Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ZocckCastlestorm 04-15-07, 03:08 PM	Hi, I have noticed that there are currently no ways to get 'better' at things like Bull Rushes, Disarms, Sundering and Tripping other than raw Attribute increases. If Fighter # 1 has a Strength of 18(with all Mods) and Improved Bull Rush, he has a +4 Bull Rush Modifier. If Fighter # 2 has a Strength of 16 (with all Mods) and Improved Bull Rush, he has a +3 Bull Rush Modifier. What can Fighter # 2 do about this? Why can't he "Specialize" in Bull Rushes? Well, why not? Try These; 1) Greater Bull Rush; Prerequisites: Fighter of 8th Level or more, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack and Strength 15+. Benefit: This Feat adds + 2 to all Bull Rush (STR Based) Checks. This Feat may be taken multiple times, and each time it is taken, Add +1 to the Bonus (Much Like XPH's Psionic Talent Feat) so taking it once will grant you +2. Taking it twice will grant you + 5 (+2 for the First and +3 for the second). 2) Greater Disarm; Prerequisites: Fighter of 8th Level +, Improved Disarm, Dexterity 15 +, Combat Expertise, and Intelligence 13 +. Benefit: This Feat adds + 2 to all Disarm (DEX Based) Checks. This Feat may be taken multiple times, and each time it is taken, Add +1 to the Bonus (Much Like XPH's Psionic Talent Feat) so taking it once will grant you +2. Taking it twice will grant you + 5 (+2 for the First and +3 for the second). 3) Greater Grapple; Prerequisites: DEX 13+, Improved Grapple, and Fighter of 8th + Level. Benefit: This Feat adds + 2 to all Grapple (STR Based) Checks. This Feat may be taken multiple times, and each time it is taken, Add +1 to the Bonus (Much Like XPH's Psionic Talent Feat) so taking it once will grant you +2. Taking it twice will grant you + 5 (+2 for the First and +3 for the second). This is just one way to do this. Another may have the Rolls, simply get a one-time Bonus, but of higher Value, like + 4 or something. Tell me what you think.
itwasntme 04-15-07, 03:22 PM	The problem with the situation is that being purely spected out in one way or another is a waste you dount need to do more then X amount of things in any given situation besides if your purely spected out then anything that has any number of things can help reduce you to at least half Strength For example Grapple monk Builds or other Grapple builds are invoid becouse of feats like Close-Quarters Fighter (Or CQC for thouse Metal Gear Solid Fans) which drasticly improves the chance of not being grapples and gives you a free attack agest the other players and granting an AoO Is not a good thing Most good fight builds i find are not purely spected out in one thing but have many options open to them sure your previous guy can be better at bull rushing then me but then again how many times are you going to be bull rushing? And with the ablility to take a feat to help drasticly change the fact that your being bull rushed or in any other situation means you have a good if not fair chance to avoid the bull rush Sure he was better at bull rushing then i was but now that he cant bull rush the character feats and other skills came to a waste while i have many other things i can go on The trick with fighters in my option is to not go up agest any one sure way to beat someone ... ALLWAYS have a backup plan ready to help crush your oppinants there are many ways how to do this But yes triping and Bull rushing are nice things to do and while a fighter has enough feats he can offord to spend 1-4 feats in something like that it will make him a dominating factor in early levels and has enough feats to help with later on in his life besides the guy with 18 str had to use 6 more points (In Point Buy) And only has a +1 advantage over me thouse 6 points can be used in other area's after all you cant bull rush someone in the air (Inless you your self can fly which isnt open intill later levels) but even then it starts to become void Have differnt tastics open to you be the wise fighter/warrior and plan ahead of battle you dount even need to know which monster your going to fight this is why you have multibol tastics ready to use so if your main tastic fails your not out of the game yet
SpoonyBard 04-15-07, 04:04 PM	No, no, this is gorgeous. There's no reason why a fighter shouldn't be able to take multiple feats to better do what he wants to do. If I want my character to be the BEST WRESTLER EVER I should be able to take feats that stack with Improved Grapple. It may not be the BEST idea, but if we only had feats like that, we wouldn't have Combat Casting (which is not as useful as Skill Focus Concentration)
Karn Dragonsbane 04-15-07, 04:36 PM	Arr, you... spoony... bard![/joke] Now, for the serious part. Yes, there are almost NO ways to improve disarm, bull rush, or sunder attempts, except change circumstances. There are weapons that give you a bonus to disarm attempts, there are weapons that canīt sunder. There are items that improve your bull rush checks, thereīs all that crap.
Haruspex 04-15-07, 04:41 PM	Nice! A simple way to become a specialist in these maneuvers. I assume that the feats for Sundering and Tripping are basically the same as the first three.
ZocckCastlestorm 04-15-07, 05:55 PM	Nice! A simple way to become a specialist in these maneuvers. I assume that the feats for Sundering and Tripping are basically the same as the first three. Yes,they are basically the same, Haruspex! I thougth that since they were intended to be basically the same, why post them all if nobody had liked them? I'm glad someone did, but I admit that(in general), itwasntme isn't wrong. Still, the intent was to let a PC CHOOSE to become the best Bull Rusher ever-even if he's only got a 15 STR.
Xeviat-DM 04-15-07, 06:36 PM	I've taken to this idea in my games as well, but I suggest a slightly different approach. Rather than just stacking more bonuses ontop of other bonuses, I think Greater (Maneuver) feats should add to the maneuver. Here are my current ideas: Greater Bullrush: You no longer have to follow the target of your bullrush; they are pushed back up to 5 feet plus 5 feet per 5 points you beat their strength check without you having to follow. In addition, they must make a balance check to not fall prone, and they take damage from being bullrushed into creatures or objects (creatures get reflex saves to avoid being damaged by the bullrushie). Greater Disarm: Upon a successful disarm, you may make an immediate attack with the disarmed weapon against any creature within your reach, using the same attack bonus that the disarm check was made with; you disarm the weapon in such a way that you send it flying towards an opponent. Greater Feint: You can feint as a swift action. Greater Grapple: When you make a successful unarmed attack, you may make an immediate grapple check to begin a grapple. This grapple check does not deal grapple damage, as you already dealt damage with the attack. In effect, you gain Improved Grab (this used to be Improved Grapple back in 3.0, and it exists as a feat in sources such as "Sandstorm", but calling it Greater Grapple is more simple). Greater Overrun: Overrun no longer takes an action, and it can be made as part of any movement. You may overrun multiple foes, suffering a -2 penalty on your overrun for every successive foe. You may overrun as part of a charge, ending the overrun with a charge attack (this is useful to rush past foes blocking an enemy spellcaster, for instance). Greater Sunder: Still unsure; sundering cleave is already a part of Combat Brute, and ignoring DR is already covered by Adamantine weapons. Greater Trip: Upon successfully tripping your target, you may move them anywhere within your reach, and another 5 feet for every 5 points your check exceeded theirs. This turns trip into a throw, and the foe takes damage and is prone at the end of the movement (though tumble checks could be made to safely land) (this is a modification of the Great Throw feat from OA). I also have "Supreme (Maneuver)" feats, which help balance out the bonuses larger creatures get. A "Supreme (Maneuver)" feat halves your size penalty (if you have one), and grants you a bonus equal to half the size bonus of a creature you target; this allows a tripper, for instance, to use trip reliably against giants or other larger creatures. They also allow you to use the maneuver against creatures 3 sizes larger than you, instead of just 1, allowing these maneuvers to be useful throughout the game.
ZocckCastlestorm 04-15-07, 06:55 PM	Xeviat-DM! I must say, your versions are kinda nifty. I like 'em. Of course, i still like mine too. I guess it's a Flavour thing. I really like you version of Greater Overrun best.:D I like my version of Greater Bull Rush. It all works out in the end.:cool:
Malvoi 04-15-07, 07:52 PM	Hey Zocck. I looked up Improved Bull Rush (...You also gain a +4 bonus on the opposed Strength check you make to push back the defender) and Fighter #2 would not get the +4 bonus provided by the feat because it will only apply to the attacker, not the defender. Thus Fighter #1 has a total bonus of +8 (+10 if charging) while Fighter #2 only has a +3 (assuming non-dwarf or multilegged). Regardless, I like the feats you put together. Nothing wrong with wanting to improve on what you have.
ZocckCastlestorm 04-15-07, 08:02 PM	Yes, I knew about the +4 Bonus, but the problem is the Size Mods almost always work against the PC(Medium or Small Size VS. Large + Sizes). That was what prompted me to want more Bonuses for my Bull Rush coolness.:cool: