Alchemy question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alchemy question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sinperkiller
04-19-08, 01:23 PM i have taken the alchemy craft for my D&D character and the question came to me once and i asked about it. i asked for what i would need to make potions and what not for the party. and the dm looked at me with a blank stare and said i dont know. so since then the search has been on for some kind of list for materials needed for each item. the reason i asked cuz we have other people in our party that might be able to help in making some of the items. and we are not only looking for a list for Alchemy but also for other feats such as craft rod, craft wands etc. does a list such as this exist is any of the books??
Fireclave
04-19-08, 02:27 PM so since then the search has been on for some kind of list for materials needed for each item. the reason i asked cuz we have other people in our party that might be able to help in making some of the items.
There is no official list for materials needed to create magic or alchemical items AFAIK. The minutiae of what materials you need for item creation is assumed to have been handled by paying the crafting costs of the item. So when I pay the 25gp×spell level×caster level to create a potion, it is assumed that I have all the eye of newt, wing of bat, or what not that I need.

If you allies what to help "gathering" the materials, they need only fork over some cash the next time you go into town. If you want to share the XP costs, this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) would be of interest to you.

Of course, if handling item creation in this way feels too sterile and unimaginative, you can create your own list of magical regents if you like, and perhaps add rules that allow certain items to affect the item creation process in more varied ways, such has having rarer ingredients substitute for some of the XP cost or decrease crafting time.
sinperkiller
04-19-08, 02:33 PM see the reason why i was asking was if i fail the roll by 1-3 or what it is it says that half of the mats are gone and well if theres someone in the group that can skin animals or what ever and i need hair from a bear or something why should i pay the cost again to get more hair if my party member can just go out kill something and give me the hair?i mean if we made a list of what mats are needed for each item i want to create and we can gather them cuz of our groups crafts or professions, why should someone have to spend more money if a party member could give can just give me the item? like who would i pay for the mats if my party members and i are gathering all the mats for the item? and if we have some of the items and still have to buy the rest, would it be still be the same price?
Fireclave
04-19-08, 05:14 PM I understand your argument. However, the item creation rules are specifically vague because 1) for most people, the tedium of keeping track of miscellanous items would get in the way of enjoyment of the game, 2) (similiar to one) using a straight gp cost is more streamlined and simplier for gameplay, 3) on of the primary balancing factors of the is wealth-by-level, and allowing "free materials" could potentially upset that if you're not careful, and to a lesser extent, 4) leaves the decisions of exactly how magic in your campaign setting works, how it affects your campaign's economy, and what pains the PCs have to go through to get said materials, up to you and your group.

Someone on these broads probably has a custom ingredient system if you don't feel like making your own.

if we have some of the items and still have to buy the rest, would it be still be the same price?
I would assume that the price would be lower unless the materials you currently have are rather inconquestial to the creation of the item or extremely easy to gather. For example, let's say you needed to fifty dandelion flowers and 50gp shard of ruby to create...er...something. Both would be necessary, but spending a few minutes in the backyard weeding your garden probably won't do much for the item cost.
sinperkiller
04-19-08, 05:48 PM thank you ill talk it over with our dm and see what she says. i think making a material list wouldnt be that hard for right now since we are only low level and the stuff we can create is limited. i understand where youre coming from. i wouldnt consider trying to get a mass of materials but yes if its free that could sway the gp value. i searched and found a small material list but some of the items needed were off the wall. like for a low level healing potion needed like a pint of cleric blood level 13+ and for the second level potion you needed like 4 pints. i dont think a cleric would want to give that amount all at once or even a school of clerics for a 5 member party thats alot of blood. so yea ill talk it over with my dm and see what she wants to do about it. i just wanted to try to being some kind of logic to it or maybe something in my head just wanted to make it all complicated who knows ^_^
MorandirNailo
04-19-08, 11:07 PM You do have the Brew Potion feat, right? Going from your post it sounds like you don't, and you need that in order to make magical potions. When you make a potion, you don't have to make any Craft rolls; you just pay the GP and XP costs (and spend the necessary time). All of this is covered in the DMG. You can also read the magic item crafting rules here (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/magicItems.htm).

Mor
sinperkiller
04-21-08, 12:31 AM so i can not make like healing potions or antidote potions without the brew potions feat? and with this feat i dont have to make a craft check?
Fireclave
04-21-08, 02:19 AM so i can not make like healing potions or antidote potions without the brew potions feat? and with this feat i dont have to make a craft check?
For the most part, yes. Potions are alchemical items are, mechanically, completely different items and follow different rules for their creation.

Potions are literally spells in liquid form, and are therefore magic items. A example of a healing potion would be a Potion of Cure Light Wounds, and antidote potions would most likely be a Potion of Neutralize Poison. Making ANY magic item does not require a skill checks at all, but do require the proper feat, along with the prerequisite gold, time, and XP.

Alchemic items are not magical, and their effects are generally minor compared to potions. There is one alchemic item that I know of that can be used for healing. It's the Healing Salve in Tomb and Blood has basically the same effect of a potion of Cure Light Wounds, but it takes longer to use. Officially, that's as powerful of a healing effect you are going to get for a officially printed nonmagical item. And while you can't create an antidote potion with Craft (alchemy), you can create antitoxin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#antitoxin), which provides a sizable +5 alchemic bonus on fort saves vs poisons. Very handy.

Also note that there are more alchemic items than those described in the PH, but they are scattered throughout different source books.
sinperkiller
04-21-08, 06:05 PM ok so one last question, so does that mean by me putting ranks in alchemy, that it was a complete waste for making potions?
Nephlite
04-21-08, 06:13 PM ok so one last question, so does that mean by me putting ranks in alchemy, that it was a complete waste for making potions?

Yep. You can make alchemy item if you have a caster level: Tanglefoot bags are nice.
sinperkiller
04-21-08, 06:32 PM ok well then im guessing i should go read up on brewing potions then. thank you for your help
Oliver D'Argent
04-21-08, 06:51 PM ok so one last question, so does that mean by me putting ranks in alchemy, that it was a complete waste for making potions?

If your desire is to make things like healing potions, potions of Enlarge Person and the like, then yes - you would need the Brew Potion feat and have levels in a caster class that gives you access to the spells you want to put into potions. Warlocks get the ability at 12th level to fake the spell requirements for item creation, but such a character would still need the proper item creation feat.

That said, there are a number of alchemical items that could prove quite useful and, depending on your campaign, having something useful to do between adventures could be handy.
celestialkin
04-21-08, 06:52 PM If you allies what to help "gathering" the materials, they need only fork over some cash the next time you go into town. If you want to share the XP costs, this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) would be of interest to you.

Thank you for linking this article!

This is exactly what I needed. Very much appreciated.
celestialkin
04-21-08, 06:57 PM hat said, there are a number of alchemical items that could prove quite useful and, depending on your campaign, having something useful to do between adventures could be handy.

Agreed. I have always enjoyed the crafting skills (even though WotC decided to can them. :raincloud).

Here is a useful member made list of alchemical items:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=934911

Needless to say, I have used this list quite a few times so far, and I will certainly use it again.
sinperkiller
04-21-08, 11:36 PM ok well in that case i guess from now on i will be looking into using the brew potions feat. im not sure how i would make a dc check for it but that i think i can look up
Oliver D'Argent
04-22-08, 07:26 AM ok well in that case i guess from now on i will be looking into using the brew potions feat. im not sure how i would make a dc check for it but that i think i can look up

With the Brew Potions feat, no DC check is needed. Just follow the rules for magic item creation - spend half the potion's base price in gold pieces, divide the potion's base price by 25 and spend that many experience points, and spend one day crafting the potion.

The base price of a potion is 50 gp X the level of the spell X the level the spell is cast at (which must be at least the minimum level needed to cast the spell, and cannot be more than your own caster level).

If you brew a potion with a spell that has a material component with a listed cost, or that costs experience points to cast, those costs are added to the regular creation costs.

Potions can only hold up to third level spells, and spells that have a range of Personal cannot be made into potions.
DX2052
04-22-08, 01:46 PM Perhaps some house rule for survival could achieve the effect you want.

something along the the lines of

By makeing a DC__ survival check and investing #d# hours , the cost of a potion may be reduced by __%

Or go the extra mile and make the check variable, depending on how well the check goes, the cost of a potion is linearly reduced.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sinperkiller 04-19-08, 01:23 PM	i have taken the alchemy craft for my D&D character and the question came to me once and i asked about it. i asked for what i would need to make potions and what not for the party. and the dm looked at me with a blank stare and said i dont know. so since then the search has been on for some kind of list for materials needed for each item. the reason i asked cuz we have other people in our party that might be able to help in making some of the items. and we are not only looking for a list for Alchemy but also for other feats such as craft rod, craft wands etc. does a list such as this exist is any of the books??
Fireclave 04-19-08, 02:27 PM	so since then the search has been on for some kind of list for materials needed for each item. the reason i asked cuz we have other people in our party that might be able to help in making some of the items. There is no official list for materials needed to create magic or alchemical items AFAIK. The minutiae of what materials you need for item creation is assumed to have been handled by paying the crafting costs of the item. So when I pay the 25gp×spell level×caster level to create a potion, it is assumed that I have all the eye of newt, wing of bat, or what not that I need. If you allies what to help "gathering" the materials, they need only fork over some cash the next time you go into town. If you want to share the XP costs, this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) would be of interest to you. Of course, if handling item creation in this way feels too sterile and unimaginative, you can create your own list of magical regents if you like, and perhaps add rules that allow certain items to affect the item creation process in more varied ways, such has having rarer ingredients substitute for some of the XP cost or decrease crafting time.
sinperkiller 04-19-08, 02:33 PM	see the reason why i was asking was if i fail the roll by 1-3 or what it is it says that half of the mats are gone and well if theres someone in the group that can skin animals or what ever and i need hair from a bear or something why should i pay the cost again to get more hair if my party member can just go out kill something and give me the hair?i mean if we made a list of what mats are needed for each item i want to create and we can gather them cuz of our groups crafts or professions, why should someone have to spend more money if a party member could give can just give me the item? like who would i pay for the mats if my party members and i are gathering all the mats for the item? and if we have some of the items and still have to buy the rest, would it be still be the same price?
Fireclave 04-19-08, 05:14 PM	I understand your argument. However, the item creation rules are specifically vague because 1) for most people, the tedium of keeping track of miscellanous items would get in the way of enjoyment of the game, 2) (similiar to one) using a straight gp cost is more streamlined and simplier for gameplay, 3) on of the primary balancing factors of the is wealth-by-level, and allowing "free materials" could potentially upset that if you're not careful, and to a lesser extent, 4) leaves the decisions of exactly how magic in your campaign setting works, how it affects your campaign's economy, and what pains the PCs have to go through to get said materials, up to you and your group. Someone on these broads probably has a custom ingredient system if you don't feel like making your own. if we have some of the items and still have to buy the rest, would it be still be the same price? I would assume that the price would be lower unless the materials you currently have are rather inconquestial to the creation of the item or extremely easy to gather. For example, let's say you needed to fifty dandelion flowers and 50gp shard of ruby to create...er...something. Both would be necessary, but spending a few minutes in the backyard weeding your garden probably won't do much for the item cost.
sinperkiller 04-19-08, 05:48 PM	thank you ill talk it over with our dm and see what she says. i think making a material list wouldnt be that hard for right now since we are only low level and the stuff we can create is limited. i understand where youre coming from. i wouldnt consider trying to get a mass of materials but yes if its free that could sway the gp value. i searched and found a small material list but some of the items needed were off the wall. like for a low level healing potion needed like a pint of cleric blood level 13+ and for the second level potion you needed like 4 pints. i dont think a cleric would want to give that amount all at once or even a school of clerics for a 5 member party thats alot of blood. so yea ill talk it over with my dm and see what she wants to do about it. i just wanted to try to being some kind of logic to it or maybe something in my head just wanted to make it all complicated who knows ^_^
MorandirNailo 04-19-08, 11:07 PM	You do have the Brew Potion feat, right? Going from your post it sounds like you don't, and you need that in order to make magical potions. When you make a potion, you don't have to make any Craft rolls; you just pay the GP and XP costs (and spend the necessary time). All of this is covered in the DMG. You can also read the magic item crafting rules here (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/magicItems.htm). Mor
sinperkiller 04-21-08, 12:31 AM	so i can not make like healing potions or antidote potions without the brew potions feat? and with this feat i dont have to make a craft check?
Fireclave 04-21-08, 02:19 AM	so i can not make like healing potions or antidote potions without the brew potions feat? and with this feat i dont have to make a craft check? For the most part, yes. Potions are alchemical items are, mechanically, completely different items and follow different rules for their creation. Potions are literally spells in liquid form, and are therefore magic items. A example of a healing potion would be a Potion of Cure Light Wounds, and antidote potions would most likely be a Potion of Neutralize Poison. Making ANY magic item does not require a skill checks at all, but do require the proper feat, along with the prerequisite gold, time, and XP. Alchemic items are not magical, and their effects are generally minor compared to potions. There is one alchemic item that I know of that can be used for healing. It's the Healing Salve in Tomb and Blood has basically the same effect of a potion of Cure Light Wounds, but it takes longer to use. Officially, that's as powerful of a healing effect you are going to get for a officially printed nonmagical item. And while you can't create an antidote potion with Craft (alchemy), you can create antitoxin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#antitoxin), which provides a sizable +5 alchemic bonus on fort saves vs poisons. Very handy. Also note that there are more alchemic items than those described in the PH, but they are scattered throughout different source books.
sinperkiller 04-21-08, 06:05 PM	ok so one last question, so does that mean by me putting ranks in alchemy, that it was a complete waste for making potions?
Nephlite 04-21-08, 06:13 PM	ok so one last question, so does that mean by me putting ranks in alchemy, that it was a complete waste for making potions? Yep. You can make alchemy item if you have a caster level: Tanglefoot bags are nice.
sinperkiller 04-21-08, 06:32 PM	ok well then im guessing i should go read up on brewing potions then. thank you for your help
Oliver D'Argent 04-21-08, 06:51 PM	ok so one last question, so does that mean by me putting ranks in alchemy, that it was a complete waste for making potions? If your desire is to make things like healing potions, potions of Enlarge Person and the like, then yes - you would need the Brew Potion feat and have levels in a caster class that gives you access to the spells you want to put into potions. Warlocks get the ability at 12th level to fake the spell requirements for item creation, but such a character would still need the proper item creation feat. That said, there are a number of alchemical items that could prove quite useful and, depending on your campaign, having something useful to do between adventures could be handy.
celestialkin 04-21-08, 06:52 PM	If you allies what to help "gathering" the materials, they need only fork over some cash the next time you go into town. If you want to share the XP costs, this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) would be of interest to you. Thank you for linking this article! This is exactly what I needed. Very much appreciated.
celestialkin 04-21-08, 06:57 PM	hat said, there are a number of alchemical items that could prove quite useful and, depending on your campaign, having something useful to do between adventures could be handy. Agreed. I have always enjoyed the crafting skills (even though WotC decided to can them. :raincloud). Here is a useful member made list of alchemical items: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=934911 Needless to say, I have used this list quite a few times so far, and I will certainly use it again.
sinperkiller 04-21-08, 11:36 PM	ok well in that case i guess from now on i will be looking into using the brew potions feat. im not sure how i would make a dc check for it but that i think i can look up
Oliver D'Argent 04-22-08, 07:26 AM	ok well in that case i guess from now on i will be looking into using the brew potions feat. im not sure how i would make a dc check for it but that i think i can look up With the Brew Potions feat, no DC check is needed. Just follow the rules for magic item creation - spend half the potion's base price in gold pieces, divide the potion's base price by 25 and spend that many experience points, and spend one day crafting the potion. The base price of a potion is 50 gp X the level of the spell X the level the spell is cast at (which must be at least the minimum level needed to cast the spell, and cannot be more than your own caster level). If you brew a potion with a spell that has a material component with a listed cost, or that costs experience points to cast, those costs are added to the regular creation costs. Potions can only hold up to third level spells, and spells that have a range of Personal cannot be made into potions.
DX2052 04-22-08, 01:46 PM	Perhaps some house rule for survival could achieve the effect you want. something along the the lines of By makeing a DC__ survival check and investing #d# hours , the cost of a potion may be reduced by __% Or go the extra mile and make the check variable, depending on how well the check goes, the cost of a potion is linearly reduced.