Would this warrant LA? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Would this warrant LA? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Melayl
04-04-07, 10:11 PM This is a new race I've toyed with, and I have no idea how to determine possible LA for the race (or for the template, if I choose to use it that way). Help would be appreciated.

Flametouched/Frosttouched

As a race, Touched are physically nearly identical to humans. Some might have an odd color to hair or eye that identifies them. Lifespan is equal to that of a human, as well. They do not gain any of the racial abilities of humans, instead gaining the abilities listed below.

Favored Class: You can, of course, insert your own fluff here, but as I see it:
If Touched are treated as honored and desireable members of society, Fighter or Barbarian.
If they are treated as outcasts, and reviled or hunted down, Rogue.

Abilities
I'll state the obvious here: Flame/fire apply to Flametouched, Frost/cold apply to Frosttouched.

Humanoid Touched are of the humanoid type.

Flame/Frost strike (su): ray, 15’ range, 1d2 dam. Once per round (regardless of iterative attacks). Damage increases with level and/or feats.

Lev 1 3 6 9 12 15 18
Dam 1d2 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 1d12 2d8 (max)

Fire/Cold Resistance (su): CON bonus +1/2 levels (+CON bonus/feat)

Fire/Cold Subtype (su): Not the full subtype. They gain resistance to their element as shown above, and take +50% damage from their opposite (successful or failed save).

Racial Feats (su): 1 at 1st +1 at 7th, 14th, and 20th. Only spend on racial abilities, cannot use class feats to gain racial abilities.

The Racial Feats

Improved strike (touched): increase strike damage 1 step as listed under strike (counts as 3 levels higher for strike dam). May take multiple times.

Imbue weapon (touched): add strike dam to 1 melee weapon (inc. Unarmed) at a time. Applies to every iterative attack made with that weapon. May take twice for 2 weapons at once.

Improved resistance (touched): add CON bonus to energy resistance

Flame/Frost shield (touched): +2 (deflection) bonus to AC, 1 hpd to touch, Energy Resistance = CON bonus vs opposite energy type. Use minutes = level/day, broken into any number of uses. Free action?

Any other racial feat ideas would be appreciated as well.

I'd appreciate hearing the community's thoughts on this.
Tolby
04-04-07, 10:29 PM I would say yes that it would. 5 free feats is nothing to sneeze at. I would look at something from UA to see about a progression race
Thomar_of_Uointer
04-04-07, 10:44 PM Both the Fire and Cold subtypes grant total immunity to an energy type and a vulnerability.

Free feats at intervals and a natural ranged attack definitely deserve a level adjustment.

The best way to keep the energy ray from being used in a full attack is to make it a standard action.
Melayl
04-05-07, 01:54 PM Both the Fire and Cold subtypes grant total immunity to an energy type and a vulnerability.

Free feats at intervals and a natural ranged attack definitely deserve a level adjustment.

The best way to keep the energy ray from being used in a full attack is to make it a standard action.

Actually, the race doesn't get total immunity. They get a resistance equal Con bonus +1/2 level. They do get the vulnerability.

The ray can only be used once per round, so it could be used as a part of a full attack, but only once in that full attack.

I appreciate the feedback from both of you. However, what LA would be appropriate?
Peregrine_Wolf
04-05-07, 05:02 PM I think LA+2 or maybe LA+3 at most, but I'm not the expert at LA's...
Melpomene
04-05-07, 05:21 PM Natural attack, energy resistance, even stat mods, six bonus feats, energy weakness. Plus, you never mentioned the type (humanoid, outsider, elemental etc.)

That's... +3-4 LA. One more if they're non-humanoid.

However, if you made the energy ray 1/day, gave them a static resistance to element (say, 5), a lesser form of elemental weakness, no bonus feats but access to the racial feats, and kept them humanoid, then the LA would be +0.
Thomar_of_Uointer
04-05-07, 05:37 PM Actually, the race doesn't get total immunity. They get a resistance equal Con bonus +1/2 level. They do get the vulnerability.

The ray can only be used once per round, so it could be used as a part of a full attack, but only once in that full attack.

I appreciate the feedback from both of you. However, what LA would be appropriate?

If you are not using the standard traits, then please describe the subtype in full. Note that they do not get immunity, but resistance.

I can see why you'd want the ray to be part of a full attack, but that does make it more powerful.

With the altered subtypes in mind, I'd say that the bonus feats are the biggest contributing factor. They're LA +1. Without the bonus feats, they're LA +0.
WinterPsionic
04-05-07, 06:01 PM Actually, the race doesn't get total immunity. They get a resistance equal Con bonus +1/2 level. They do get the vulnerability.

Fire/Cold Subtype (su): self explanatory

...so how is that self explanatory? That's only 1/2 the subtype...
Melayl
04-06-07, 12:27 PM ...so how is that self explanatory? That's only 1/2 the subtype...

My aplogies -- I had typed that in my original notes to myself, and forgotten to change them. I will do so now.

I'm seeing a range of LA suggestions. I don't have proper time to review all the ideas at the moment, but I will try to do so and post any changes.

Thanks, all.
Thomar_of_Uointer
04-06-07, 01:06 PM Humanoid Touched are of the humanoid type.
Flame/Frost strike (su): ray, 15’ range, 1d2 dam. Once per round (regardless of iterative attacks). Damage increases with level and/or feats.
Lev 1 3 6 9 12 15 18
Dam 1d2 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 1d12 2d8 (max)
Fire/Cold Resistance (su): CON bonus +1/2 levels (+CON bonus/feat)
Fire/Cold Subtype (su): Not the full subtype. They gain resistance to their element as shown above, ad take +50% damage from their opposite (successful or failed save).
Racial Feats (su): 1 at 1st +1 at 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th. Only spend on racial abilities, cannot use class feats to gain racial abilities.

Okay, without the free racial feats this would be a decent LA +0. The ranged attack is very short, only a little better than a polearm, and its damage doesn't progress in any significant way that makes it more than a secondary weapon. The racial feats make it LA +1.

Some of those racial feats are very powerful, but I don't quite understand all of them. What's "hpd"?
Pyke_Moonshadow
04-06-07, 01:12 PM I would check on Yaba's thread to see what they come up with. His work has been pretty solid.
Melayl
04-06-07, 02:02 PM Ok, so I can't update the original at the moment -- computer glitches.

Okay, without the free racial feats this would be a decent LA +0. The ranged attack is very short, only a little better than a polearm, and its damage doesn't progress in any significant way that makes it more than a secondary weapon. The racial feats make it LA +1.

Some of those racial feats are very powerful, but I don't quite understand all of them. What's "hpd"?

hpd = hit point damage -- another one of my notes to myself that didn't get changed when I posted it. Sorry.

Do you think it would warrant LA if you had the options to take the racial feats with class feat slots, and gained no free racial feat slots?

I looked at Yaba's stuff a little, but all I found on his link was tables, with no explaination on how to use them.
SokenzanMarauder
04-06-07, 02:09 PM I'd say if you drop the five feats it's a pretty solid LA+1 but with them I'd put it at LA+3 minimum. Five feats, even if they are racial feats, is one helluva bonus.

-Gene
Jaxgaret
04-06-07, 02:26 PM This is either a strong LA+0 or weak LA+1 race without the racial feats.

Each of the racial feats is quite powerful:

Imbue Weapon = scaling damage that eventually adds +7 per attack.

Improved Resistance is worth at least a +1 LA by itself just by being a scaling bonus to Energy Resistance.

Energy Shield is equivalent to a Quickened 3rd-level SLA usable multiple times per day, not to mention that it partially negates the Energytouched's racial energy vulnerability.

I would say each racial feat is worth a point of LA or more. There are 4 of them, but they are spaced out over 20 levels, so I would say that it is a total +3-4 LA race.
Tichondrus
04-06-07, 02:33 PM I'd say an LA+2
It's pretty balanced with a drow

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Melayl 04-04-07, 10:11 PM	This is a new race I've toyed with, and I have no idea how to determine possible LA for the race (or for the template, if I choose to use it that way). Help would be appreciated. Flametouched/Frosttouched As a race, Touched are physically nearly identical to humans. Some might have an odd color to hair or eye that identifies them. Lifespan is equal to that of a human, as well. They do not gain any of the racial abilities of humans, instead gaining the abilities listed below. Favored Class: You can, of course, insert your own fluff here, but as I see it: If Touched are treated as honored and desireable members of society, Fighter or Barbarian. If they are treated as outcasts, and reviled or hunted down, Rogue. Abilities I'll state the obvious here: Flame/fire apply to Flametouched, Frost/cold apply to Frosttouched. Humanoid Touched are of the humanoid type. Flame/Frost strike (su): ray, 15’ range, 1d2 dam. Once per round (regardless of iterative attacks). Damage increases with level and/or feats. Lev 1 3 6 9 12 15 18 Dam 1d2 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 1d12 2d8 (max) Fire/Cold Resistance (su): CON bonus +1/2 levels (+CON bonus/feat) Fire/Cold Subtype (su): Not the full subtype. They gain resistance to their element as shown above, and take +50% damage from their opposite (successful or failed save). Racial Feats (su): 1 at 1st +1 at 7th, 14th, and 20th. Only spend on racial abilities, cannot use class feats to gain racial abilities. The Racial Feats Improved strike (touched): increase strike damage 1 step as listed under strike (counts as 3 levels higher for strike dam). May take multiple times. Imbue weapon (touched): add strike dam to 1 melee weapon (inc. Unarmed) at a time. Applies to every iterative attack made with that weapon. May take twice for 2 weapons at once. Improved resistance (touched): add CON bonus to energy resistance Flame/Frost shield (touched): +2 (deflection) bonus to AC, 1 hpd to touch, Energy Resistance = CON bonus vs opposite energy type. Use minutes = level/day, broken into any number of uses. Free action? Any other racial feat ideas would be appreciated as well. I'd appreciate hearing the community's thoughts on this.
Tolby 04-04-07, 10:29 PM	I would say yes that it would. 5 free feats is nothing to sneeze at. I would look at something from UA to see about a progression race
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-04-07, 10:44 PM	Both the Fire and Cold subtypes grant total immunity to an energy type and a vulnerability. Free feats at intervals and a natural ranged attack definitely deserve a level adjustment. The best way to keep the energy ray from being used in a full attack is to make it a standard action.
Melayl 04-05-07, 01:54 PM	Both the Fire and Cold subtypes grant total immunity to an energy type and a vulnerability. Free feats at intervals and a natural ranged attack definitely deserve a level adjustment. The best way to keep the energy ray from being used in a full attack is to make it a standard action. Actually, the race doesn't get total immunity. They get a resistance equal Con bonus +1/2 level. They do get the vulnerability. The ray can only be used once per round, so it could be used as a part of a full attack, but only once in that full attack. I appreciate the feedback from both of you. However, what LA would be appropriate?
Peregrine_Wolf 04-05-07, 05:02 PM	I think LA+2 or maybe LA+3 at most, but I'm not the expert at LA's...
Melpomene 04-05-07, 05:21 PM	Natural attack, energy resistance, even stat mods, six bonus feats, energy weakness. Plus, you never mentioned the type (humanoid, outsider, elemental etc.) That's... +3-4 LA. One more if they're non-humanoid. However, if you made the energy ray 1/day, gave them a static resistance to element (say, 5), a lesser form of elemental weakness, no bonus feats but access to the racial feats, and kept them humanoid, then the LA would be +0.
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-05-07, 05:37 PM	Actually, the race doesn't get total immunity. They get a resistance equal Con bonus +1/2 level. They do get the vulnerability. The ray can only be used once per round, so it could be used as a part of a full attack, but only once in that full attack. I appreciate the feedback from both of you. However, what LA would be appropriate? If you are not using the standard traits, then please describe the subtype in full. Note that they do not get immunity, but resistance. I can see why you'd want the ray to be part of a full attack, but that does make it more powerful. With the altered subtypes in mind, I'd say that the bonus feats are the biggest contributing factor. They're LA +1. Without the bonus feats, they're LA +0.
WinterPsionic 04-05-07, 06:01 PM	Actually, the race doesn't get total immunity. They get a resistance equal Con bonus +1/2 level. They do get the vulnerability. Fire/Cold Subtype (su): self explanatory ...so how is that self explanatory? That's only 1/2 the subtype...
Melayl 04-06-07, 12:27 PM	...so how is that self explanatory? That's only 1/2 the subtype... My aplogies -- I had typed that in my original notes to myself, and forgotten to change them. I will do so now. I'm seeing a range of LA suggestions. I don't have proper time to review all the ideas at the moment, but I will try to do so and post any changes. Thanks, all.
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-06-07, 01:06 PM	Humanoid Touched are of the humanoid type. Flame/Frost strike (su): ray, 15’ range, 1d2 dam. Once per round (regardless of iterative attacks). Damage increases with level and/or feats. Lev 1 3 6 9 12 15 18 Dam 1d2 1d4 1d6 1d8 1d10 1d12 2d8 (max) Fire/Cold Resistance (su): CON bonus +1/2 levels (+CON bonus/feat) Fire/Cold Subtype (su): Not the full subtype. They gain resistance to their element as shown above, ad take +50% damage from their opposite (successful or failed save). Racial Feats (su): 1 at 1st +1 at 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th. Only spend on racial abilities, cannot use class feats to gain racial abilities. Okay, without the free racial feats this would be a decent LA +0. The ranged attack is very short, only a little better than a polearm, and its damage doesn't progress in any significant way that makes it more than a secondary weapon. The racial feats make it LA +1. Some of those racial feats are very powerful, but I don't quite understand all of them. What's "hpd"?
Pyke_Moonshadow 04-06-07, 01:12 PM	I would check on Yaba's thread to see what they come up with. His work has been pretty solid.
Melayl 04-06-07, 02:02 PM	Ok, so I can't update the original at the moment -- computer glitches. Okay, without the free racial feats this would be a decent LA +0. The ranged attack is very short, only a little better than a polearm, and its damage doesn't progress in any significant way that makes it more than a secondary weapon. The racial feats make it LA +1. Some of those racial feats are very powerful, but I don't quite understand all of them. What's "hpd"? hpd = hit point damage -- another one of my notes to myself that didn't get changed when I posted it. Sorry. Do you think it would warrant LA if you had the options to take the racial feats with class feat slots, and gained no free racial feat slots? I looked at Yaba's stuff a little, but all I found on his link was tables, with no explaination on how to use them.
SokenzanMarauder 04-06-07, 02:09 PM	I'd say if you drop the five feats it's a pretty solid LA+1 but with them I'd put it at LA+3 minimum. Five feats, even if they are racial feats, is one helluva bonus. -Gene
Jaxgaret 04-06-07, 02:26 PM	This is either a strong LA+0 or weak LA+1 race without the racial feats. Each of the racial feats is quite powerful: Imbue Weapon = scaling damage that eventually adds +7 per attack. Improved Resistance is worth at least a +1 LA by itself just by being a scaling bonus to Energy Resistance. Energy Shield is equivalent to a Quickened 3rd-level SLA usable multiple times per day, not to mention that it partially negates the Energytouched's racial energy vulnerability. I would say each racial feat is worth a point of LA or more. There are 4 of them, but they are spaced out over 20 levels, so I would say that it is a total +3-4 LA race.
Tichondrus 04-06-07, 02:33 PM	I'd say an LA+2 It's pretty balanced with a drow