Post/Author/DateTime	Post
laughinggranny 02-05-07, 01:12 AM	I'm sorry if this question has been asked several times but I’m having a durnd difficult time trying to find a post via the search engine and I haven’t been on these boards frequently so don’t know if this is the proper place so please indulge me. Thanks. I'm creating a high level assassin, and the level that we will be playing I expect to be running across lots of fortification, blindsight, undead, constructs, etc... Now I’ve figured almost everything out except how to bypass blindsight. Normally I’d pick the Darkstalker feat from LOM and be done with it, but in this game it's Core Only. (MM, PHB, DMG, (as well as skills and spells but no magic items from the ELH). Can you guys/girls help me out tacitly speaking? I'd like to figure out how to Death attack something with Blindsight, but right now I haven’t a clue. Thank you for your time and insight.
unusualsuspect 02-05-07, 03:51 AM	Silence can negate at least some Blindsight and Blindsense, no? Not a perfect solution, but there's unlikely to be one in a pure-core environment, i think. =/ Edit: I've got it! Etherealness! Your senses extend out to the material plane (albeit, in a shadowy filter), but only True Seeing, to my knowledge, will let THEM see YOU. And there's bound to be an item or character that can give you a quick trip to the Ethereal plane...
laughinggranny 02-05-07, 12:27 PM	So, a Ring of blink would still allow you to Sneak attack somthing with Blindsight 300', even if he had Truesight? as Truesight is only affects ocular vision? and regaurdless of the point. you still cannot death attack that individual because he is aware of your presance. Edit: But if your under the effect of an etheralness spell and step out and attack in one round you could get a death attack? I'm not sure.
Egres 02-05-07, 01:55 PM	Just stay out of the blindsight range. It's usually limited.
unusualsuspect 02-05-07, 02:13 PM	So, a Ring of blink would still allow you to Sneak attack somthing with Blindsight 300', even if he had Truesight? as Truesight is only affects ocular vision? and regaurdless of the point. you still cannot death attack that individual because he is aware of your presance. Edit: But if your under the effect of an etheralness spell and step out and attack in one round you could get a death attack? I'm not sure. Blinking transports you from the Material Plane to the Ethereal Plane AND BACK AGAIN, AGAIN, and AGAIN, which means that in the moments you are on the Material Plane, you're just as vulnerable to Blindsight detection as you are, well, normally. Thus, setting up a Death Attack with a Ring of Blinking isn't going to work. It WILL, however, as per the spell description, allow you to Sneak Attack your foe (with a 20% miss chance... ah well), as foes without True Seeing or some other means of seeing Ethereal creatures can't see where you strike. If your foe has True Seeing AND Blindsight, you're SOL... usaully they just have one or the other (or neither... glee!), so you can either sneak up to them the normal way, by hiding, or use Etherealness to bypass their blindsight. To set up a Death Attack, if I remember correctly, you have to observe your target for 3 rounds, without being observed, then attack, correct? Etherealness will allow you to Death Attack (by dismissing the spell, or waiting for it to end, or whatever) so long as the creature you're attacking can't see creatures in the Ethereal Plane. A Ghost Touch weapon might also allow it, come to think about it... though I'd have to check the rules. How awesome would that be, though? The grimlock guard scans the forest with its hearing, sure nothing has approached within 40 feet. Suddenly, 18 seconds later, a knife pierces his spine and goes up his throat to his brain, and an invisible blade withdraws, ready to claim a new victim. Awesome.
laughinggranny 02-05-07, 03:53 PM	I'm planning on using a shaped anti-magic field to block the truesights ability to see the etherial in my general location. If i recall right Ghost touch affects incorpreal creatures not etheral ones, but force effects affect both sides. so maby a Mordicanen's sword or somthing...
Derren S. 02-05-07, 03:58 PM	Mordecains sword doesn't create a sword you can wield but a sword like force effect which attacks on its own so you can't use it weapon to do death/sneak attacks. How do you create a shaped AMF in core?
Father Dale 02-05-07, 04:16 PM	Just to note that the See Invisibility spell also sees onto the ethereal plane. With the core rules, I don't think you'll have much luck against creatures with blindsight. Concealment won't help you any, although cover will, I think. i.e. you can still hide from creatures with blindsight if you have cover, since blindsight doesn't let them penetrate objects or see around corners. But HIPS, concealment, and invisibility won't work. So the only way I can see getting off death attacks with core rules against creatures with blindsight would be a melee sneak attack while hiding with cover. Not the easiest thing to accomplish. I guess another way would be to study the creature prior to its being aware of you (surprise rounds), and then getting into position and sneak attacking in the surprise round. Not sure how this could be done just with core rules though except with an ally's help or if the creature luckily moves adjacent to you while your hiding with cover.
laughinggranny 02-05-07, 04:53 PM	How bout maximized timestop? Cast spell, move and plant a tower shield, Study for 3 rounds, cast truestrike, then attack? Tower shield gives cover to attack from wherever... and truestrike virtualy assures the hit. Assuming I have a higher initiative then my target, i should beable to get the attack off. correct? Also reviewing Etherial rules you can affect the etherial from prime but not vis versa.
WinDReiN 02-05-07, 05:22 PM	I think there is a spell on assassin's spell list which allows you to make the Death Attack in a single round, no three rounds of observing needed...
halflingofthenorth 02-05-07, 07:46 PM	I'm sorry if this question has been asked several times but I’m having a durnd difficult time trying to find a post via the search engine and I haven’t been on these boards frequently so don’t know if this is the proper place so please indulge me. Thanks. I'm creating a high level assassin, and the level that we will be playing I expect to be running across lots of fortification, blindsight, undead, constructs, etc... Now I’ve figured almost everything out except how to bypass blindsight. Normally I’d pick the Darkstalker feat from LOM and be done with it, but in this game it's Core Only. (MM, PHB, DMG, (as well as skills and spells but no magic items from the ELH). Can you guys/girls help me out tacitly speaking? I'd like to figure out how to Death attack something with Blindsight, but right now I haven’t a clue. Thank you for your time and insight. aye I am also having the same difficulty eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....................lev el 5rouge/10assassin/1acrobatic theif I think there is a spell on assassin's spell list which allows you to make the Death Attack in a single round, no three rounds of observing needed... there is my buddy just gavee it to me today it is from complete mage and I think it is called death sight its like a level 4 spel swift or free action
laughinggranny 02-05-07, 07:47 PM	Witch is great except for my requirements of Core only... which rules out complete mage.
halflingofthenorth 02-05-07, 07:55 PM	Witch is great except for my requirements of Core only... which rules out complete mage. out of dumb curiosity, why?
laughinggranny 02-05-07, 08:12 PM	GM's guidelines for the game. it's epic, he has only a few books and wants to be able to referance everything himself.
primemover003 02-05-07, 08:34 PM	Observing the guy for three rounds can be done outside of the limit of his blindsight... you then have THREE more rounds to make the attack. Have a minor summoned ally to flank and you're golden. What you need to do if hit him while he's in a crowded place. With multiple people all around him, one more won't really register. You could always disguise yourself as an ally of his, pass the spot check and viola, instant get close free card.
Millennium 02-05-07, 09:00 PM	Blindsight is, as a rule, much harder to fool than blindsense is. Honestly, you may have better luck getting around it than through. Find something you can use that will stun the target for a round or two -injury poisons may be your best bet- and deliver it via a ranged attack from outside the creature's blindsight. You can study the target while you're setting up for the shot. Then rush in on your next turn and deliver the death attack.
Father Dale 02-05-07, 10:20 PM	The problem is that to do a death attack the target must not be "aware" of the assassin. Thats very difficult to pull off against a creature with blindsight and only using the core rules. Even if he moves from hiding in a surprise round and charges to make an attack, the target will be aware of the attacker, even if flatfooted. Getting a sneak attack is not as difficult since it will apply if he can flank the target or otherwise deny it its dex. Getting the death attack will require substantially more work.
primemover003 02-05-07, 10:24 PM	Father the target cannot be aware of the Assassin ONLY during the 3 rounds of Study. He then gets 3 more rounds to set up the Sneak Attack. It's really not that hard to do.
halflingofthenorth 02-06-07, 05:44 PM	oh ok I see now GM's guidelines for the game. it's epic, he has only a few books and wants to be able to referance everything himself.
uneasyspider 04-29-07, 06:51 AM	darkstalker feat in the lords of madness, I believe, has no prereq. Makes it near impossible for a high skilled rogue to be noticed. I know because my party laughed at me for gettting blindsight as now alllll the monsters have this feat *rolls eyes*
Luis_Dragunov 04-29-07, 09:56 AM	darkstalker feat in the lords of madness, I believe, has no prereq. The OP is playing with core material only :) But on another note, Blindsight isn't a simply ability. Usually it represents a way of sensing your surroundings but without using visual means. This can be echolocation, sensing the movement of the air, tasting the air around you or feeling the vibrations through the ground (although I think tremorsense is more specific in that manner). Either way, you just have to find out which method the creature uses and then counter-act it. If it uses echolocation, I suggest you use bulky, porous clothes to absorb the ultrasonic waves. If it tastes the air, cover yourself in dirt or air and pray that your concentration checks allow you not to sweat too much :P If it's the vibrations through the ground, I suggest boots of flying or an item with the skate power of.. oh, core only, I almost forgot. If it senses the air around them, smack your DM on the back of the head for watching too many wuxia movies.
Fallenangel359 05-01-07, 10:23 PM	I came up with a complicated way of not being detected... ring if sequestering, shadowdancer, pixie, 1 warlock for entropic warding, wand of ranger spell called camoflage, non detection with a high caster level... non detection blocks trueseeing, ring of sequestering is only bypassed by trueseeing and mundane trails... shadow dancer for an extra umph, same for pixie invisibility camoflage helps hide checks...
Feroz 05-01-07, 10:43 PM	Father the target cannot be aware of the Assassin ONLY during the 3 rounds of Study. He then gets 3 more rounds to set up the Sneak Attack. It's really not that hard to do. Actually, the target can be aware of the assassin at any time, he just can't be aware of the threat he poses while the assassin studies him. Which makes it easy with a good disguise(especially alter self) or a crowd to make your closeness to him practically unnoticeable.