add to BAB? [Archive] - Wizards Community

add to BAB? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bedlamtom
08-10-07, 03:26 AM Are there any feats that grant a plus one to BAB?
DM Zoc
08-10-07, 03:44 AM No, that would be too powerful. BAB is one of the major things which are used to restrict entry into prestige classes. There is also no feat that lets you add ranks to a skill past the natural limit, for the same reason.
runestar
08-10-07, 03:52 AM Too useful for 3/4 and 1/2 bab classes.
JadeSpider9643
08-10-07, 08:14 AM BAB is one of those foundational things that you can never enhance directly. Like your base fortitude save, or your Hit Dice.

Anything you get from BAB (namely more attacks and better attack bonuses) can be achieved seperately by other means. TWF, haste, speed weapons, monk's flurry...these will get you more attacks. Weapon Focus, weapon finesse, zen archery, flanking...these can all increase your attack bonuses.
tarkin
08-10-07, 11:38 AM As Jade spider discussed, the closes you can get is something like Weapon Focus.
Kouk
08-10-07, 01:25 PM It's not a feat, but there is a weapon enchantment that grants a Cleric's BAB when using that weapon (for Wizards and low BAB multiclassers).
Obsidianjaerc
08-10-07, 02:42 PM For reference sake, your saves are not the same sort of implied "base", since there exists Great Fortitude, Lightening Reflexes, and Iron Will. Also, while I simply don't feel that a flat increase to BAB is balancable in a meaningful way, I do think that being able to treat your BAB as a higher number for certain purposes is occasionally allowable.
Khedron
08-10-07, 03:06 PM For reference sake, your saves are not the same sort of implied "base", since there exists Great Fortitude, Lightening Reflexes, and Iron Will. Also, while I simply don't feel that a flat increase to BAB is balancable in a meaningful way, I do think that being able to treat your BAB as a higher number for certain purposes is occasionally allowable.

You do have base saves which are based on your class and level. The feats mentioned only provide bonuses, they do not increase the base save.

As has been previously mentioned, you cannot increase your BAB, however there are several ways to add bonuses to your attack roll.
Jackmojo
08-10-07, 04:08 PM Eh we just need a feat like Practiced Spellcaster for BAB, then we could take away the last thing the fighter was clinging too for life :devil:

Name: Fighter's Suck

Prerequisite: +3 BAB

Benefit: Increase you Base Attack Bonus by up to +4 but no more then your Hit Dice.

Jack
Novabomb
08-10-07, 04:14 PM No, that would be too powerful. BAB is one of the major things which are used to restrict entry into prestige classes. There is also no feat that lets you add ranks to a skill past the natural limit, for the same reason.

This is actually incorrect, cityscape has a feat that does increase the ranks in a skill past the normal limit (by one).
DM Zoc
08-10-07, 07:59 PM This is actually incorrect, cityscape has a feat that does increase the ranks in a skill past the normal limit (by one).

That's one of the most broken feats I've ever heard of, then. In any case, skill limits have traditionally been used as a means to delay entry into a Prestige Class, and whatever feat that is is designed specifically to allow early entry into a Prestige Class.

It does set a terrible precedence, though.
Morwen
08-10-07, 09:35 PM That's one of the most broken feats I've ever heard of, then.

Not really. It requires another feat as a prerequisite, and can only be taken once.
runestar
08-10-07, 11:25 PM That's one of the most broken feats I've ever heard of, then. In any case, skill limits have traditionally been used as a means to delay entry into a Prestige Class, and whatever feat that is is designed specifically to allow early entry into a Prestige Class.

It does set a terrible precedence, though.

It is far from broken for the relatively minor benefit, but I agree that it does set a bad precedent. Oh well, lets just hope this does not open a floodgate in future (by designers looking to one-up existing material just to add that "oomph" factor to future splatbooks).
StevenO
08-10-07, 11:33 PM Are there any feats that grant a plus one to BAB?
I believe there is an Epic Feat available after 20th level that gives you +1 all attacks that probably adds to your effective BAB for purposes other than iterative attacks.

Aside from Practiced Spellcaster being focused on one class this is how I'd see a "Practice Warrior" feat.

Practiced Warrior
Prereq: +1 BAB
Benefit: You get an effective +4 BAB (up to HD) when determining itterative attacks and feat prereqs and use. This does not increase your ACTUAL attack bonus.
runestar
08-11-07, 12:38 AM I believe there is an Epic Feat available after 20th level that gives you +1 all attacks that probably adds to your effective BAB for purposes other than iterative attacks.

Epic prowess, but it only grants +1 to all attack rolls, and does not count as bab for related abilities.
Obsidianjaerc
08-11-07, 12:39 AM Whereas my take is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13375282&postcount=14). [/shameless plug].
Bedlamtom
08-11-07, 12:00 PM The best I was hoping for was a virtual bab...but I didn't expect to find it. I'm just trying to qualify for a prc early. I really don't think anything that increases actual bab is a good idea, but that wouldn't stop me from using it if Wizards had published it.

Thanks for all your reponses folks!

Bedlam
Tallow
08-11-07, 12:44 PM For reference sake, your saves are not the same sort of implied "base", since there exists Great Fortitude, Lightening Reflexes, and Iron Will. Also, while I simply don't feel that a flat increase to BAB is balancable in a meaningful way, I do think that being able to treat your BAB as a higher number for certain purposes is occasionally allowable.

Actually I believe the feats that give bonuses on saves are just that, bonuses. They don't increase the base save, they add a bonus. True, the feats give an unnamed bonus, but they are not inherently increasing the base save. Semantics when it considers saving throws, but should there ever become a feat or prestige class that requires a base save at a certain amount, this becomes an important hair to split.

The spell Divine Power gives you a Fighter base attack bonus at your level (including iterative attacks), 18 STR, and extra hit points for 1 round per level of the caster.

An additional note, there are several feats out there (specifically in Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel) that allow you to combine the levels of two different classes in which you are multiclassed, to gain benefits from both classes (in only certain class abilities) as though you had the level of the two classes combined. Acetic Rogue, for example, allows you to use the combined levels for Monk's unarmed damage and the Rogue's total sneak attack dice. I think there is also one that allows you to use combined levels for a monk's flurry of blows progression.

Andy
Morwen
08-11-07, 12:50 PM but should there ever become a feat or prestige class that requires a base save at a certain amount, this becomes an important hair to split.

There are at least two Prestige Classes that do this already. Crimson Scourge from Cityscape and Nosomatic Chirurgeon from Dragonmarked both require a Base Fortitude save of +3.
unundindur
08-11-07, 12:50 PM Question: Can spells do the same to PrCs as Items can do to feat prerequisites?

Could I as a cleric cast divine power to raise my BaB, which makes me qualify for a PrC? This would of course make all parts of the PrC only viable when i have divine power active, but after my BaB increased to its needed levle the PrC should sustain itself...

Is my logic flawed? It would be horrible if this trick is possible...:(
Tallow
08-11-07, 12:57 PM Question: Can spells do the same to PrCs as Items can do to feat prerequisites?

Could I as a cleric cast divine power to raise my BaB, which makes me qualify for a PrC? This would of course make all parts of the PrC only viable when i have divine power active, but after my BaB increased to its needed levle the PrC should sustain itself...

Is my logic flawed? It would be horrible if this trick is possible...:(

My initial reaction... no way in hell!

My secondary reaction... hmm... interesting thought...

My real answer:

The spell Divine Power lasts for 1 round per level of the caster. (if out of a base magic item, it would only last for 7 rounds.)

I believe that there is a paragraph somewhere in the book (perhaps the intro to prestige classes, or what happens when you gain a level) that discusses what's implied in gaining a level.

That its implied that you are training your entire level 7 prior to gaining level 8, for whatever it is you are going to take at level 8. Some GM's actually make you take some down time in a city to gain that level 8.

As such, lets say you have 8 - 4th level spells (20th level caster with a high Wisdom), and you cast them all. That's still only 2 minutes per casting, for a total of 16 minutes a day.

As a GM, I would certainly rule that this is not enough time to actually successfully train in the new PrC or Feat.

Andy
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
08-11-07, 02:06 PM There are at least two Prestige Classes that do this already. Crimson Scourge from Cityscape and Nosomatic Chirurgeon from Dragonmarked both require a Base Fortitude save of +3.

As do the Cloud Anchorite from Frostburn (Base Fort of +5), the Hidecarved Dragon from Draconomicon (Base Will of +12), the Master of Shrouds from Libris Mortis (base Will of +5), the Sacred Purifier from Libris Mortis (base Will of +5), the Ephemeral Exemplar from Libris Mortis (base Will of +5), and the Tomb Warden from Libris Mortis (base Will of +5).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bedlamtom 08-10-07, 03:26 AM	Are there any feats that grant a plus one to BAB?
DM Zoc 08-10-07, 03:44 AM	No, that would be too powerful. BAB is one of the major things which are used to restrict entry into prestige classes. There is also no feat that lets you add ranks to a skill past the natural limit, for the same reason.
runestar 08-10-07, 03:52 AM	Too useful for 3/4 and 1/2 bab classes.
JadeSpider9643 08-10-07, 08:14 AM	BAB is one of those foundational things that you can never enhance directly. Like your base fortitude save, or your Hit Dice. Anything you get from BAB (namely more attacks and better attack bonuses) can be achieved seperately by other means. TWF, haste, speed weapons, monk's flurry...these will get you more attacks. Weapon Focus, weapon finesse, zen archery, flanking...these can all increase your attack bonuses.
tarkin 08-10-07, 11:38 AM	As Jade spider discussed, the closes you can get is something like Weapon Focus.
Kouk 08-10-07, 01:25 PM	It's not a feat, but there is a weapon enchantment that grants a Cleric's BAB when using that weapon (for Wizards and low BAB multiclassers).
Obsidianjaerc 08-10-07, 02:42 PM	For reference sake, your saves are not the same sort of implied "base", since there exists Great Fortitude, Lightening Reflexes, and Iron Will. Also, while I simply don't feel that a flat increase to BAB is balancable in a meaningful way, I do think that being able to treat your BAB as a higher number for certain purposes is occasionally allowable.
Khedron 08-10-07, 03:06 PM	For reference sake, your saves are not the same sort of implied "base", since there exists Great Fortitude, Lightening Reflexes, and Iron Will. Also, while I simply don't feel that a flat increase to BAB is balancable in a meaningful way, I do think that being able to treat your BAB as a higher number for certain purposes is occasionally allowable. You do have base saves which are based on your class and level. The feats mentioned only provide bonuses, they do not increase the base save. As has been previously mentioned, you cannot increase your BAB, however there are several ways to add bonuses to your attack roll.
Jackmojo 08-10-07, 04:08 PM	Eh we just need a feat like Practiced Spellcaster for BAB, then we could take away the last thing the fighter was clinging too for life :devil: Name: Fighter's Suck Prerequisite: +3 BAB Benefit: Increase you Base Attack Bonus by up to +4 but no more then your Hit Dice. Jack
Novabomb 08-10-07, 04:14 PM	No, that would be too powerful. BAB is one of the major things which are used to restrict entry into prestige classes. There is also no feat that lets you add ranks to a skill past the natural limit, for the same reason. This is actually incorrect, cityscape has a feat that does increase the ranks in a skill past the normal limit (by one).
DM Zoc 08-10-07, 07:59 PM	This is actually incorrect, cityscape has a feat that does increase the ranks in a skill past the normal limit (by one). That's one of the most broken feats I've ever heard of, then. In any case, skill limits have traditionally been used as a means to delay entry into a Prestige Class, and whatever feat that is is designed specifically to allow early entry into a Prestige Class. It does set a terrible precedence, though.
Morwen 08-10-07, 09:35 PM	That's one of the most broken feats I've ever heard of, then. Not really. It requires another feat as a prerequisite, and can only be taken once.
runestar 08-10-07, 11:25 PM	That's one of the most broken feats I've ever heard of, then. In any case, skill limits have traditionally been used as a means to delay entry into a Prestige Class, and whatever feat that is is designed specifically to allow early entry into a Prestige Class. It does set a terrible precedence, though. It is far from broken for the relatively minor benefit, but I agree that it does set a bad precedent. Oh well, lets just hope this does not open a floodgate in future (by designers looking to one-up existing material just to add that "oomph" factor to future splatbooks).
StevenO 08-10-07, 11:33 PM	Are there any feats that grant a plus one to BAB? I believe there is an Epic Feat available after 20th level that gives you +1 all attacks that probably adds to your effective BAB for purposes other than iterative attacks. Aside from Practiced Spellcaster being focused on one class this is how I'd see a "Practice Warrior" feat. Practiced Warrior Prereq: +1 BAB Benefit: You get an effective +4 BAB (up to HD) when determining itterative attacks and feat prereqs and use. This does not increase your ACTUAL attack bonus.
runestar 08-11-07, 12:38 AM	I believe there is an Epic Feat available after 20th level that gives you +1 all attacks that probably adds to your effective BAB for purposes other than iterative attacks. Epic prowess, but it only grants +1 to all attack rolls, and does not count as bab for related abilities.
Obsidianjaerc 08-11-07, 12:39 AM	Whereas my take is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13375282&postcount=14). [/shameless plug].
Bedlamtom 08-11-07, 12:00 PM	The best I was hoping for was a virtual bab...but I didn't expect to find it. I'm just trying to qualify for a prc early. I really don't think anything that increases actual bab is a good idea, but that wouldn't stop me from using it if Wizards had published it. Thanks for all your reponses folks! Bedlam
Tallow 08-11-07, 12:44 PM	For reference sake, your saves are not the same sort of implied "base", since there exists Great Fortitude, Lightening Reflexes, and Iron Will. Also, while I simply don't feel that a flat increase to BAB is balancable in a meaningful way, I do think that being able to treat your BAB as a higher number for certain purposes is occasionally allowable. Actually I believe the feats that give bonuses on saves are just that, bonuses. They don't increase the base save, they add a bonus. True, the feats give an unnamed bonus, but they are not inherently increasing the base save. Semantics when it considers saving throws, but should there ever become a feat or prestige class that requires a base save at a certain amount, this becomes an important hair to split. The spell Divine Power gives you a Fighter base attack bonus at your level (including iterative attacks), 18 STR, and extra hit points for 1 round per level of the caster. An additional note, there are several feats out there (specifically in Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel) that allow you to combine the levels of two different classes in which you are multiclassed, to gain benefits from both classes (in only certain class abilities) as though you had the level of the two classes combined. Acetic Rogue, for example, allows you to use the combined levels for Monk's unarmed damage and the Rogue's total sneak attack dice. I think there is also one that allows you to use combined levels for a monk's flurry of blows progression. Andy
Morwen 08-11-07, 12:50 PM	but should there ever become a feat or prestige class that requires a base save at a certain amount, this becomes an important hair to split. There are at least two Prestige Classes that do this already. Crimson Scourge from Cityscape and Nosomatic Chirurgeon from Dragonmarked both require a Base Fortitude save of +3.
unundindur 08-11-07, 12:50 PM	Question: Can spells do the same to PrCs as Items can do to feat prerequisites? Could I as a cleric cast divine power to raise my BaB, which makes me qualify for a PrC? This would of course make all parts of the PrC only viable when i have divine power active, but after my BaB increased to its needed levle the PrC should sustain itself... Is my logic flawed? It would be horrible if this trick is possible...:(
Tallow 08-11-07, 12:57 PM	Question: Can spells do the same to PrCs as Items can do to feat prerequisites? Could I as a cleric cast divine power to raise my BaB, which makes me qualify for a PrC? This would of course make all parts of the PrC only viable when i have divine power active, but after my BaB increased to its needed levle the PrC should sustain itself... Is my logic flawed? It would be horrible if this trick is possible...:( My initial reaction... no way in hell! My secondary reaction... hmm... interesting thought... My real answer: The spell Divine Power lasts for 1 round per level of the caster. (if out of a base magic item, it would only last for 7 rounds.) I believe that there is a paragraph somewhere in the book (perhaps the intro to prestige classes, or what happens when you gain a level) that discusses what's implied in gaining a level. That its implied that you are training your entire level 7 prior to gaining level 8, for whatever it is you are going to take at level 8. Some GM's actually make you take some down time in a city to gain that level 8. As such, lets say you have 8 - 4th level spells (20th level caster with a high Wisdom), and you cast them all. That's still only 2 minutes per casting, for a total of 16 minutes a day. As a GM, I would certainly rule that this is not enough time to actually successfully train in the new PrC or Feat. Andy
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 08-11-07, 02:06 PM	There are at least two Prestige Classes that do this already. Crimson Scourge from Cityscape and Nosomatic Chirurgeon from Dragonmarked both require a Base Fortitude save of +3. As do the Cloud Anchorite from Frostburn (Base Fort of +5), the Hidecarved Dragon from Draconomicon (Base Will of +12), the Master of Shrouds from Libris Mortis (base Will of +5), the Sacred Purifier from Libris Mortis (base Will of +5), the Ephemeral Exemplar from Libris Mortis (base Will of +5), and the Tomb Warden from Libris Mortis (base Will of +5).