Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bov 10-24-07, 07:14 AM	Hi I just recently found the Align weapon, mass spell from Spell Compendium, but my DM moans that it is too powerful? The group members are all around 15th level, but we are in a campaign that is heavy on demons and devils so this spell will be a big boost, as I now with one spell can give all party members weapons an extra +2d6 damage and at range. What is the general consensus in the community, is Align weapon, mass really that powerful, and if I still want the spell, how can I nerf it reasonably. The DM suggested changing it to a 6th lvl spell. Any feedback is much appreciated.
Salla 10-24-07, 10:12 AM	It's only 'so powerful' because you're about to face a squidload of demons and devils. If that weren't the case, the spell would be mostly useless.
Eerongal 10-24-07, 10:18 AM	Salla has it right. If you're fighting a load of enemies with similar qualities, then a spell that gives you a way to trump their abilities/bypass immunities/deal extra damage to that specific type is going to be very powerful. However, if the campaign is varied, and you fight the usual load of unique enemies, with their own powers/abilities/immunities then a spell for a specific type/alignment/whatever is going to be useless 80-90 percent of the time.
Tordak 10-24-07, 10:18 AM	In a world or campaing where demon encounters is a frequent thing it would make perfect sense such a spell exist (and furthermore be quite common). I don't have spell compedium with me, but are you sure it also grants an additional 2d6 to damage, not just the 'alignement' subtype to your attacks(the regular align weapon doesn't give you the extra dice)? And if all of you guys are level 15 and you often fight demons and devils, you should already have equipement busting their DR, or have access to it. So I really don't think it's too powerful. It certainly is strong, but 15th level caster deserved that kind of power, and it's only strong because your DM send creatures against whom it's effective (like previously mentionned).
Salla 10-24-07, 10:25 AM	Salla has it right. If you're fighting a load of enemies with similar qualities, then a spell that gives you a way to trump their abilities/bypass immunities/deal extra damage to that specific type is going to be very powerful. However, if the campaign is varied, and you fight the usual load of unique enemies, with their own powers/abilities/immunities then a spell for a specific type/alignment/whatever is going to be useless 80-90 percent of the time. Heh. This bugs me a lot, really. A lot of the knee-jerk reactions of stuff being overpowered comes about solely because of what the DM uses for opposition. I fondly remember someone whining about how a spiked chain tripper was completely demolishing his game and how he could nerf him. "Throw something other than medium-sized humanoid groundpounders at him." "My campaign uses a lot of undead, and the Radiant Servant of Pelor is chewing me up ..." No ****, Sherlock. :)
Tordak 10-24-07, 10:34 AM	Heh. This bugs me a lot, really. A lot of the knee-jerk reactions of stuff being overpowered comes about solely because of what the DM uses for opposition. I fondly remember someone whining about how a spiked chain tripper was completely demolishing his game and how he could nerf him. "Throw something other than medium-sized humanoid groundpounders at him." "My campaign uses a lot of undead, and the Radiant Servant of Pelor is chewing me up ..." No ****, Sherlock. :) I agree. Monster now have access to pretty much every single player options (unlike previous editions of D&D), and DMs have all the option in the world. I don't think it's right to complain about clever use of feats and spells because it thwarts your plans, that's what the players are suppose to do; the players are suppose to come on top, else a DM's better just play by himself. There's always way around players strengh, something to give them a good challenge, the DM only has to be as clever as his players. Of course you don't want to **** your players every time they fight, but a few good challenges quickly makes them realize everyone has weaknesses and flaws.
Tordak 10-24-07, 10:36 AM	Interesting, I only now realised the forum auto-censure some comments!!! ********
Eerongal 10-24-07, 11:18 AM	the way i see it, from a DM perspective, nothing should be seen as "overpowered" because as they say "what's good for the geese is good for the gander". Anything the PCs can do, you can make enemies do as well. I personally agree with the ideals of a friend of mine. When he DMs, he goes with any rulings, ideas, houserules, etc that the players agree on. But before he finalizes it, he opens his closet that contains his collection of miniatures and tells them "Remember, any rules or ideas that you decide to allow also count for all of these. My armies follow the same rules as your 4 person party." Also, as pertaining to align weapon, mass, it is dispellable, which if i remember correctly, a fair few of demons and devils can use dispel/greater dispel as spell like abilities.
jaelis 10-24-07, 11:28 AM	I don't have spell compedium with me, but are you sure it also grants an additional 2d6 to damage, not just the 'alignement' subtype to your attacks(the regular align weapon doesn't give you the extra dice)? I don't remember anything about extra damage either. (But I'm also AFB, so I'm not making any guarantees.) Don't confuse making a weapon aligned good with making it holy. That would be a much more powerful effect.
StevenO 10-24-07, 01:46 PM	It looks to me like the Mass Align Weapon is different from the effect granting the damage increase but I could be wrong. Now the spell may seem broken because it is playing directly to an opponents weakness but it the overall picture it is fine. When dealing with fiends don't forget that many of the more powerful one have DR/Good AND material so the players still need to meet the material part to overcome DR.
Bov 10-24-07, 05:34 PM	Thanks a lot for the feedback. I think the key here is that we have used the 2nd lvl spell Align Weapon as also giving the weapon the +2d6 as the holy attribute, thanks for putting that to my attention. Ill present this thread to the DM as the spell makes more sense now. Thanks!
draco1119 10-25-07, 06:14 AM	Of course, if you want it to be more powerful than written (which DOES NOT include +2D6 damage, BTW), you could pick up the feat Sanctify Weapon from BoED. Any time you cast an Align Weapon spell, the weapon it's cast on (or all of them in the case of Mass), the weapon deals an extra 1 point of damage. Unless you're fighting undead or Evil Outsiders, in which case it's an additional 1d4 damage.