly. Edit: Also note a simular thing happened to the symbiots in "Separation Anxiety"
Spikes01k 02-13-07, 08:31 PM	I would sugest if you make another symboit you would give a stat bonus as well. +4 to their weekest physical stat and +2 to their next weekest phyical stat. If the host changes they may keep these bonuses if the host's stats are weeker than the last host, if not, change all the stats to as if it was the first host stat wise.
Darth Sephiroth 02-14-07, 03:13 AM	From what I have seen from the older venom stuff I see your point, but I would sugest changing alignemtn TO C/E which would be recovered from slowly, maybe VERY slowly. Edit: Also note a simular thing happened to the symbiots in "Separation Anxiety" Doesn't totally work, especially when you consider Hybrid and Toxin that both started out as heroic. Perhaps the alignment becomes Chaotic and one step towards evil. Made some changes to fit some more of it. As for why I added the No Breath ability is that the Symbiotes seem able to survive in space as long as they aren't ripped to pieces like what happened to Carnage
Spikes01k 02-14-07, 10:41 AM	Doesn't totally work, especially when you consider Hybrid and Toxin that both started out as heroic. Perhaps the alignment becomes Chaotic and one step towards evil. Made some changes to fit some more of it. As for why I added the No Breath ability is that the Symbiotes seem able to survive in space as long as they aren't ripped to pieces like what happened to Carnage Good point, my bad, that does make some sense though.
Darth Sephiroth 02-14-07, 04:26 PM	I think I have most of the symbiote template hammered out
Khael 02-14-07, 04:30 PM	Well, I think you still need to modify the symbiote sentience, to allow it to 'object' beyond an ego test like it can. But yes the main piece seems pretty hammered out.
Darth Sephiroth 02-14-07, 05:06 PM	The thing with making it more than just an Ego check is that with it's mental stats it can pretty much force it's "Other" to do what it wants for the most part. I also increased it's mental stats a bit.
Khael 02-14-07, 05:25 PM	While this is true (and why I'm laying off calling for an ability to physically overpower the wearer since it would just be too complicated/unneeded), I think it would be able to effectively either eject itself from the host in a worst case, or simply withhold some of its effects ala possess (some fiends can possession mortals and grant them bonuses, but then withhold those bonuses if annoyed), since it does give a definate feel of 'the symbiote is fully alive, and can and will make you physically suffer for defying it' by denying its abilities at critical times, though maybe limiting those denyable powers to things likes its evasion/uncanny dodge,spinnerettes, hide in plain sight, spiderclimb, and the like so as not to leave what would be a high LA open to such weaknesses. What I don't want personally is what in practice rules-wise seems like just a powerful intelligent item. Though I do agree this part should be kept simple etc. it is rather different to using most other intelligent item/races/templates in that the player/party cannot just dispel the symbiote while it is almost another party member in conversations, right down to the host speaking in terms of 'we' not 'I'.
Darth Sephiroth 02-14-07, 11:49 PM	Perhaps add a second Ego check that allows it to withold abilities
Spikes01k 02-15-07, 10:42 PM	I have to disagree with the stat bonuses as for an acutal Venom Symbot. If you pay close attention to the way he moves he is more like a +8 Str, +8 Con, +2 Dex if any dex at all. I would perfer it to be +4 Str and +4 Con, and just leave it as that, but a compermis would be +6 str, +6 con, and +2 Dex. Venom was never really all that dextrus and move of a brut with a lot of specal movment abilites like wall crawling and web slinging.
Darth Sephiroth 02-16-07, 03:56 AM	While Venom is the one I'm naming it after, all of the ones make this up in different ways. Venom is the powerhouse, but the others seem to be more agile.
HalfMunchkin 04-22-07, 11:48 PM	Symbiotes also have damage reduction. Venom was basically bullet-proof. He was shot on many occasions and just laughed it off.
Krusk 04-23-07, 12:14 AM	If i were you i would use the tsochar-sp? race from Lords of Madness. It is pretty much what you want, but it goes on the inside so you don't get a cool suit. If thats a little too far off for what your going for id love to see this once it is done. Guess what im saying is, if you finish and get this balanced I will pretty much steal it.
fiendkiller 04-23-07, 09:25 AM	I don't know if someone already said this, but make sure you give him Vulnerability to Fire.