Warforged tweak - viable? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warforged tweak - viable? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Damuna
07-03-07, 05:37 PM So, earlier today I was looking at the warforged. It seems to be an excellent race, but it has one horrible flaw: Warforged receive no bonus feats, but they must choose their armoured body type at level 1, or they will never be able to choose one again.

It just seems rather unfair to force a player to use their first level feat to choose an armour feat, and I've considered two things:

1. Giving warforged a bonus feat to spend on an armour body feat; or
2. Abolishing the 1st level only requirement of armour body feats

Which seems like a better idea?
NoldorForce
07-03-07, 05:44 PM The latter. The feats still need to have some sort of cost, but forcing them at 1st level is a bit much. You could just handwave the change by allowing such characters to literally retrofit new armor.
Vharuck
07-03-07, 05:51 PM I think the body feat "problem" is one of the warforged race's balancing factors. That's an awesome race. Also, if you can only have one type of body feat, why does it matter when you take it? I'd think getting a free suit of adamantine full plate is worth the most from the get-go.
Rerecros
07-03-07, 05:54 PM I would hardly call receiving a suit of adamantine full plate at the first level a horrible flaw for an already overpowered race. And what's worse is they don't even need to be proficient with that armor type to wear it since there is no attack penalty.
Damuna
07-03-07, 06:01 PM Feats are precious things to a player - a class which receives no bonus feats will only receive 8 feats from level 1 to 20.

Their favoured class is fighter, but the armour proficiencies of being a fighter are completely redundant, since they can't use true armour.

As for balance...normal healing spells only have half effect, and they have two -2 scores. That's more than enough balance, especially since they can never change their armour body after 1st. If you consider that the adamant body gives +5 to AC and more only comes from additional feats, you see that the warforged will really only ever have medium armour, so in the long run, it's not that big a deal.

@Rerecros: full plate gives +8 to AC, that is not full plate.
Rerecros
07-03-07, 06:18 PM If you consider that the adamant body gives +5 to AC...@Rerecros: full plate gives +8 to AC, that is not full plate.

RTFM adamantine body gives out +8 AC, and not quite as much a penalty on skills. Plus this can be enchanted and enhanced by components. It grants DR and it's completely free.
Damuna
07-03-07, 06:31 PM Alright, so it is +8, but I'll ask you to keep a civil tongue.
OrganicAngelAlexiel
07-03-07, 10:32 PM Personally, warforged are overpowered. The list of immunities, and the fact that they can be healed by healing spells and repair spells. Even going warforged juggernaut, or some of the other feats, still too powerful.

They really should have Level Adjustment +1
Genetic
07-03-07, 10:51 PM They gain only half the amount of hp from cure spells. They can also be targeted by things that affect constructs as well as living creatures.

For their immunities, they do make quite a few tradeoffs.
Lelander_the_L
07-04-07, 01:26 AM the warforged get a bonus feat at level two

(Races of Eberron)
Damuna
07-04-07, 01:28 AM Really? Hum, I don't have that book (I don't play Eberron), and it doesn't make note of it in the MMIII.
Lelander_the_L
07-04-07, 01:36 AM Correction for myself. Warforged Fighter gets a bonus feat
Damuna
07-04-07, 01:50 AM Would that be as or in addition to the normal fighter?
Lelander_the_L
07-04-07, 02:07 AM Would that be as or in addition to the normal fighter?

it was in class features for Warforged fighter
Damuna
07-04-07, 02:50 AM I'm assuming WFF is a substitution level, but my question was whether or not it is the same as the normal fighter's bonus feat, or an addtion (which may not have been clear).
SpaceHopper
07-04-07, 07:28 AM From their list of immunities only, warforged are very powerful. No diseases, no poison, no sickness, or fatigue, or sleep effects, or paralysis. Being "forced" to pick your (optional) armour at level one is hardly a flaw in my mind. If anything, i'd say they should have more downsides :)
Neutronium_Dragon
07-04-07, 08:51 AM It's a substitution level, and it doesn't give any additional feats, it just replaces the level 2 bonus [fighter] feat with a bonus [warforged] one.

Are they too powerful? No. Most of the immunities are very situational and cover issues which are already fairly easy for a party to address by the time they're likely to show up in the game; at most it generally means that the party's cleric gets to prepare something more interesting than yet another healing spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Damuna 07-03-07, 05:37 PM	So, earlier today I was looking at the warforged. It seems to be an excellent race, but it has one horrible flaw: Warforged receive no bonus feats, but they must choose their armoured body type at level 1, or they will never be able to choose one again. It just seems rather unfair to force a player to use their first level feat to choose an armour feat, and I've considered two things: 1. Giving warforged a bonus feat to spend on an armour body feat; or 2. Abolishing the 1st level only requirement of armour body feats Which seems like a better idea?
NoldorForce 07-03-07, 05:44 PM	The latter. The feats still need to have some sort of cost, but forcing them at 1st level is a bit much. You could just handwave the change by allowing such characters to literally retrofit new armor.
Vharuck 07-03-07, 05:51 PM	I think the body feat "problem" is one of the warforged race's balancing factors. That's an awesome race. Also, if you can only have one type of body feat, why does it matter when you take it? I'd think getting a free suit of adamantine full plate is worth the most from the get-go.
Rerecros 07-03-07, 05:54 PM	I would hardly call receiving a suit of adamantine full plate at the first level a horrible flaw for an already overpowered race. And what's worse is they don't even need to be proficient with that armor type to wear it since there is no attack penalty.
Damuna 07-03-07, 06:01 PM	Feats are precious things to a player - a class which receives no bonus feats will only receive 8 feats from level 1 to 20. Their favoured class is fighter, but the armour proficiencies of being a fighter are completely redundant, since they can't use true armour. As for balance...normal healing spells only have half effect, and they have two -2 scores. That's more than enough balance, especially since they can never change their armour body after 1st. If you consider that the adamant body gives +5 to AC and more only comes from additional feats, you see that the warforged will really only ever have medium armour, so in the long run, it's not that big a deal. @Rerecros: full plate gives +8 to AC, that is not full plate.
Rerecros 07-03-07, 06:18 PM	If you consider that the adamant body gives +5 to AC...@Rerecros: full plate gives +8 to AC, that is not full plate. RTFM adamantine body gives out +8 AC, and not quite as much a penalty on skills. Plus this can be enchanted and enhanced by components. It grants DR and it's completely free.
Damuna 07-03-07, 06:31 PM	Alright, so it is +8, but I'll ask you to keep a civil tongue.
OrganicAngelAlexiel 07-03-07, 10:32 PM	Personally, warforged are overpowered. The list of immunities, and the fact that they can be healed by healing spells and repair spells. Even going warforged juggernaut, or some of the other feats, still too powerful. They really should have Level Adjustment +1
Genetic 07-03-07, 10:51 PM	They gain only half the amount of hp from cure spells. They can also be targeted by things that affect constructs as well as living creatures. For their immunities, they do make quite a few tradeoffs.
Lelander_the_L 07-04-07, 01:26 AM	the warforged get a bonus feat at level two (Races of Eberron)
Damuna 07-04-07, 01:28 AM	Really? Hum, I don't have that book (I don't play Eberron), and it doesn't make note of it in the MMIII.
Lelander_the_L 07-04-07, 01:36 AM	Correction for myself. Warforged Fighter gets a bonus feat
Damuna 07-04-07, 01:50 AM	Would that be as or in addition to the normal fighter?
Lelander_the_L 07-04-07, 02:07 AM	Would that be as or in addition to the normal fighter? it was in class features for Warforged fighter
Damuna 07-04-07, 02:50 AM	I'm assuming WFF is a substitution level, but my question was whether or not it is the same as the normal fighter's bonus feat, or an addtion (which may not have been clear).
SpaceHopper 07-04-07, 07:28 AM	From their list of immunities only, warforged are very powerful. No diseases, no poison, no sickness, or fatigue, or sleep effects, or paralysis. Being "forced" to pick your (optional) armour at level one is hardly a flaw in my mind. If anything, i'd say they should have more downsides :)
Neutronium_Dragon 07-04-07, 08:51 AM	It's a substitution level, and it doesn't give any additional feats, it just replaces the level 2 bonus [fighter] feat with a bonus [warforged] one. Are they too powerful? No. Most of the immunities are very situational and cover issues which are already fairly easy for a party to address by the time they're likely to show up in the game; at most it generally means that the party's cleric gets to prepare something more interesting than yet another healing spell.