| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| AllisterH06-10-07, 02:22 PM | I'm looking for opinions on balancing these feats. Too strong, too weak? DESERT WEATHER The desert is more than heat and fire. It is both electricity and cold. A Desert Wind adept learns and masters these elements when using the desert wind. Prerequisite: BAB+5, Desert Fire. Benefit: When using a manoeuver from the desert wind or a desert wind feat (Desert Fire, Desert Wind Dodge, Scorching Sirocco), you may replace the fire elemental damage with either cold or electricity damage. Like many, I was somewhat disappointed that desert wind was only fire. I wanted the ability to change the damage type but at the same time, I wanted it flexible since simply changing it to one type gets back the same problem. The reason why I didn't include either acid or sonic damage was because those tend to be unbalancing if at the same level of damage as the regular damage types POWER OF THE EARTH You become like the Earth and thus always are connected to it. Prerequisite: BAB +5, Stone Power Benefit: You no longer need to be in contact with the earth to be able to use any Stone Dragon manoeuver. Normal: You must be in contact with the earth to use Stone Dragon manoeuvers. Similar to the limitation of the Desert Wind, I find the limitation on stone dragon something that can be lifted with a feat expenditure. DISCIPLINE MASTERY You have mastered a particular discipline and it has become one with you like breathing. Prerequisite: BAB +12, Blade Meditation (any 1 chosen discipline), Tactical Discipline Feat (must be the same discipline as the Blade Meditation feat, e.g you need Blade Meditation {Iron Heart} if you have Stormguard Warrior.) Benefit: When you take this feat, you choose a discipline which must be the same as Blade Meditation and the Tactical Discipline feat. You gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls with the selected discipline weapon of choice. You also gain a +1 bonus on damage rolls when using any manoeuver or feat from the selected discipline as well as a +1 bonus to your initiator level when using said discipline's feats or manoeuvers. You also are able to initiate any manoeuver of that selected disciipline without being able to move. Normal: You can only use a manoeuver when you are able to move. Special: A fighter can select Discipline Mastery as one of their fighter bonus feats. One of the things people tend to forget is that you can only use a manoeuver when they can move (e.g. Iron Heart Surge and paralysis for example) so I figured the easiest thing was to both remind people of this fact AND allow for people to overcome this limitation. There were also few high level ToB feats |
| Ryusage06-10-07, 02:30 PM | Good job, both balanced and useful. |
| Spellfire_junkie06-10-07, 02:39 PM | Seriously, kudos! |
| strenoth06-10-07, 04:07 PM | On that last one, add something along the lines of "but to complete manuevers that involve attacks or other physical actions, you still need to be able to physically perform those actions." which means one could shadow jaunt, iron heart surge, or reroll a savingthrow w/o beign able to move, but can't initiate astrike. |
| AllisterH06-10-07, 04:33 PM | On that last one, add something along the lines of "but to complete manuevers that involve attacks or other physical actions, you still need to be able to physically perform those actions." which means one could shadow jaunt, iron heart surge, or reroll a savingthrow w/o beign able to move, but can't initiate astrike. Hmmm....Good point otherwise I get the weird effect of being able to use strikes yet not be able to attack normally. How about this. Benefit: You also are able to initiate any manoeuver of that selected disciipline without being able to move that does not require either a charge, move action, attack or skill roll.. Reason for the wording: Boulder Roll and other boosts and counters that either use move actions or attack rolls would also need to be covered. The new wording would still allow for things like WRT while immobilized. |
| Lady Maedhros06-10-07, 05:26 PM | I would switch the wording on the first from "When using a maneuver" to "When preparing a maneuver." On-the-fly selection between any of three elements is too powerful for a single feat, but the ability to choose a particular type before any given battle is quite fair. Other than that I really like these; Mastery seems quite well placed at +12 BAB and you're filling holes that need filling. Though I might add something a little more to Power of the Earth myself - the "touching the ground" limitation makes a difference to game balance, but not enough to warrant an entire feat by itself, IMO. |
| AllisterH06-10-07, 08:55 PM | I would switch the wording on the first from "When using a maneuver" to "When preparing a maneuver." On-the-fly selection between any of three elements is too powerful for a single feat, but the ability to choose a particular type before any given battle is quite fair.. I thought about this originally and I didn't go with that method since psionics already get this for free (no need for a feat), the original 3.0 of energy substituition allowed for on-the-fly switching and the reason for the 3.5 change to one element was because of sonic and acid. Everyone defaulted to those but desert weather doesn't allow for that. It does require the use of another feat, one that rarely gets play I've noticed which is unfortunate since it _IS_ a good feat (Unlike a lot of feats in the PHB, the ToB doesn't have any useless feats like Monkey grip). Other than that I really like these; Mastery seems quite well placed at +12 BAB and you're filling holes that need filling. Though I might add something a little more to Power of the Earth myself - the "touching the ground" limitation makes a difference to game balance, but not enough to warrant an entire feat by itself, IMO. re: Power of the Earth The weird thing about Stone Dragon is that I think it loses a lot of effectiveness as you increase in character level since more and more, you are NOT touching the ground. Yet at the same time, I didn't want just another +1 bonus so the only thing I can think of is the following. Power of the Earth v1.5 You become like the Earth and thus always are connected to it. Prerequisite: BAB +5, Stone Power Benefit: You no longer need to be in contact with the earth to be able to use any Stone Dragon manoeuver. You gain the stability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dwarf.htm) racial trait. If you have the stability racial trait already, you keep this benefit even when not in contact with the ground (climbing, flying, riding etc.)Normal: You must be in contact with the earth to use Stone Dragon manoeuvers and the normal restriction on stability applies. Is now this too strong?:confused: Thanks for the comments as I've been trying to come up with feats that are worth taking, fill holes, but aren't overpowered and aren't just another +1 bonus. Here's one more high level feat that I'm trying out in games. Reshar's Path It is said that only 1 man has mastered all 9 paths of the Sublime Way. Reshar, founder of the Temple of the 9 swords. Many martial adepts seek to follow his path and the first step along that path is this. Prerequisite: BAB +15, Adaptive Style, Discipline Mastery, Weapon Specialization (must be in a weapon that is a favoured weapon of the discipline from discipline mastery) Benefit: When using the discipline weapon, one can initiate a manoeuver from the same discipline but have it expend one of your other readied manoeuvers from the same discipline that is of the same level or higher. E.g. A warblade with Reshar's Path (Stone Dragon) using a Stone Dragon weapon could initiate a 4th level stone dragon manoeuver but he could choose to mark off another stone dragon manoeuver that he had readied as expended as long as is of 4th level or higher. Normal: When a manoeuver is initiated, it is itself expended Special: A fighter can select Reshar's Path as one of their bonus fighter feats. In effect, this feat allows some limited spamming of the same manoeuver. At first I was concerned about this but then somebody pointed out these things You can go Diamond Nightmare Blade, Inferno Blast, Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike and basically use only 9th level manoeuvers, there doesn't seem to be a balance reason for restricting what manoeuver is used. The reason for the restriction on spamming apparently is more of a flavour restriction than a balance restriction according to Mike Mearls. This _IS_ a high level feat. Along with the BAB +15, you do require 6 feats at a minimum (WS: 2 feats, Discipline Mastery: 3 feats,Adaptive Style) Thus, I think this is balanced but it does reward the people that wanted to simply be able to spam one ability all day long and it only works if you have enough manoeuvers in |
| Chimaera200006-10-07, 09:07 PM | Any particular reason for the BAB requirements for the first two feats? It strikes me as being unnecessary. Why be forced to wait until level 5+ before you can access a feat that really should've been built into the disciplines for free? Likewise, I don't know if Discipline Mastery needs to have such a high BAB requirement. In fact, what about basing the requirement off initiator level instead of BAB? That allows swordsages to have full access to this feat, and doesn't it make the most sense for them to be taking it in the first place? Other than my preference for house-ruling the first two feats in for free, the feats themselves are fine. |
| AllisterH06-11-07, 11:23 AM | Any particular reason for the BAB requirements for the first two feats? It strikes me as being unnecessary. Why be forced to wait until level 5+ before you can access a feat that really should've been built into the disciplines for free? Likewise, I don't know if Discipline Mastery needs to have such a high BAB requirement. In fact, what about basing the requirement off initiator level instead of BAB? That allows swordsages to have full access to this feat, and doesn't it make the most sense for them to be taking it in the first place? Other than my preference for house-ruling the first two feats in for free, the feats themselves are fine. Hmmm....Good point about the BAB restriction. You quite right that there really is no reason to restrict those feats, especially since most likely they would be taken at 3rd level anyway (non-humans only have 1 feat at level 1). Force of habit for me to use BAB even when it isn't needed. As for the initiator idea, I would have to disagree. Remember, a crusader 6/swordsage 6/warblade 6 would have an IL of 12/12/12 yet a swordsage 16 has an IL of 16. That said, I don't think I need to use the BAB requirement either for those high level feats since the number of prerequisite feats I used would be enough of a restriction and like you mentioned, it wouldn't affect the swordsage unfairly. REVISED FEATS 2.0 DESERT WEATHER The desert is more than heat and fire. It is both electricity and cold. A Desert Wind adept learns and masters these elements when using the desert wind. Prerequisite: Desert Fire. Benefit: When using a manoeuver from the desert wind or a desert wind feat (Desert Fire, Desert Wind Dodge, Scorching Sirocco), you may replace the fire type energy damage with damage of type cold or electricity. POWER OF THE EARTH You become like the Earth and thus always are connected to it. Prerequisite: Stone Power Benefit: You no longer need to be in contact with the earth to be able to use any Stone Dragon manoeuver. You gain the stability racial trait. If you have the stability racial trait already, you keep this benefit even when not in contact with the ground (climbing, flying, riding etc.) Normal: You must be in contact with the earth to use Stone Dragon manoeuvers and the normal restriction on stability applies. DISCIPLINE MASTERY You have mastered a particular discipline and it has become one with you like breathing. Prerequisite: Blade Meditation (any 1 chosen discipline), Tactical Discipline Feat (must be the same discipline as the Blade Meditation feat, e.g you need Blade Meditation {Iron Heart} if you have Stormguard Warrior.) Benefit: When you take this feat, you choose a discipline which must be the same as Blade Meditation and the Tactical Discipline feat. You gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls with the selected discipline weapon of choice. You also gain a +1 bonus on damage rolls when using any manoeuver or feat from the selected discipline as well as a +1 bonus to your initiator level when using said discipline's feats or manoeuvers. You also are able to initiate any manoeuver of that selected disciipline without being able to move that does not require either a charge, move action, attack or skill roll.. Normal: You can only initiate a manoeuver when you are able to move. Special: A fighter can select Discipline Mastery as one of their fighter bonus feats RESHAR"S PATH It is said that only 1 man has mastered all 9 paths of the Sublime Way. Reshar, founder of the Temple of the 9 swords. Many martial adepts seek to follow his path and the first step along that path is this. Prerequisite: Adaptive Style, Discipline Mastery, Weapon Specialization (must be in a weapon that is a favoured weapon of the discipline from discipline mastery) Benefit: When using the discipline weapon, one can initiate a manoeuver from the same discipline but have it expend one of your other readied manoeuvers from the same discipline that is of the same level or higher. E.g. A warblade with Reshar's Path (Stone Dragon) using a Stone Dragon weapon could initiate a 4th level stone dragon manoeuver but he could choose to mark off another stone dragon manoeuver that he had readied as expended as long as is of 4th level or higher. Normal: When a manoeuver is initiated, it is itself expended Special: A fighter can select Reshar's Path as one of their bonus fighter feats. Since I'm already here, I might as well throw this manoeuver up as well (query to mods/forum denizens: What forum do manoeuvers go under? For that matter, stuff like Vestiges as well? I know invocations defaults to the magic and spells...) ZEPHYR"S STRIDE Desert Wind (Stance) Level: Swordsage 5 Prerequisite: Two Desert Wind manoeuvers Initiation Action: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Stance You become as quick as a zephyr across the sand dunes with your feet barely touching the ground. While in this stance, you gain a bonus to your speed (in all forms of movement) equal to your IL x 5. You gain a Dodge bonus to your AC equal to your Tumble Rank divided by 2 while moving as well. This is a supernatural ability. (One of the weird things about the Desert Wind school is that it talks about wind, speed and fire but it doesn't have much movement enhancers. I think this should be supernatural based on the fact that when a monk hits a speed of only 60, it is considered supernatural.) |
| Chimaera200006-20-07, 11:24 PM | Hmmm....Good point about the BAB restriction. You quite right that there really is no reason to restrict those feats, especially since most likely they would be taken at 3rd level anyway (non-humans only have 1 feat at level 1). Force of habit for me to use BAB even when it isn't needed. As for the initiator idea, I would have to disagree. Remember, a crusader 6/swordsage 6/warblade 6 would have an IL of 12/12/12 yet a swordsage 16 has an IL of 16. That said, I don't think I need to use the BAB requirement either for those high level feats since the number of prerequisite feats I used would be enough of a restriction and like you mentioned, it wouldn't affect the swordsage unfairly. REVISED FEATS 2.0 [quote]DESERT WEATHER The desert is more than heat and fire. It is both electricity and cold. A Desert Wind adept learns and masters these elements when using the desert wind. Prerequisite: Desert Fire. Benefit: When using a manoeuver from the desert wind or a desert wind feat (Desert Fire, Desert Wind Dodge, Scorching Sirocco), you may replace the fire type energy damage with damage of type cold or electricity. See, this is a worthwhile feat. Being able to choose one of three energy types to use on the fly makes Desert Wind a fair bit more viable. POWER OF THE EARTH You become like the Earth and thus always are connected to it. Prerequisite: Stone Power Benefit: You no longer need to be in contact with the earth to be able to use any Stone Dragon manoeuver. You gain the stability racial trait. If you have the stability racial trait already, you keep this benefit even when not in contact with the ground (climbing, flying, riding etc.) Normal: You must be in contact with the earth to use Stone Dragon manoeuvers and the normal restriction on stability applies. Here's an idea: rather than gaining the Stability trait, instead make it so that you can move farther than five feet when in a stance! That deserves an explanation point because of how ridiculous that restriction is. Good-bye, viability of most any Stone Dragon stance otherwise! DISCIPLINE MASTERY You have mastered a particular discipline and it has become one with you like breathing. Prerequisite: Blade Meditation (any 1 chosen discipline), Tactical Discipline Feat (must be the same discipline as the Blade Meditation feat, e.g you need Blade Meditation {Iron Heart} if you have Stormguard Warrior.) Benefit: When you take this feat, you choose a discipline which must be the same as Blade Meditation and the Tactical Discipline feat. You gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls with the selected discipline weapon of choice. You also gain a +1 bonus on damage rolls when using any manoeuver or feat from the selected discipline as well as a +1 bonus to your initiator level when using said discipline's feats or manoeuvers. You also are able to initiate any manoeuver of that selected disciipline without being able to move that does not require either a charge, move action, attack or skill roll.. Normal: You can only initiate a manoeuver when you are able to move. Special: A fighter can select Discipline Mastery as one of their fighter bonus feats So you'd actually be able to use Iron Heart Surge to get rid of paralysis, eh? Heaven forbid. You may wish to stipulate whether you can use this if you're not normally capable of taking actions, otherwise you'll end up with some interesting situations like people using White Raven Tactics when sleeping or dead. :rolleyes: RESHAR"S PATH It is said that only 1 man has mastered all 9 paths of the Sublime Way. Reshar, founder of the Temple of the 9 swords. Many martial adepts seek to follow his path and the first step along that path is this. Prerequisite: Adaptive Style, Discipline Mastery, Weapon Specialization (must be in a weapon that is a favoured weapon of the discipline from discipline mastery) Benefit: When using the discipline weapon, one can initiate a manoeuver from the same discipline but have it expend one of your other readied manoeuvers from the same discipline that is of the same level or higher. E.g. A warblade with Reshar's Path (Stone Dragon) using a Stone Dragon weapon could initiate a 4th level stone dragon manoeuver but he could choose to mark off another stone dragon manoeuver that he had readied as expended as long as is of 4th level or higher. Normal: When a manoeuver is initiated, it is itself expended Special: A fighter can select Reshar's Path as one of their bonus fighter feats. Interesting idea, but abusable. This allows you to use the same strong maneuver every single round, which is highly abusable as the old CustServ interpretation of the crusader recovery mechanic (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=707947) showed. Since I'm already here, I might as well throw this manoeuver up as well (query to mods/forum denizens: What forum do manoeuvers go under? For that matter, stuff like Vestiges as well? I know invocations defaults to the magic and spells...) I believe that people usually toss Tome of Battle maneuvers on the Classes and Prestige Classes forum, cluttered as it is. Vestiges either go there or in the Magic and Spells forum. ZEPHYR"S STRIDE Desert Wind (Stance) Level: Swordsage 5 Prerequisite: Two Desert Wind manoeuvers Initiation Action: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: Stance You become as quick as a zephyr across the sand dunes with your feet barely touching the ground. While in this stance, you gain a bonus to your speed (in all forms of movement) equal to your IL x 5. You gain a Dodge bonus to your AC equal to your Tumble Rank divided by 2 while moving as well. This is a supernatural ability. (One of the weird things about the Desert Wind school is that it talks about wind, speed and fire but it doesn't have much movement enhancers. I think this should be supernatural based on the fact that when a monk hits a speed of only 60, it is considered supernatural.) Wow, up to +100 speed and around +10 dodge bonus to AC as a boost? The first number in particular scares me. I can't help but wonder why this is, considered the Speed Record (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=852524), which also sets a conventional melee damage record with Tornado Throw. :nonono: |