"+2/+2 Skill" Feats; some better ideas? [Archive] - Wizards Community

"+2/+2 Skill" Feats; some better ideas? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bladesinger Boy
08-01-07, 03:45 PM Okay, here's a few ideas for skill related feats I've been thinking about.

Keep:
- Alertness
- Stealthy
- ... that one that gives +2 Concentration and Spellcraft
and delete all other +2/+2 skill feats

New:
- STRENGTH TRAINING: +1 to all str checks and all str-based skill checks
- DEXTERITY TRAINING: +1 to all dex checks and all dex-based skill checks
- CONSTITUTION TRAINING: +1 to all con checks and all con-based skill checks
- INTELLIGENCE TRAINING: +1 to all int checks and all int-based skill checks
- WISDOM TRAINING: +1 to all wis checks and all wis-based skill checks
- CHARISMA TRAINING: +1 to all cha checks and all cha-based skill checks

- EXPERT KNOWLEDGE: +2 on all knowledge skill checks
- EXPERT CRAFTING: +2 on all craft skill checks
- EXPERT PERFORMING: +2 on all perform skill checks

I know the term is over-used, but Please-examine-and-critique-honestly (PEACH). Anything you people would add?
RodinGates
08-01-07, 04:00 PM I think the last three are a little overpowered. For example, Expert Knowledge would essentially give you a +2 in over five skills depending on your class. You should limit the bonus to maybe any two knowledge skills, or any two craft or perform skills.
Platstud
08-01-07, 04:15 PM I think the last three are a little overpowered. For example, Expert Knowledge would essentially give you a +2 in over five skills depending on your class. You should limit the bonus to maybe any two knowledge skills, or any two craft or perform skills.

I don't know. Other than the primary spellcasting Knowledge skills, I really feel that Knowledge is underpowered. I don't think getting a bonus to all knowledge skills is overpowered.
Averroes
08-01-07, 04:18 PM The dex and str ones also seem a touch powerful. For a rogue one of those would give a +1 in alot of very valuable skills.
NeueRegel
08-01-07, 04:29 PM Nothing is wrong with the core rules.

Knowledge: Everybody is a winner on Jeopardy?

Perform: Everybody is Eddie Van Halen or Amy Lee?

C'mon.

Neue
Spatacus
08-01-07, 07:27 PM I think your new feats are better than the +2/+2 feats, yet still somewhat underpowered. Here’s a couple of suggestions to up their power and inject some flavor into them:

Expert Knowledge could grant the additional benefit of allowing you to make an untrained knowledge check 1/day. You could mention trivia contests or the Gnomish almanac in your flavor text.

Expert Performer could grant the additional benefit of allowing you to retry a failed perform check, but you must use a different type of performance skill 1/day. The flavor text could say you’re adept at noticing audience reactions and changing your routine.

I’d really like to see the +2/+2 feats improved. The only one I really like is the one that boosts UMD, and I still find skill focus(UMD) more desirable.
Bladesinger Boy
08-01-07, 11:00 PM Yeah, I agree with Spatacus about using them untrained. The three "Expert whatever" feats should probably let you use the skills untrained all the time. But I'm less inclined about the retries.

To RodinGates, no I don't think +2 to all knowledges is overpowered. Suppose a few characters actually are willing enough to take the feat and can use 3 or 4 knowledge skills: I still wouldn't think it is overpowered. Let me count... arcana, religion, cosmology, nobility and royalty, geography, dungeoneering, nature, local... (is that all?)... that's 8 skills. If someone feels it's worth their effort to try to take skill points in and use In-Game all of them, fine.

Averroes, str and dex would be powerful because of it's affect on grapple and combat abilities like tripping, right? That's one reason I think Fighter types would actually take a "skill"ish feat like this. It is just a +1 bonus.

Think of the "Training" feats in terms of specialization versus breadth. Skill Focus gives +3 to one skill. Those +2/+2 feats gives +2 to two skills (or a few more, those "expert feats). +1 should be able to be given to many skills because it's so small a bonus.
runestar
08-01-07, 11:37 PM Personally, I would just scrap all of them and create a single feat which states "Choose any 2 skills. You get a +2 bonus on all skill checks with those skills".
Saric
08-01-07, 11:55 PM This is an idea I've been experimenting with in my current campaign. Skill focus maxes out the one skill of your choice and makes it a class skill (basically a free skill pt/level) in addition to the +3 bonus.

The +2/+2 grant half of the max ranks you can attain in both skills, thus a level 7 barbarian who picked alertness would have 5 ranks in spot/listen in addition to the +2. It also makes the two skills class skills.

It sounds overpowered, but I really don't care, since most people don't usually pick the feats, picking combat-oriented feats. With these changes now they are actually something to be considered. It also allows non-skill monkeys to use their feats to be actually good in some skills and interact in social or sneaking encounters if they really want to. So far, most people still go for skill focus since they don't have to waste any extra skill points to max out the skill.
danielinthewolvesden
08-02-07, 08:03 PM Personally, I would just scrap all of them and create a single feat which states "Choose any 2 skills. You get a +2 bonus on all skill checks with those skills".

Yeah, but then they would not be able to fill pages and pages with those feats then would they?

One of my DMs has made this (and skill focus) add RANKS not a bonus. Still, few have taken advantage of it, altho no doubt some super-powergamer could come up with some crazy builds by doing so.
Platstud
08-03-07, 11:15 AM Yeah, but then they would not be able to fill pages and pages with those feats then would they?

One of my DMs has made this (and skill focus) add RANKS not a bonus. Still, few have taken advantage of it, altho no doubt some super-powergamer could come up with some crazy builds by doing so.

The problem with adding ranks instead of bonuses is that your ranks reach a cap. And I can't think of any reason(beyond making it very slightly easier to qualify for some PrCs with a strange multiclass combo) why this would be desirable.

Edit: Unless you are suggesting that the added ranks also increase the cap, in which case these feats no longer have anything to do with making your skills better and simply become a way to qualify for certain PrCs before you were intended to.
NobodyRemembersThis
08-03-07, 11:36 AM Why not increase the current ones to +3 each skill, and make Skill focus +4 and makes the skill Always a class skill for you?
Antimyth
08-03-07, 11:42 AM ^^ beaten

+3/+3 maybe?
danielinthewolvesden
08-03-07, 02:46 PM Edit: Unless you are suggesting that the added ranks also increase the cap, in which case these feats no longer have anything to do with making your skills better and simply become a way to qualify for certain PrCs before you were intended to.

Yes, they increase the Cap. Yes, it helps to get into PrC's.

In Faerun they have "+2, +2, +2" feats. Maybe we could change to that- any three related skills?
Cincinnati
08-07-07, 12:09 PM My current DM has let us take any of the +2/+2 skill feats for free at first level. I like this idea, it gives the PC's the benefit of these feats without wasting a feat slot on them. It's a little way to boost power at first level (and let the PCs specialize a little bit) without breaking the game at all.
CrazyOzzy
08-07-07, 12:49 PM Why not increase the current ones to +3 each skill, and make Skill focus +4 and makes the skill Always a class skill for you?

Consider it implemented in my games :D Along with the Choose any 2 skills and and add +2 instead of the fixed combinations.

However would you still allow Skill Focus to be taken on UMD when it is not a class skill, for a Fighter for example? How about Tumble? 2 strong skills there that you wouldn't want in some hands!

My current DM has let us take any of the +2/+2 skill feats for free at first level. I like this idea, it gives the PC's the benefit of these feats without wasting a feat slot on them. It's a little way to boost power at first level (and let the PCs specialize a little bit) without breaking the game at all.

Whoa! All of them?

Edit : I've done worse, I gave free Power Attack to all full BaB Classes for a while:D
Saric
08-08-07, 01:44 AM The main reason the feats are VASTLY unattractive to players is twofold.

#1. The bonuses are only +2/+2. Unless you use both skills 10 times per session, then the feat probably was a waste. (if it saved your life more than once, then I take back my statement :) )

#2 A non-human race from the phb only gains 7 feats if they are not of a class that grants bonus feats. which means you have very limited options, trying to balance it all out between, rping, combat and general use feats.

The reason that I believe that the feats should give ranks is because of the non-scaling benefit at the high levels. A good comparison is improved initiative, a +4 to all init checks = fine because you roll init every fight, and will almost always give you a little extra edge to go first in fights, which = winning most of the time.

Alertness typically only helps you at levels 1-4. A fighter picks up alertness at level 1, and has heightened senses. He can hear the goblins sneaking up on his party and then set up an ambush. At level 10, that +2/+2 even with the cross-class ranks doesn't mean diddly squat when the monster sneaking up on them has +19 hide/move silently. (taken from the babau demon from mm 3.5, cr 6 no less!!) "I'm sure glad I picked up that +2/+2 feat." says the fighter...

Feats like these should be worthwhile investments compared to others like power attack, improved initiative, combat expertise, leap attack etc...
DM Zoc
08-08-07, 02:38 AM I personally like the presented feats. All of them, actually.

I think the main problem, why these are needed, is that not being in combat is a comparatively safe place to be, while combat is the place where you need every edge you can muster.

As long as we're throwing around house rules, why not give characters a combat-related feat at level multiples of 3 and bonus non-combat feats at all multiples of 4?
NobodyRemembersThis
08-08-07, 02:26 PM Consider it implemented in my games :D Along with the Choose any 2 skills and and add +2 instead of the fixed combinations. Why thank you! :ayyyy!:

However would you still allow Skill Focus to be taken on UMD when it is not a class skill, for a Fighter for example? How about Tumble? 2 strong skills there that you wouldn't want in some hands!Here is exactly how I would implement Skill Focus:Skill Focus [General]
Choose a skill.
Benefit: You get a +4 bonus on all checks involving that skill. The skill is always treated as a class skill for you, regardless of class when skill points are gained.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new skill. You cannot take this feat on the following skills unless it is already a class skill: Decipher Script, Disable Device, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Tumble.Takes care of that issue, doesn't it? :smirk:
NobodyRemembersThis
08-08-07, 02:30 PM Feats like these should be worthwhile investments compared to others like power attack, improved initiative, combat expertise, leap attack etc...You could make the benefits +1/4 ranks in the skill (it would cap at +5). Skill Focus would then be +1/3 ranks (+8 at level 18). Would that suffice for your campaign? I am sticking with +3/+3 and +4/always class skill for my game though. ;)
NobodyRemembersThis
08-08-07, 02:31 PM I personally like the presented feats. All of them, actually.

I think the main problem, why these are needed, is that not being in combat is a comparatively safe place to be, while combat is the place where you need every edge you can muster.

As long as we're throwing around house rules, why not give characters a combat-related feat at level multiples of 3 and bonus non-combat feats at all multiples of 4?I'd say every 5 actually - every 4 is a stat gaining level, and 4 extra skill feats is pretty hefty if you leave the rules alone otherwise. :P
unundindur
08-08-07, 05:53 PM I see no problem with any of those feats, although I would still never take them as I have a lot of much more important uses for the extremely limit amounts of feats I have :)
Mojo_Rat
08-08-07, 06:49 PM the thing is the +2/+2 skill feats are pretty strong. The fact that players put so much weight on combat is hardly the feats problem.

With one of the +2/+2 feats backed up by skill focus a dungeearing rogue can easily make even the most difficult traps for his level trivial. and Traps can kill you just as much as an orc can. Used selectivly they can raise 'good' sskills up to the phenominally good range.

Its really up for people to decide iwhat they want to prooritize.
unundindur
08-08-07, 06:56 PM the thing is the +2/+2 skill feats are pretty strong. The fact that players put so much weight on combat is hardly the feats problem.

With one of the +2/+2 feats backed up by skill focus a dungeearing rogue can easily make even the most difficult traps for his level trivial. and Traps can kill you just as much as an orc can. Used selectivly they can raise 'good' sskills up to the phenominally good range.

Its really up for people to decide iwhat they want to prooritize.

Yes, but this has to do with the strange price-difference between combat gear and skill increasing gear. I would love for skill-increase gear to have a much higher price, as it would make your statement sound, and would also draw some of hte focus of DnD away from combat.
Archtyrant Terevoth
08-08-07, 06:59 PM I think the last three are a little overpowered. For example, Expert Knowledge would essentially give you a +2 in over five skills depending on your class. You should limit the bonus to maybe any two knowledge skills, or any two craft or perform skills.

Overpowered? Are you kidding me?

Someone is dumping a feat so instead of power attack, karmic strike or shock trooper, they get a +2 bonus to knowledge checks and you're calling that overpowered? I'd say they're getting ripped off.
JulesCARV
08-08-07, 07:04 PM There are two that I proposed, but they fit the standard "+2/+2" system.

CULTURED [GENERAL]
You are familiar with the finer things in life
Benefit: Select one knowledge skill and one perform skill. You get a +2 bonus on the selected knowledge and perform checks.

INDUSTRIOUS [GENERAL]
You are hard-working and productive
Benefit: Select one craft skill and one profession skill. You get a +2 bonus on the selected craft and profession checks.

Overall, though, I think that runestar's suggestion for just picking any two skills and adding +2 to them is the best, so the above feats are, in that case, obsolete even as I post them. Meh.
aelryinth
08-08-07, 08:07 PM +2/+2 to any two skills I call an Affinity Feat, and it grants an Affinity bonus. It scales at the same rate as the Synergy bonus between skills that have them (in effect, you are creating an 'extra' synergy bonus). Unlike the others, it can get better with time as you ramp up the skills, but its not as good starting out (generally, improves at 10 ranks, 15, etc by +1)

+3 to any skill and always class skill is a Skill Focus. It grants a Focus bonus and represents extra training in a skill, generally as part of learning a trade.

+4 to any Skill, always class skill, is a Talent, counts as +2 ranks if the skill is maxed, and grants a Talent bonus. It can only be taken or gained as a First level feat. I only allow it on charcters created at level 1, not 'builds'.

None of these bonuses can be replicated by magic.

===Aelryinth
DragonDan
08-09-07, 10:40 AM the thing is the +2/+2 skill feats are pretty strong. The fact that players put so much weight on combat is hardly the feats problem.

With one of the +2/+2 feats backed up by skill focus a dungeearing rogue can easily make even the most difficult traps for his level trivial. and Traps can kill you just as much as an orc can. Used selectivly they can raise 'good' sskills up to the phenominally good range.

Its really up for people to decide iwhat they want to prooritize.

This is interesting. You call Nimble Fingers strong, but only after adding another feat on top. :confused:
Warforged Goblin
08-09-07, 11:02 AM Here are some skill boosting feats I use for my homebrew campaign.

Aldrenni Planar Student [General]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (planes) checks. In addition, you know two additional languages which may be Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Infernal, or Terran.

Competent Crafter [General]
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all Craft checks.
Special: A fighter may take Competent Crafter as a fighter feat.

Insightful Knowledge [General]
Benefit: You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Intelligence modifier for all Knowledge checks.

Merchant’s Eye [General]
Prerequisites: Craft 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Appraise checks and can sell items at 10% more than their normal market price.

On the Job Learning [General]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all Craft checks and Profession checks of one type.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times as long as it is applied to two different specific Craft and Profession checks.

Performance Artist [General]
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all Perform checks.

Professional [General]
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all Profession checks. In addition, when attempting a Profession check to earn an income, you earn 1 and a half times the normal amount.

World Traveler [General]
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all Diplomacy checks and know two additional languages, which may be any languages except secret languages, such as Druidic.

Nothing game breaking I believe...
CrazyOzzy
08-09-07, 12:38 PM Why thank you! :ayyyy!:

Here is exactly how I would implement Skill Focus:Skill Focus [General]
Choose a skill.
Benefit: You get a +4 bonus on all checks involving that skill. The skill is always treated as a class skill for you, regardless of class when skill points are gained.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new skill. You cannot take this feat on the following skills unless it is already a class skill: Decipher Script, Disable Device, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Tumble.Takes care of that issue, doesn't it? :smirk:

:clap: :thumbsup:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bladesinger Boy 08-01-07, 03:45 PM	Okay, here's a few ideas for skill related feats I've been thinking about. Keep: - Alertness - Stealthy - ... that one that gives +2 Concentration and Spellcraft and delete all other +2/+2 skill feats New: - STRENGTH TRAINING: +1 to all str checks and all str-based skill checks - DEXTERITY TRAINING: +1 to all dex checks and all dex-based skill checks - CONSTITUTION TRAINING: +1 to all con checks and all con-based skill checks - INTELLIGENCE TRAINING: +1 to all int checks and all int-based skill checks - WISDOM TRAINING: +1 to all wis checks and all wis-based skill checks - CHARISMA TRAINING: +1 to all cha checks and all cha-based skill checks - EXPERT KNOWLEDGE: +2 on all knowledge skill checks - EXPERT CRAFTING: +2 on all craft skill checks - EXPERT PERFORMING: +2 on all perform skill checks I know the term is over-used, but Please-examine-and-critique-honestly (PEACH). Anything you people would add?
RodinGates 08-01-07, 04:00 PM	I think the last three are a little overpowered. For example, Expert Knowledge would essentially give you a +2 in over five skills depending on your class. You should limit the bonus to maybe any two knowledge skills, or any two craft or perform skills.
Platstud 08-01-07, 04:15 PM	I think the last three are a little overpowered. For example, Expert Knowledge would essentially give you a +2 in over five skills depending on your class. You should limit the bonus to maybe any two knowledge skills, or any two craft or perform skills. I don't know. Other than the primary spellcasting Knowledge skills, I really feel that Knowledge is underpowered. I don't think getting a bonus to all knowledge skills is overpowered.
Averroes 08-01-07, 04:18 PM	The dex and str ones also seem a touch powerful. For a rogue one of those would give a +1 in alot of very valuable skills.
NeueRegel 08-01-07, 04:29 PM	Nothing is wrong with the core rules. Knowledge: Everybody is a winner on Jeopardy? Perform: Everybody is Eddie Van Halen or Amy Lee? C'mon. Neue
Spatacus 08-01-07, 07:27 PM	I think your new feats are better than the +2/+2 feats, yet still somewhat underpowered. Here’s a couple of suggestions to up their power and inject some flavor into them: Expert Knowledge could grant the additional benefit of allowing you to make an untrained knowledge check 1/day. You could mention trivia contests or the Gnomish almanac in your flavor text. Expert Performer could grant the additional benefit of allowing you to retry a failed perform check, but you must use a different type of performance skill 1/day. The flavor text could say you’re adept at noticing audience reactions and changing your routine. I’d really like to see the +2/+2 feats improved. The only one I really like is the one that boosts UMD, and I still find skill focus(UMD) more desirable.
Bladesinger Boy 08-01-07, 11:00 PM	Yeah, I agree with Spatacus about using them untrained. The three "Expert whatever" feats should probably let you use the skills untrained all the time. But I'm less inclined about the retries. To RodinGates, no I don't think +2 to all knowledges is overpowered. Suppose a few characters actually are willing enough to take the feat and can use 3 or 4 knowledge skills: I still wouldn't think it is overpowered. Let me count... arcana, religion, cosmology, nobility and royalty, geography, dungeoneering, nature, local... (is that all?)... that's 8 skills. If someone feels it's worth their effort to try to take skill points in and use In-Game all of them, fine. Averroes, str and dex would be powerful because of it's affect on grapple and combat abilities like tripping, right? That's one reason I think Fighter types would actually take a "skill"ish feat like this. It is just a +1 bonus. Think of the "Training" feats in terms of specialization versus breadth. Skill Focus gives +3 to one skill. Those +2/+2 feats gives +2 to two skills (or a few more, those "expert feats). +1 should be able to be given to many skills because it's so small a bonus.
runestar 08-01-07, 11:37 PM	Personally, I would just scrap all of them and create a single feat which states "Choose any 2 skills. You get a +2 bonus on all skill checks with those skills".
Saric 08-01-07, 11:55 PM	This is an idea I've been experimenting with in my current campaign. Skill focus maxes out the one skill of your choice and makes it a class skill (basically a free skill pt/level) in addition to the +3 bonus. The +2/+2 grant half of the max ranks you can attain in both skills, thus a level 7 barbarian who picked alertness would have 5 ranks in spot/listen in addition to the +2. It also makes the two skills class skills. It sounds overpowered, but I really don't care, since most people don't usually pick the feats, picking combat-oriented feats. With these changes now they are actually something to be considered. It also allows non-skill monkeys to use their feats to be actually good in some skills and interact in social or sneaking encounters if they really want to. So far, most people still go for skill focus since they don't have to waste any extra skill points to max out the skill.
danielinthewolvesden 08-02-07, 08:03 PM	Personally, I would just scrap all of them and create a single feat which states "Choose any 2 skills. You get a +2 bonus on all skill checks with those skills". Yeah, but then they would not be able to fill pages and pages with those feats then would they? One of my DMs has made this (and skill focus) add RANKS not a bonus. Still, few have taken advantage of it, altho no doubt some super-powergamer could come up with some crazy builds by doing so.
Platstud 08-03-07, 11:15 AM	Yeah, but then they would not be able to fill pages and pages with those feats then would they? One of my DMs has made this (and skill focus) add RANKS not a bonus. Still, few have taken advantage of it, altho no doubt some super-powergamer could come up with some crazy builds by doing so. The problem with adding ranks instead of bonuses is that your ranks reach a cap. And I can't think of any reason(beyond making it very slightly easier to qualify for some PrCs with a strange multiclass combo) why this would be desirable. Edit: Unless you are suggesting that the added ranks also increase the cap, in which case these feats no longer have anything to do with making your skills better and simply become a way to qualify for certain PrCs before you were intended to.
NobodyRemembersThis 08-03-07, 11:36 AM	Why not increase the current ones to +3 each skill, and make Skill focus +4 and makes the skill Always a class skill for you?
Antimyth 08-03-07, 11:42 AM	^^ beaten +3/+3 maybe?
danielinthewolvesden 08-03-07, 02:46 PM	Edit: Unless you are suggesting that the added ranks also increase the cap, in which case these feats no longer have anything to do with making your skills better and simply become a way to qualify for certain PrCs before you were intended to. Yes, they increase the Cap. Yes, it helps to get into PrC's. In Faerun they have "+2, +2, +2" feats. Maybe we could change to that- any three related skills?
Cincinnati 08-07-07, 12:09 PM	My current DM has let us take any of the +2/+2 skill feats for free at first level. I like this idea, it gives the PC's the benefit of these feats without wasting a feat slot on them. It's a little way to boost power at first level (and let the PCs specialize a little bit) without breaking the game at all.
CrazyOzzy 08-07-07, 12:49 PM	Why not increase the current ones to +3 each skill, and make Skill focus +4 and makes the skill Always a class skill for you? Consider it implemented in my games :D Along with the Choose any 2 skills and and add +2 instead of the fixed combinations. However would you still allow Skill Focus to be taken on UMD when it is not a class skill, for a Fighter for example? How about Tumble? 2 strong skills there that you wouldn't want in some hands! My current DM has let us take any of the +2/+2 skill feats for free at first level. I like this idea, it gives the PC's the benefit of these feats without wasting a feat slot on them. It's a little way to boost power at first level (and let the PCs specialize a little bit) without breaking the game at all. Whoa! All of them? Edit : I've done worse, I gave free Power Attack to all full BaB Classes for a while:D
Saric 08-08-07, 01:44 AM	The main reason the feats are VASTLY unattractive to players is twofold. #1. The bonuses are only +2/+2. Unless you use both skills 10 times per session, then the feat probably was a waste. (if it saved your life more than once, then I take back my statement :) ) #2 A non-human race from the phb only gains 7 feats if they are not of a class that grants bonus feats. which means you have very limited options, trying to balance it all out between, rping, combat and general use feats. The reason that I believe that the feats should give ranks is because of the non-scaling benefit at the high levels. A good comparison is improved initiative, a +4 to all init checks = fine because you roll init every fight, and will almost always give you a little extra edge to go first in fights, which = winning most of the time. Alertness typically only helps you at levels 1-4. A fighter picks up alertness at level 1, and has heightened senses. He can hear the goblins sneaking up on his party and then set up an ambush. At level 10, that +2/+2 even with the cross-class ranks doesn't mean diddly squat when the monster sneaking up on them has +19 hide/move silently. (taken from the babau demon from mm 3.5, cr 6 no less!!) "I'm sure glad I picked up that +2/+2 feat." says the fighter... Feats like these should be worthwhile investments compared to others like power attack, improved initiative, combat expertise, leap attack etc...
DM Zoc 08-08-07, 02:38 AM	I personally like the presented feats. All of them, actually. I think the main problem, why these are needed, is that not being in combat is a comparatively safe place to be, while combat is the place where you need every edge you can muster. As long as we're throwing around house rules, why not give characters a combat-related feat at level multiples of 3 and bonus non-combat feats at all multiples of 4?
NobodyRemembersThis 08-08-07, 02:26 PM	Consider it implemented in my games :D Along with the Choose any 2 skills and and add +2 instead of the fixed combinations. Why thank you! :ayyyy!: However would you still allow Skill Focus to be taken on UMD when it is not a class skill, for a Fighter for example? How about Tumble? 2 strong skills there that you wouldn't want in some hands!Here is exactly how I would implement Skill Focus:Skill Focus [General] Choose a skill. Benefit: You get a +4 bonus on all checks involving that skill. The skill is always treated as a class skill for you, regardless of class when skill points are gained. Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new skill. You cannot take this feat on the following skills unless it is already a class skill: Decipher Script, Disable Device, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Tumble.Takes care of that issue, doesn't it? :smirk:
NobodyRemembersThis 08-08-07, 02:30 PM	Feats like these should be worthwhile investments compared to others like power attack, improved initiative, combat expertise, leap attack etc...You could make the benefits +1/4 ranks in the skill (it would cap at +5). Skill Focus would then be +1/3 ranks (+8 at level 18). Would that suffice for your campaign? I am sticking with +3/+3 and +4/always class skill for my game though. ;)
NobodyRemembersThis 08-08-07, 02:31 PM	I personally like the presented feats. All of them, actually. I think the main problem, why these are needed, is that not being in combat is a comparatively safe place to be, while combat is the place where you need every edge you can muster. As long as we're throwing around house rules, why not give characters a combat-related feat at level multiples of 3 and bonus non-combat feats at all multiples of 4?I'd say every 5 actually - every 4 is a stat gaining level, and 4 extra skill feats is pretty hefty if you leave the rules alone otherwise. :P
unundindur 08-08-07, 05:53 PM	I see no problem with any of those feats, although I would still never take them as I have a lot of much more important uses for the extremely limit amounts of feats I have :)
Mojo_Rat 08-08-07, 06:49 PM	the thing is the +2/+2 skill feats are pretty strong. The fact that players put so much weight on combat is hardly the feats problem. With one of the +2/+2 feats backed up by skill focus a dungeearing rogue can easily make even the most difficult traps for his level trivial. and Traps can kill you just as much as an orc can. Used selectivly they can raise 'good' sskills up to the phenominally good range. Its really up for people to decide iwhat they want to prooritize.
unundindur 08-08-07, 06:56 PM	the thing is the +2/+2 skill feats are pretty strong. The fact that players put so much weight on combat is hardly the feats problem. With one of the +2/+2 feats backed up by skill focus a dungeearing rogue can easily make even the most difficult traps for his level trivial. and Traps can kill you just as much as an orc can. Used selectivly they can raise 'good' sskills up to the phenominally good range. Its really up for people to decide iwhat they want to prooritize. Yes, but this has to do with the strange price-difference between combat gear and skill increasing gear. I would love for skill-increase gear to have a much higher price, as it would make your statement sound, and would also draw some of hte focus of DnD away from combat.
Archtyrant Terevoth 08-08-07, 06:59 PM	I think the last three are a little overpowered. For example, Expert Knowledge would essentially give you a +2 in over five skills depending on your class. You should limit the bonus to maybe any two knowledge skills, or any two craft or perform skills. Overpowered? Are you kidding me? Someone is dumping a feat so instead of power attack, karmic strike or shock trooper, they get a +2 bonus to knowledge checks and you're calling that overpowered? I'd say they're getting ripped off.
JulesCARV 08-08-07, 07:04 PM	There are two that I proposed, but they fit the standard "+2/+2" system. CULTURED [GENERAL] You are familiar with the finer things in life Benefit: Select one knowledge skill and one perform skill. You get a +2 bonus on the selected knowledge and perform checks. INDUSTRIOUS [GENERAL] You are hard-working and productive Benefit: Select one craft skill and one profession skill. You get a +2 bonus on the selected craft and profession checks. Overall, though, I think that runestar's suggestion for just picking any two skills and adding +2 to them is the best, so the above feats are, in that case, obsolete even as I post them. Meh.
aelryinth 08-08-07, 08:07 PM	+2/+2 to any two skills I call an Affinity Feat, and it grants an Affinity bonus. It scales at the same rate as the Synergy bonus between skills that have them (in effect, you are creating an 'extra' synergy bonus). Unlike the others, it can get better with time as you ramp up the skills, but its not as good starting out (generally, improves at 10 ranks, 15, etc by +1) +3 to any skill and always class skill is a Skill Focus. It grants a Focus bonus and represents extra training in a skill, generally as part of learning a trade. +4 to any Skill, always class skill, is a Talent, counts as +2 ranks if the skill is maxed, and grants a Talent bonus. It can only be taken or gained as a First level feat. I only allow it on charcters created at level 1, not 'builds'. None of these bonuses can be replicated by magic. ===Aelryinth
DragonDan 08-09-07, 10:40 AM	the thing is the +2/+2 skill feats are pretty strong. The fact that players put so much weight on combat is hardly the feats problem. With one of the +2/+2 feats backed up by skill focus a dungeearing rogue can easily make even the most difficult traps for his level trivial. and Traps can kill you just as much as an orc can. Used selectivly they can raise 'good' sskills up to the phenominally good range. Its really up for people to decide iwhat they want to prooritize. This is interesting. You call Nimble Fingers strong, but only after adding another feat on top. :confused:
Warforged Goblin 08-09-07, 11:02 AM	Here are some skill boosting feats I use for my homebrew campaign. Aldrenni Planar Student [General] Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (planes) checks. In addition, you know two additional languages which may be Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Infernal, or Terran. Competent Crafter [General] Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all Craft checks. Special: A fighter may take Competent Crafter as a fighter feat. Insightful Knowledge [General] Benefit: You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Intelligence modifier for all Knowledge checks. Merchant’s Eye [General] Prerequisites: Craft 4 ranks Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Appraise checks and can sell items at 10% more than their normal market price. On the Job Learning [General] Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all Craft checks and Profession checks of one type. Special: This feat may be taken multiple times as long as it is applied to two different specific Craft and Profession checks. Performance Artist [General] Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all Perform checks. Professional [General] Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all Profession checks. In addition, when attempting a Profession check to earn an income, you earn 1 and a half times the normal amount. World Traveler [General] Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all Diplomacy checks and know two additional languages, which may be any languages except secret languages, such as Druidic. Nothing game breaking I believe...
CrazyOzzy 08-09-07, 12:38 PM	Why thank you! :ayyyy!: Here is exactly how I would implement Skill Focus:Skill Focus [General] Choose a skill. Benefit: You get a +4 bonus on all checks involving that skill. The skill is always treated as a class skill for you, regardless of class when skill points are gained. Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new skill. You cannot take this feat on the following skills unless it is already a class skill: Decipher Script, Disable Device, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Tumble.Takes care of that issue, doesn't it? :smirk: :clap: :thumbsup: