Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tsuul 08-06-07, 01:50 PM	After bouncing around the hypertext d20 site and building a 20 level progression, I came to the realization that LA may not be included in the calculation for figuring when a character begins epic levels. Can anyone point me to a rule that confirms or dismisses this idea? Thanks in advance,
zook1shoe666 08-06-07, 02:04 PM	anything with an ECL of 21 or higher is considered epic level. while ECLs 1-20 are non-epic.
Witch 08-06-07, 02:07 PM	You need 21 hit dice in order to qualify for epic feats, epic attack bonus and epic saves.
zook1shoe666 08-06-07, 02:23 PM	You need 21 hit dice in order to qualify for epic feats, epic attack bonus and epic saves. yeah... thats what i meant ;). you know... one of those days.
Kesthol 08-06-07, 07:27 PM	So epic doesn't hit until HD 21?? That's gonna not be nice when I (character in sig) have an ECL 20 character (17 HD, maybe even 15). :( Whereas the bleeping human wizard 20 would be epic for 3 (or 5! :eek:) levels "ahead" of me. To put it bluntly I need some boost at "non-epic" ECLs (21-23 or 25) to keep my character alive and happy...
Khatoblepas 08-06-07, 09:25 PM	I'm afraid that's how it works - monster races are supposed to be hosed compared to the PHB races. :( However, Savage Species states that ECL20 is epic. Which is odd. And another source says that you need 20 class levels, since racial HD don't apply to epic progression (so you could have a BAB of 20+ before you have to add epic BAB and saves). It's fuzzy.
runestar 08-06-07, 10:09 PM	Actually, according to the ELH, you can start taking epic feats when your ECL is 21 or higher, meaning that a half-dragon fighter could take an epic feat with the feat he gets at 18th lv, assuming he meets all other prereqs. Epic bab/saves start kicking in when your class lvs, or racial HD + class lvs equal 21 or more.:) I admit that this is a serious point of contention as wotc does not seem to follow a single unifying mechanic when fleshing out epic characters, and even the FAQ has 2 contradictory entries regarding this...:(
Tsuul 08-07-07, 12:57 AM	Hmmm, so the rules are "pick one". Great.:mad: I really got excited that I might be able to squeeze 3 more levels into a build. Oh well. I'll see if I can get my hands on ELH and SS to take a first hand look. Thanks for the info. Please share anything else that comes to mind.
ArochanoX 08-07-07, 01:13 AM	Originally posted by Jaerom Darkwind: When is my character considered epic? Okay, this is a complicated question. Being epic comes in stages, like so: * When your ECL reaches 21, you begin using epic experience tables and epic wealth guidelines. * When you have 21 total HD, you may begin gaining epic feats. * When you have 21 character levels, you begin using the epic base attack bonus and save progressions. Note that racial HD are not included in this calculation--they do not use epic attack and save progressions. * When you have 21 levels in a particular class, you begin using the appropriate epic class progression. * When you have 20 total HD, including 10 levels in a prestige class, you may begin gaining epic levels in that prestige class. When the Epic Level Handbook makes statements like "[class] does not [class ability] after 20th level," they are referring to your 20th class level, not your 20th character level. Specific examples of this are spells per day for spellcasters, and unarmed damage for monks. I think that answers your question.