Warforged Magic Armor Bonus questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warforged Magic Armor Bonus questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Runningyellowstream
10-30-07, 08:54 PM 1. Blueshine armor enhancement makes armor immune to rust effects. Would this be true for the rest of the warforged?
ie. no damage from rusting grasp spell.
2. Fortification: does the warforged ability stack with the armor enhancement?

And one additional question not relating to armor.
Since a Warforged is a LIVING construct could it somehow become undead?
I know that being undead doesn't grant it any extra abilities but I still was wondering. (It cannot become a Lich or a Vampire and is questionable as to whether it could be raised as a zombie let alone a skeleton.)
runestar
10-30-07, 09:31 PM 1) Not sure
2) fortification will overlap, rather than stack.
Sinfire Titan
10-30-07, 09:48 PM Double Post.
Sinfire Titan
10-30-07, 09:56 PM 1. Blueshine armor enhancement makes armor immune to rust effects. Would this be true for the rest of the warforged?
ie. no damage from rusting grasp spell.
2. Fortification: does the warforged ability stack with the armor enhancement?

And one additional question not relating to armor.
Since a Warforged is a LIVING construct could it somehow become undead?
I know that being undead doesn't grant it any extra abilities but I still was wondering. (It cannot become a Lich or a Vampire and is questionable as to whether it could be raised as a zombie let alone a skeleton.)

1: It would be up to the DM. Such a thing would be their call.
2: Nope. Waste of money for a 'Forged, IMO.
3: Yes. You just have to find the right template. It is possible to play a Warforged Necrocarnum Zombie.
Napoleon_the_Clown
10-31-07, 04:27 AM 1. Blueshine armor enhancement makes armor immune to rust effects. Would this be true for the rest of the warforged?
ie. no damage from rusting grasp spell.
2. Fortification: does the warforged ability stack with the armor enhancement?

And one additional question not relating to armor.
Since a Warforged is a LIVING construct could it somehow become undead?
I know that being undead doesn't grant it any extra abilities but I still was wondering. (It cannot become a Lich or a Vampire and is questionable as to whether it could be raised as a zombie let alone a skeleton.)
1. I'd say yes, personally.
2. I'm going to go with overlap, as already mentioned by runestar.
3. They're susceptible to necromancy, so yes, technically. It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, but the rules suggest they can become undead.
RobbyPants
10-31-07, 12:57 PM The biggest reason I can think that the Fortification would overlap is because both offer a flat % chance, rather than a bonus. If they each said something like "you get a +25% chance to ignore ciritical hits", then they'd stack.
Edymnion
10-31-07, 01:45 PM 1. Blueshine armor enhancement makes armor immune to rust effects. Would this be true for the rest of the warforged?
ie. no damage from rusting grasp spell.No, it would not. Read the enhancement, it specifically says it grants the protection ONLY to the armor, not the person wearing it. Warforged composite plating is treated like armor. You enchant the armor, not the warforged itself. Putting +5 on your composite armor does not, for example, give you +5 to your slam attacks, nor does having Adamantine Body let you treat your slam attacks as adamantine for the purposes of bypassing hardness.
2. Fortification: does the warforged ability stack with the armor enhancement?No, it does not.And one additional question not relating to armor.
Since a Warforged is a LIVING construct could it somehow become undead?
I know that being undead doesn't grant it any extra abilities but I still was wondering. (It cannot become a Lich or a Vampire and is questionable as to whether it could be raised as a zombie let alone a skeleton.)No, they cannot currently become undead because of their type. They might be living constructs, but they are still of the Construct type. You cannot apply things like the lich template to constructs.
Legdiwena
10-31-07, 01:50 PM Some templates would work I think, Warforged do apply to be living corporeal creatures, do they not?
larry_the_titan
10-31-07, 02:02 PM No, it does not.No, they cannot currently become undead because of their type. They might be living constructs, but they are still of the Construct type. You cannot apply things like the lich template to constructs.

Edy, you are normally right on about these things but you forgot one thing. While most Undead templates might not work I am sure WotC has left a few out there that have the specific term "any living creature". It is the only statement that allows templates to be placed on a warforged. I can name you more then one template worded that way but I don't know of which undead template has that wording.
Sinfire Titan
10-31-07, 02:51 PM No, it would not. Read the enhancement, it specifically says it grants the protection ONLY to the armor, not the person wearing it. Warforged composite plating is treated like armor. You enchant the armor, not the warforged itself. Putting +5 on your composite armor does not, for example, give you +5 to your slam attacks, nor does having Adamantine Body let you treat your slam attacks as adamantine for the purposes of bypassing hardness.
No, it does not.No, they cannot currently become undead because of their type. They might be living constructs, but they are still of the Construct type. You cannot apply things like the lich template to constructs.

Excuse me? When did this ruling come up? Doesn't being made out of adamantine qualify for bypassing hardness?
Runningyellowstream
10-31-07, 04:36 PM Excuse me? When did this ruling come up? Doesn't being made out of adamantine qualify for bypassing hardness?

You are almost correct sir, if you have damage reduction of any kind (other than DR/-) than your natural weapons (ie. warforged salm) are treated as having whatever property (Adamant, Cold Iron, Silver, Etc.) would allow it to overcome the damage reduction. Other effects such as the amount of hardness able to be overcome extra or less damage however are not confered to natural weapons (ie. if you have damage reduction silver your natural weapons may overcome damage reduction as if they were alchemically silvered however they would not take a -1 to damage as normal alchemically silvered weapons do.)

Thanks for the input everyone else.
(Two armour enhancements no longer considered useful and I have alot of books to read before I throw an undead worforged (and some of his living slaves) at my PC's)
Templario
10-31-07, 08:45 PM As a warfogerd, you should pick the feat Improved Fortification (ECS)
Scribbler
10-31-07, 11:20 PM You are almost correct sir, if you have damage reduction of any kind (other than DR/-) than your natural weapons (ie. warforged salm) are treated as having whatever property (Adamant, Cold Iron, Silver, Etc.) would allow it to overcome the damage reduction.

If you have DR/magic you're treated as using a magic weapon for overcoming DR with your natural weapons. It's a special rule for DR/magic, not a general rule for DR.

As for the question you were answering: The Adamantine Body feat grants you the bonuses it says, nothing more. Notice that it also doesn't increase the body's weight. Your armor plates are made out of (or laced with) adamantine, you're not chiseled out of the stuff.
jaelis
10-31-07, 11:34 PM I would rule that blueshine protects you from rusting grasp.

It is certainly true that the fortification enhancement doesn't stack with your natural fortification.

For the undead question, it really matters how you are becoming undead. From the monster manual, the only undead a warforged is eligible to become are skeletons and zombies (assuming you rule that 'forged have skeletons of some kind.) But it would seem pretty reasonable to rule that the ghost template would work. (Living constructs aren't listed as a possibility, but of course they weren't around at the time.)

But in general you just have to look at the template you're thinking about.
Bahumut
11-01-07, 12:25 AM As for the question you were answering: The Adamantine Body feat grants you the bonuses it says, nothing more. Notice that it also doesn't increase the body's weight. Your armor plates are made out of (or laced with) adamantine, you're not chiseled out of the stuff.

note the FAQs on the question...

How would the various warforged “Body” feats (such as
Adamantine Body) affect a warforged’s weight?

These feats (found in the EBERRON Campaign Setting and in
Races of EBERRON) do not list any effect on a warforged
character’s weight.
That said, in the “Dragonshards” web column found at
wizards.com, EBERRON Campaign Setting coauthor Keith
Baker suggested some (optional) weight variants for such
characters. DMs interested in adding some variety to their
warforged characters might find these useful as a house rule.
Feat Base Weight Weight Modifier
Adamantine Body 320 lbs. ×6
Darkwood Body 180 lbs. ×2
Mithral Body 180 lbs. ×2
Unarmored Body 225 lbs. ×3

i like using that, it really gives some fun optional mechanics to compliment good roleplaying.
Mystyc
11-01-07, 01:02 AM I am amused that mithral and darkwood appear to weigh less than nothing at all.
PhaedrusXY
11-01-07, 01:18 AM Well... not exactly. The warforged itself is partially made out of metal. Some of them also have metal plates bolted onto them. If you replace all of the metal (body and plates) with mithril, it might weigh less than a 'forged with an iron body but no plates.
Sinfire Titan
11-01-07, 01:51 AM If you have DR/magic you're treated as using a magic weapon for overcoming DR with your natural weapons. It's a special rule for DR/magic, not a general rule for DR.

As for the question you were answering: The Adamantine Body feat grants you the bonuses it says, nothing more. Notice that it also doesn't increase the body's weight. Your armor plates are made out of (or laced with) adamantine, you're not chiseled out of the stuff.

You are almost correct sir, if you have damage reduction of any kind (other than DR/-) than your natural weapons (ie. warforged salm) are treated as having whatever property (Adamant, Cold Iron, Silver, Etc.) would allow it to overcome the damage reduction. Other effects such as the amount of hardness able to be overcome extra or less damage however are not confered to natural weapons (ie. if you have damage reduction silver your natural weapons may overcome damage reduction as if they were alchemically silvered however they would not take a -1 to damage as normal alchemically silvered weapons do.)

Thanks for the input everyone else.
(Two armour enhancements no longer considered useful and I have alot of books to read before I throw an undead worforged (and some of his living slaves) at my PC's)

Having gauntlets made out of adamantine allows a fighter to bypass hardness, but a warforged, whose fists are made with the stuff doesn't get it? That makes no sense, even for DnD.
jaelis
11-01-07, 11:58 AM Well... not exactly. The warforged itself is partially made out of metal. Some of them also have metal plates bolted onto them. If you replace all of the metal (body and plates) with mithril, it might weigh less than a 'forged with an iron body but no plates.

A solid argument that a 'forged with adamantine body should penetrate DR/adamantium with his natural attack. Because it is evidently not just the armor plates that get replaced :)
Mystyc
11-01-07, 01:23 PM Well... not exactly. The warforged itself is partially made out of metal. Some of them also have metal plates bolted onto them. If you replace all of the metal (body and plates) with mithril, it might weigh less than a 'forged with an iron body but no plates.

Hence "appears to," not "does." It's merely an interesting quirk of the table.

Having gauntlets made out of adamantine allows a fighter to bypass hardness, but a warforged, whose fists are made with the stuff doesn't get it? That makes no sense, even for DnD.

But are the warforged's fists made with it? The feat is called Adamantine Body, which probably includes that protective plating on the chest and back, but may not include the hands.
Wharin
11-01-07, 01:28 PM Having gauntlets made out of adamantine allows a fighter to bypass hardness, but a warforged, whose fists are made with the stuff doesn't get it? That makes no sense, even for DnD.

Well... For what its worth, true adamantine armor gives DR X/- (+3 for Fullplate which is the closest analog to what AB provides). Adamantine Body feat only gives 2/adamantine. So while there is definately some adamantine involved in the construction of said Warforged, it *seems* pretty clear that the alloy (I am going to say alloy instead of thin, sparse plates, as every picture i've seen shows their body to be pretty solid, but that is just my observation) the Warforged is actually made of, its a bit weaker than actual Adamantine. And while it may be *close*, sometimes being "close" simply doesnt cut it.

As such it seems pretty reasonable (to me), that a Adamantine Body'd Warforged's slam attack would *not* count as adamantine to overcome hardness and DR, even if that DR ruling didn't just apply to magic (weapons).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Runningyellowstream 10-30-07, 08:54 PM	1. Blueshine armor enhancement makes armor immune to rust effects. Would this be true for the rest of the warforged? ie. no damage from rusting grasp spell. 2. Fortification: does the warforged ability stack with the armor enhancement? And one additional question not relating to armor. Since a Warforged is a LIVING construct could it somehow become undead? I know that being undead doesn't grant it any extra abilities but I still was wondering. (It cannot become a Lich or a Vampire and is questionable as to whether it could be raised as a zombie let alone a skeleton.)
runestar 10-30-07, 09:31 PM	1) Not sure 2) fortification will overlap, rather than stack.
Sinfire Titan 10-30-07, 09:48 PM	Double Post.
Sinfire Titan 10-30-07, 09:56 PM	1. Blueshine armor enhancement makes armor immune to rust effects. Would this be true for the rest of the warforged? ie. no damage from rusting grasp spell. 2. Fortification: does the warforged ability stack with the armor enhancement? And one additional question not relating to armor. Since a Warforged is a LIVING construct could it somehow become undead? I know that being undead doesn't grant it any extra abilities but I still was wondering. (It cannot become a Lich or a Vampire and is questionable as to whether it could be raised as a zombie let alone a skeleton.) 1: It would be up to the DM. Such a thing would be their call. 2: Nope. Waste of money for a 'Forged, IMO. 3: Yes. You just have to find the right template. It is possible to play a Warforged Necrocarnum Zombie.
Napoleon_the_Clown 10-31-07, 04:27 AM	1. Blueshine armor enhancement makes armor immune to rust effects. Would this be true for the rest of the warforged? ie. no damage from rusting grasp spell. 2. Fortification: does the warforged ability stack with the armor enhancement? And one additional question not relating to armor. Since a Warforged is a LIVING construct could it somehow become undead? I know that being undead doesn't grant it any extra abilities but I still was wondering. (It cannot become a Lich or a Vampire and is questionable as to whether it could be raised as a zombie let alone a skeleton.) 1. I'd say yes, personally. 2. I'm going to go with overlap, as already mentioned by runestar. 3. They're susceptible to necromancy, so yes, technically. It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, but the rules suggest they can become undead.
RobbyPants 10-31-07, 12:57 PM	The biggest reason I can think that the Fortification would overlap is because both offer a flat % chance, rather than a bonus. If they each said something like "you get a +25% chance to ignore ciritical hits", then they'd stack.
Edymnion 10-31-07, 01:45 PM	1. Blueshine armor enhancement makes armor immune to rust effects. Would this be true for the rest of the warforged? ie. no damage from rusting grasp spell.No, it would not. Read the enhancement, it specifically says it grants the protection ONLY to the armor, not the person wearing it. Warforged composite plating is treated like armor. You enchant the armor, not the warforged itself. Putting +5 on your composite armor does not, for example, give you +5 to your slam attacks, nor does having Adamantine Body let you treat your slam attacks as adamantine for the purposes of bypassing hardness. 2. Fortification: does the warforged ability stack with the armor enhancement?No, it does not.And one additional question not relating to armor. Since a Warforged is a LIVING construct could it somehow become undead? I know that being undead doesn't grant it any extra abilities but I still was wondering. (It cannot become a Lich or a Vampire and is questionable as to whether it could be raised as a zombie let alone a skeleton.)No, they cannot currently become undead because of their type. They might be living constructs, but they are still of the Construct type. You cannot apply things like the lich template to constructs.
Legdiwena 10-31-07, 01:50 PM	Some templates would work I think, Warforged do apply to be living corporeal creatures, do they not?
larry_the_titan 10-31-07, 02:02 PM	No, it does not.No, they cannot currently become undead because of their type. They might be living constructs, but they are still of the Construct type. You cannot apply things like the lich template to constructs. Edy, you are normally right on about these things but you forgot one thing. While most Undead templates might not work I am sure WotC has left a few out there that have the specific term "any living creature". It is the only statement that allows templates to be placed on a warforged. I can name you more then one template worded that way but I don't know of which undead template has that wording.
Sinfire Titan 10-31-07, 02:51 PM	No, it would not. Read the enhancement, it specifically says it grants the protection ONLY to the armor, not the person wearing it. Warforged composite plating is treated like armor. You enchant the armor, not the warforged itself. Putting +5 on your composite armor does not, for example, give you +5 to your slam attacks, nor does having Adamantine Body let you treat your slam attacks as adamantine for the purposes of bypassing hardness. No, it does not.No, they cannot currently become undead because of their type. They might be living constructs, but they are still of the Construct type. You cannot apply things like the lich template to constructs. Excuse me? When did this ruling come up? Doesn't being made out of adamantine qualify for bypassing hardness?
Runningyellowstream 10-31-07, 04:36 PM	Excuse me? When did this ruling come up? Doesn't being made out of adamantine qualify for bypassing hardness? You are almost correct sir, if you have damage reduction of any kind (other than DR/-) than your natural weapons (ie. warforged salm) are treated as having whatever property (Adamant, Cold Iron, Silver, Etc.) would allow it to overcome the damage reduction. Other effects such as the amount of hardness able to be overcome extra or less damage however are not confered to natural weapons (ie. if you have damage reduction silver your natural weapons may overcome damage reduction as if they were alchemically silvered however they would not take a -1 to damage as normal alchemically silvered weapons do.) Thanks for the input everyone else. (Two armour enhancements no longer considered useful and I have alot of books to read before I throw an undead worforged (and some of his living slaves) at my PC's)
Templario 10-31-07, 08:45 PM	As a warfogerd, you should pick the feat Improved Fortification (ECS)
Scribbler 10-31-07, 11:20 PM	You are almost correct sir, if you have damage reduction of any kind (other than DR/-) than your natural weapons (ie. warforged salm) are treated as having whatever property (Adamant, Cold Iron, Silver, Etc.) would allow it to overcome the damage reduction. If you have DR/magic you're treated as using a magic weapon for overcoming DR with your natural weapons. It's a special rule for DR/magic, not a general rule for DR. As for the question you were answering: The Adamantine Body feat grants you the bonuses it says, nothing more. Notice that it also doesn't increase the body's weight. Your armor plates are made out of (or laced with) adamantine, you're not chiseled out of the stuff.
jaelis 10-31-07, 11:34 PM	I would rule that blueshine protects you from rusting grasp. It is certainly true that the fortification enhancement doesn't stack with your natural fortification. For the undead question, it really matters how you are becoming undead. From the monster manual, the only undead a warforged is eligible to become are skeletons and zombies (assuming you rule that 'forged have skeletons of some kind.) But it would seem pretty reasonable to rule that the ghost template would work. (Living constructs aren't listed as a possibility, but of course they weren't around at the time.) But in general you just have to look at the template you're thinking about.
Bahumut 11-01-07, 12:25 AM	As for the question you were answering: The Adamantine Body feat grants you the bonuses it says, nothing more. Notice that it also doesn't increase the body's weight. Your armor plates are made out of (or laced with) adamantine, you're not chiseled out of the stuff. note the FAQs on the question... How would the various warforged “Body” feats (such as Adamantine Body) affect a warforged’s weight? These feats (found in the EBERRON Campaign Setting and in Races of EBERRON) do not list any effect on a warforged character’s weight. That said, in the “Dragonshards” web column found at wizards.com, EBERRON Campaign Setting coauthor Keith Baker suggested some (optional) weight variants for such characters. DMs interested in adding some variety to their warforged characters might find these useful as a house rule. Feat Base Weight Weight Modifier Adamantine Body 320 lbs. ×6 Darkwood Body 180 lbs. ×2 Mithral Body 180 lbs. ×2 Unarmored Body 225 lbs. ×3 i like using that, it really gives some fun optional mechanics to compliment good roleplaying.
Mystyc 11-01-07, 01:02 AM	I am amused that mithral and darkwood appear to weigh less than nothing at all.
PhaedrusXY 11-01-07, 01:18 AM	Well... not exactly. The warforged itself is partially made out of metal. Some of them also have metal plates bolted onto them. If you replace all of the metal (body and plates) with mithril, it might weigh less than a 'forged with an iron body but no plates.
Sinfire Titan 11-01-07, 01:51 AM	If you have DR/magic you're treated as using a magic weapon for overcoming DR with your natural weapons. It's a special rule for DR/magic, not a general rule for DR. As for the question you were answering: The Adamantine Body feat grants you the bonuses it says, nothing more. Notice that it also doesn't increase the body's weight. Your armor plates are made out of (or laced with) adamantine, you're not chiseled out of the stuff. You are almost correct sir, if you have damage reduction of any kind (other than DR/-) than your natural weapons (ie. warforged salm) are treated as having whatever property (Adamant, Cold Iron, Silver, Etc.) would allow it to overcome the damage reduction. Other effects such as the amount of hardness able to be overcome extra or less damage however are not confered to natural weapons (ie. if you have damage reduction silver your natural weapons may overcome damage reduction as if they were alchemically silvered however they would not take a -1 to damage as normal alchemically silvered weapons do.) Thanks for the input everyone else. (Two armour enhancements no longer considered useful and I have alot of books to read before I throw an undead worforged (and some of his living slaves) at my PC's) Having gauntlets made out of adamantine allows a fighter to bypass hardness, but a warforged, whose fists are made with the stuff doesn't get it? That makes no sense, even for DnD.
jaelis 11-01-07, 11:58 AM	Well... not exactly. The warforged itself is partially made out of metal. Some of them also have metal plates bolted onto them. If you replace all of the metal (body and plates) with mithril, it might weigh less than a 'forged with an iron body but no plates. A solid argument that a 'forged with adamantine body should penetrate DR/adamantium with his natural attack. Because it is evidently not just the armor plates that get replaced :)
Mystyc 11-01-07, 01:23 PM	Well... not exactly. The warforged itself is partially made out of metal. Some of them also have metal plates bolted onto them. If you replace all of the metal (body and plates) with mithril, it might weigh less than a 'forged with an iron body but no plates. Hence "appears to," not "does." It's merely an interesting quirk of the table. Having gauntlets made out of adamantine allows a fighter to bypass hardness, but a warforged, whose fists are made with the stuff doesn't get it? That makes no sense, even for DnD. But are the warforged's fists made with it? The feat is called Adamantine Body, which probably includes that protective plating on the chest and back, but may not include the hands.
Wharin 11-01-07, 01:28 PM	Having gauntlets made out of adamantine allows a fighter to bypass hardness, but a warforged, whose fists are made with the stuff doesn't get it? That makes no sense, even for DnD. Well... For what its worth, true adamantine armor gives DR X/- (+3 for Fullplate which is the closest analog to what AB provides). Adamantine Body feat only gives 2/adamantine. So while there is definately some adamantine involved in the construction of said Warforged, it seems pretty clear that the alloy (I am going to say alloy instead of thin, sparse plates, as every picture i've seen shows their body to be pretty solid, but that is just my observation) the Warforged is actually made of, its a bit weaker than actual Adamantine. And while it may be close, sometimes being "close" simply doesnt cut it. As such it seems pretty reasonable (to me), that a Adamantine Body'd Warforged's slam attack would not count as adamantine to overcome hardness and DR, even if that DR ruling didn't just apply to magic (weapons).