Post/Author/DateTime	Post
n0rad 03-25-08, 12:24 PM	So in our campaign we had to reincarnate someone and then were reincarnated as a lizardfolk. Now a problem we have is that once winter comes he will go into hibernation because he is coldblooded. We cant just kill him and then reincarnate him again because our dm put a 10% experience penalty for purposeful kills to prevent rerolling for best race. Does anyone know how we could avoid the hibernation? A skill/item/feat would be great. (I hope this is the right section)
ArochanoX 03-25-08, 01:34 PM	Technically speaking, dnd lizardfolk are not coldblooded (or warmblooded). They do not enter hibernation during winter. Atleast not as per the rules. So your lizardfolk fellow will not hibernate. If you want to be biologically more exact, a spell of endure elements should do the trick. A ring of such a spell (that can be used only to resist hibernation) shouldn't cost more than 500gp.
n0rad 03-25-08, 03:43 PM	That actually makes sense. The reason the guy died was because he wasnt being a team player so it makes sense that our dm would make it up. Great I'll let my buddy know. Thanks a lot.
Lord_Gix 03-25-08, 04:33 PM	That actually makes sense. The reason the guy died was because he wasnt being a team player so it makes sense that our dm would make it up. Great I'll let my buddy know. Thanks a lot. He might not have made it up, he might just not have known. I mean, when I can't find something in a book I go to logic, which means that lizardfolk should hibernate. Alternately, he might have just decided that what makes sense is more important than what the monster manual says. So your dm might make the rule that your friend will need to hibernate or find a way around it. The dm makes the rules after all. In short, I'd just find a ring of endure elements rather than trying to argue the rules with the dm.
Kursk 03-25-08, 04:41 PM	Technically speaking, dnd lizardfolk are not coldblooded (or warmblooded). Really? Reptiles aren't coldblooded? Which rule book is that in? If they aren't warmblooded either then they have no blood?
Krusk 03-25-08, 04:50 PM	Really? Reptiles aren't coldblooded? Which rule book is that in? If they aren't warmblooded either then they have no blood? I doubt any of the books mention what is and is not warm or cold blooded. I also doubt they define what exactly happens to cold and warm blooded creatures during each season.
Chaosepoch 03-25-08, 05:07 PM	I doubt any of the books mention what is and is not warm or cold blooded. I also doubt they define what exactly happens to cold and warm blooded creatures during each season. Reptilian Subtype These creatures are scaly and usually coldblooded. The reptilian subtype is only used to describe a set of humanoid races, not all animals and monsters that are truly reptiles. Gotta say I would go with the endure elements spell.
Neutronium_Dragon 03-25-08, 07:10 PM	Note that the (Reptilian) subtype does not specify any inherent game effects from being cold-blooded, including no requirement that they hibernate. Imposing such on the basis of some notion of "realism" (and ignoring how "unrealistic" cold-blooded lizardfolk are to begin with) is effectively taking a nerf-bat to the character for no good reason.
Kursk 03-25-08, 07:28 PM	Note that the (Reptilian) subtype does not specify any inherent game effects from being cold-blooded, including no requirement that they hibernate. Imposing such on the basis of some notion of "realism" (and ignoring how "unrealistic" cold-blooded lizardfolk are to begin with) is effectively taking a nerf-bat to the character for no good reason. I'm sure they mentioned coldblooded because it has no possible meaning... :rolleyes: The books don't mention many things that are common sense, the authors assume a certain level of common sense. If you want everything spelled out the DMG would be larger than a set of encyclopedias.
Eldritch_Lord 03-25-08, 07:36 PM	I'm sure they mentioned coldblooded because it has no possible meaning... :rolleyes: The books don't mention many things that are common sense, the authors assume a certain level of common sense. If you want everything spelled out the DMG would be larger than a set of encyclopedias. What temperature do they begin hibernation? Are there progressive slowing effects as temperature drops? Does this modify CR in a cold environment? These questions, and more, should have been covered if they were intended to hibernate. Another example of fluff not following crunch is aberrations: Aberrations are said to have an "alien mindset" but most don't have one of those fancy "Mind scan it and go insane" abilities. In the same way, lizardfolk shouldn't be penalized with hibernation, because it's solely descriptive.
ciaran 03-25-08, 08:59 PM	Endure Elements is a 1st level cleric spell that lasts 24 hours.
Kursk 03-26-08, 10:22 AM	What temperature do they begin hibernation? Are there progressive slowing effects as temperature drops? Does this modify CR in a cold environment? These questions, and more, should have been covered if they were intended to hibernate. Another example of fluff not following crunch is aberrations: Aberrations are said to have an "alien mindset" but most don't have one of those fancy "Mind scan it and go insane" abilities. In the same way, lizardfolk shouldn't be penalized with hibernation, because it's solely descriptive. I never said hibernate. Next.
Neutronium_Dragon 03-26-08, 10:55 AM	> I never said hibernate. Next. You did claim that the mention of being cold-blooded is supposed to have a meaning - implying in-game impact. Except that it's not. Descriptive text with no rules text listed for it has no game impact whatsoever - including hibernation in the case of something descriptively cold-blooded.
Kursk 03-26-08, 11:08 AM	> Except that it's not. Descriptive text with no rules text listed for it has no game impact whatsoever - including hibernation in the case of something descriptively cold-blooded. Biological traits have in game impact in my campaign. A race that is described as having a fat layer will survive longer in cold water than average, etc. If someone has written up their character as being skinny as a rail they might be able to slip through a smaller passage than normal. If a player says they are playing a coldblooded race then they'll move fast when warm and slower when cold. If they are 3' tall they can't reach what's on the top shelf. My players rely on being able to use their common sense to survive and figure out the world. Some DMs don't like to use common sense in their world. Nothing wrong with that. It's just a preference like psionics.
feistykobold 03-26-08, 12:56 PM	In Races of the Dragon in the entry for kobolds it has the rules for cold blooded humanoids. I think a cold blooded humanoid who is exposed to temperatures of 40 degrees or above for 24 hours can go for 3 days without eating anything. On the other hand, if they are exposed to temperatures below 40 degrees for more than three days, they have to eat 3 times as much food as normal. I think thats how it goes at least, I dont have teh book on me at the moment.
Eldritch_Lord 03-26-08, 06:11 PM	I never said hibernate. Next. That was the topic at hand, so that's the logical conclusion to draw. Regarding your houserules about bio descriptions--that's great, and I often do things like that too, but hibernation takes a character out of the action for months in-game, and that's a lizardfolk of a different color. The issue at hand was simply whether there was anything in the (Reptilian) subtype covering hibernation, and the answer seems to be "no." In Races of the Dragon in the entry for kobolds it has the rules for cold blooded humanoids. I think a cold blooded humanoid who is exposed to temperatures of 40 degrees or above for 24 hours can go for 3 days without eating anything. On the other hand, if they are exposed to temperatures below 40 degrees for more than three days, they have to eat 3 times as much food as normal. I think thats how it goes at least, I dont have teh book on me at the moment. Interesting. Would that be a (Cold-blooded) subtype or something, or are they generic rules for any creature described as being cold-blooded?
Kursk 03-26-08, 06:33 PM	Interesting. Would that be a (Cold-blooded) subtype or something, or are they generic rules for any creature described as being cold-blooded? It wouldn't be in there as there is no in game effect for coldblooded per the RAW.
n0rad 03-26-08, 08:41 PM	Not to ruin this interesting conversation but I talked to my DM and he is going on the basis that it makes sense in reality that a cold-blooded race would go into hibernation in the winter. I asked him about Endure Elements and he said that the spell only gets rid of the negative affects caused by extreme temperatures (aka damage or slowing). The environment would still be cold but not "as" cold so hibernation would still be in affect. I mentioned the "ring of anti-hibernation" and he liked it, then i said it should cost 500gp and he didn't like it lol. He is going to decide on a price during the next meeting and he said it would be probably be 2.5k and at the most 5k depending on the city. Does this sound reasonable? In my opinion this would literally nerf any lizardfolk who was already wearing two dependent rings.
Eldritch_Lord 03-26-08, 10:56 PM	It wouldn't be in there as there is no in game effect for coldblooded per the RAW. Fiestykobold just said there's something in Races of the Dragon, and that's what I was referring to; I know there's nothing about it in the MM or lizardfolk entry. Does this sound reasonable? Not at all. If he doesn't let endure elements work (which he should) and still decides you have to deal with hibernation (which he shouldn't), a slotted item for 2.5k at least is much too much. I'd say--at the very most--a non-slotted item (ioun stone, figurine, etc.) worth a few hundred gp.
StruckingFuggle 03-26-08, 11:02 PM	That actually makes sense. The reason the guy died was because he wasnt being a team player so it makes sense that our dm would make it up. Great I'll let my buddy know. Thanks a lot. So wait, let me get this straight. To penalize the player for not being a team player, he's making it harder for him to be a part of the team? ... >_>
Artector 03-26-08, 11:22 PM	By the Estimating Table an item of Endure Elements should cost 1000 gp. (1(spell level)x1(caster level)x2000(base adjustment)/2(24 or more hour duration)=1000gp) Mind you, the Endure Elements spell specifically calls out that the character can exist comfortably between -50 and 140 degrees. I wouldn't put Hibernation under "Exist comfortably", so thus he wouldn't need to hibernate. And I agree with StruckingFuggle.
ArochanoX 03-27-08, 03:32 AM	By the Estimating Table an item of Endure Elements should cost 1000 gp. I did the same too, but restricted it to only be able to resist hibernation so I estimated the price a little lower than that (500gp as per second post). Higher level spells of endure elements are resist energy and protection from energy (lvl 2 and 3) which actually grant you ability to absorb some amounts of energy damage. Hibernation isn't that. I think you (and your DM) should check out Frostburn (especially pages 9-10) that explain cold dangers and how to protect oneself from it. In Races of the Dragon pg. 39 it says that cold-blooded humanoids merely have to eat more when it is cold. No more. (And actually there's no certain rules text to say that lizardfolk are cold-blooded. MM says that reptiles are *usually* cold-blooded but not always.) I really think that the lizardfolk shouldn't hibernate for balance issues. Especially if a lizardfolk player would have to pay several thousand gold pieces (worth from +1 weapon enhancement to +2 armor enhancement) and thus lag behind other players in power. Also the character was reincarnated to a lizardfolk (lizardfolk has some racial hit dice and level adjustment). Did the character's power increase? Did he automatically gain 2 hit dice and +1 LA? If so, the item's gold piece value seems more reasonable as a creature that is effectively 3 levels higher than the rest of the party is troublesome. Atleast for the DM. And so the DM tries to balance things out by taking some gps from the said lizardfolk character.
n0rad 03-28-08, 08:26 AM	So wait, let me get this straight. To penalize the player for not being a team player, he's making it harder for him to be a part of the team? Also the character was reincarnated to a lizardfolk (lizardfolk has some racial hit dice and level adjustment). Did the character's power increase? Did he automatically gain 2 hit dice and +1 LA? If so, the item's gold piece value seems more reasonable as a creature that is effectively 3 levels higher than the rest of the party is troublesome. Atleast for the DM. And so the DM tries to balance things out by taking some gps from the said lizardfolk character. Lol you guys will actually get a laugh out of this. When you are reincarnated you are dropped down a level and only gain the saving throw modifiers. The other things you only get when you start off as that race. I will have to argue that endure elements some more with my DM because you guys make a very good point. This whole things actually might be a waste now because the lizardfolk fell about 800ft onto a spiked cave floor and has broken every bone in his body which will take about 8 weeks to repair (were about a week away from winter) so he will be out for a while. Any suggestions on how to repair bones faster? lol EDIT: He was able to survive the fall because he has 100hp and there is a max damage to falling. He got very lucky on the damage rolls.
Krusk 03-28-08, 08:37 AM	A simple cure light wounds should do it. But if your DM is instituting some sort of broken bone rule, you will probably need something like the heal spell or the regenerate spell to fix them. (Sounds to me like your dm does not want you as a lizardman, just roll with it)
ArochanoX 03-28-08, 08:48 AM	Of reincarnation, PHB pg 270. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores. The subject’s level (or Hit Dice) is reduced by 1. The reincarnated creature gains all abilities associated with its new form, including forms of movement and speeds, natural armor, natural attacks, extraordinary abilities, and the like, but it doesn’t automatically speak the language of the new form. Refer to the Monster Manual for details. Accoring to the Table on PHB pg 270, Lizardfolk has ability score modifiers of +2 Str, +2 Con. According to the MM pg 169, lizardfolk has following movement and speeds, natural armor, natural attacks, extraordinary abilities, and the like: Hold Breath: A lizardfolk can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to four times its Constitution score before it risks drowning (see page 304 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide). Skills: Because of their tails, lizardfolk have a +4 racial bonus on Jump, Swim, and Balance checks. The skill modifiers given in the statistics block include a –2 armor check penalty (–4 on Swim checks) for carrying a heavy shield. +5 natural armor bonus. Natural Weapons: 2 claws (1d4) and bite (1d4). Yes, I was mistaken, the reincarnated creature's hit dice amound won't change. And note that the reincarnated lizardfolk won't gain saving throw modifiers (except from the +2 Con increase). And the bone repair stuff. Cure light wounds, and even resting the damage off (24h aided full rest gives hit points at the rate of 4 hit points per day, so it's 25 full days (roughly 3 and a half weeks) for a full recovery without any magical aid (requires DC 15 heal checks). Your DM invents house rules to prevent one of your players to play a lizardfolk. We here on the boards can only give you citations of a rules text or some other ideas. If the problem persists, I suggest the same as Kursk: Roll with it.
ciaran 03-28-08, 05:48 PM	Most certainly a Cloak of Resist Elements would be the ideal body slot.