Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Threefists 12-21-07, 08:46 AM	Now, Alchemy can be a great skill. You can make all sorts of handy little items, such as Stonebreaker Acid to deal with the pesky Stone Golemns or that bridge the Hobgoblins are using to cross over into Dwarven territory, Gravebane to deal with the mindless undead and give the Cleric time to fire off a Turn Undead, or a batch of Restful Candles to help the party recover quicker. That said, a great deal of it's more useful, and not just in the combat uses either, such as Acid, Tindertwigs and Anti-Toxin, cannot be created unless you are a Spellcaster. To which I cry "WTF?" and ask if there has been any Errata to this? It seems to me that making Acid, while requiring a working (at least!) knowledge of chemistry, should not also require the knowledge of how to turn the mystical forces of the universe to your will! For the most part, the Alchemical items seem to be chemical, rather than mystical, in action. Alchemist's Fire seems to be a very thick form of oil mixed with the right amount of combustible minerals and elements. Likewise the Tanglefoot bag seems to be a variation of the science experiment where you have the 'snake' of charcol or whatever it is that grows when exposed to heat, albeit with a variation of being sticky for a very short amount of time before hardening out and becoming brittle. Again, Chemical rather than Mystical. However, in favour of the designers, it's a bit more difficult to describe the Sunrod or the Thunderstone as mere chemical reactions. The Sunrod could be described as a form of flare, the gold a thing layer covering a mixture of elements similar to what might be found in a modern-day flare, but again it's effect seems more like a Light spell than a Flare. Thunderstone seems more like a grenade than any chemical weapon....
1 ton ghost 12-21-07, 11:38 AM	well said. actually, i didn't know you needed a modicum of magical talent to make some of these. i guess a few are implied in their implementation and design, namely sunrods and the like, but yeah...it's Craft: Alchemy. just a skill to me. i didn't know it was the province of spellcasters. in any case, thanks for bringing it to my attention, though i don't plan on changing it. that is, if you have Craft as a class skill, i'll let you attempt to make item 'x'. consider a Halfling (anyone good at ranged, thrown weapons particularly) w/ the Grenadier feat that makes his own batches of "whatever" via Alchemy. could be a compelling character...
LSMFT 12-21-07, 12:51 PM	It seems to me that making Acid, while requiring a working (at least!) knowledge of chemistry, should not also require the knowledge of how to turn the mystical forces of the universe to your will! The assumption there is that the normal rules for chemistry apply in this world of magic. And, in D&D, couldn't acid be a "mystical force?" That said, I don't really see anyproblem with dropping the spellcaster requirement from alchemy.
Master_Vega 12-21-07, 07:48 PM	Alternatively, you could use D20Modern's Craft (Chemical) (http://12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Skills.php?Name=Craft%20(chemical)) for poisons and acids and the like.
Saiyamantis 12-22-07, 02:43 AM	Thunderstone seems more like a grenade than any chemical weapon.... I actually bought something like a thunderstone at a museum gift shop once- two little clay balls that make a nice loud Bang when they hit each other hard enough. As best I can figure, it's because there's some sort of weak gunpowder coating on the clay. A thunderstone could have similar clay balls inside, just with a lot more powder.
Dragon_of_Frost 04-18-08, 09:20 AM	there are those little packets of powder that when thrown at a hard object they make a snap noise in real life, thunderstones could just be a more potent and dangerous version. and a sun rode could just be a flare.
ToastedAmphibian 04-18-08, 08:17 PM	a sun rode could just be a flare. Or a super powered Glow Stick?
Fireclave 04-19-08, 12:49 AM	The assumption there is that the normal rules for chemistry apply in this world of magic. And, in D&D, couldn't acid be a "mystical force?" That said, I don't really see anyproblem with dropping the spellcaster requirement from alchemy. In D&D, acid IS a mystical force. There is no logical, real-life reason for acid to be an energy (and cold for that matter, since it's a lack of energy). That said, I agree with everything else you said. I always imagined Craft (alchemy) being only open to casters because the process requires using small amounts of magic as catalysis to manipulate matter. The process requires magic because matter in a "typical D&D universe" is likely, at some level, magically based. Using a world strongly based on the classical elements for example, an alchemist making alchemic fire would use a bit of catalytic magical energy during the creation process to remove the "fire" from his base ingredients and distill it into a liquid. The result is not some chemical that instantly combusts on contact with oxygen or some similar RL equivalent, but is actually, literally liquid fire. The alchemist fire is not inherently magical since it's just regular "matter" with a different "mix" in it's makeup (98.9% fire, 1.1 % other). However, the process to make, did require magic. However, all of the above is just my personal, subjective flavor, and if you (OP) feel that alchemy is more science than magic-based and want it open as a skill for all classes, then by all means go for it. Alchemical items can be just as, or at least, almost as easily to describe using magic or physics, and since alchemical items produce relatively minor effects, you won't be breaking the game or stepping on any roles of any class.
ciaran 04-20-08, 02:23 AM	Ranks in Knowledge Arcana could be a good trade off for spell casting ability.