Werebear Adjustment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Werebear Adjustment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
houkama
12-02-07, 01:01 AM I need to bring the LA of a natural werebear down to +2 ECL. Any ideas for nerfing this?
IdleAltruism
12-02-07, 01:21 AM Well...werebear is an ECL of 9....starting character level would be 10

Shrinking that down is pretty much impossible.

You could use the savage progression. IE play it from level 1-9.

Alternatively you could take away the stat modifiers, special qualities, special attacks, and size variantion while shapechanging. Then give him a bonus feat at first level, 4 bonus skill points at first level, and 1 bonus skill point per level. Then call it a werebear man(I'm thinking grizzly adams). Maybe take levels into bear warrior(basically same effect). Or be a barbarian and when you get angry you grow hairier instead of green.

Lycanthropes have to many bonuses to effectively shrink down that low. Maybe use a shifter with barbarian levels with totem of the bear? Improved grab is always fun.
heavenisme
12-02-07, 01:44 AM He needs to bring it down to LA +4 is what he's trying to say... Suggestions?
Quoward
12-02-07, 01:50 AM You could use the savage progression. IE play it from level 1-9.

To expand on that for houkama, I went to find the link to the savage progression: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031114a
Hopefully one doesn't have to take all the levels in it, hence you'd be able to just take some and still manage whatever build required you to reduce it. Biggest problem would be convincing a DM to allow a savage progression really.

EDIT: It's not the first savage progression on that page, so you'll need to scroll down.
heavenisme
12-02-07, 02:08 AM I am the DM & Savage is fine.

He is trying to homebrew a +4 LA for a Werebear

Any suggestions?
Finfreeze
12-02-07, 02:12 AM Well, you could make the transformation to bear form(s) temporary. The reason why lycanthropes take a huge ECL hit is that they can stay in their beefy animal or hybrid forms all day long. I made a race that basically handled this with a power point system. Pretty rough, but it gets the job done.

RAVENMAN
Medium size.
Humanoid (beastman)
Base land speed 30'.
Fly speed 30' (average maneuverability).
Low-Light Vision.
Naturally Psionic: A ravenman gains +1 Power Point at first level and +1 PP every even level thereafter.
+4 racial bonus on sleight of hand checks.
+2 racial bonus on listen and spot checks.
Bonus Power Known: Raven Morph. A ravenman's manifester level for the purposes of this power is equal to its character level.
Talons: A ravenman can choose to deal piercing or slashing damage with its unarmed strikes instead of its usual bludgeoning damage. This ability does not confer proficiency with unarmed strikes. A ravenman's unarmed strikes count as claw or talon attacks for the purposes of diving.
Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Any.

NEW POWER: Raven Morph
L1
blahblahblah
Manifesting Time: Move Action
Target: Self
Duration: 2 rounds
Your body transforms into that of a giant raven. In raven form, you gain a +4 transformation bonus to Strength and Dexterity. In addition, you gain a +20' transformation bonus to your flight speed and your mobility increases by one step. All equipment melds with your body, but does not become unusable (because that would be a total pain to bother with, especially with wondrous items and rings). Ravens do not have any hands with which to use most weapons, but they can still use melded or worn gauntlets just fine.

You can remain in raven form once the power has ended, but there are consequences. On the round after the spell's duration has ended, you can use a move action to revert to your normal form and suffer no additional consequences. If you do not, you take 1d8 cumulative damage at the end of the round every round until you revert. You may prematurely end this power and revert to humanoid form by using a move action.

Augment: You can augment this power in this following ways:
1. Per +4 PP: +2 Str and Dex.
2. Per +4 PP: +20' flight speed, perfect mobility.
3. +6 PP: Swift Action to change to raven form and back to humanoid form.
4. +6 PP: Your size increases by one step.
In addition, every PP spent to achieve the listed effects also increases the duration by 2 rounds.

Special: This power is exclusive to ravenmen. All ravenmen know this ability. It cannot be learned by any other means. Should a ravenman be reincarnated into another race, it loses this power until it becomes a ravenman again.

Certainly, there are other ways to make it work. Let's say...make it a L1 feat.

Lycanthrope's Brand [Racial]
You are a natural lycanthrope.
Once per day per 4 character levels you may assume a half-animal, half-human form as a standard action. In hybrid form you gain the following adjustments and abilities depending on type of animal your lycanthropy is based on. This ability lasts 4 rounds + your new constitution modifier. Doing this on the fly here...

Bear: +4 Str, +2 Con, Scent
Wolf: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, Scent
Tiger: +4 Str, +2 Dex, Scent
Walrus: +2 Str, +4 Con, Swim 30'
Crab: +4 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, Land Speed -10', Swim 20', Light Fortification
Bat: +2 Dex, Fly 30' (average), Blindsight 30'

In addition, you take an additional 1d6*(the weapon's enhancement bonus+1) damage from silver weapons.

Special: You can only take this feat at 1st level.

Improved Lycanthropy [Racial]
Prerequisite: Lycanthrope's Brand
You gain additional bonuses while in hybrid form. Let's say, bats get good 50' good mobility flight, bears get large size, crabs get medium fortification, and so on and so forth. Maybe some stat bonuses on the side.

Eh, it's a thought.
Quoward
12-02-07, 02:56 AM I am the DM & Savage is fine.

He is trying to homebrew a +4 LA for a Werebear

Any suggestions?

Well, I already linked to the savage progression, if he only wants LA +4, then only take 4 levels of the savage progression. One question is whether he wants to be able to wield weapons and wear armor easily in bear form or not. I mean that is the only real difference between hybrid form and pure animal form for a werebear. Basically if he doesn't mind not having easy access to equipment in bear form, then this is a good way to go:

ELC 4 Werebear
HD: +3d8
Shapechanger subtype
Natural armor +2
Wisdom +2
Low-light Vision
Bonus feat: Run
Able to change into a bear at will and back as a standard action as a normal werebear.
Level adjustment: +1 (Totaling an ELC of +4 when added to HD)

Class skills for hitdice: Control Shape, Listen, Spot, and Swim.
2+int mod per level (4 times as much first level)

Bonuses in bear form:
40 ft movement (Total)
Large size (-1 to attack and AC, -4 to hide checks)
Strength +6
Dexterity +2
Constitution +4
Natural Armor +2 (Stacks with the other +2)
Has a bite attack that deals 1d8 damage
Gets a +4 racial bonus on swim checks
Gains scent extraordinary special ability

That's all added on top of a base race, probably human, though any medium sized humaniod race would work. Is that what you wanted? It's not exactly homebrew, but when soemthing is already in the rules, even if it is hidden deep within the wizards archives, why bother making it from scratch?
Essex
12-02-07, 06:34 PM The Savage Progression article is based upon a natural lycanthrope brown bear. That makes it a 9 level class (6 HD + 3 LA). If you want to lower that significantly, then use an infected black bear form. That is only a 5 level class (3 HD + 2 LA).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
houkama 12-02-07, 01:01 AM	I need to bring the LA of a natural werebear down to +2 ECL. Any ideas for nerfing this?
IdleAltruism 12-02-07, 01:21 AM	Well...werebear is an ECL of 9....starting character level would be 10 Shrinking that down is pretty much impossible. You could use the savage progression. IE play it from level 1-9. Alternatively you could take away the stat modifiers, special qualities, special attacks, and size variantion while shapechanging. Then give him a bonus feat at first level, 4 bonus skill points at first level, and 1 bonus skill point per level. Then call it a werebear man(I'm thinking grizzly adams). Maybe take levels into bear warrior(basically same effect). Or be a barbarian and when you get angry you grow hairier instead of green. Lycanthropes have to many bonuses to effectively shrink down that low. Maybe use a shifter with barbarian levels with totem of the bear? Improved grab is always fun.
heavenisme 12-02-07, 01:44 AM	He needs to bring it down to LA +4 is what he's trying to say... Suggestions?
Quoward 12-02-07, 01:50 AM	You could use the savage progression. IE play it from level 1-9. To expand on that for houkama, I went to find the link to the savage progression: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031114a Hopefully one doesn't have to take all the levels in it, hence you'd be able to just take some and still manage whatever build required you to reduce it. Biggest problem would be convincing a DM to allow a savage progression really. EDIT: It's not the first savage progression on that page, so you'll need to scroll down.
heavenisme 12-02-07, 02:08 AM	I am the DM & Savage is fine. He is trying to homebrew a +4 LA for a Werebear Any suggestions?
Finfreeze 12-02-07, 02:12 AM	Well, you could make the transformation to bear form(s) temporary. The reason why lycanthropes take a huge ECL hit is that they can stay in their beefy animal or hybrid forms all day long. I made a race that basically handled this with a power point system. Pretty rough, but it gets the job done. RAVENMAN Medium size. Humanoid (beastman) Base land speed 30'. Fly speed 30' (average maneuverability). Low-Light Vision. Naturally Psionic: A ravenman gains +1 Power Point at first level and +1 PP every even level thereafter. +4 racial bonus on sleight of hand checks. +2 racial bonus on listen and spot checks. Bonus Power Known: Raven Morph. A ravenman's manifester level for the purposes of this power is equal to its character level. Talons: A ravenman can choose to deal piercing or slashing damage with its unarmed strikes instead of its usual bludgeoning damage. This ability does not confer proficiency with unarmed strikes. A ravenman's unarmed strikes count as claw or talon attacks for the purposes of diving. Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any. Favored Class: Any. NEW POWER: Raven Morph L1 blahblahblah Manifesting Time: Move Action Target: Self Duration: 2 rounds Your body transforms into that of a giant raven. In raven form, you gain a +4 transformation bonus to Strength and Dexterity. In addition, you gain a +20' transformation bonus to your flight speed and your mobility increases by one step. All equipment melds with your body, but does not become unusable (because that would be a total pain to bother with, especially with wondrous items and rings). Ravens do not have any hands with which to use most weapons, but they can still use melded or worn gauntlets just fine. You can remain in raven form once the power has ended, but there are consequences. On the round after the spell's duration has ended, you can use a move action to revert to your normal form and suffer no additional consequences. If you do not, you take 1d8 cumulative damage at the end of the round every round until you revert. You may prematurely end this power and revert to humanoid form by using a move action. Augment: You can augment this power in this following ways: 1. Per +4 PP: +2 Str and Dex. 2. Per +4 PP: +20' flight speed, perfect mobility. 3. +6 PP: Swift Action to change to raven form and back to humanoid form. 4. +6 PP: Your size increases by one step. In addition, every PP spent to achieve the listed effects also increases the duration by 2 rounds. Special: This power is exclusive to ravenmen. All ravenmen know this ability. It cannot be learned by any other means. Should a ravenman be reincarnated into another race, it loses this power until it becomes a ravenman again. Certainly, there are other ways to make it work. Let's say...make it a L1 feat. Lycanthrope's Brand [Racial] You are a natural lycanthrope. Once per day per 4 character levels you may assume a half-animal, half-human form as a standard action. In hybrid form you gain the following adjustments and abilities depending on type of animal your lycanthropy is based on. This ability lasts 4 rounds + your new constitution modifier. Doing this on the fly here... Bear: +4 Str, +2 Con, Scent Wolf: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, Scent Tiger: +4 Str, +2 Dex, Scent Walrus: +2 Str, +4 Con, Swim 30' Crab: +4 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, Land Speed -10', Swim 20', Light Fortification Bat: +2 Dex, Fly 30' (average), Blindsight 30' In addition, you take an additional 1d6*(the weapon's enhancement bonus+1) damage from silver weapons. Special: You can only take this feat at 1st level. Improved Lycanthropy [Racial] Prerequisite: Lycanthrope's Brand You gain additional bonuses while in hybrid form. Let's say, bats get good 50' good mobility flight, bears get large size, crabs get medium fortification, and so on and so forth. Maybe some stat bonuses on the side. Eh, it's a thought.
Quoward 12-02-07, 02:56 AM	I am the DM & Savage is fine. He is trying to homebrew a +4 LA for a Werebear Any suggestions? Well, I already linked to the savage progression, if he only wants LA +4, then only take 4 levels of the savage progression. One question is whether he wants to be able to wield weapons and wear armor easily in bear form or not. I mean that is the only real difference between hybrid form and pure animal form for a werebear. Basically if he doesn't mind not having easy access to equipment in bear form, then this is a good way to go: ELC 4 Werebear HD: +3d8 Shapechanger subtype Natural armor +2 Wisdom +2 Low-light Vision Bonus feat: Run Able to change into a bear at will and back as a standard action as a normal werebear. Level adjustment: +1 (Totaling an ELC of +4 when added to HD) Class skills for hitdice: Control Shape, Listen, Spot, and Swim. 2+int mod per level (4 times as much first level) Bonuses in bear form: 40 ft movement (Total) Large size (-1 to attack and AC, -4 to hide checks) Strength +6 Dexterity +2 Constitution +4 Natural Armor +2 (Stacks with the other +2) Has a bite attack that deals 1d8 damage Gets a +4 racial bonus on swim checks Gains scent extraordinary special ability That's all added on top of a base race, probably human, though any medium sized humaniod race would work. Is that what you wanted? It's not exactly homebrew, but when soemthing is already in the rules, even if it is hidden deep within the wizards archives, why bother making it from scratch?
Essex 12-02-07, 06:34 PM	The Savage Progression article is based upon a natural lycanthrope brown bear. That makes it a 9 level class (6 HD + 3 LA). If you want to lower that significantly, then use an infected black bear form. That is only a 5 level class (3 HD + 2 LA).