(3.5) Speak Language skill [Archive] - Wizards Community

(3.5) Speak Language skill [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bearform
03-18-08, 04:35 PM My question regarding the D&D 3.5 Speak Language skill: Given that this skill doesn't use the traditional rank structure that other 3.5 skills use, is it restricted by the max ranks rule?

In other words if I have a 3rd-level bard for example, can I use skill points to purchase more than six extra languages beyond those I normally get?
larry_the_titan
03-18-08, 05:08 PM Since you aren't gaining ranks in a skill you can go ahead and buy as much stuff as you want but I wouldn't recommend it.
Shadowfax7
03-18-08, 05:59 PM My question regarding the D&D 3.5 Speak Language skill: Given that this skill doesn't use the traditional rank structure that other 3.5 skills use, is it restricted by the max ranks rule?No

In other words if I have a 3rd-level bard for example, can I use skill points to purchase more than six extra languages beyond those I normally get?Yes, up to (6 + Int modifier) ×4 at 1st level and 6 + Int modifier for every level thereafter. :)
narack
03-18-08, 06:18 PM it's 2 point per language, Max rank = level + 4
level 3 bard have then max of 7 rank /2 = 3.5 so 3 new extra language
Legdiwena
03-18-08, 06:18 PM Hmm, put all skill points in it and speak every language at first lvl, interesting.
larry_the_titan
03-18-08, 06:33 PM it's 2 point per language, Max rank = level + 4
level 3 bard have then max of 7 rank /2 = 3.5 so 3 new extra language

Dude I don't know where you are getting the idea you gain ranks in Speak Language or where you got the idea that it takes 2 ranks in said skill to get a language besides a true misunderstanding of the rules. Speak Language isn't even on the skill list of the Character sheet in the back of the PHB. I suggest you turn to page 82 of the PHB and read.
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-18-08, 07:40 PM it's 2 point per language, Max rank = level + 4
level 3 bard have then max of 7 rank /2 = 3.5 so 3 new extra language

In addition to what larry the titan said, Speak Language is a class skill for bards, so ranks or not, it only costs 1 skill point per language for them.
Legdiwena
03-18-08, 07:53 PM Since it is class skill for some and cross-class for others, I assume you need a full rank to learn a language.
bearform
03-18-08, 08:20 PM This might be going a bit astray. Speak Language definitely costs 2 skill points per language except for bards, for whom it is a class skill and thus costs 1 skill point per language.

But that's not my question. My question is, can a character spend as many skill points as he wants to in Speak Language? Or is he bound by the skill points rule of max ranks = character level + 3?

The only reason there is even a question in mind about it is because spending skill points in Speak Language doesn't actually give a character any ranks per se. In fact, the PHB pg 82 specifically states: "You can purchase Speak Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying a rank in it, you choose a new language that you can speak."

So on one hand, since you're not buying ranks in Speak Language it would make sense that you're not bound by the max ranks rule. On the other hand, it feel counterintuitive that a low level character can know a ton of languages.
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-18-08, 08:33 PM You're not buying ranks, you're not limited by the rank cap. You can have as many as you can pay for. Although if you want to have a ton of languages, another way you could do it is pick up the Master Linguist feat. Requires you speak 4 or more languages (not difficult at all, a goblin with Int 14 qualifies from the very beginning), and it gives you another language every level (including the level at which you take the feat).
angryscrub
03-18-08, 09:50 PM i would tend to vote for no cap on languages, since there are no ranks. i haven't actually seen anything official, but i can't think how it would break the game.

an interesting idea. human bard, 16 int, master linguist and jack of all trades feats at first level, use bardic knack alternate class feature. max out diplomacy, sense motive, bluff, spend all other skill points on languages. by level twenty, you'd speak, what, 181 languages, and be +10 to ALL skills, including trained only ones, except the three you maxed out. talk about the ultimate diplomat. you could talk knowledgeably to anyone about anything in their native tongue, without resorting to magic. are there even that many languages in the game?
Jaxgaret
03-18-08, 11:16 PM Agreed with everyone who stated that putting skill points into Speak Language doesn't buy you ranks in it, it grants you additional languages known.

And there is no maximum # of languages known cap.
Vegepygmy
03-19-08, 12:52 AM Agreed with everyone who stated that putting skill points into Speak Language doesn't buy you ranks in it, it grants you additional languages known.I have to agree that this is what the skill description literally says. Nevertheless, I prefer to consider each language learned as a "rank" in Speak Language and to apply the maximum rank cap.
JulesCARV
03-19-08, 01:07 AM It's sort of like Speak Language is an "umbrella skill" like craft, knowledge, perform, and profession, except that you only ever buy one rank in any of the "language skills." (i.e., languages)

Someone who spends skill points to buy the ability to speak ignan, terran, aquan, and auran is a bit like someone who buys one rank in profession (sailor), one rank in profession (astrologer), one rank in profession (cook), and one rank in profession (herbalist).

I forgot who originally made that analogy, so I'll just say it's not original to me.
narack
03-19-08, 08:22 AM I just read in my book and you are right it's 1 rank for 1 language, the things is that i must have forgotten that when i was taking it it was cross class that's why the 2 points. You are still limited by the max rank since it's a skill and anyway it doesn't state that the skill isn't affected by the max rank, it actually state that it work as other skill except that there are no check made with it.
larry_the_titan
03-19-08, 08:46 AM I just read in my book and you are right it's 1 rank for 1 language, the things is that i must have forgotten that when i was taking it it was cross class that's why the 2 points. You are still limited by the max rank since it's a skill and anyway it doesn't state that the skill isn't affected by the max rank, it actually state that it work as other skill except that there are no check made with it.

It also states that you don't gain Ranks. Without Ranks there is no cap. So there is not limit. So if you want to post the rule that says you actually gain ranks I will admit I am wrong.
Legdiwena
03-19-08, 01:06 PM Going by Core, the languages are: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Druidic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Gnoll, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, and Undercommon. 20 languages, one of which is a secret language.
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-19-08, 08:27 PM Going by Core, the languages are: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Druidic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Gnoll, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, and Undercommon. 20 languages, one of which is a secret language.

There are more core languages than that but they're in the monster manual. But yeah, having 180ish languages would be kind of ridiculous.
Legdiwena
03-19-08, 08:56 PM Didn't know about those and my MM is missing. Of course, there are also languages in campaign settings, but that's beyond core.
Belkar
03-20-08, 10:01 AM Going by Core, the languages are: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Druidic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Gnoll, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, and Undercommon. 20 languages, one of which is a secret language.

So... let's assume a non-human bard. You'd know 2 of those languages right off: common + 1. Druidic can't be learned. This leaves 17 languages out of the PHB to learn and speak with most anything, anywhere. If the bard has a 16 Int, that's 3 more free languages known at level 1. This leaves 14 unknown languages from the PHB to purchase.

At (6+Int)x4 at lvl 1, that 36 skill points at level 1, which, at a point per language, will let you learn know every language possible in the PHB, and still have 22 skill points to spend - letting you max rank 5 skills, and still have 2 points to throw around.

Sheesh.

But in retrospect, it would be even better to be human. You'd have 40 skill points at level 1, only 1 of which would be needed to buy the language you didn't learn for being human. This gives you max rank 6 skills, with 1 extra point left.
larry_the_titan
03-20-08, 10:32 AM So... let's assume a non-human bard. You'd know 2 of those languages right off: common + 1. Druidic can't be learned. This leaves 17 languages out of the PHB to learn and speak with most anything, anywhere. If the bard has a 16 Int, that's 3 more free languages known at level 1. This leaves 14 unknown languages from the PHB to purchase.

At (6+Int)x4 at lvl 1, that 36 skill points at level 1, which, at a point per language, will let you learn know every language possible in the PHB, and still have 22 skill points to spend - letting you max rank 5 skills, and still have 2 points to throw around.

I would just be a Druid and take the Feat Master Linguist at first level and not even worry about spending a Skill point on Languages in the first place. Who needs the Spell Comprehend Languages I know all of them anyway sooner or later.
larry_the_titan
03-20-08, 12:24 PM I found this as a in an unreplied to post from about a month ago.

I went through the Monster Manual, MMII, MMIII, MMIV, and the Fiend Folio and here are all the non-PHB languages i've found in each book...

Aboleth
Worg(known by Barghests)
Beholder
Blink dog- barks, yaps, whines, growls. but still convey complex information.
Drow sign language
Gith
Grimlock
Kuo-toan
Sahuagin
Slaad
Sphinx
Treant
Worg
Yuan-ti
Avolakia
Boggle- rudimentary grunts and whistles
Desmodu- has ultra and sub sonic noise. non-desmodu can't speak.
Forest sloth- communication using grunts & screeches
Galeb duhr - rock singing
Gravecrawler- communicate with spirits of consumed dead
Jermlaine - high-pitched chitters and squeaks
Loxo
Meenlocks- grunts and clicks but it's not language. They sometimes make those noises to disguise telepathy.
Phase wasp- signal language of subtle smells, postures, flight patterns
Thri-kreen
Demodand
Khen-Zai - Ethergaunts
Formian
Kaorti
Mongrelfolk pidgin language
Nerra - sounds like glass scoured by a rock
Phiuhl - no audible language but can communicate with each other
Rilmani
Skulk - bastardized common with words and concepts from ancient human cultures
Sporebat
Varrangoin

Armandish
Sahuagin
Ibixian- Goatfolk
Kenku
Lumi
Nycter
Odopi- handclapping and squishy noises. (They're creatures that are just hands and eyes. what did you expect?)
Prismatic roper- color changes as communication
Yuan-ti
Stonesinger
Susurrus - hard to reproduce. hollow-sounding.

Khen-Zai (known by Joystealers, who were bound by the ethergaunts)
Windsong - windrazors
Zern

It the lists of Languages from Monster Manual 1-4 plus some other books. Its a good start if you want a full list.
TheRealOrion
03-20-08, 01:01 PM Do "othered" races (not humans) automatically get multiple languages? I assumed that they get their 1 native tongue and then their Int bonus dictates whether they get more. My monsters routinely don't speak "common." They just yell at the heroes in goblinese or orcish.
Belkar
03-20-08, 03:24 PM The 6 non-human player races all get common - plus their racial language, plus their Int Bonus in bonus languages.

As for "monstrous" non-human races - the MM entry details what languages they know.
Legdiwena
03-20-08, 05:25 PM You could also be a high level monk with tongue of the sun and moon.
TheRealOrion
03-20-08, 08:05 PM Oh right. Duh. Thank you!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bearform 03-18-08, 04:35 PM	My question regarding the D&D 3.5 Speak Language skill: Given that this skill doesn't use the traditional rank structure that other 3.5 skills use, is it restricted by the max ranks rule? In other words if I have a 3rd-level bard for example, can I use skill points to purchase more than six extra languages beyond those I normally get?
larry_the_titan 03-18-08, 05:08 PM	Since you aren't gaining ranks in a skill you can go ahead and buy as much stuff as you want but I wouldn't recommend it.
Shadowfax7 03-18-08, 05:59 PM	My question regarding the D&D 3.5 Speak Language skill: Given that this skill doesn't use the traditional rank structure that other 3.5 skills use, is it restricted by the max ranks rule?No In other words if I have a 3rd-level bard for example, can I use skill points to purchase more than six extra languages beyond those I normally get?Yes, up to (6 + Int modifier) ×4 at 1st level and 6 + Int modifier for every level thereafter. :)
narack 03-18-08, 06:18 PM	it's 2 point per language, Max rank = level + 4 level 3 bard have then max of 7 rank /2 = 3.5 so 3 new extra language
Legdiwena 03-18-08, 06:18 PM	Hmm, put all skill points in it and speak every language at first lvl, interesting.
larry_the_titan 03-18-08, 06:33 PM	it's 2 point per language, Max rank = level + 4 level 3 bard have then max of 7 rank /2 = 3.5 so 3 new extra language Dude I don't know where you are getting the idea you gain ranks in Speak Language or where you got the idea that it takes 2 ranks in said skill to get a language besides a true misunderstanding of the rules. Speak Language isn't even on the skill list of the Character sheet in the back of the PHB. I suggest you turn to page 82 of the PHB and read.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-18-08, 07:40 PM	it's 2 point per language, Max rank = level + 4 level 3 bard have then max of 7 rank /2 = 3.5 so 3 new extra language In addition to what larry the titan said, Speak Language is a class skill for bards, so ranks or not, it only costs 1 skill point per language for them.
Legdiwena 03-18-08, 07:53 PM	Since it is class skill for some and cross-class for others, I assume you need a full rank to learn a language.
bearform 03-18-08, 08:20 PM	This might be going a bit astray. Speak Language definitely costs 2 skill points per language except for bards, for whom it is a class skill and thus costs 1 skill point per language. But that's not my question. My question is, can a character spend as many skill points as he wants to in Speak Language? Or is he bound by the skill points rule of max ranks = character level + 3? The only reason there is even a question in mind about it is because spending skill points in Speak Language doesn't actually give a character any ranks per se. In fact, the PHB pg 82 specifically states: "You can purchase Speak Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying a rank in it, you choose a new language that you can speak." So on one hand, since you're not buying ranks in Speak Language it would make sense that you're not bound by the max ranks rule. On the other hand, it feel counterintuitive that a low level character can know a ton of languages.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-18-08, 08:33 PM	You're not buying ranks, you're not limited by the rank cap. You can have as many as you can pay for. Although if you want to have a ton of languages, another way you could do it is pick up the Master Linguist feat. Requires you speak 4 or more languages (not difficult at all, a goblin with Int 14 qualifies from the very beginning), and it gives you another language every level (including the level at which you take the feat).
angryscrub 03-18-08, 09:50 PM	i would tend to vote for no cap on languages, since there are no ranks. i haven't actually seen anything official, but i can't think how it would break the game. an interesting idea. human bard, 16 int, master linguist and jack of all trades feats at first level, use bardic knack alternate class feature. max out diplomacy, sense motive, bluff, spend all other skill points on languages. by level twenty, you'd speak, what, 181 languages, and be +10 to ALL skills, including trained only ones, except the three you maxed out. talk about the ultimate diplomat. you could talk knowledgeably to anyone about anything in their native tongue, without resorting to magic. are there even that many languages in the game?
Jaxgaret 03-18-08, 11:16 PM	Agreed with everyone who stated that putting skill points into Speak Language doesn't buy you ranks in it, it grants you additional languages known. And there is no maximum # of languages known cap.
Vegepygmy 03-19-08, 12:52 AM	Agreed with everyone who stated that putting skill points into Speak Language doesn't buy you ranks in it, it grants you additional languages known.I have to agree that this is what the skill description literally says. Nevertheless, I prefer to consider each language learned as a "rank" in Speak Language and to apply the maximum rank cap.
JulesCARV 03-19-08, 01:07 AM	It's sort of like Speak Language is an "umbrella skill" like craft, knowledge, perform, and profession, except that you only ever buy one rank in any of the "language skills." (i.e., languages) Someone who spends skill points to buy the ability to speak ignan, terran, aquan, and auran is a bit like someone who buys one rank in profession (sailor), one rank in profession (astrologer), one rank in profession (cook), and one rank in profession (herbalist). I forgot who originally made that analogy, so I'll just say it's not original to me.
narack 03-19-08, 08:22 AM	I just read in my book and you are right it's 1 rank for 1 language, the things is that i must have forgotten that when i was taking it it was cross class that's why the 2 points. You are still limited by the max rank since it's a skill and anyway it doesn't state that the skill isn't affected by the max rank, it actually state that it work as other skill except that there are no check made with it.
larry_the_titan 03-19-08, 08:46 AM	I just read in my book and you are right it's 1 rank for 1 language, the things is that i must have forgotten that when i was taking it it was cross class that's why the 2 points. You are still limited by the max rank since it's a skill and anyway it doesn't state that the skill isn't affected by the max rank, it actually state that it work as other skill except that there are no check made with it. It also states that you don't gain Ranks. Without Ranks there is no cap. So there is not limit. So if you want to post the rule that says you actually gain ranks I will admit I am wrong.
Legdiwena 03-19-08, 01:06 PM	Going by Core, the languages are: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Druidic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Gnoll, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, and Undercommon. 20 languages, one of which is a secret language.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-19-08, 08:27 PM	Going by Core, the languages are: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Druidic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Gnoll, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, and Undercommon. 20 languages, one of which is a secret language. There are more core languages than that but they're in the monster manual. But yeah, having 180ish languages would be kind of ridiculous.
Legdiwena 03-19-08, 08:56 PM	Didn't know about those and my MM is missing. Of course, there are also languages in campaign settings, but that's beyond core.
Belkar 03-20-08, 10:01 AM	Going by Core, the languages are: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Druidic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Gnoll, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, and Undercommon. 20 languages, one of which is a secret language. So... let's assume a non-human bard. You'd know 2 of those languages right off: common + 1. Druidic can't be learned. This leaves 17 languages out of the PHB to learn and speak with most anything, anywhere. If the bard has a 16 Int, that's 3 more free languages known at level 1. This leaves 14 unknown languages from the PHB to purchase. At (6+Int)x4 at lvl 1, that 36 skill points at level 1, which, at a point per language, will let you learn know every language possible in the PHB, and still have 22 skill points to spend - letting you max rank 5 skills, and still have 2 points to throw around. Sheesh. But in retrospect, it would be even better to be human. You'd have 40 skill points at level 1, only 1 of which would be needed to buy the language you didn't learn for being human. This gives you max rank 6 skills, with 1 extra point left.
larry_the_titan 03-20-08, 10:32 AM	So... let's assume a non-human bard. You'd know 2 of those languages right off: common + 1. Druidic can't be learned. This leaves 17 languages out of the PHB to learn and speak with most anything, anywhere. If the bard has a 16 Int, that's 3 more free languages known at level 1. This leaves 14 unknown languages from the PHB to purchase. At (6+Int)x4 at lvl 1, that 36 skill points at level 1, which, at a point per language, will let you learn know every language possible in the PHB, and still have 22 skill points to spend - letting you max rank 5 skills, and still have 2 points to throw around. I would just be a Druid and take the Feat Master Linguist at first level and not even worry about spending a Skill point on Languages in the first place. Who needs the Spell Comprehend Languages I know all of them anyway sooner or later.
larry_the_titan 03-20-08, 12:24 PM	I found this as a in an unreplied to post from about a month ago. I went through the Monster Manual, MMII, MMIII, MMIV, and the Fiend Folio and here are all the non-PHB languages i've found in each book... Aboleth Worg(known by Barghests) Beholder Blink dog- barks, yaps, whines, growls. but still convey complex information. Drow sign language Gith Grimlock Kuo-toan Sahuagin Slaad Sphinx Treant Worg Yuan-ti Avolakia Boggle- rudimentary grunts and whistles Desmodu- has ultra and sub sonic noise. non-desmodu can't speak. Forest sloth- communication using grunts & screeches Galeb duhr - rock singing Gravecrawler- communicate with spirits of consumed dead Jermlaine - high-pitched chitters and squeaks Loxo Meenlocks- grunts and clicks but it's not language. They sometimes make those noises to disguise telepathy. Phase wasp- signal language of subtle smells, postures, flight patterns Thri-kreen Demodand Khen-Zai - Ethergaunts Formian Kaorti Mongrelfolk pidgin language Nerra - sounds like glass scoured by a rock Phiuhl - no audible language but can communicate with each other Rilmani Skulk - bastardized common with words and concepts from ancient human cultures Sporebat Varrangoin Armandish Sahuagin Ibixian- Goatfolk Kenku Lumi Nycter Odopi- handclapping and squishy noises. (They're creatures that are just hands and eyes. what did you expect?) Prismatic roper- color changes as communication Yuan-ti Stonesinger Susurrus - hard to reproduce. hollow-sounding. Khen-Zai (known by Joystealers, who were bound by the ethergaunts) Windsong - windrazors Zern It the lists of Languages from Monster Manual 1-4 plus some other books. Its a good start if you want a full list.
TheRealOrion 03-20-08, 01:01 PM	Do "othered" races (not humans) automatically get multiple languages? I assumed that they get their 1 native tongue and then their Int bonus dictates whether they get more. My monsters routinely don't speak "common." They just yell at the heroes in goblinese or orcish.
Belkar 03-20-08, 03:24 PM	The 6 non-human player races all get common - plus their racial language, plus their Int Bonus in bonus languages. As for "monstrous" non-human races - the MM entry details what languages they know.
Legdiwena 03-20-08, 05:25 PM	You could also be a high level monk with tongue of the sun and moon.
TheRealOrion 03-20-08, 08:05 PM	Oh right. Duh. Thank you!