Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wolverineX3D 06-17-07, 03:21 AM	My 9th level Halfling Druid has a Brixashulty Animal Companion. His Base Attack Bonus is the same as a 9th level druid, +6/+1 (he now gets a Second attack). His new feat is supposed to be "Multiattack". So, am I reading that this feat is useless for my animal companion? Would I only get 2 attacks (+6/+1 BAB)? What exactly does the Multiattack give? Does it give a 3rd attack at -5 BAB? I am using the Players Handbook and Monster Manual descriptions: Players Handbook, pg 36 "...an animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a -5 penalty". Monster Manual, pg 304 "Multiattack...Without this feat, the creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take a -5 penalty". Thanks!
strenoth 06-17-07, 05:13 PM	... you do NOT normally get secondary attacks with natural weapons. Your Brixashulty, if not an animal companion, would normally only havbe the +6 BaB attack, and no secondary. The Animal companion ability is what givesyou the secondary attack with the natural weapon.
kjenks 06-17-07, 05:27 PM	Creatures almost never get iterative attacks with natural weapons. Use Share Spells with a Beast Claws spell (Spell Compendium) and your Brixashulty gets two primary claw attacks with increased threat range. This stacks up well with Nature's Favor and Greater Magic Fang.
utilitarian 06-17-07, 05:30 PM	If you want additional attacks with natural weapons, you need to go the Rapidstrike route.
kjenks 06-17-07, 05:48 PM	Your critter can also select the Improved Unarmed Strike feat when advancing. This gives him iterative attacks from his high BAB. Nature's Favor and Greater Magic Fang still stack.
Captain_Kobold 06-17-07, 05:56 PM	Unfortunately I believe that while unarmed strikes do get iterative attacks, they are not natural attacks and so do damage based upon the size of the creature, and not on its claws/bite etc. Depending upon the creature, this could reduce the damage somewhat. I imagine that magic fang and similar spells should still boost them though.
Nom 06-17-07, 08:08 PM	Let's deal with the key question first:What exactly does the Multiattack give? Does it give a 3rd attack at -5 BAB?No. Multiattack reduces the "secondary natural weapon" attack penalty from -5 to -2. Normally, a creature using natural weapons in a full attack gets 1 attack with each weapon. High BAB does not grant iterative attacks with a natural weapon. 1 type of weapon is designated the primary weapon, and may apply full attack bonus and full Str bonus to damage. Other types are designated secondary, and suffer a -5 penalty to attack bonus and 1/2 Str bonus to damage. A creature with a single weapon (not merely a single type of weapon, but only 1 attack) may apply 1.5x Str bonus to damage. To be eligible for Multiattack, a creature must have at least 3 natural weapons. If an animal companion does not qualify for multiattack, it instead gains a special second attack with one primary weapon attack. This second attack is identical to the normal attack except for a -5 penalty to attack bonus.
wolverineX3D 06-17-07, 10:55 PM	Thanks everyone so far with helping me work through this before my next game session, since I just hit 9th level and am leveling up everything. I am still working on understanding BAB for the animal companion based on all the feedback. My understanding now is that "Nobbywack", the 9 HD Brixashulty animal companion, does NOT have a second natural weapon attack, only 1 Head Butt attack. This means he does NOT get the secondary "weapon" attack available to a 9th level druids at a +1 BAB. PHB, pg 36; 1. ..."...An animal companion's base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal's HD...". 9th level Druid BAB = +6/+1. Does this mean that unless my companion can hold a weapon, it will never get this +1 secondary attack? 2. ..."...An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat...if an animal companion does not qualify...it instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a -5 penalty". Based on the information I am gathering, is this my correct attack now? Attack 1: BAB +6, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus Attack 2: BAB -5, 1d8 Damage + 1/2 STR bonus OR Attack 2: BAB +1, -5= -4?, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus So far, I have given him the following 3 Feats for a 9th level creature: Diehard (per racial Endurance requirement), Improved Natural Attack (1d8 damage), Ability Focus (+2 Knockback). Thanks!
kjenks 06-17-07, 11:41 PM	Thanks everyone so far with helping me work through this before my next game session, since I just hit 9th level and am leveling up everything. I am still working on understanding BAB for the animal companion based on all the feedback. My understanding now is that "Nobbywack", the 9 HD Brixashulty animal companion, does NOT have a second natural weapon attack, only 1 Head Butt attack. This means he does NOT get the secondary "weapon" attack available to a 9th level druids at a +1 BAB. PHB, pg 36; 1. ..."...An animal companion's base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal's HD...". 9th level Druid BAB = +6/+1. Does this mean that unless my companion can hold a weapon, it will never get this +1 secondary attack? Pretty much. It can still get that iterative attack if it uses unarmed strikes, but the damage die is much smaller and unarmed strikes provoke AoOs unless it has the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. 2. ..."...An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat...if an animal companion does not qualify...it instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a -5 penalty". Based on the information I am gathering, is this my correct attack now? Attack 1: BAB +6, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus Attack 2: BAB -5, 1d8 Damage + 1/2 STR bonus OR Attack 2: BAB +1, -5= -4?, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus So far, I have given him the following 3 Feats for a 9th level creature: Diehard (per racial Endurance requirement), Improved Natural Attack (1d8 damage), Ability Focus (+2 Knockback). Thanks! With the Multiattack alternative, it would have two head butts: Attack 1: BAB +6, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus Attack 2: BAB +6-5=+1, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus It might be better off with Weapon Focus (head butt) instead of Improve Natural Attack.
wolverineX3D 06-18-07, 12:01 AM	Well, I dont think I could have taken Improved Unarmed Strike, because I dont have an unarmed strike...its considered a Natural Attack. Its fine...my questions seem to have been answered. It looks like even though I dont get the +6/+1 BAB for having the same BAB of a 9th level Druid, I STILL get +6/+1 BAB for the alternate Multiattack benefit. Attack 1: BAB +6, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus + Knockback Attack 2: BAB +6-5=+1, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus + Knockback Thanks!
risner 06-18-07, 02:16 AM	His Base Attack Bonus is the same as a 9th level druid, +6/+1 (he now gets a Second attack). So your animal companion uses a longsword? If not, and he uses a claw, bite, talon, or some other natural weapon then get absolutely doesn't get a second attack. If his BAB is +6, then he gets one attack and not +6/+1 as you incorrectly suggest. If you add in Multiattack, you get a second attack at +1 (+6-5). If your BAB was +20, you would have 2 attacks: +20 and +15 You would not gain an attack at +10 or +5, etc.
wolverineX3D 06-18-07, 02:22 AM	So your animal companion uses a longsword? If not, and he uses a claw, bite, talon, or some other natural weapon then get absolutely doesn't get a second attack. If his BAB is +6, then he gets one attack and not +6/+1 as you incorrectly suggest. Hi Risner, That comment was made WAY at the top of the thread. After feedback and explanations about the difference between the BAB vs the Multiattack description from the PHB, this is what the result was: It looks like even though I dont get the +6/+1 BAB for having the same BAB of a 9th level Druid, I STILL get +6/+1 BAB for the "alternate" Multiattack benefit that provides a 2nd Natural attack at a -5 penalty. Attack 1: BAB +6, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus + Knockback Attack 2: BAB +6 -5=+1, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus + Knockback Thanks!
strenoth 06-18-07, 09:57 AM	well, it might help to clarify something about BaB: your BaB IS NOT "+6/+1", It's "+6" the tables show the iterative attacks you get when using a weapon or unarmed strike, but those are derived numbers.
risner 06-18-07, 11:06 AM	It looks like even though I dont get the +6/+1 BAB for having the same BAB of a 9th level Druid, I STILL get +6/+1 BAB for the "alternate" Multiattack benefit that provides a 2nd Natural attack at a -5 penalty. Yes, but as I put in my post also, you don't get a third attack when you gain 5 more BAB points. You don't get +11/+6/+1 when it gains a BAB +11, you remain at +11/+6
crizhII 06-20-07, 08:51 AM	Attack 1: BAB +6, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus + Knockback Attack 2: BAB +6 -5=+1, 1d8 Damage + STR bonus + Knockback Thanks! You would also get to use STR x 1.5 as the creature only has one natural attack.
wolverineX3D 06-20-07, 01:31 PM	Would the STR bonus of X 1.5 apply to both attacks? Or just the second one? Attack 1: BAB +6, 1d8 Dam + STR 16 (+3) + Knockback Attack 2: BAB +6 -5=+1, 1d8 Dam + STR 16 (+3) + Knockback Thanks! I think I got this whole thing ALMOST figured out!
tarkin 06-20-07, 01:43 PM	x1.5 strength only applies if you use a single attack. Otherwise the animal gets x1 for primary, x0.5 for secondary.
kjenks 06-20-07, 01:50 PM	The 1.5x Str bonus on damage would apply to both attacks here.
wolverineX3D 06-20-07, 03:22 PM	As I am understanding, the animal companion would get the X 1.5 strength bonus to both attacks in this specific instance: 1. The animal companion only has 1 natural attack normally. (headbutt gore attack only). 2. The 9 HD is enabling him to get the "Multiattack" feat for free as a 9 HD animal companion, not something he selects as a feat. 3. Because he doesnt qualify for the main benefit of "Multiattack" , he "instead" gets a second attack at a -5 penalty. This is not an off hand attack, or attack with another natural weapon.
Nephlite 06-20-07, 06:05 PM	My 9th level Halfling Druid has a Brixashulty Animal Companion. His Base Attack Bonus is the same as a 9th level druid, +6/+1 (he now gets a Second attack). His new feat is supposed to be "Multiattack". So, am I reading that this feat is useless for my animal companion? Would I only get 2 attacks (+6/+1 BAB)? What exactly does the Multiattack give? Does it give a 3rd attack at -5 BAB? I am using the Players Handbook and Monster Manual descriptions: Players Handbook, pg 36 "...an animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a -5 penalty". Monster Manual, pg 304 "Multiattack...Without this feat, the creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take a -5 penalty". Thanks! The Animal Companion ability multiattack gives you an extra attack at -5 penalty if you only have one natural weapon, but the regular feat doesn't do this. Just thought I'd mention this. My Riding Dog just got it (that ability) and now has two attacks with his bite.