A feat idea that I think is broken. [Archive] - Wizards Community

A feat idea that I think is broken. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lawlicron
06-28-07, 01:50 AM Pierce The Ribs
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Base attack bonus +6
Benefits: When grappling, and attacking with a light weapon, your opponent is denied his dexterity bonus to AC.

I think that wording works, but the idea is to make it so attacks you make against him while grappling allow you to use your sneak attack. We were kicking this around tonight at the table, I think it sounds a little too much.

Edit: Ok changed the wording and added a name. I want to pursue this a little more, flesh it out and balance it. I'd like a little more debate to it.
Kouk
06-28-07, 02:53 AM Well, the wording is a bit off, it would probably be better to say that the opponent loses his dexterity bonus to AC, allowing a sneak attack.

But yeah, I agree it is too powerful considering a Monk/Rogue.
WackyOne
06-28-07, 03:26 AM But is it? Consider that there is a feat that does the same for wildshaping druids : Savage Grapple. And that a druid already would have more damage potential (and higher grapple modifiers) than any monk... long before you add in some sneak attack.
You could base your feat on that - it's in the Complete Adventurer.
bobothechimp
06-28-07, 07:48 AM Savage grapple has several restrictions that this doesn't. First, it allows sneak attack damage, but does not have them lose dexterity bonus to AC. Second, it only applies to grapple checks to damage the opponent, not any sort of weapon. This means that, without levels in a class that improves unarmed damage, you will be doing the base damage of a creature of your size. Third, there is no Ascetic feat for druids, but there is one for rogues. This feat synergizes Rogue/Monk far better than savage grapple synergizes Rogue/Druid.
InkBlot
06-28-07, 11:48 AM No, it's not overpowered. And here's why - Classes that get Sneak Attack have low Grapple modifiers.

Also, monks suck at grappling. 3/4 BAB and MAD. Even their unarmed damage isn't an advantage, because anybody else can just wear armor spikes.
Hammersoul
06-28-07, 03:28 PM Didn't ANYONE who's grappling is denied his dex / active defense, as a core rule?
Hammersoul
06-28-07, 03:36 PM Ignore me. Only against opponents not grappling you. :P
RobbyPants
06-28-07, 03:51 PM No, it's not overpowered. And here's why - Classes that get Sneak Attack have low Grapple modifiers.

Also, monks suck at grappling. 3/4 BAB and MAD. Even their unarmed damage isn't an advantage, because anybody else can just wear armor spikes.
This would be a pretty nasty feat for the fighter variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) in Unearthed Arcana that gets sneak attack instead of bonus feats. Granted, it's a fairly one-dimensional character, but you would have a full BAB and full sneak attack progression.
Jackmojo
06-28-07, 04:32 PM Maybe only allow half of your sneak attack pool or somesuch?

Jack
Pentar
06-28-07, 04:45 PM Isn't there a feat called Knife Fighter in the Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms that gives you the ability to sneak attack with a light-weapon while grappled?

Or am I thinking Close Quarter Combat? No.. CQC lets you add the damage you deal from your AoO on an attempted Grapple to your opposed Grapple roll, I think. Damnit, I need my books here @ work... :D
Lawlicron
07-02-07, 11:50 AM /bump.

I didn't know about the druid feat that lets you do the same thing, but I'd like the feat to work without having to multiclass although that could make the feat a lot more effective.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lawlicron 06-28-07, 01:50 AM	Pierce The Ribs Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Base attack bonus +6 Benefits: When grappling, and attacking with a light weapon, your opponent is denied his dexterity bonus to AC. I think that wording works, but the idea is to make it so attacks you make against him while grappling allow you to use your sneak attack. We were kicking this around tonight at the table, I think it sounds a little too much. Edit: Ok changed the wording and added a name. I want to pursue this a little more, flesh it out and balance it. I'd like a little more debate to it.
Kouk 06-28-07, 02:53 AM	Well, the wording is a bit off, it would probably be better to say that the opponent loses his dexterity bonus to AC, allowing a sneak attack. But yeah, I agree it is too powerful considering a Monk/Rogue.
WackyOne 06-28-07, 03:26 AM	But is it? Consider that there is a feat that does the same for wildshaping druids : Savage Grapple. And that a druid already would have more damage potential (and higher grapple modifiers) than any monk... long before you add in some sneak attack. You could base your feat on that - it's in the Complete Adventurer.
bobothechimp 06-28-07, 07:48 AM	Savage grapple has several restrictions that this doesn't. First, it allows sneak attack damage, but does not have them lose dexterity bonus to AC. Second, it only applies to grapple checks to damage the opponent, not any sort of weapon. This means that, without levels in a class that improves unarmed damage, you will be doing the base damage of a creature of your size. Third, there is no Ascetic feat for druids, but there is one for rogues. This feat synergizes Rogue/Monk far better than savage grapple synergizes Rogue/Druid.
InkBlot 06-28-07, 11:48 AM	No, it's not overpowered. And here's why - Classes that get Sneak Attack have low Grapple modifiers. Also, monks suck at grappling. 3/4 BAB and MAD. Even their unarmed damage isn't an advantage, because anybody else can just wear armor spikes.
Hammersoul 06-28-07, 03:28 PM	Didn't ANYONE who's grappling is denied his dex / active defense, as a core rule?
Hammersoul 06-28-07, 03:36 PM	Ignore me. Only against opponents not grappling you. :P
RobbyPants 06-28-07, 03:51 PM	No, it's not overpowered. And here's why - Classes that get Sneak Attack have low Grapple modifiers. Also, monks suck at grappling. 3/4 BAB and MAD. Even their unarmed damage isn't an advantage, because anybody else can just wear armor spikes. This would be a pretty nasty feat for the fighter variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) in Unearthed Arcana that gets sneak attack instead of bonus feats. Granted, it's a fairly one-dimensional character, but you would have a full BAB and full sneak attack progression.
Jackmojo 06-28-07, 04:32 PM	Maybe only allow half of your sneak attack pool or somesuch? Jack
Pentar 06-28-07, 04:45 PM	Isn't there a feat called Knife Fighter in the Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms that gives you the ability to sneak attack with a light-weapon while grappled? Or am I thinking Close Quarter Combat? No.. CQC lets you add the damage you deal from your AoO on an attempted Grapple to your opposed Grapple roll, I think. Damnit, I need my books here @ work... :D
Lawlicron 07-02-07, 11:50 AM	/bump. I didn't know about the druid feat that lets you do the same thing, but I'd like the feat to work without having to multiclass although that could make the feat a lot more effective.