Weaker Illithids? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Weaker Illithids? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheDarkPrince
06-23-07, 06:54 PM Has anyone made a lower LA illithid? If not, any suggestions on what to do?

I was thinking of reducing the bonuses (or just eliminating most of them, str and dex most likely), and reducing the power of their mind blast. Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks, Cheers! :D
Borris
06-24-07, 04:27 AM Apply the Half-Illithid template from the Fiend Folio to one of the races from the PHB (other than human) or any other non-human humanoid race with the same level equivalenet. You end up with a race that has a level adjustment of only +5 (instead of the Mind Flayer's +7), and no racial hit dice. And you keep most of the illithid's iconic abilities (tentacles, brain extraction, high mental ability scores, mind blast, psionic powers, telepathy, spell resistance, etc.)
Thomar_of_Uointer
06-24-07, 01:42 PM I successfully used this (Aberration progression) to play a psuedo-illithid in a game once:
http://kobolds-keep.net/Progressions.pdf

I didn't bother with a brain-eating attack, I just said the character was malformed and didn't have a beak (he was a psion who blasted the tadpole as soon as he became conscious) but still subsisted on a diet of brains. Very tragic and creepy to role-play in the party. If you need to, you could always make an Ability A that lets you perform a coup de grace with your slam attack if you've pinned an opponent.
lord_xarallon
06-24-07, 02:33 PM It is the "instant-kill/brain-eating" ability that gives them high level adjustment.
But their other abilities gives them high level adjustment as well.

Remove or reduce/limit these abilities and you will have lowered their high level adjustment.
Manyfist
06-27-07, 01:32 PM It is the "instant-kill/brain-eating" ability that gives them high level adjustment.
But their other abilities gives them high level adjustment as well.

Remove or reduce/limit these abilities and you will have lowered their high level adjustment.

I think its mostly the wide array of powerful ablities.
zae
06-28-07, 12:37 AM I think its mostly the wide array of powerful ablities.

They have a wide array of powerful abilities?

Mostly, it looks like the combination of a Death Attack on grappled foes (basically a coup de grace on their own pinned enemies) with the ability to Stun (which makes the death attack a lot easier, and is, aside from that, very powerful as it denies the enemy actions).

Without those, you'd be looking at LA +0 and still seem a bit weak. You'd only have crappy hit dice, 4 weak tentacle attacks, decent mental ability scores (but racial hit dice, so no casting classes) and a few SLAs.
Part-Human2
06-28-07, 01:28 AM Probably not what you're looking for but Complete Psionic has feats and a PrC for Psionic characters to become more Illithid. You could just progress a character along that lines and have no LA and only the granted Illiathid abilities of those feats and the PrC.
Rohano
06-28-07, 08:52 AM Take off a few HD. It works just like taking levels off a regular character.
Just dwindle them until you get the desired CR then find the equivalent LA and ECL and go with it.
Manyfist
06-28-07, 02:06 PM Rohano is kinda correct, Illithids are meant to be monsters and so to "discourage" players playing them they added LA. If you want a "player friendly" Illithid I suggest start taking off some stuff.

Maybe your character is a "new born" and hasn't developed all the full blown powers. Such as, your Illithid doesn't have all the super ability scores but instead have +2 Int/Wis/Cha (and their hosts physical score). No natural weapons with your tentacles (they're not as strong as an adult 'thid.) Mindblast should be for 1d4 rounds (or maybe x/day), no Improved grab. No Spell/Power resistance. If you reduce the HD then the Psionic levels (assuming your using the Psionic 'thid) should be reduced as well. No natural armor, and Telepathy can only speak to maximum of 4 people at a time and can communicate with only those with int of 10+.

This should bring it down to reasonable HD/LA (and with LA buy off the LA shouldn't be a problem). In order to feed the illithid must extract when the food is in a position to receive a coupt de grace.

If you do all this then maybe I think you can reduce it to around 2-3 HD and LA:+2-3 if not less.
TheDarkPrince
06-28-07, 04:27 PM Many-Fist: Thanks, that was really helpful. :D

Want a :cookie:?
Manyfist
06-28-07, 06:08 PM Many-Fist: Thanks, that was really helpful. :D

Want a :cookie:?

NP, I always wanted to play as a Illithid my self however waiting to play one at a level 15 game when the CR is 8.
EnderTolstoy
07-02-07, 12:46 AM I realize this is an older thread, but it seems to be the closest to what I'm looking for.

Which book is it that shows how to do the progression chart, to actually start as a first level Illithid, having to take the eight racial ''levels'', thus increasing and gaining the racial abilities, before you can even take one level in any class.

I remember reading about it in a book (I'm aware there is an advanced progression chart in the ELH, but that's for creating epic variations of monsters), but I can't remember which book. If anyone could refer me to that book, or has the progression chart on hand, that would be fantastic.
Razieliffied
07-02-07, 02:58 AM I realize this is an older thread, but it seems to be the closest to what I'm looking for.

Which book is it that shows how to do the progression chart, to actually start as a first level Illithid, having to take the eight racial ''levels'', thus increasing and gaining the racial abilities, before you can even take one level in any class.

I remember reading about it in a book (I'm aware there is an advanced progression chart in the ELH, but that's for creating epic variations of monsters), but I can't remember which book. If anyone could refer me to that book, or has the progression chart on hand, that would be fantastic.

I believe the book you are thinking of is called 'savage species' a book by wizards of the coast built along the lines of letting players play as monsters from lower levels, and to play pretty much any of the more popular monsters out there.
MushroomSpore
07-02-07, 03:06 AM start as a first level Illithid, having to take the eight racial ''levels'', thus increasing and gaining the racial abilities, before you can even take one level in any class.

I think you mean "fifteen racial levels."
SunTzuWarmaster
07-02-07, 08:06 AM Of course, there's the easy way to play an illithid:

The Light Side:
1 - play a wizard
2 - get to a level where you can cast polymorph any object (typically level 15 +/- a scroll)
3 - Polymorph self into an illithid, duration will likely be permanent
*note: this method of becoming an illithid is playable from 1-15 (at least), nets 15 HD (better than 8), and has the spellcasting of a 15th level wizard. It is generally superior in every way to starting as an illithid.

The Dark Side:
1 - find a wizard
2 - pay him whatever it will take to Polymorph Any Object you into an illithid
3 - eat his brain, use him as an entry vector for illithid savant
*note: both an munchkiny, but the above is doable at about level 2 (depends on gold) and is pretty horribly broken.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheDarkPrince 06-23-07, 06:54 PM	Has anyone made a lower LA illithid? If not, any suggestions on what to do? I was thinking of reducing the bonuses (or just eliminating most of them, str and dex most likely), and reducing the power of their mind blast. Anyone got any ideas? Thanks, Cheers! :D
Borris 06-24-07, 04:27 AM	Apply the Half-Illithid template from the Fiend Folio to one of the races from the PHB (other than human) or any other non-human humanoid race with the same level equivalenet. You end up with a race that has a level adjustment of only +5 (instead of the Mind Flayer's +7), and no racial hit dice. And you keep most of the illithid's iconic abilities (tentacles, brain extraction, high mental ability scores, mind blast, psionic powers, telepathy, spell resistance, etc.)
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-24-07, 01:42 PM	I successfully used this (Aberration progression) to play a psuedo-illithid in a game once: http://kobolds-keep.net/Progressions.pdf I didn't bother with a brain-eating attack, I just said the character was malformed and didn't have a beak (he was a psion who blasted the tadpole as soon as he became conscious) but still subsisted on a diet of brains. Very tragic and creepy to role-play in the party. If you need to, you could always make an Ability A that lets you perform a coup de grace with your slam attack if you've pinned an opponent.
lord_xarallon 06-24-07, 02:33 PM	It is the "instant-kill/brain-eating" ability that gives them high level adjustment. But their other abilities gives them high level adjustment as well. Remove or reduce/limit these abilities and you will have lowered their high level adjustment.
Manyfist 06-27-07, 01:32 PM	It is the "instant-kill/brain-eating" ability that gives them high level adjustment. But their other abilities gives them high level adjustment as well. Remove or reduce/limit these abilities and you will have lowered their high level adjustment. I think its mostly the wide array of powerful ablities.
zae 06-28-07, 12:37 AM	I think its mostly the wide array of powerful ablities. They have a wide array of powerful abilities? Mostly, it looks like the combination of a Death Attack on grappled foes (basically a coup de grace on their own pinned enemies) with the ability to Stun (which makes the death attack a lot easier, and is, aside from that, very powerful as it denies the enemy actions). Without those, you'd be looking at LA +0 and still seem a bit weak. You'd only have crappy hit dice, 4 weak tentacle attacks, decent mental ability scores (but racial hit dice, so no casting classes) and a few SLAs.
Part-Human2 06-28-07, 01:28 AM	Probably not what you're looking for but Complete Psionic has feats and a PrC for Psionic characters to become more Illithid. You could just progress a character along that lines and have no LA and only the granted Illiathid abilities of those feats and the PrC.
Rohano 06-28-07, 08:52 AM	Take off a few HD. It works just like taking levels off a regular character. Just dwindle them until you get the desired CR then find the equivalent LA and ECL and go with it.
Manyfist 06-28-07, 02:06 PM	Rohano is kinda correct, Illithids are meant to be monsters and so to "discourage" players playing them they added LA. If you want a "player friendly" Illithid I suggest start taking off some stuff. Maybe your character is a "new born" and hasn't developed all the full blown powers. Such as, your Illithid doesn't have all the super ability scores but instead have +2 Int/Wis/Cha (and their hosts physical score). No natural weapons with your tentacles (they're not as strong as an adult 'thid.) Mindblast should be for 1d4 rounds (or maybe x/day), no Improved grab. No Spell/Power resistance. If you reduce the HD then the Psionic levels (assuming your using the Psionic 'thid) should be reduced as well. No natural armor, and Telepathy can only speak to maximum of 4 people at a time and can communicate with only those with int of 10+. This should bring it down to reasonable HD/LA (and with LA buy off the LA shouldn't be a problem). In order to feed the illithid must extract when the food is in a position to receive a coupt de grace. If you do all this then maybe I think you can reduce it to around 2-3 HD and LA:+2-3 if not less.
TheDarkPrince 06-28-07, 04:27 PM	Many-Fist: Thanks, that was really helpful. :D Want a :cookie:?
Manyfist 06-28-07, 06:08 PM	Many-Fist: Thanks, that was really helpful. :D Want a :cookie:? NP, I always wanted to play as a Illithid my self however waiting to play one at a level 15 game when the CR is 8.
EnderTolstoy 07-02-07, 12:46 AM	I realize this is an older thread, but it seems to be the closest to what I'm looking for. Which book is it that shows how to do the progression chart, to actually start as a first level Illithid, having to take the eight racial ''levels'', thus increasing and gaining the racial abilities, before you can even take one level in any class. I remember reading about it in a book (I'm aware there is an advanced progression chart in the ELH, but that's for creating epic variations of monsters), but I can't remember which book. If anyone could refer me to that book, or has the progression chart on hand, that would be fantastic.
Razieliffied 07-02-07, 02:58 AM	I realize this is an older thread, but it seems to be the closest to what I'm looking for. Which book is it that shows how to do the progression chart, to actually start as a first level Illithid, having to take the eight racial ''levels'', thus increasing and gaining the racial abilities, before you can even take one level in any class. I remember reading about it in a book (I'm aware there is an advanced progression chart in the ELH, but that's for creating epic variations of monsters), but I can't remember which book. If anyone could refer me to that book, or has the progression chart on hand, that would be fantastic. I believe the book you are thinking of is called 'savage species' a book by wizards of the coast built along the lines of letting players play as monsters from lower levels, and to play pretty much any of the more popular monsters out there.
MushroomSpore 07-02-07, 03:06 AM	start as a first level Illithid, having to take the eight racial ''levels'', thus increasing and gaining the racial abilities, before you can even take one level in any class. I think you mean "fifteen racial levels."
SunTzuWarmaster 07-02-07, 08:06 AM	Of course, there's the easy way to play an illithid: The Light Side: 1 - play a wizard 2 - get to a level where you can cast polymorph any object (typically level 15 +/- a scroll) 3 - Polymorph self into an illithid, duration will likely be permanent note: this method of becoming an illithid is playable from 1-15 (at least), nets 15 HD (better than 8), and has the spellcasting of a 15th level wizard. It is generally superior in every way to starting as an illithid. The Dark Side: 1 - find a wizard 2 - pay him whatever it will take to Polymorph Any Object you into an illithid 3 - eat his brain, use him as an entry vector for illithid savant note: both an munchkiny, but the above is doable at about level 2 (depends on gold) and is pretty horribly broken.