Warcraft 3 race help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warcraft 3 race help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
darkhunter2007
04-10-07, 01:27 PM Hi, i need help creating a race from warcraft 3 called Night Elves.

I've been throug a lot of beta's, but still i don't think theire good enough.

The race should be L.A +3-4 with:+2 Dex,Con,WIs,Cha, no minuses....

Thanks in advance....
Witch
04-10-07, 01:34 PM Why should their LA be that high? And why no minuses?
RobbyPants
04-10-07, 01:46 PM I made a night elf race once back in 3E. I made them fey. To be honnest, I don't know that I would do that a 2nd time around.

I can see making them LA +1 or 2.

Perhaps, you could start with the drow stats (to give them some mental stat bonuses and spell resistance). I would drop the 120 ft darkvision and replace it with low light vision. Give them the standard elf weapon proficiencies. If you want it to be LA +1, drop the SR from 11 + level to 5 + level. That and without the dark vision, they might be a strong LA +1. If you feel this is still too strong, consider putting a -2 penalty on the Str.
darkhunter2007
04-10-07, 02:02 PM no way!
i'll never drop the night vision!
remember it based on warcraft 3s' night elves.

racial traits:
*+2 Dex,+2 Con,+2 Wis, +2 Cha- The night elves are agile,tough wise and 'calm'.
*night vision: 36m- night elves can see in the dark with colors.
*+2 to Hide,Listen,Move Silently,Seach,Spot checks.
*Add....
MagicMouth
04-10-07, 02:08 PM The Warcraft RPG gives them a +10 bonus to Hide when they remain still (Shadowmeld).
AMGriffin
04-10-07, 02:08 PM Night elves are NOT going to have +3 LA. And no Con bonus, if anything they're going to have a CON penalty.

•+4 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, -2 Strength
• +2 racial bonus on hide and move silently checks.
• Low-light vision/Darkvision
• Fire, Cold, and Acid resistance of 5.
• SLA: Darkness 1/day

That's what I could get from their WoW abilities. If you added on the elven sensory bonuses and saves against etc. etc. it'd be a fairly solid LA+1.
Return of the Flumph
04-10-07, 02:48 PM Are night elves so much tougher than normal elves that they need LA? I've never played WOW, but in Warcraft 3 they weren't noticably better than the high elves.
darkhunter2007
04-10-07, 03:06 PM i just need it for a solo...
AMGriffin
04-10-07, 03:07 PM Nah, you could make 'em LA+0 if you wanted to.
Shedeo
04-10-07, 03:09 PM Actually, I believe that the way Blizzard statted them out in the Warcraft RPG book was like this-

+2 Dex, +2 Wis
-2 Int
Something like two energy resistances, +2 on spot, listen, survival, and the Drow Spell Resistance, then basically the standard Elf stuff. Reason for the Int penalty is simple. They're simple, slightly "barbaric" in nature. Take a look at the WC III Artbook if you want to know what I mean. Also, if they take an arcane casting class, they become High Elves. This race was LA +1.
Tevin Kevlak
04-10-07, 03:09 PM I don't know what server you play on but on my server Night Elves definately don't have such insane bonuses on their stats. Humans and Dwarves both have more strength and more stamina then night elves so unless humans are going to have a +4 con and dwarves a +6 con giving the night elf a con bonus is not representing what the race is like at all.

Stat modifiers that stay true to the actual race would probably look more like this: +2 dex, -2 con, +2 wis, -2 cha. Night elves are agile and quick but like most elves they are frail. Through their long lives they have passed down considerable knowledge to their progeny but their xenophobic natures make it difficult for a night elf to deal with outsiders.

Shadowmeld can be handled in a number of ways. The +10 bonus to hide checks while standing still in low-lit environments is probably the best way of doing this but you could also use invisibility a number of times per day with the stipulation that they cannot move while under the affect of the spell or the spell ceases it's effect.

Wisp form can't be duplicated in a pnp game.

Their nature resistance of 5 could translate into two things (that I can think of) a bonus on saving throws vs. druid spells and the spell like abilities of fey and other wild nature related creatures or it could be Resistances to a number of the elementals damages such as fire, cold, electricity, and acid.

On top of that give them some bonuses on nature related skills, Knowledge (nature) and Survival seem appropriate.
Grod_The_Giant
04-10-07, 03:17 PM <stuff>
QFT. The nature resistance probably should be on the lines of +2 to saves against druid spells and fey SLAs.
3DJutsu
04-10-07, 03:18 PM Umm, just go buy the World of Warcraft d20 book, their Night Elves are a +1LA. And Shadowmeld is cool.
feraltibbit
04-10-07, 04:22 PM There's a Warcraft Compendium out there (I 4get which 1) that has the Night Elves in it.
darkhunter2007
04-10-07, 04:30 PM Does who play WoW can understand why +2 Con, now -2 Int is ok so....

Night Elven Traits:
*+2 Dex,Con (Cha for females),Wis, -2 Int Night Elves are agile and buffy (F. are preety), but due they are seperate from civil. they arn't very Int...
*spell ressitance 5+character level.
*age immortalty: Night elves can't die from age.
*shadowmeld: During (as 3 stars visble) the night the Shadow Elves can turn invisble for 1+ theire Wis mod, a night elf can't move while invisble, movments reveals the night elf.
*+2 recial bonus to Hide,Listen,Move Silently,Search Spot and Survival.
*Elven weapon pro.
*lowlight & darkvision (D.V for 36m)
*Bonus feat from:dodge,Improved Initiative or Combat reflex

Edit: Is Warcraft based on D&D?
RobbyPants
04-10-07, 04:35 PM Does who play WoW can understand why +2 Con, now -2 Int is ok so....
Why do they get a Con bonus? In Warcraft3, the night elves are the weakest (physically) race of the four. Until they came out with the stone giants, they did not have a single "tank" unit (aside from the trees, somewhat). Is there something different about WoW of which I am unaware?
YellowKnight
04-10-07, 04:35 PM Note how in Warcraft 3 night elves were fairly weak (barring mountain giants and maybe chimaeras, which aren't actually elves anyway), and none of their heroes were based off of Strength as a stat (3 Dex, 1 Int). This seems evidence enough to me that if you were going to build the race (assuming you didn't buy the sourcebook), that they definitely wouldn't have a Strength bonus (but not a penalty), and they'd definitely have a Con penalty. On the other hand, they're pretty smart and pretty agile, so they should get Dex bonuses and + to Int or Wis (not both if you want LA +0. Cha should stay at 0 in terms of bonuses or penalties, because they're reclusive and very xenophobic (as someone said previously), but they're also generally fair to look upon.
AMGriffin
04-10-07, 05:26 PM Does who play WoW can understand why +2 Con, now -2 Int is ok so....

Night Elven Traits:
*+2 Dex,Con (Cha for females),Wis, -2 Int Night Elves are agile and buffy (F. are preety), but due they are seperate from civil. they arn't very Int...
*spell ressitance 5+character level.
*age immortalty: Night elves can't die from age.
*shadowmeld: During (as 3 stars visble) the night the Shadow Elves can turn invisble for 1+ theire Wis mod, a night elf can't move while invisble, movments reveals the night elf.
*+2 recial bonus to Hide,Listen,Move Silently,Search Spot and Survival.
*Elven weapon pro.
*lowlight & darkvision (D.V for 36m)
*Bonus feat from:dodge,Improved Initiative or Combat reflex

Edit: Is Warcraft based on D&D?

You have come off as VERY fanboyish, you know this right? Male night elves are just as attractive as female night elves (and looks are a bad basis for charisma anyway). I don't like the whole "being savage means you are dumb" thing either. The CON bonus makes no sense either, they have lower stamina scores then humans in WoW.

Also: Why do they get bonus combat feats?

But if you're going to use that, it looks like LA+2
darkhunter2007
04-10-07, 05:47 PM You have come off as VERY fanboyish, you know this right? Male night elves are just as attractive as female night elves (and looks are a bad basis for charisma anyway). I don't like the whole "being savage means you are dumb" thing either. The CON bonus makes no sense either, they have lower stamina scores then humans in WoW.

Also: Why do they get bonus combat feats?

But if you're going to use that, it looks like LA+2

Not for me :)

first of all they can choose only one feat from the list, not all of them.

and about why night elves should get +2 Con
as said in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_elves

"The men are always of a slim-waisted yet rock-like, extremely muscular build including gigantic bear-like arms and hands. The women are very different, having a slim, athletic build. Unlike most other Elves"
AMGriffin
04-10-07, 05:53 PM Not for me

Groan.

ok, they can choose only one feat from the list, not all of them.

Yeah, but why do they even have them?

Your physical frame doesn't have anything to do with your constitution score necessarily. That just says what they're built like. They could still be just as flimsy as other elves.

and I said it once, I'll say it again.

Night elves have a LOWER strength and stamina score then humans in WoW.
darkhunter2007
04-10-07, 06:00 PM Groan.

Yeah, but why do they even have them?

Your physical frame doesn't have anything to do with your constitution score necessarily. That just says what they're built like. They could still be just as flimsy as other elves.

and I said it once, I'll say it again.

Night elves have a LOWER strength and stamina score then humans in WoW.

you answerd your own question again, In Wow its only based on WoW, i took it and Modif. it to fit a solo game, but heres the last version:

Same as the first with this change:
+4 Dex,+2 Wis, -2 Con and Int

Edit:What stats should i give a solo player 18-12 or 4D6?
SokenzanMarauder
04-10-07, 06:01 PM The actual World of Warcraft d20 has their base stats as +2 spirit (intelligence or wisdom I assume) and -2 to charisma.

And it's OFFICIAL!

Sheesh,
-Gene
darkhunter2007
04-10-07, 06:14 PM I don't play OFFICAL
gullas
04-10-07, 07:35 PM just use the standard phb elf and call it a night elve:P
Witch
04-10-07, 07:39 PM I don't play OFFICAL
Then don't call the Night Elves. What you want aren't night elves.
Tevin Kevlak
04-10-07, 11:05 PM ... Big hands means a con bonus? Are you serious?

You're making your own race but you're using the physical description of them from Wikipedia (which goes about as deep as how the WoW character models look, great reference!) that is basically a long drawn out description from the WC3/WoW game manual.

If you want a non "OFFICAL" Nigh Elf that doesn't actually stem from the Night Elf, whether by lore or actual game terms (video and pnp), then why are you even calling them Night Elves? It's like me making a drink made out of raddish husks and calling it a milk shake. If it's not intended to be a milk shake, don't call it a milk shake.
Shedeo
04-10-07, 11:24 PM Meh. Sin'Dorei are better anyway, but lets not get into that.

I agree with Kevlak. Why did you come here asking for help building Night Elves, and when we help try to make the Night Elves (and accurately depict their various abilities) you disagree. Granted, opinions are opinions, but still.

Anyway, your last version there seems to fit them fairly well, but I'd say remove the Int penalty and give them a Cha penalty. And if you give them SR, make sure its at least 10+ character level. 5+ is effectively worthless.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darkhunter2007 04-10-07, 01:27 PM	Hi, i need help creating a race from warcraft 3 called Night Elves. I've been throug a lot of beta's, but still i don't think theire good enough. The race should be L.A +3-4 with:+2 Dex,Con,WIs,Cha, no minuses.... Thanks in advance....
Witch 04-10-07, 01:34 PM	Why should their LA be that high? And why no minuses?
RobbyPants 04-10-07, 01:46 PM	I made a night elf race once back in 3E. I made them fey. To be honnest, I don't know that I would do that a 2nd time around. I can see making them LA +1 or 2. Perhaps, you could start with the drow stats (to give them some mental stat bonuses and spell resistance). I would drop the 120 ft darkvision and replace it with low light vision. Give them the standard elf weapon proficiencies. If you want it to be LA +1, drop the SR from 11 + level to 5 + level. That and without the dark vision, they might be a strong LA +1. If you feel this is still too strong, consider putting a -2 penalty on the Str.
darkhunter2007 04-10-07, 02:02 PM	no way! i'll never drop the night vision! remember it based on warcraft 3s' night elves. racial traits: +2 Dex,+2 Con,+2 Wis, +2 Cha- The night elves are agile,tough wise and 'calm'. night vision: 36m- night elves can see in the dark with colors. +2 to Hide,Listen,Move Silently,Seach,Spot checks. Add....
MagicMouth 04-10-07, 02:08 PM	The Warcraft RPG gives them a +10 bonus to Hide when they remain still (Shadowmeld).
AMGriffin 04-10-07, 02:08 PM	Night elves are NOT going to have +3 LA. And no Con bonus, if anything they're going to have a CON penalty. •+4 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, -2 Strength • +2 racial bonus on hide and move silently checks. • Low-light vision/Darkvision • Fire, Cold, and Acid resistance of 5. • SLA: Darkness 1/day That's what I could get from their WoW abilities. If you added on the elven sensory bonuses and saves against etc. etc. it'd be a fairly solid LA+1.
Return of the Flumph 04-10-07, 02:48 PM	Are night elves so much tougher than normal elves that they need LA? I've never played WOW, but in Warcraft 3 they weren't noticably better than the high elves.
darkhunter2007 04-10-07, 03:06 PM	i just need it for a solo...
AMGriffin 04-10-07, 03:07 PM	Nah, you could make 'em LA+0 if you wanted to.
Shedeo 04-10-07, 03:09 PM	Actually, I believe that the way Blizzard statted them out in the Warcraft RPG book was like this- +2 Dex, +2 Wis -2 Int Something like two energy resistances, +2 on spot, listen, survival, and the Drow Spell Resistance, then basically the standard Elf stuff. Reason for the Int penalty is simple. They're simple, slightly "barbaric" in nature. Take a look at the WC III Artbook if you want to know what I mean. Also, if they take an arcane casting class, they become High Elves. This race was LA +1.
Tevin Kevlak 04-10-07, 03:09 PM	I don't know what server you play on but on my server Night Elves definately don't have such insane bonuses on their stats. Humans and Dwarves both have more strength and more stamina then night elves so unless humans are going to have a +4 con and dwarves a +6 con giving the night elf a con bonus is not representing what the race is like at all. Stat modifiers that stay true to the actual race would probably look more like this: +2 dex, -2 con, +2 wis, -2 cha. Night elves are agile and quick but like most elves they are frail. Through their long lives they have passed down considerable knowledge to their progeny but their xenophobic natures make it difficult for a night elf to deal with outsiders. Shadowmeld can be handled in a number of ways. The +10 bonus to hide checks while standing still in low-lit environments is probably the best way of doing this but you could also use invisibility a number of times per day with the stipulation that they cannot move while under the affect of the spell or the spell ceases it's effect. Wisp form can't be duplicated in a pnp game. Their nature resistance of 5 could translate into two things (that I can think of) a bonus on saving throws vs. druid spells and the spell like abilities of fey and other wild nature related creatures or it could be Resistances to a number of the elementals damages such as fire, cold, electricity, and acid. On top of that give them some bonuses on nature related skills, Knowledge (nature) and Survival seem appropriate.
Grod_The_Giant 04-10-07, 03:17 PM	<stuff> QFT. The nature resistance probably should be on the lines of +2 to saves against druid spells and fey SLAs.
3DJutsu 04-10-07, 03:18 PM	Umm, just go buy the World of Warcraft d20 book, their Night Elves are a +1LA. And Shadowmeld is cool.
feraltibbit 04-10-07, 04:22 PM	There's a Warcraft Compendium out there (I 4get which 1) that has the Night Elves in it.
darkhunter2007 04-10-07, 04:30 PM	Does who play WoW can understand why +2 Con, now -2 Int is ok so.... Night Elven Traits: +2 Dex,Con (Cha for females),Wis, -2 Int Night Elves are agile and buffy (F. are preety), but due they are seperate from civil. they arn't very Int... spell ressitance 5+character level. age immortalty: Night elves can't die from age. shadowmeld: During (as 3 stars visble) the night the Shadow Elves can turn invisble for 1+ theire Wis mod, a night elf can't move while invisble, movments reveals the night elf. +2 recial bonus to Hide,Listen,Move Silently,Search Spot and Survival. Elven weapon pro. lowlight & darkvision (D.V for 36m) Bonus feat from:dodge,Improved Initiative or Combat reflex Edit: Is Warcraft based on D&D?
RobbyPants 04-10-07, 04:35 PM	Does who play WoW can understand why +2 Con, now -2 Int is ok so.... Why do they get a Con bonus? In Warcraft3, the night elves are the weakest (physically) race of the four. Until they came out with the stone giants, they did not have a single "tank" unit (aside from the trees, somewhat). Is there something different about WoW of which I am unaware?
YellowKnight 04-10-07, 04:35 PM	Note how in Warcraft 3 night elves were fairly weak (barring mountain giants and maybe chimaeras, which aren't actually elves anyway), and none of their heroes were based off of Strength as a stat (3 Dex, 1 Int). This seems evidence enough to me that if you were going to build the race (assuming you didn't buy the sourcebook), that they definitely wouldn't have a Strength bonus (but not a penalty), and they'd definitely have a Con penalty. On the other hand, they're pretty smart and pretty agile, so they should get Dex bonuses and + to Int or Wis (not both if you want LA +0. Cha should stay at 0 in terms of bonuses or penalties, because they're reclusive and very xenophobic (as someone said previously), but they're also generally fair to look upon.
AMGriffin 04-10-07, 05:26 PM	Does who play WoW can understand why +2 Con, now -2 Int is ok so.... Night Elven Traits: +2 Dex,Con (Cha for females),Wis, -2 Int Night Elves are agile and buffy (F. are preety), but due they are seperate from civil. they arn't very Int... spell ressitance 5+character level. age immortalty: Night elves can't die from age. shadowmeld: During (as 3 stars visble) the night the Shadow Elves can turn invisble for 1+ theire Wis mod, a night elf can't move while invisble, movments reveals the night elf. +2 recial bonus to Hide,Listen,Move Silently,Search Spot and Survival. Elven weapon pro. lowlight & darkvision (D.V for 36m) Bonus feat from:dodge,Improved Initiative or Combat reflex Edit: Is Warcraft based on D&D? You have come off as VERY fanboyish, you know this right? Male night elves are just as attractive as female night elves (and looks are a bad basis for charisma anyway). I don't like the whole "being savage means you are dumb" thing either. The CON bonus makes no sense either, they have lower stamina scores then humans in WoW. Also: Why do they get bonus combat feats? But if you're going to use that, it looks like LA+2
darkhunter2007 04-10-07, 05:47 PM	You have come off as VERY fanboyish, you know this right? Male night elves are just as attractive as female night elves (and looks are a bad basis for charisma anyway). I don't like the whole "being savage means you are dumb" thing either. The CON bonus makes no sense either, they have lower stamina scores then humans in WoW. Also: Why do they get bonus combat feats? But if you're going to use that, it looks like LA+2 Not for me :) first of all they can choose only one feat from the list, not all of them. and about why night elves should get +2 Con as said in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_elves "The men are always of a slim-waisted yet rock-like, extremely muscular build including gigantic bear-like arms and hands. The women are very different, having a slim, athletic build. Unlike most other Elves"
AMGriffin 04-10-07, 05:53 PM	Not for me Groan. ok, they can choose only one feat from the list, not all of them. Yeah, but why do they even have them? Your physical frame doesn't have anything to do with your constitution score necessarily. That just says what they're built like. They could still be just as flimsy as other elves. and I said it once, I'll say it again. Night elves have a LOWER strength and stamina score then humans in WoW.
darkhunter2007 04-10-07, 06:00 PM	Groan. Yeah, but why do they even have them? Your physical frame doesn't have anything to do with your constitution score necessarily. That just says what they're built like. They could still be just as flimsy as other elves. and I said it once, I'll say it again. Night elves have a LOWER strength and stamina score then humans in WoW. you answerd your own question again, In Wow its only based on WoW, i took it and Modif. it to fit a solo game, but heres the last version: Same as the first with this change: +4 Dex,+2 Wis, -2 Con and Int Edit:What stats should i give a solo player 18-12 or 4D6?
SokenzanMarauder 04-10-07, 06:01 PM	The actual World of Warcraft d20 has their base stats as +2 spirit (intelligence or wisdom I assume) and -2 to charisma. And it's OFFICIAL! Sheesh, -Gene
darkhunter2007 04-10-07, 06:14 PM	I don't play OFFICAL
gullas 04-10-07, 07:35 PM	just use the standard phb elf and call it a night elve:P
Witch 04-10-07, 07:39 PM	I don't play OFFICAL Then don't call the Night Elves. What you want aren't night elves.
Tevin Kevlak 04-10-07, 11:05 PM	... Big hands means a con bonus? Are you serious? You're making your own race but you're using the physical description of them from Wikipedia (which goes about as deep as how the WoW character models look, great reference!) that is basically a long drawn out description from the WC3/WoW game manual. If you want a non "OFFICAL" Nigh Elf that doesn't actually stem from the Night Elf, whether by lore or actual game terms (video and pnp), then why are you even calling them Night Elves? It's like me making a drink made out of raddish husks and calling it a milk shake. If it's not intended to be a milk shake, don't call it a milk shake.
Shedeo 04-10-07, 11:24 PM	Meh. Sin'Dorei are better anyway, but lets not get into that. I agree with Kevlak. Why did you come here asking for help building Night Elves, and when we help try to make the Night Elves (and accurately depict their various abilities) you disagree. Granted, opinions are opinions, but still. Anyway, your last version there seems to fit them fairly well, but I'd say remove the Int penalty and give them a Cha penalty. And if you give them SR, make sure its at least 10+ character level. 5+ is effectively worthless.