Weak Races [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Weak Races [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Legdiwena
11-06-07, 05:22 PM What is the most sub-par race without a LA?
Einvaldurinn_mikli
11-06-07, 05:41 PM Your mom.

Also, Kobolds from the MM, Half-Orcs maybe, and all types of elves.
ff6shadow
11-06-07, 05:48 PM Using just core, it's probably a toss up between kobolds and half elves.
Japan_the_cougar
11-07-07, 12:37 AM Xvart. -2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Dex, Speak with Rats 1/day, Darkvision, +2 Move Silently.

Pretty bad, huh?

Oh, and half-elf. (Kobolds are all kinds of nasty when made right [excluding Pun-Pun]).
Orchomenos
11-07-07, 11:14 AM Humans.

Wait... it's not another "What is the best race for this or that" thread? :P
Legdiwena
11-07-07, 11:38 AM Wait... it's not another "What is the best race for this or that" thread? :P

Not really. Looking for a challenge for my next campaign. Want something weak that I can make into a workable character without being OP.
Sinfire Titan
11-07-07, 12:26 PM Kobolds are a bit weaker, but they do get some advantages. Especially if you are a druid, wizard, or cleric. IMO, the weaker of the races is Aaisamar. Energy resistance is negligible, even more so at high level. Their SLA coupled with that resistance is a bit underwhelming.

Sure, they are outsiders with decent stat adjustments, but that can be even more of a drawback depending on the campaign. People seem to typecast the race as always being Good aligned, something to which I would disagree about. Both Teifling and Aaisamar need a bump up for their SLAs, like Bless Weapon or Fear in place of Darkness and Light. Not so sure about the Fear, though, as Teiflings can do quiet well with just the Darkness SLA. I just don't think the energy resistance and stats make them worth playing.
Finfreeze
11-07-07, 12:29 PM Without any other books besides the basic 4, probably kobold, half-elf, and maenad.

Buomman can also be a pain, what with their vow of silence.
Legdiwena
11-07-07, 12:42 PM What are you considering the 4th book? XPH?

I have Core 3, XPH, CWar, FRCS, BoED, Psionics Handbook (useless with XPH, lol), and Unearthed Arcana. However, I have access to almost any book from WotC and some from Malhavoc Press.
Finfreeze
11-07-07, 12:53 PM Yeah, XPH.
jradd777
11-07-07, 06:04 PM Kobolds are a bit weaker, but they do get some advantages.

Yeah, I picked up a link to some upgrades (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) to the Kobold that definitely make it less "suck."

I'd say Xvart might be the most sub-par race in pretty much any direction you might want to go.
Legdiwena
11-07-07, 06:13 PM What book are they from?
RobbyPants
11-08-07, 09:57 AM I'd say half-orcs and half-elves are probably the worst.

Kobolds are fairly weak (in terms of ability modifiers), but in the right role (arcane caster), they don't do bad. With the same natural Dex score, they'll have an AC 3 points higher than a human, and they have a fast speed for a small race. The trick is to downplay that horrendous Str penalty.

Elves aren't all that great either. Their Con penalty is a pretty big problem, and some of the abilities just aren't all that useful. The weapon proficiencies are fairly useless. If you're playing a class not proficient in said weapons, you probably shouldn't be using them. About the only good use of them is to give a rogue longbow proficiency.
Legdiwena
11-08-07, 11:05 AM Looking at playing a kobold monk, should be interesting.
RobbyPants
11-08-07, 02:14 PM I wouldn't recommend it, unless you're willing to play a fairly weak character. It could be fun for RP, but you're going to have a lot of compensating to do. ;)
Legdiwena
11-08-07, 02:17 PM Well that's the whole point of the exercise, heheh.
jradd777
11-09-07, 02:46 AM Good luck, ha ha, small monks are a challenge for sure but can still be pretty fun to play. Have fun!
Dipteran_Legacy
11-09-07, 03:21 AM Elves aren't all that great either........... If you're playing a class not proficient in said weapons, you probably shouldn't be using them. About the only good use of them is to give a rogue longbow proficiency.

clerics and wilders can also make pretty good use of them, right off the top of my head. if you got into splat books, pretty much any medium bab, simple weapon proficiency class can benefit from longbow proficiency.

the bows also make a nice backup for wizards at very low levels, especially when coupled with the bonus dex.

really, elves have nothing on the horrendousness of thier half-brethren. they may not be amazing, but they arent that bad, either. imo, the biggest problems with elves is that looking at the raw ability modifiers, they paint a picture of a roguish, slightly magic-resistant race, when the flavor paints them as super magical and elegant swordsmen and blah blah blah....

and to op: good luck!
war_thog
11-09-07, 08:00 AM Elves are good.

Good skills for scouts *and the stat bonus is good for that too*
Proficiency that is good for all classes that arent full BaB.

Cool funky 4hr sleep has cool RP functions.

Minor immunities but can be handy.

The free search thing also favours being a rogue/scout.

And low light vision is everyones friend. Especially the archers.
Now we can see our targets! Yay!

The MM versions of elves are even better.

Only core LA+0 race to get int bonus.
HUAH!

Also wood elves > half orcs in every aspect except darvision vs low light.

All elf abilities + +2str for -2 int. Half orcs get gipped with +2 str costing -2cha and -2 int.
Lame.

Half orcs, Half elves and GNOMES are my vote for worst on sheer power.
Each has a small niche it can work with *barbarian, diplomat and illusionist* but even then they arent the best at it.... :(

So stupid that gnome abilities either own *as illusionists* or are ****ing useless *as non-illusionits*.

Gnomes get my vote for overall worst.
DreamerInsane
11-09-07, 09:37 AM Also wood elves > half orcs in every aspect except darvision vs low light.

Nope. Wood Elves take a hit to CON, which is universally bad, especially if they're supposed to melee.

Wood Elf Dragonborn, on the other hand... Decent racial traits, immunity to dragonfear, and +2STR -2INT stat mods.
Bopple
11-09-07, 10:19 AM Elves makes good wizards and archery rangers, due to its substitution level.
He does fine even for melee, if he is reborn as a dragonborn.
Hochiu
11-09-07, 10:28 AM Sure, they are outsiders with decent stat adjustments, but that can be even more of a drawback depending on the campaign. People seem to typecast the race as always being Good aligned, something to which I would disagree about. Both Teifling and Aaisamar need a bump up for their SLAs, like Bless Weapon or Fear in place of Darkness and Light. Not so sure about the Fear, though, as Teiflings can do quiet well with just the Darkness SLA. I just don't think the energy resistance and stats make them worth playing.

That's why I've dropped the LA for the Planetouched. As you said, the resistences are negiligble, and I usually hit 3rd-5th level before people start groaning about it being a mistake to have played them.

Half-elves suck pretty hard, so I've changed them around somewhat, by giving them access to either a longbow or longsword as their proficient weapon, as well as giving them the human's +4 skill points at 1st level, 1 at each additional level .

And I agree with Dipteran_Legacy about the flavor of the elves contradicting the game mechanics presented.

I'm actually looking to power-up most of the core races to just below requiring an LA for it. I'm currently stuck on some things, though, for flavor.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Legdiwena 11-06-07, 05:22 PM	What is the most sub-par race without a LA?
Einvaldurinn_mikli 11-06-07, 05:41 PM	Your mom. Also, Kobolds from the MM, Half-Orcs maybe, and all types of elves.
ff6shadow 11-06-07, 05:48 PM	Using just core, it's probably a toss up between kobolds and half elves.
Japan_the_cougar 11-07-07, 12:37 AM	Xvart. -2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Dex, Speak with Rats 1/day, Darkvision, +2 Move Silently. Pretty bad, huh? Oh, and half-elf. (Kobolds are all kinds of nasty when made right [excluding Pun-Pun]).
Orchomenos 11-07-07, 11:14 AM	Humans. Wait... it's not another "What is the best race for this or that" thread? :P
Legdiwena 11-07-07, 11:38 AM	Wait... it's not another "What is the best race for this or that" thread? :P Not really. Looking for a challenge for my next campaign. Want something weak that I can make into a workable character without being OP.
Sinfire Titan 11-07-07, 12:26 PM	Kobolds are a bit weaker, but they do get some advantages. Especially if you are a druid, wizard, or cleric. IMO, the weaker of the races is Aaisamar. Energy resistance is negligible, even more so at high level. Their SLA coupled with that resistance is a bit underwhelming. Sure, they are outsiders with decent stat adjustments, but that can be even more of a drawback depending on the campaign. People seem to typecast the race as always being Good aligned, something to which I would disagree about. Both Teifling and Aaisamar need a bump up for their SLAs, like Bless Weapon or Fear in place of Darkness and Light. Not so sure about the Fear, though, as Teiflings can do quiet well with just the Darkness SLA. I just don't think the energy resistance and stats make them worth playing.
Finfreeze 11-07-07, 12:29 PM	Without any other books besides the basic 4, probably kobold, half-elf, and maenad. Buomman can also be a pain, what with their vow of silence.
Legdiwena 11-07-07, 12:42 PM	What are you considering the 4th book? XPH? I have Core 3, XPH, CWar, FRCS, BoED, Psionics Handbook (useless with XPH, lol), and Unearthed Arcana. However, I have access to almost any book from WotC and some from Malhavoc Press.
Finfreeze 11-07-07, 12:53 PM	Yeah, XPH.
jradd777 11-07-07, 06:04 PM	Kobolds are a bit weaker, but they do get some advantages. Yeah, I picked up a link to some upgrades (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) to the Kobold that definitely make it less "suck." I'd say Xvart might be the most sub-par race in pretty much any direction you might want to go.
Legdiwena 11-07-07, 06:13 PM	What book are they from?
RobbyPants 11-08-07, 09:57 AM	I'd say half-orcs and half-elves are probably the worst. Kobolds are fairly weak (in terms of ability modifiers), but in the right role (arcane caster), they don't do bad. With the same natural Dex score, they'll have an AC 3 points higher than a human, and they have a fast speed for a small race. The trick is to downplay that horrendous Str penalty. Elves aren't all that great either. Their Con penalty is a pretty big problem, and some of the abilities just aren't all that useful. The weapon proficiencies are fairly useless. If you're playing a class not proficient in said weapons, you probably shouldn't be using them. About the only good use of them is to give a rogue longbow proficiency.
Legdiwena 11-08-07, 11:05 AM	Looking at playing a kobold monk, should be interesting.
RobbyPants 11-08-07, 02:14 PM	I wouldn't recommend it, unless you're willing to play a fairly weak character. It could be fun for RP, but you're going to have a lot of compensating to do. ;)
Legdiwena 11-08-07, 02:17 PM	Well that's the whole point of the exercise, heheh.
jradd777 11-09-07, 02:46 AM	Good luck, ha ha, small monks are a challenge for sure but can still be pretty fun to play. Have fun!
Dipteran_Legacy 11-09-07, 03:21 AM	Elves aren't all that great either........... If you're playing a class not proficient in said weapons, you probably shouldn't be using them. About the only good use of them is to give a rogue longbow proficiency. clerics and wilders can also make pretty good use of them, right off the top of my head. if you got into splat books, pretty much any medium bab, simple weapon proficiency class can benefit from longbow proficiency. the bows also make a nice backup for wizards at very low levels, especially when coupled with the bonus dex. really, elves have nothing on the horrendousness of thier half-brethren. they may not be amazing, but they arent that bad, either. imo, the biggest problems with elves is that looking at the raw ability modifiers, they paint a picture of a roguish, slightly magic-resistant race, when the flavor paints them as super magical and elegant swordsmen and blah blah blah.... and to op: good luck!
war_thog 11-09-07, 08:00 AM	Elves are good. Good skills for scouts and the stat bonus is good for that too Proficiency that is good for all classes that arent full BaB. Cool funky 4hr sleep has cool RP functions. Minor immunities but can be handy. The free search thing also favours being a rogue/scout. And low light vision is everyones friend. Especially the archers. Now we can see our targets! Yay! The MM versions of elves are even better. Only core LA+0 race to get int bonus. HUAH! Also wood elves > half orcs in every aspect except darvision vs low light. All elf abilities + +2str for -2 int. Half orcs get gipped with +2 str costing -2cha and -2 int. Lame. Half orcs, Half elves and GNOMES are my vote for worst on sheer power. Each has a small niche it can work with barbarian, diplomat and illusionist but even then they arent the best at it.... :( So stupid that gnome abilities either own as illusionists or are ***ing useless as non-illusionits*. Gnomes get my vote for overall worst.
DreamerInsane 11-09-07, 09:37 AM	Also wood elves > half orcs in every aspect except darvision vs low light. Nope. Wood Elves take a hit to CON, which is universally bad, especially if they're supposed to melee. Wood Elf Dragonborn, on the other hand... Decent racial traits, immunity to dragonfear, and +2STR -2INT stat mods.
Bopple 11-09-07, 10:19 AM	Elves makes good wizards and archery rangers, due to its substitution level. He does fine even for melee, if he is reborn as a dragonborn.
Hochiu 11-09-07, 10:28 AM	Sure, they are outsiders with decent stat adjustments, but that can be even more of a drawback depending on the campaign. People seem to typecast the race as always being Good aligned, something to which I would disagree about. Both Teifling and Aaisamar need a bump up for their SLAs, like Bless Weapon or Fear in place of Darkness and Light. Not so sure about the Fear, though, as Teiflings can do quiet well with just the Darkness SLA. I just don't think the energy resistance and stats make them worth playing. That's why I've dropped the LA for the Planetouched. As you said, the resistences are negiligble, and I usually hit 3rd-5th level before people start groaning about it being a mistake to have played them. Half-elves suck pretty hard, so I've changed them around somewhat, by giving them access to either a longbow or longsword as their proficient weapon, as well as giving them the human's +4 skill points at 1st level, 1 at each additional level . And I agree with Dipteran_Legacy about the flavor of the elves contradicting the game mechanics presented. I'm actually looking to power-up most of the core races to just below requiring an LA for it. I'm currently stuck on some things, though, for flavor.