About TWF Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

About TWF Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Watsyurname529
07-06-07, 11:07 PM Someone please explain why is it that you need to take more than one feat to be a good TWFighter? For all I see you just need TWF, which is just one feat, so why do you have to take Imp. TWF and Greater TWF?
Davro
07-07-07, 01:40 AM Because they grant you second and third off hand attacks?
Phasma Felis
07-07-07, 02:22 AM Extra attacks, sure, but total damage output isn't much better than a two-handed wielder, it's less effective against critters with DR or high AC, and it's nullified completely if you can't make a full attack. (Barring Dual Strike, which has big penalties, or five levels of tempest.)

Bottom line is that a two-hander is more versatile than a dual-wielder without needing any special feats. Making dual-wielder take multiple feats and (probably) a dedicated prestige class to be competitive is adding insult to injury.
Vaelan
07-07-07, 05:05 AM The only reason I have heard that approaches valid is that characters with large amounts of non-Strength bonus damage gain a lot from TWF. But you could solve that by requiring feats to apply problematic sources of damage to off-hand attacks, rather than requring feats of everyone.
Kouk
07-07-07, 08:28 AM Someone please explain why is it that you need to take more than one feat to be a good TWFighter? For all I see you just need TWF, which is just one feat, so why do you have to take Imp. TWF and Greater TWF?

The thread is getting a bit off topic, but I will attempt to answer your question.

Each TWF feat beyond the first only grants you one more attack with your off hand.

From Combat Chapter 9
Two-Weapon Fighting

If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways:

* If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)
* The Two-Weapon Fighting feat lessens the primary hand penalty by 2, and the off-hand penalty by 6.

Taking the first TWF feat reduces the penalties you incur for TWF. Fighting with two weapons by default only allows a single extra attack, as is the description in the Combat chapter.

When you take Improved TWF, you are allowed one extra attack with your off hand. If you never upgrade your Two-Weapon Fighting, no matter how many attacks you are allowed with your main hand, your off-hand will always be limited to one attack per round.

Note that to take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting requires a BAB of +6. When you have a BAB of +6, you are able to make 2 attacks with your main hand. If you do not take Improved TWF, you can take 2 attacks with your main hand, but still just one attack with your off hand (total of 3 attacks). By taking Improved TWF, you can now make 2 attacks with your main hand, and 2 attacks with your off-hand (total of 4 attacks).

Greater TWF gives you a third off-hand attack, giving you a total of 3 off hand attacks.

Eventually there is Perfect TWF, which just does away with any number limit, and lets you attack as many times as you can with your off hand as you can with your main hand.

None of these feats make you a "good two weapon fighter", but it gives you more attacks which you might be interested in.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Watsyurname529 07-06-07, 11:07 PM	Someone please explain why is it that you need to take more than one feat to be a good TWFighter? For all I see you just need TWF, which is just one feat, so why do you have to take Imp. TWF and Greater TWF?
Davro 07-07-07, 01:40 AM	Because they grant you second and third off hand attacks?
Phasma Felis 07-07-07, 02:22 AM	Extra attacks, sure, but total damage output isn't much better than a two-handed wielder, it's less effective against critters with DR or high AC, and it's nullified completely if you can't make a full attack. (Barring Dual Strike, which has big penalties, or five levels of tempest.) Bottom line is that a two-hander is more versatile than a dual-wielder without needing any special feats. Making dual-wielder take multiple feats and (probably) a dedicated prestige class to be competitive is adding insult to injury.
Vaelan 07-07-07, 05:05 AM	The only reason I have heard that approaches valid is that characters with large amounts of non-Strength bonus damage gain a lot from TWF. But you could solve that by requiring feats to apply problematic sources of damage to off-hand attacks, rather than requring feats of everyone.
Kouk 07-07-07, 08:28 AM	Someone please explain why is it that you need to take more than one feat to be a good TWFighter? For all I see you just need TWF, which is just one feat, so why do you have to take Imp. TWF and Greater TWF? The thread is getting a bit off topic, but I will attempt to answer your question. Each TWF feat beyond the first only grants you one more attack with your off hand. From Combat Chapter 9 Two-Weapon Fighting If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways: * If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.) * The Two-Weapon Fighting feat lessens the primary hand penalty by 2, and the off-hand penalty by 6. Taking the first TWF feat reduces the penalties you incur for TWF. Fighting with two weapons by default only allows a single extra attack, as is the description in the Combat chapter. When you take Improved TWF, you are allowed one extra attack with your off hand. If you never upgrade your Two-Weapon Fighting, no matter how many attacks you are allowed with your main hand, your off-hand will always be limited to one attack per round. Note that to take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting requires a BAB of +6. When you have a BAB of +6, you are able to make 2 attacks with your main hand. If you do not take Improved TWF, you can take 2 attacks with your main hand, but still just one attack with your off hand (total of 3 attacks). By taking Improved TWF, you can now make 2 attacks with your main hand, and 2 attacks with your off-hand (total of 4 attacks). Greater TWF gives you a third off-hand attack, giving you a total of 3 off hand attacks. Eventually there is Perfect TWF, which just does away with any number limit, and lets you attack as many times as you can with your off hand as you can with your main hand. None of these feats make you a "good two weapon fighter", but it gives you more attacks which you might be interested in.