Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quoward 02-13-08, 05:34 PM	First off is ability scores for a cohort from the leadership feat. I can't find anywhere that says whether cohorts get stats rolled, elite array, non-elite array, or anything else for their attributes. Now, it'd be nice to know if there is an official ruling on this, anyone know? Next is whether cohorts (And followers, though they are too low leveled to matter often) use PC classes or NPC classes. Seem the rules didn't specify this either, ideas on this one? I read in the forums, in searching for answers to the above, that the exp formula for cohorts generates a downward spiral, them not maintaining 2 levels below PC, falling behind over time. Is this actually true? And, if there are no official rules on the above, what would be most balanced? I mean leadership can often seem to give a lot for just a feat, but weakening it too far would make it useless. Finally, the alternative to the leadership feat being the new apprentice/master feat from DMG2 (Pg 175). Reading through it, when you finally get a cohort, you are level 10 and the cohort is only level 6, which seems rather limited considering the downward spiral (Assuming that's true), making me wonder the point is. Sure, it gives other bonuses, but those bonuses require you to keep training the apprentice, thus implying once the apprentice becomes a cohort you lose the other bonuses. Is this feat/s (Well, feat the morphs into a different feat) as bad for getting a cohort as I think?
dman11235 02-13-08, 06:00 PM	1) That's because it's an NPC. The DM basically says what happens there. The official ruling is there is nothing official. 2) Whichever you want. So probably PC classes. Followers will probably use NPC classes, since they won't get any action. 3) I'm not sure. Generally, lower level characters gain XP faster. And since you are dividing the cohort level by yours, it is generally gaining more xp. 4) It's not that strong. It's a feat used to get a weaker party member. That's about it. The followers mean squat in play. It's like getting a druid animal companion power wise. Only weaker since you can't buff it as effectively. 5ish) I really don't see why anyone would take that(those) feats. It's complex, and you can just take Leadership and call your cohort your apprentice. And no one plays D&D to be an apprentice, they want to be a hero, not a sidekick. And did I mention that it's overly complex?
Quoward 02-14-08, 01:04 AM	1) That's because it's an NPC. The DM basically says what happens there. The official ruling is there is nothing official. 2) Whichever you want. So probably PC classes. Followers will probably use NPC classes, since they won't get any action. 3) I'm not sure. Generally, lower level characters gain XP faster. And since you are dividing the cohort level by yours, it is generally gaining more xp. 4) It's not that strong. It's a feat used to get a weaker party member. That's about it. The followers mean squat in play. It's like getting a druid animal companion power wise. Only weaker since you can't buff it as effectively. 5ish) I really don't see why anyone would take that(those) feats. It's complex, and you can just take Leadership and call your cohort your apprentice. And no one plays D&D to be an apprentice, they want to be a hero, not a sidekick. And did I mention that it's overly complex? Hm... well, you answered the questions quite well, though the part about cohort exp... well, it's exp isn't worked out separately based on it's level, it's the exp the character with leadership gets time cohort level/Character level. At level 6 the character needs 6000 exp to level up, and the cohort needs 4000 exp. Looking at the formular it seems to simply give the cohort the same percentage towards next level as main character. Now, this clearly means a cohort won't chatch up if behind, but if the PC levels up before the cohort, due to having exp above level 6 before getting a cohort, then the change in share could mess it up. Now, my maths skills say the cohort would remain gaining same percentage of next level, but due to the fact a thread on these forums said there was a downward spiral effect I'm not too sure.
Divisionbyzer0 02-14-08, 03:08 AM	1) That's because it's an NPC. The DM basically says what happens there. The official ruling is there is nothing official. 2) Whichever you want. So probably PC classes. Followers will probably use NPC classes, since they won't get any action. 3) I'm not sure. Generally, lower level characters gain XP faster. And since you are dividing the cohort level by yours, it is generally gaining more xp. 4) It's not that strong. It's a feat used to get a weaker party member. That's about it. The followers mean squat in play. It's like getting a druid animal companion power wise. Only weaker since you can't buff it as effectively. 5ish) I really don't see why anyone would take that(those) feats. It's complex, and you can just take Leadership and call your cohort your apprentice. And no one plays D&D to be an apprentice, they want to be a hero, not a sidekick. And did I mention that it's overly complex? Not sure I agree about the followers. If you go hunting in a region with weak monsters you can level them up pretty quick, plus it's just kind of neat for role playing purposes. If you make followers PC classes they can buff themselves, although at a weaker level.
dman11235 02-14-08, 01:14 PM	The most powerful follower you can get is level 6. At level 20, that's not doing anything. The followers are there for RP purposes, and for minor things that don't have much of an impact. The exception is if you are a high level warblade and use that one maneuver to give everyone a free charge with a bonus on attack and damage dependant on the number of chargers. For the maths: You take the total of xp earned, and multiply that by C/Y, where C is cohort level, and Y is your level. If C/Y greater than 1/4, then the cohort is gaining more xp from the battle than each individual in a 4 player equal level party. And generally that fraction is closer to 1. Starts with a minimum of 4/6, and then goes up to 18/20 before epic. It's always above 1/2, much less 1/4. And I did catch that thing about separate xp gaining. I just didn't erase the incorrect part.
tyrecian 02-15-08, 05:54 PM	followers can be very functional in campaigns, even at low levels. If allowed PC classes they can be highly helpful, just perhaps not in combat. ignoring them is just plain silly. we always auto levelled our cohorts with our PCs (they were consistently always 2 levels lower) to completely avoid the issue of strange experience spirals, so i have no idea :P I allowed followers to be either PCs (low level party) or NPC classes, but always restricted Cohorts to PC classes. yes if you feel leadership offers too much, you can hint out of game that they stay behind, or make a roleplay issue where the cohort is left responsibilities that can't be neglected for adventures. Although leadership is only a feat, when allowed it becomes a seminal feat, as lvl 6 is often, so I just assume that it will be taken when i allow it and scale my adventures comparably... My players almost always take the feat, and add a cohort that gives them a boost, and follows them into combat. If i didnt let them take the cohort along each time (or restricted too often) they simply would not want to take the feat :) I don't like to be too restrictive. I have had a DM that relegated cohorts to non-adventure roles (turned into a manufactory IIRC :schemes:) all in all, I like the flavor, as it gives PCs that often get bored by 6th level an opportunity to trade a strict build for a friend that can fill holes that have developed in the party...
Decinious 02-17-08, 02:36 AM	The Master/Aprentice feat if you go with the craftsman one can be shiney. I believe it should stack with the Extraordinary Artisan feat. Though in theory that is still only lowering the cost of enchanting from 37.5% down to 33.75% Market Value which makes/saves you an extra 37.5 gold a day when enchanting items.