Ye old bones? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ye old bones? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Majick
06-08-07, 11:31 AM Would a character with the necropolitan template lose physical ability scores from aging?

Or would they stay the same like (i think) undead normally do?

thanks
Sajek
06-08-07, 11:38 AM I don't think this is ever explicitly stated anywhere, but everyone pretty much knows that undead don't age and don't take physical ability score loss (mental I'm not sure about). Same probably goes for necropolitans.
Majick
06-08-07, 11:45 AM See, now this is my thing, i was thinking about making a Human Warlock, Necropolitan template, then Evolved Undead template.

The thing is though i was going to write the backstory that he was only a teenager, 13 in fact, when his powers first manifest in the small farming community he was raised in (yay adopted parents!) so the townsfolk did what any peasants would do in that situation... KILL THE WITCH!

So he got 'dunked' as his torture - drown; your a good soul. Survive; your evil and get burned at the stake

He did die though, technically, but the Warlock energy in him sustained his unlife, and he 'woke up' hours later in a grave 6" under.

But i wanted to started the game with him being the look of a very gaunt and pale teenager, but he's VERY VERY OLD and has lost his mind after wandering for hundreds of years - talks like a grizzled old prospector and calls everyone "sonny jim"

SO... where was I?... oh right, i know you can technically start at any age you want, so would it be legal for him to be like, 150 years old and get the mental boosts for age but then not the physical ones?
Majick
06-08-07, 12:29 PM So... does anyone have a difinitive answer on this? Do undead lose physical ability traits with age and gain mental like usual living folk, or how does it work?

... anyone?
AAB
06-08-07, 12:44 PM i'd say that they don't get ability bonuses from aging, either. something like their undead-ness makes them a little crazy and keeps them from developing.
locustechpriest
06-08-07, 04:35 PM He did die though, technically, but the Warlock energy in him sustained his unlife, and he 'woke up' hours later in a grave 6" under.

Six inches, huh? Lucky guy to have such a shallow grave! =P

I guess I should be helpful. If it isn't explicitly stated, as seems to be the case, then it goes to the realm of house rules and conjecture. I agree with AAB, undead are roughly trapped in a state of stasis, and cannot develop physically, which I see as the reason for all ability modifications (yes, even mental ones). For the same reason, I would deny a lich any ability score increases at their fourth levels.
†Aeolus†
06-08-07, 04:42 PM Depends, I guess. If you and/or your DM think that undead, enchanted bones rot, then I guess losing ability scores is just fair. You know, bones aren't what they used to be after a thousand year journey..

On the other hand, If you think the magic ressurecting him is strong enough to keep that what's left from rotting, then screw age related disadvantages.

Just my 2 piece o' good ole Copper.

(However, I don't know what template you're talking about, since I don't remember seeing your concept in the corebook.. thought of you beeing a simple animated dead..)
Rerecros
06-08-07, 04:45 PM Aging mechanics are stupid, i don't use them.
I'm not going to let someone play a minmaxed venerable spellcaster.

It's silly for a venerable elf to be around lifetimes longer then a venerable human, and for them to receive equal bonuses.

And the idea that you gain mental ability bonues simply by being around long enough is silly, thats what experience is for.

Edit: and undead don't rot, their more then just animated flesh and bones, they are the antithesis of life, they unrot.
†Aeolus†
06-08-07, 04:46 PM Sorry. Blame my Internets for this doublepost..
locustechpriest
06-08-07, 05:14 PM Undead don't rot, their more then just animated flesh and bones, they are the antithesis of life, they unrot.

Please explain? You have my attention.
†Aeolus†
06-08-07, 05:18 PM Edit: and undead don't rot, their more then just animated flesh and bones, they are the antithesis of life, they unrot.

But isn't the antithesis of life death? In my book, to be dead means to die and rot.

Other than that, each DM (and if not him, then the player) should decide individually, how undeads should be treated.
Rerecros
06-08-07, 05:18 PM They have natural healing for crying out loud, they are more then just a magicaly animated and preserved corpse, that would make them constructs.

Edit: in D&D undeath is the antithesis of life, with death being neutral ground.
†Aeolus†
06-08-07, 05:20 PM Trolls have natural healing too, IIRC. You could put a spell on _anything_ to give it regeneration.

That doesn't prove anything for me.

Edit: I think we see and handle this antithesis thing differently. Since undead share at least one sign of being alive with the next living PC (namely movement), they're not the definition of 'the antithesis of life'.

At least, this is how our playgroup handles this subject.
ATroubledMarco
06-08-07, 05:45 PM I rather doubt your DM will let you use the aging rules just to get +6 on all your mental stats as a starting character.

Rulewise, you're in a state of suspension. This is why undead don't eat, sleep, breathe, age, heal naturally (with a few exceptions), etc. In many ways, they are constructs in that respect. The main difference is their reaction to negative and positive energy. The line between undead and construct is a very fine one, with many crossovers.

Going by the idea that undeath is a preservation, a "pause" between life and death, they would not accrue mental bonuses because their physical minds do not develop and grow. They still learn, progress at skills, and other such things, but they do so at the same rate they did when at death. Just as their bodies become no more frail, their minds become no more mature.
Rerecros
06-08-07, 05:52 PM This is why undead don't...heal naturally (with a few exceptions)

Incorrect, the only undead i can think of that don't heal naturally are skellies and zombies.
Grizzled Gryphon
06-08-07, 06:14 PM How do other undead heal?
Rerecros
06-08-07, 06:20 PM This is covered more thoughly in Libris Mortis Page 10.
But any undead with at least one Int heals just like any other creature does.
Though they don't need to sleep, they must rest to gain the benefits of natural healing.
And there is nothing in the rule books that prohibits longterm care from being used on undead.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Majick 06-08-07, 11:31 AM	Would a character with the necropolitan template lose physical ability scores from aging? Or would they stay the same like (i think) undead normally do? thanks
Sajek 06-08-07, 11:38 AM	I don't think this is ever explicitly stated anywhere, but everyone pretty much knows that undead don't age and don't take physical ability score loss (mental I'm not sure about). Same probably goes for necropolitans.
Majick 06-08-07, 11:45 AM	See, now this is my thing, i was thinking about making a Human Warlock, Necropolitan template, then Evolved Undead template. The thing is though i was going to write the backstory that he was only a teenager, 13 in fact, when his powers first manifest in the small farming community he was raised in (yay adopted parents!) so the townsfolk did what any peasants would do in that situation... KILL THE WITCH! So he got 'dunked' as his torture - drown; your a good soul. Survive; your evil and get burned at the stake He did die though, technically, but the Warlock energy in him sustained his unlife, and he 'woke up' hours later in a grave 6" under. But i wanted to started the game with him being the look of a very gaunt and pale teenager, but he's VERY VERY OLD and has lost his mind after wandering for hundreds of years - talks like a grizzled old prospector and calls everyone "sonny jim" SO... where was I?... oh right, i know you can technically start at any age you want, so would it be legal for him to be like, 150 years old and get the mental boosts for age but then not the physical ones?
Majick 06-08-07, 12:29 PM	So... does anyone have a difinitive answer on this? Do undead lose physical ability traits with age and gain mental like usual living folk, or how does it work? ... anyone?
AAB 06-08-07, 12:44 PM	i'd say that they don't get ability bonuses from aging, either. something like their undead-ness makes them a little crazy and keeps them from developing.
locustechpriest 06-08-07, 04:35 PM	He did die though, technically, but the Warlock energy in him sustained his unlife, and he 'woke up' hours later in a grave 6" under. Six inches, huh? Lucky guy to have such a shallow grave! =P I guess I should be helpful. If it isn't explicitly stated, as seems to be the case, then it goes to the realm of house rules and conjecture. I agree with AAB, undead are roughly trapped in a state of stasis, and cannot develop physically, which I see as the reason for all ability modifications (yes, even mental ones). For the same reason, I would deny a lich any ability score increases at their fourth levels.
†Aeolus† 06-08-07, 04:42 PM	Depends, I guess. If you and/or your DM think that undead, enchanted bones rot, then I guess losing ability scores is just fair. You know, bones aren't what they used to be after a thousand year journey.. On the other hand, If you think the magic ressurecting him is strong enough to keep that what's left from rotting, then screw age related disadvantages. Just my 2 piece o' good ole Copper. (However, I don't know what template you're talking about, since I don't remember seeing your concept in the corebook.. thought of you beeing a simple animated dead..)
Rerecros 06-08-07, 04:45 PM	Aging mechanics are stupid, i don't use them. I'm not going to let someone play a minmaxed venerable spellcaster. It's silly for a venerable elf to be around lifetimes longer then a venerable human, and for them to receive equal bonuses. And the idea that you gain mental ability bonues simply by being around long enough is silly, thats what experience is for. Edit: and undead don't rot, their more then just animated flesh and bones, they are the antithesis of life, they unrot.
†Aeolus† 06-08-07, 04:46 PM	Sorry. Blame my Internets for this doublepost..
locustechpriest 06-08-07, 05:14 PM	Undead don't rot, their more then just animated flesh and bones, they are the antithesis of life, they unrot. Please explain? You have my attention.
†Aeolus† 06-08-07, 05:18 PM	Edit: and undead don't rot, their more then just animated flesh and bones, they are the antithesis of life, they unrot. But isn't the antithesis of life death? In my book, to be dead means to die and rot. Other than that, each DM (and if not him, then the player) should decide individually, how undeads should be treated.
Rerecros 06-08-07, 05:18 PM	They have natural healing for crying out loud, they are more then just a magicaly animated and preserved corpse, that would make them constructs. Edit: in D&D undeath is the antithesis of life, with death being neutral ground.
†Aeolus† 06-08-07, 05:20 PM	Trolls have natural healing too, IIRC. You could put a spell on _anything_ to give it regeneration. That doesn't prove anything for me. Edit: I think we see and handle this antithesis thing differently. Since undead share at least one sign of being alive with the next living PC (namely movement), they're not the definition of 'the antithesis of life'. At least, this is how our playgroup handles this subject.
ATroubledMarco 06-08-07, 05:45 PM	I rather doubt your DM will let you use the aging rules just to get +6 on all your mental stats as a starting character. Rulewise, you're in a state of suspension. This is why undead don't eat, sleep, breathe, age, heal naturally (with a few exceptions), etc. In many ways, they are constructs in that respect. The main difference is their reaction to negative and positive energy. The line between undead and construct is a very fine one, with many crossovers. Going by the idea that undeath is a preservation, a "pause" between life and death, they would not accrue mental bonuses because their physical minds do not develop and grow. They still learn, progress at skills, and other such things, but they do so at the same rate they did when at death. Just as their bodies become no more frail, their minds become no more mature.
Rerecros 06-08-07, 05:52 PM	This is why undead don't...heal naturally (with a few exceptions) Incorrect, the only undead i can think of that don't heal naturally are skellies and zombies.
Grizzled Gryphon 06-08-07, 06:14 PM	How do other undead heal?
Rerecros 06-08-07, 06:20 PM	This is covered more thoughly in Libris Mortis Page 10. But any undead with at least one Int heals just like any other creature does. Though they don't need to sleep, they must rest to gain the benefits of natural healing. And there is nothing in the rule books that prohibits longterm care from being used on undead.